The system hasn't stopped the other wingers getting on the pitch.
Kill Moyes, Sack van Gaal, Sell Giggs, Make Zaha captain.
Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace
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Kill Moyes, Sack van Gaal, Sell Giggs, Make Zaha captain.
What!!!!!! Your view of him is your opinion but the idea that he was the best player in Champ is completely ridiculous. He would the best player of the league, MOTM in the play-offs. Did you see him play against us a couple of seasons ago?
I'm convinced you are Zaha
What like the ones with international WC experience. Oh, the same ones that have prem medals and played in CL finals....those ones?
He played very well in the 2nd leg of the play off semi final against Brighton. And I do remember him playing well against us at Old Trafford when Palace beat us, but that doesn't mean that he's potentially United quality.
He didn't have a particularly great season at Palace and showed no real consistently in a far inferior league.
Didn't he play some games as a striker for the England youth teams, if anything he should be the winger with an advantage in this new formation.
Yup, the same wingers that have been utter fecking gash for past two years.
God this clubs so sh!t, it accommodates crap players and pays them 80k a week for years. Its a complete surprise how we won fecking anything for the last 20 years.
Whats also amazing is how these players end up with international caps and go to WC. Maybe those managers are fecking crap too....
For all his deficiencies or whatnot Zaha is still young(and english), has a long contract and with a decent loan his resale value would be okay at least.
Get your boots Kostur, they are giving away 80k a week at OT. Just turn up mate.
You seem to have missed the point. You're trying to play 'more experience, WC, premiership medals' card which is idiotic given form of Nani, Young and Valencia over last two seasons. They have been utter shit. You can try arguing with that all you want but it is what it is.
And on top of that, Zaha can't steal a place from either of those players which is even more sad. Your sarcasm doesn't really make sense unless you're living in a different dimension where Young, Nani and Valencia have all performed over the course of last two seasons.
He has and played centrally a bit for Cardiff too I believe. The system can not be an excuse for him not playing yet when we have seen Young and Nani up front, Young at wingback, Lingard as CM and Kagawa as the deep lying midfielder.
Not bringing your boots then?
Ok. To me its all relative. No one has the monopoly of football knowledge and I trust those closer to the club than your distant view from your armchair. You look at the injuries that all those players have had over the last 2 seasons and its made an significant dent in their pitch time. You cant blame players for being injured. Last season represents a black hole for 99% of the club from top to bottom. You can board brush any judgement of all players in that way.
Unless your related to LVG, we can only second guess the rationale for his reasoning he's not played. If Zaha is played or not, sold or not, goes on loan or not, I have no preference. What I do feel passionate about is the idea that people are prepared to be negative about a kid that wanted to play here, and it appears supporters haven't got the patience to give a player of a team that they so call support a chance. Just started to read the same stuff about Shaw.
You like others should send your CV for a job on LVG coaching team based on your opinion of a player thats kicked a ball a couple of times for the first team, and was sent on a loan move that appeared almost certain to fail....
So you're feeling passionate about people who are 'second guessing' why Zaha's not playing ?
If the kid wanted to play here as you put it, he'd have spat his lungs out to impress. He's been sent on loan to Cardiff, to a United-friendly manager who's managed our reserves and youth before and done fantastic job with them yet poor Zaha couldn't step it up there. You've had English U21 coach complaining about his attitude, you've had Holloway complaining about his attitude, Ole complaining about his attitude ( towards training ). We've heard stories about him being late for reserves game for us, most recent one highlighted that he's a lazy cnut again. All this doesn't sound like a pursuit of a chance to play for the best team in England.
As a nice comparison look at Bebe. Sent to Pacos who were bound to get relegated and Bebe single-handedly kept them up. Easier league ? Yes, but at the same time we're to expect more from Zaha, right ? He joined Cardiff and couldn't even break into first squad despite their options being absolute shit. Now Bebe stepped it up and went to Benfica, he's made some progress. What has Zaha done ? He somehow managed not to get played in the two matches where everybody was given a chance to play, Tom Cleverley was made a captain and Jonhstone and Amos both played today. Miracles happen here yet he couldn't break into the squad.
When on top of that you add that cringeworthy instagram photo about manager believing in him which was meant to hit Moyes and then him on a twitter discarding the gossip about him shagging Moyes' daughter, you've got a nice picture of a player who's lazy, got shit attitude and on top of that seems to be incredibly thick. I'm afraid that he'll go down the Morrison route, talent's there, potential's there but the attitude is just as shit as it gets.
You see, I don't have to send my CV to LVG, nor do I have to send them some kind of a report about a player. He was already evaluated by Ole, Holloway, Moyes and now it seems that the same fate awaits him from LVG's side. In the end, I can be an armchair manager, fan, you call it, but I draw some very basic conclusions given. Zaha didn't come here from Liverpool, City or some other hostile club so that he'd have a fixed opinion of a cnut. He came here after impressive year in Championship and somehow managed to feck it up. He has made the image of himself. As some people here have said, he probably thinks he's already made it because he's here. Well not really.
Mind you that I'd love to be proven wrong, I'd love if he stepped it up and became something that Januzaj became last season. I just don't see it happening.
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So you're saying that Young, Nani and Valencia have not been crap in the past two seasons?
Van Gaal on Zaha:
Looks like he'll get his chance but surely there won't be special treatment for him from a manager.
He needs to give a serious reason that he is a player for the future... and that may be difficult.
He needs to give a serious reason that he is a player for the future... and that may be difficult.
Can't understand the hate from him on here, he's a talented fecker.
The hate! He's under achieved & is English, thats all that is required from sections of our fan base? Zaha could become a very effective & entertaining player, has all the attributes. He's got the best manager possible to bring him through if he shows the right attitude.
It does. It says you wouldn't be a good manager ;-)
I doubt anyone hates him, just nobody really cares about him. He's currently a nobody and nowhere near being our most talented youngster anyways. By all accounts, he also has a shite attitude and doesn't have the work rate. Talent wise he's not really that great, or at least never seemed like it. Could potentially become a good winger but he's not got a great touch, his dribbling is decent but again, he seems clumsy on the ball, his passing looks decent at best. He's fast, but other then that, there's nothing that really sticks out. Considering he couldn't be arsed to put in the effort and force himself in the Cardiff starting 11, I get the feeling Van Gaal won't be a huge fan of him.
He really isn't that good. I can see him going from mid table clubs showing the odd flash of brilliance but mainly filled with inconsistency.
When you look at the likes of Gotze, Hazard, Pogba, Isco, Rodriguez were all better in their teenage years all matured and worked hard and now are quality players.
When you look at the likes of Gotze, Hazard, Pogba, Isco, Rodriguez were all better in their teenage years all matured and worked hard and now are quality players.
He's really not that good. People think he's talented because he'd does stepovers and so they think of when ronaldo was here.
Spat his lungs out (?) Just running around is hardly a barometer of any players ability or wanting to be here. Tevez ran around at lot, and then legged it to City.
To use your argument, why would a utd friendly coach at his first club, fighting to stay in the Prem sign him if he didn't rate him? Whatever people thought bout him, any rationale person could see Cardiff loan move was doomed to fail. Typically and yet again, wheres the proof- any quotes from England manager. Holloway the football genius who comes out with all sorts of general crap, but there is a quote. He says “There’s no doubt that Wilfred has got tremendous talent on the field of play,” he told the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast show. “People have mentioned things about his attitude, though, and there’s a question mark there? So do you want to cherry pick 'the attitude' or 'the tremendous talent' bit if your going to quote Holloway? Who are these 'people' anyway?
You heard stories? Who from Journo's. These the same that said CR was coming back last year? Whats funny is its like no players ever been late before? Or been fined before? The factual story is he got lost for his first training session, which is pretty stupid, like turning up late the first day of your new job. The journo's just jumped on it.
Comparison...Bebe? The lad when at Besiktas was photographed outside an Istanbul nightclub in the early hours ahead of Monday’s derby against Galatasaray? Keep cherry picking your argument.
Revelation, player post something on social media website. Big deal. Unfortunately, not one word you said can be substantiated. Rumours about Zaha and DM's daughter. Did this take place on the moon, cause wouldn't someone have spotted them. Footballer with Man Utd Managers daughter??? No pics?? What I recon is she was seen with a black guy that people assumed was Zaha. Some journo would have thought he had a scoop lol
There not one single piece of proof aside from 'cat stuck in a tree' type journalism. Your picture is based on stereotypical crap. I love your pools of football knowledge that you quote from. Ole (aside from utd Leg) - stunk out the place at Cardiff, Holloway -have you seen his interviews on MOTD, and Moyes, Really, where do I start?
Like I said, if LVG think he's worth a punt or not, I'm not bothered but I respect his judgement more than the 3 amigos you quote from. What I do struggle with is this idea that it must be true cause its in the papers or on a social media site. If your gonna take such a strong stance basing it on fact, at least back it up with proof. His ability and whether he's good enough is another debate like many on here....
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LvG about Zaha said:
Read the whole story here:
http://www.manutd.com/en/Tour-2014/...=twitter&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=ManUtd#
Me thinks he could be an asset as a striker in a 3-5-2.
Holloway: 'Wilf has only one person to blame for the fact that his only start in the famous red shirt so far was a Capital Cup tie against Norwich in October: Himself. He hasn’t been a regular in the United team simply because he hasn’t done what his manager has demanded from him. [...] And, again, it’s all about attitude. Or lack of attitude.'
Of course I'm going to 'cherry-pick' the attitude. It doesn't matter what talent he has, with shit attitude he won't be able to fulfill it and here lies his problem. You're really trying to downplay such things as him being late for reserves game which is silly, you don't expect being late for reserves game from a nobody-player who's trying to break into first squad. You break into it by having great games in either u-21 games or reserves, you don't break into it by being late for one.
As for Bebe, it's your who's cherry picking. Sending him to Turkey was a shit loan, he was sent to a foreign country where language must've been a problem for him. Zaha was sent to Cardiff City, EPL club. Add to that that Bebe had a horrible leg injury during his Besiktas times which ruled him out for half a year iirc. When we sent him to Portugal, he started showing improving signs, first at Rio Ave and then he's had fantastic season at Pacos. That's what I'm talking about when I'm saying that player's stepping up his game. Cardiff wasn't a 'loan doomed to fail', it actually was a good chance to make a name for himself and to help them avoid relegation just like Bebe's done that at Pacos.
You obviously didn't understand my point about twitter and instagram too. I'll reiterate then. Trying to attack Moyes for not playing him was dumb. Incredibly dumb. He's been given shit for it by the fans and if I recall correctly, removed the photo. Then for some idiotic reason he thought it would be wise to deny those idiotic rumours ( there was nothing between those two, everybody knows ), which in my eyes made him look stupid and pretty desperate. He shouldn't give a shit about those rumours. If every player was reacting like this then you'd have Robin posting things as 'but she really didn't say no' on facebook. Social media's doing Zaha no good.
It's fine if you take Holloway's and Ole's opinions about his attitude problems, you can stay in your denial, I won't try to force any opinion on you. Those are managers who worked with him and obviously have a clue or two about him but let's play it down for the sake of Zaha being the victim here. Daily reminder that he's had a bust up with Morrison in the U21 squad which costed him place too as far as I'm aware but since Ravel's been a prick himself, I wouldn't probably look much into it.
One thing's to see. Where and if LVG will play him. If he will then pretty much all the past and histories concering Zaha won't matter from now on.
Woah you guys need to cool it... Lets see him play a game for United under LVG before we pass judgement on him.
This is what I posted in another thread on Zaha.
Doesn't look too good for Zaha, still think he has the potential to make it here. You don't just blow 15 mil on a very promising youngster and discard him without giving him a proper chance in the first team. Whether he has worked hard to deserve it or not is another matter. Heck even Bebe got a few starts.... What I am saying is we should see how he performs on the field for us before judging his actions on a training field which we don't know much about. Expect him to play against Inter in the second half instead of Lingard or preferably Nani. There is going to be immense pressure on him though as he probably has the most to prove in the squad alongside Cleverley and look how that turned out for him against Roma.
This is what I posted in another thread on Zaha.
Doesn't look too good for Zaha, still think he has the potential to make it here. You don't just blow 15 mil on a very promising youngster and discard him without giving him a proper chance in the first team. Whether he has worked hard to deserve it or not is another matter. Heck even Bebe got a few starts.... What I am saying is we should see how he performs on the field for us before judging his actions on a training field which we don't know much about. Expect him to play against Inter in the second half instead of Lingard or preferably Nani. There is going to be immense pressure on him though as he probably has the most to prove in the squad alongside Cleverley and look how that turned out for him against Roma.
If he doesn't make it, would he be one of our most disappointing transfers in recent memory?
Loads of talent, but awful attitude, and barely played for us for £15m
Loads of talent, but awful attitude, and barely played for us for £15m
I never understood why people label him as having a lot of talent. Ravel Morrison is someone who has a lot of talent. The ball sticks to his feet, can use both feet, can strike the ball well, can dribble past players, and has moments of magic. Zaha isn't like that. He's a player with quick feet, pace, and power. The technical side of his game isn't great at all.
Personally I feel a lot of posters (not just on Redcafe) are a bit desperate for him to be the next Ronaldo.
@Rednotdead
Remember when you said:
I suggested perhaps the previous coaching regime might not have been as strong as you thought and they might have got a thing or two wrong. You disagreed, it looks as though Louis van Gaal disagrees with your opinion too.
Louis van Gaal has some information for you.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-does-have-a-future-at-Manchester-United.html
Do you accept his attitude and performance in training is acceptable?
Remember when you said:
I suggested perhaps the previous coaching regime might not have been as strong as you thought and they might have got a thing or two wrong. You disagreed, it looks as though Louis van Gaal disagrees with your opinion too.
Louis van Gaal has some information for you.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-does-have-a-future-at-Manchester-United.html
Do you accept his attitude and performance in training is acceptable?
No offence man, but the conclusion's that were made on Zaha not gettin a single minute on the pitch were universal, hence why reporters asked him about Zaha's no-show again.
Van Gaal even said: "maybe the next time I can use Zaha" - he's not guaranteeing him playing time, which tells its own story.
Its a mystery why he's not been given any playing time - considering how poor Nani's been in both matches..
That's the another things what annoys me. How does people know he have a shite attitude or doesn't have the world rate? Unless people know him personally or watch him train regularly how can they comment on that?
I don't think you've ever seen him play at all. Technically Zaha as a unique style to his game, he's nothing like a pacey and power footballer you have described.
Doing step overs doesn't make one as good as Ronaldo.
It's a bit more than that. He's a very good dribbler overall. He wasn't just spamming the tricks before he signed for United. At Palace, he was rinsing full backs for fun. His trickery was very effective. His end product looked solid too. Had a decent cross on him, and his final ball wasn't bad for such a young player. He's definitely talented. I don't think he'll ever be World Class, even if he applied himself, but he's certainly got enough about him, talent-wise, to be a very good player.
Like you say his major plus is his quick feet, which is why the ball seems to always favour him in the 50-50 ricochets. It's not a clean dribble at all.
If it was case of him consistently beating a full back with ease and being youthfully naive enough to try to beat him again two more times before crossing, I could understand. But his dribbling and touch isn't consistently good and he's not beating people with ease consistently. He doesn't show close control, and the physical advantage he had in the Championship (which is mostly made up of old slow full backs and very young inexperienced full backs) isn't there to the same degree.
The technical parts of his game are behind Ince and Redmond, let alone Sterling and players from other countries. He barely appears to have full control of ball half the time. And he didn't carry Crystal Palace. He had some good games, and a couple of very good games in the play-offs (which is like his version of Fabio's famous Champions League final) but for much of the same season he was poor, and a lot of what he did (even the good bits) looked scrappy, and as if it wouldn't come off at a higher level.
I can see him ending up closer to Yannick Bolasie's level than Cristiano Ronaldo's.
Talent isn't the issue lads but it's clear that if the stories about poor attitude are true then LVG will send him packing.
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