Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace

[Joemo]

What are you on about?

 

[Litch]

What's the racial? Black players don't have natural ability?

Nope. It's unwritten about racial stereotypes made about black players. Power, pace and aggression but seen has lazy, bad attitude, poor trainers.....I would argue it's an opinion held by many supporters and certainly one held by Big Ron....only difference he got caught. Half the stuff wrote about Zaha I know is crap. He bought up in a traditional African Christian family with really good values and work ethic. Yes, he may own a Lamborghini but who wouldn't if you earned 50k a week. Like I said, the issues wrote about him is attributable to many young players learning the game and equally to playing in a position which is known for being inconsistent.
He was just DM's scape goat and Yes sent on loan by LVG. Clearly if your a winger but can't play left or right back, your not gonna fit in his system...

 

[Kostur]

Yes, still the institutional racial stereotypes held about some about black players than their white peers. These go back as far as the 70's and is absolute nonsense. Many of these allegations could be made of Powell but it doesn't make the same column inches......

Powell's getting plenty of shit in his thread about being 'lazy in the training' and it's being pointed out that he's dumb because he was drink driving.

You're really making shit up right now.

And no, he wasn't a scapegoat at any point, he was sent on a loan by Moyes, was sent on loan by LVG, he's failed to cement his spot at Cardiff City and he's not setting the world alight in fecking Crystal Palace which is the club he came from.

 

[Litch]

He's getting plenty of shit in his thread about being 'lazy in the training' and it's being pointed out that he's dumb because he was drink driving.

You're really making shit up right now.

And no, he wasn't a scapegoat at any point, he was sent on a loan by Moyes, was sent on loan by LVG, he's failed to cement his spot at Cardiff City and he's not setting the world alight in fecking Crystal Palace which is the club he came from.

Hardly on the same level...I feel was made a scapegoat. He never had a chance under DM. Cardiff was a piss poor team, new manager and a crazy chairman. Do you think that's the kind of sensible place for Zaha and a good fit for a player of his type? Who is setting the world alight for any of the teams that have come up? He's not fecking superman. Played well yesterday against spurs.

Also, where would he play in LVG's system. Like I said, the only reason young and Tony are playing is because with our injuries, they can play at the back.

 

[Ekeke]

Is at his level now. Gap between him and Bolasie is miniscule.

While this is true, Bolasie has been very good this season and clearly deserves a chance at a better club. So this isnt their level at all

 

[Robbie Boy]

Is at his level now. Gap between him and Bolasie is miniscule.

I think Bolaise is better personally.

 

[Red Dreams]

I still think Zaha will make it here.

 

[Devil may care]

Can Palace afford to buy him?

 

[Kostur]

Hardly on the same level...I feel was made a scapegoat. He never had a chance under DM. Cardiff was a piss poor team, new manager and a crazy chairman. Do you think that's the kind of sensible place for Zaha and a good fit for a player of his type? Who is setting the world alight for any of the teams that have come up? He's not fecking superman. Played well yesterday against spurs.

Also, where would he play in LVG's system. Like I said, the only reason young and Tony are playing is because with our injuries, they can play at the back.

Cardiff was poor team with United friendly manager yet he still couldn't make it into starting eleven. What is a 'player of his type'? Winger? Cardiff was perfect for him then, iirc they played with two wingers. It's not how he plays against certain teams for me, it's how much he plays for CP. He's managed to play for the full time in just fourth match for them, one of which was in Mickey Mouse Cup, untill yesterday it was 7 'matches' ( 364 minutes ) and one goal and one assist for them so he hasn't been able to get into the starting XI for CP. Let's hope, obviously, that it changed yesterday and now he'll be a regular for them.

Where would he play in LVG's system? We've played 4 or 5 matches with 4141 formation with Adnan and ADM on the wings, neither of which looked like a world beater so it's not that Zaha wouldn't be able to snatch their spot. Here's his problem though, he wasn't able to stand his ground against Young, Valencia and Adnan last season, he wasn't able to get into LVG's consideration during this pre-season and it's not like he's the first name on the sheet for CP.

And yea, if you really want to continue with your silly 'racism' rhetoric, then Powell may as well be getting less shit ( if you insist on such statement ) than Zaha because he's still two years younger.

 

[stu_1992]

Yes, still the institutional racial stereotypes held about some about black players than their white peers. These go back as far as the 70's and is absolute nonsense. Many of these allegations could be made of Powell but it doesn't make the same column inches......

I don't it has any thing to do with racial stereotypes if I'm honest. Take your Powell comparison, he gets a lot of criticism here for being lazy mainly because Sir Alex suggested it in his book. He also didn't paint himself in the best light with the drink driving stuff. The only reason it's not highlighted in the papers/media as much is simply because Zaha is a higher reputation player than Powell. He cost up to £15 million (depending on where you read)from a Championship side, compared to the £4 million or so for Powell from a League 2 side. Zaha is slightly older and has an England cap, he's expectations for now are higher and that's where the criticism is from.

 

[matherto]

Nope. It's unwritten about racial stereotypes made about black players. Power, pace and aggression but seen has lazy, bad attitude, poor trainers.....I would argue it's an opinion held by many supporters and certainly one held by Big Ron....only difference he got caught. Half the stuff wrote about Zaha I know is crap. He bought up in a traditional African Christian family with really good values and work ethic. Yes, he may own a Lamborghini but who wouldn't if you earned 50k a week. Like I said, the issues wrote about him is attributable to many young players learning the game and equally to playing in a position which is known for being inconsistent.
He was just DM's scape goat and Yes sent on loan by LVG. Clearly if your a winger but can't play left or right back, your not gonna fit in his system...

Now who's stereotyping?

Unless you directly know his family and himself then you have no idea how he was brought up or how he responded to how he was raised.

 

[Ekeke]

Zaha also starred in the playoffs gaining Palace promotion to the premier league

 

[FromTheBench]

Is at his level now. Gap between him and Bolasie is miniscule.

Bale should have been now playing at some relegation fighting team by those standards.

 

[limerickcitykid]

izzit it cuz hes black?

 

[Acole9]

I think Bolaise is better personally.

So do I. If he scored more goals he'd playing for a better club than Palace that's for sure.

 

[lem8sh]

While this is true, Bolasie has been very good this season and clearly deserves a chance at a better club. So this isnt their level at all

I think Zaha has the ability to play for a better club too but never ever a top club he's just not or never will be at that level.

 

[Ekeke]

I think Zaha has the ability to play for a better club too but never ever a top club he's just not or never will be at that level.

Probably. But you never know.

Some players have something that as a young player, a club likes the look of and signs them. Then it turns out they dont have enough to their game and need to move on. Then when they have matured to 27-28, they're playing among the best of their position in the league and can have another crack at one of the better clubs

Zaha may be one of those

 

[Raoul]

Its called a football brain. He has shown little aptitude for improvement, so its quite likely he may not have been blessed with one.

 

[Kag]

He tries to play with a style he simply doesn't have the natural talent to master. I thought that as soon as I seen him play; basically Danny Welbeck trying to play like he's Ronaldo for the day. It wouldn't work, and more often than not it doesn't work that much for Zaha either. Certainly not at this level anyway.

 

[Speak]

He tries to play with a style he simply doesn't have the natural talent to master. I thought that as soon as I seen him play; basically Danny Welbeck trying to play like he's Ronaldo for the day. It wouldn't work, and more often than not it doesn't work that much for Zaha either. Certainly not at this level anyway.

So true.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Performance vs Spurs

Spoiler

 

[NinjaFletch]

I find it ridiculous he's being written off because Moyes didn't like him (if anything that should be a plus point) and a failed loan at Cardiff.

He's doing well enough at Palace, not setting the world alight, obviously, but its not discouraging.

That his talented there is no doubt, whether he will get the guidance (and more importantly whether he will heed it) to hone that and become more than just an average premier league winger is less certain but thats true of any youngster that shows promise and shouldn't be used as a stick to beat him with.

 

[Dyslexic Untied]

I was at the Spurs game yesterday. Although Zaha was ok, I thought Bolasie was better. The latter btw had an insane Berba vs West Ham type move on Eriksen. Zaha was subbed off for Pudgeon who was ver lively when he came on with one shot on the underside of the cross bar, one disallowed goal and generally good play too.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I was at the Spurs game yesterday. Although Zaha was ok, I thought Bolasie was better. The latter btw had an insane Berba vs West Ham type move on Eriksen. Zaha was subbed off for Pudgeon who was ver lively when he came on with one shot on the underside of the cross bar, one disallowed goal and generally good play too.

Oh just saw the Bolasie move, brilliant that is.

 

[Dyslexic Untied]

Yeah it is amazing. Could easily have been an assist too. @limerickcitykid

 

[Striker10]

He has great ability. Yes he's raw but creative players take more risks. On his day he will be hard to defend against and as for intelligence hes might be too smart for his own good at Palace. He needs to grow up a bit and mature and hopefully he can do that. Attitude aside, he's been unlucky in the sense that Sir Alex bought him. He's not had a run of games and we don't have many with his imagination (esp with Nani being on loan) at the club. Of course some want us to buy Reus or whoever, but we'll have to see how things develop.

 

[Paolo Di Canio]

Just wondering how much we could get for our loanees in the summer if we sell them all

Zaha maybe 5 or 6 million
Chicharito hopefully 20 million for a team needing a striker
Nani hopefully 15 million cause of the size of his contract
Cleverley about 10-12 million
Michael Keane maybe 2 million
Nick Powell maybe 2 million
Henriquez hopefully 6 million

Possibley a max of 60 million in transfer fees and a few million in wages

 

[Speak]

Just wondering how much we could get for our loanees in the summer if we sell them all

Zaha maybe 5 or 6 million
Chicharito hopefully 20 million for a team needing a striker
Nani hopefully 15 million cause of the size of his contract
Cleverley about 10-12 million
Michael Keane maybe 2 million
Nick Powell maybe 2 million
Henriquez hopefully 6 million

Possibley a max of 60 million in transfer fees and a few million in wages

Very optimistic there.

Edit: Yeah, Cleverley's free in the summer.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Just wondering how much we could get for our loanees in the summer if we sell them all

Zaha maybe 5 or 6 million
Chicharito hopefully 20 million for a team needing a striker
Nani hopefully 15 million cause of the size of his contract
Cleverley about 10-12 million
Michael Keane maybe 2 million
Nick Powell maybe 2 million
Henriquez hopefully 6 million

Possibley a max of 60 million in transfer fees and a few million in wages

Cleverley's contract runs out so we'll get nothing and Henriquez reportedly has a 1.5m euro buy option.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

We'd have to recall Cleverley and sell in January if we want anything for him. He's a free agent in the summer.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Good performance, I reckon he is a confidence player, give him a run of matches, play him, and he'll perform eventually. Lucas Andersen, he got so much confidence from FdB and now it's hard to think of him out of the team, some players on low confidence just need it, same with Fellaini and the same thing that Nani was struggling with. I hope he gets a fair chance at Palace, if he doesnt grab it, then we should be worried.

On the other hand, I'm not sure he is the player LVG is looking for, in possession based football, I dont think you'll get the most out of him.

 

[Devil may care]

Just wondering how much we could get for our loanees in the summer if we sell them all

Zaha maybe 5 or 6 million
Chicharito hopefully 20 million for a team needing a striker
Nani hopefully 15 million cause of the size of his contract
Cleverley about 10-12 million
Michael Keane maybe 2 million
Nick Powell maybe 2 million
Henriquez hopefully 6 million

Possibley a max of 60 million in transfer fees and a few million in wages

Hernandez game is too limited to get that much for him IMO. If we get a really decent sum for a player it will be Nani.

 

[Ekeke]

Just wondering how much we could get for our loanees in the summer if we sell them all

Zaha maybe 5 or 6 million
Chicharito hopefully 20 million for a team needing a striker
Nani hopefully 15 million cause of the size of his contract
Cleverley about 10-12 million
Michael Keane maybe 2 million
Nick Powell maybe 2 million
Henriquez hopefully 6 million

Possibley a max of 60 million in transfer fees and a few million in wages

No chance

Half all those fees except for Nani and 2/3 for Hernandez

 

[JohnnyLaw]

He has great ability. Yes he's raw but creative players take more risks. On his day he will be hard to defend against and as for intelligence hes might be too smart for his own good at Palace. He needs to grow up a bit and mature and hopefully he can do that. Attitude aside, he's been unlucky in the sense that Sir Alex bought him. He's not had a run of games and we don't have many with his imagination (esp with Nani being on loan) at the club. Of course some want us to buy Reus or whoever, but we'll have to see how things develop.

Getting Reus doesn't necessarily affect Zahas' future here. Reus could fit in a formation with wingers, but he could also fit in a team without wingers as a striker or behind the strikers in the role that Rooney's playing. If we move to a formation with wingers we'll need depth in those areas which Zaha could help fill. If we stick with the diamond or the 5-3-2 formation that doesn't exclude Reus but it would probably spell the end for Zaha's time as a United player wether Reus joins or not. I do think that his ability to create chances could have been beneficial to have as we've lacked that in some games but it was probably the best thing for all parties that he went on loan again.

Based on his performances for Palace this season it seems like he's becoming more consistent which is a good sign. He really needs to work on his final ball which insn't good enough yet.

 

[SirBobbysCombover]

izzit it cuz hes black?

Muzzy Izzit, two season wonder, definitely white.

 

[Litch]

Cardiff was poor team with United friendly manager yet he still couldn't make it into starting eleven. What is a 'player of his type'? Winger? Cardiff was perfect for him then, iirc they played with two wingers. It's not how he plays against certain teams for me, it's how much he plays for CP. He's managed to play for the full time in just fourth match for them, one of which was in Mickey Mouse Cup, untill yesterday it was 7 'matches' ( 364 minutes ) and one goal and one assist for them so he hasn't been able to get into the starting XI for CP. Let's hope, obviously, that it changed yesterday and now he'll be a regular for them.

Where would he play in LVG's system? We've played 4 or 5 matches with 4141 formation with Adnan and ADM on the wings, neither of which looked like a world beater so it's not that Zaha wouldn't be able to snatch their spot. Here's his problem though, he wasn't able to stand his ground against Young, Valencia and Adnan last season, he wasn't able to get into LVG's consideration during this pre-season and it's not like he's the first name on the sheet for CP.

And yea, if you really want to continue with your silly 'racism' rhetoric, then Powell may as well be getting less shit ( if you insist on such statement ) than Zaha because he's still two years younger.

Absolute nonsense. Surely even you could see Cardiff was a poor choice for any young player to go on loan not to mention at that stage of the season. Utd friendly manager...more nonsense cause I'm sure Ole was more interested in saving his job than Zaha's game time. Type of player....again even you can see he's more of a luxury player and not the 'type' Cardiff needed again at that time of the season. Never quite understood why we sent players on loan to struggling teams with the expectation that they are going to look good amongst average players at best. It's no barometer.....

Zaha pre-season played as a striker and hasn't had a chance in any of LVG systems in PL. Not sure there's anything silly about Racism and it's current and nothing rhetoric. Sadly it does exist and there's been many high profile cases that prove it. I've seen the same crap wrote about black players for 30 years, from Laurie Cunningham to Mark Walters. I heard monkey noises at John Barnes in a England shirt. Not saying he is or isn't any of those, just know it's something that's attributed to black players for a very long time. Maybe black players are more accepted in Polish football eh?

 

[Kostur]

Absolute nonsense. Surely even you could see Cardiff was a poor choice for any young player to go on loan not to mention at that stage of the season. Utd friendly manager...more nonsense cause I'm sure Ole was more interested in saving his job than Zaha's game time. Type of player....again even you can see he's more of a luxury player and not the 'type' Cardiff needed again at that time of the season. Never quite understood why we sent players on loan to struggling teams with the expectation that they are going to look good amongst average players at best. It's no barometer.....

Zaha pre-season played as a striker and hasn't had a chance in any of LVG systems in PL. Not sure there's anything silly about Racism and it's current and nothing rhetoric. Sadly it does exist and there's been many high profile cases that prove it. I've seen the same crap wrote about black players for 30 years, from Laurie Cunningham to Mark Walters. I heard monkey noises at John Barnes in a England shirt. Not saying he is or isn't any of those, just know it's something that's attributed to black players for a very long time. Maybe black players are more accepted in Polish football eh?

What the actual feck ?

And yea, we should start sending our players to Barcelona, RM and other top teams. Oh wait, they probably don't need them. Where do you expect to send our youngsters if not to clubs where they play 'amongst average players'? If they were good enough not to play 'amongst average players' then we wouldn't have to send them on loans. If they can't look good 'amongst average players' then they won't be world beaters here, their averageness will be masked by our starting XI superiority if we insist on playing them despite being sub-par.

And stop trying to defend Zaha's inability ( due to training, working ethic, working regime, lack of necessary attributes, whatever ) to get into first teams of: Cardiff, Manchester United, Crystal Palace with his skin colour. And no, he's not getting more stick than Powell due to his skin colour either. It's borderline idiotic.

 

[Litch]

Now who's stereotyping?

Unless you directly know his family and himself then you have no idea how he was brought up or how he responded to how he was raised.

Where's the stereotype? I'm stating a fact. He's African and his family have good ethnics and values. You obviously don't understand the meaning of stereotypes. If you understood African communities, those are certainly not stereotypes.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Absolute nonsense. Surely even you could see Cardiff was a poor choice for any young player to go on loan not to mention at that stage of the season. Utd friendly manager...more nonsense cause I'm sure Ole was more interested in saving his job than Zaha's game time. Type of player....again even you can see he's more of a luxury player and not the 'type' Cardiff needed again at that time of the season. Never quite understood why we sent players on loan to struggling teams with the expectation that they are going to look good amongst average players at best. It's no barometer.....

Zaha pre-season played as a striker and hasn't had a chance in any of LVG systems in PL. Not sure there's anything silly about Racism and it's current and nothing rhetoric. Sadly it does exist and there's been many high profile cases that prove it. I've seen the same crap wrote about black players for 30 years, from Laurie Cunningham to Mark Walters. I heard monkey noises at John Barnes in a England shirt. Not saying he is or isn't any of those, just know it's something that's attributed to black players for a very long time. Maybe black players are more accepted in Polish football eh?

So you made a racist remark about Poles to prove your point about racism in Poland?
Talking about double standards...

 

[Litch]

What the actual feck ?

Question. You talk about my comments about racism in football being rhetoric. What's your understanding of it? Enlighten me......