Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace

[Genius Me!]

I don't get the big deal with the fee and the fact that he's at a championship team. Firstly Walcott was signed for a low fee that rose to £12m. Chamberlain was signed for £12m rising to £15m so this deal is quite comparable to both of those.

Then we also take into consideration the amount of players that have been snared up from lesser leagues. Smalling a prime example, Kagawa for Dortmund and there's countless others who I can't think of right now.

So I don't think we should be concerned about the fee or the fact that he's a championship player, it's not as if we've signed him off of the back of his performance against us, the club have had a lot of time to do their research and scout him properly. He might not have been our top target but there's no reason to suggest that we wouldn't have still gone for him had we signed Hazard or Moura.

And what's this bullshit about lazy signings, Powell a lazy signing? What a load, how is he a lazy signing? We take punts on players, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. That doesn't make them lazy signings.

 

[Tomuś]

And Welbeck.

It's my main criticm of his. He's trying all these great moves and flicks, and the ideas are all there, yet he never seems fully in control of what he's doing.

Welbeck's different imo. He's got tremendous technique. it's just that clumsy looking style, mainly due to his abnormally long legs, that makes it look weaker.

 

[Chrisjn]

Welbeck's different imo. He's got tremendous technique. it's just that clumsy looking style, mainly due to his abnormally long legs, that makes it look weaker.

Yes, and the fact that more often than not when trying something he will give away possession. He's young though.

 

[Will Absolute]

Maybe the 'lazy signing' accusation is a bit lazy. I'd like us to do a bit more business in La Liga though. It's comparable in standard to the Prem so quality wouldn't be a worry.

 

[Tomuś]

Yes, and the fact that more often than not when trying something he will give away possession. He's young though.

I certainly wouldn't say more often than not. His issues are finishing and decision making (at times). He was a demon against Liverpool in the first half, both this season and the previous one in terms of keeping the ball under pressure while using skill.

I've never had problems with his ball retention fwiw.

 

[Deleted 20801]

Zaha is black - which means likely earlier maturation. Probably not a big factor, but should be taken into account

 

[Will Absolute]

Your certainly trumps my statistical analysis, Hec.

 

[Spoony]

Zaha is black.

 

[moses]

Your certainly trumps my statistical analysis, Hec.

Your statisical analyis of the eariler maturing of black footballers. I think I missed that. Link?

 

[Top]

 

[The Neviller]

Your statisical analyis of the eariler maturing of black footballers. I think I missed that. Link?

It's cause they're black, innit?

Zup Zup, homes.

 

[Will Absolute]

Your statisical analyis of the eariler maturing of black footballers. I think I missed that. Link?

Since I stated that I didn't have the stats, I think your question is disingenuous, moses.

I suggested in my earlier post that the question could be decided by doing such an analysis. Hectic believes that is a better argument. And that's fine by me. I have no interest in changing anybody's opinion.

 

[KM]

Your post deserves a as an argument, tbf Will.

 

[The Don]

You'd think being black would slow him down. It must be harder to run around with a massive penis dangling between your legs and his diet can't be good, what with all the fried chicken he eats. Rice an peas are okay, though.

*Incase anyone hasn't realised, I'm being ironically stereotypical*

 

[Gambit]

Zaha is black - which means likely earlier maturation. Probably not a big factor, but should be taken into account. In any case, immeasurable improvement is a big ask.

There's a certain validity to the characterization of English signings as 'lazy'. With such a huge worldwide pool of talent, should we depend on Fergie spotting a player who happens to play well against us?

and one more great big huge

 

[Gambit]

Hmm now were those stats found in Mein Kampf.

 

[JayWalker]

Gambit, where's the 28? I'm not used to this.

 

[Genius Me!]

I feel like I'm missing out on the fun so to the black man comment.

 

[Roon101]

Just my two cents on Zaha. The in-law side of my family are huge palace fans, season tickets for years etc... And they say that he is the best talent they've seen at palace, and that we will turn him into a star.

I find it quite odd reading the negativity on here from some. 10-15m is not a lot in this day and age, and if united are happy paying it then so be it. I personally like watching players who run at players and like to throw in tricks and stopovers, and im excited to see him play with likes of Rvp, Rooney, kagawa etc.

I'm sure if he was a 20 year old Brazilian called Zahadinho, and had the same YouTube videos we've all been watching, there would be a lot more excitement in this thread!

 

[Gambit]

Gambit, where's the 28? I'm not used to this.

I have evolved to a purer state.

 

[Mainoldo]

I imagine that he's making a generalisation about the age at which Zaha will have reached physical maturity based on a stereotype.

Jesse Lingard is black, and Sir Alex reckons he won't mature until about 23

He got that half white blood in him though!!

 

[Comsmit]

It just seems like a lazy criticism to me. We obviously scour the world looking for top class talents with the most recent one being your man Henriquez, we went in for Lucas, Hazard, Sanchéz and various others over the past year but none of them came off...doesn't that suggest to you we're spending a huge amount of time looking for a wide player with huge potential? It seems like you're suggesting we just got bored of looking for them and decided, "feck it, just get me that Zaha lad that the English media keep banging on about, he's supposed to be good". I don't know why anyone would think we're anything but meticulous in identifying top young talents. You don't think he's a particularly good player, fair enough, but come on...it's a little arrogant to suggest the transfer was lazy based purely on your own subjective evaluation of Ince, Zaha and whoever else.

We have an advanced scouting network sure....and it has paid dividends to a degree. I'm obviously getting a lot of stick for the "lazy signing" comment but I see it like this.....United have paid £10 million up front with a likely £5 million more in future payments. It's the potential to cost ratio I'm looking at. When you consider that Erik Lamela cost roughly £8 million, Coutinho is going to the scouse for £8.5 million, Shaquiri went to Bayern for under £10 million even Rodrigo at Benfica is proving a steal....these players are all superior in talent to Zaha. And they were available.

Zaha just seems a very safe option.... young, English, Championship level.....the negotiation with Palace was conducted very quickly, there was obviously little hardball from United....but why? Why were there no other competitors for his signature? I just don't think he is highly rated enough by other elite managers...and definitely not at the sums we have paid. The kid has played over 100 games already and his progress within those games just doesn't seem to have been rapid enough....and his stats back up that view.

Another worry is why was he bought and then loaned back? He isn't with us now to put pressure on our underperforming wide players...because he is clearly not good enough to jump into first team football with United. That leads me to believe he may be loaned to a Premier League club next season, perhaps after the initial "bedding in" period. That would probably be the best thing for his development, as he will need games...and lots of them...being 20 already he should be playing week-in-week-out. He is going to have to develop rapidly at United to start fulfilling any potential he has.

Probably won't change anyone's opinion but maybe it explains mine a little more clearly.

 

[Castia]

I think there were other clubs interested though and that's the main reason we have got a deal in place now and not the summer. Arsenal and Newcastle were definitely in for him while City and Chelsea dont really use out and out wingers do they. So at the very least we know Manchester United, Arsenal and Newcastle were interested....not bad a for a 20 year old kid.

 

[paceme]

Yeah, the safe option was buying a championship player for 15 million.

If the transfer doesn't come off it will look much worse than wasting 10 million on some Spanish kid or whoever.

 

[Brwned]

How can you say there were no other elite managers interested? The only way to judge that would be to look at the transfer stories surrounding him and there were consistent links to Arsenal. Of course, Arsene Wenger said he wasn't interested but then if you choose to believe him it means the papers didn't have a clue about who was or wasn't interested.

As for it being too "easy" a transfer - most of our transfers are sorted out very quickly with little transfer talk. Was Anderson being linked with anyone else? Was Kagawa? They were both top talents from abroad that went through very quickly. And by quickly we of course mean the amount of time they spent in the media, because really it'll have been going on for months...

It just seems a like a new spin on an age-old complaint: we don't want boring English talents, we want exotic foreign talents. When we signed Rio there were people saying that Mexes is just as good and much cheaper. Yes, we probably could have signed a similarly talented player for cheaper. That doesn't make it lazy.

 

[Gambit]

We have an advanced scouting network sure....and it has paid dividends to a degree. I'm obviously getting a lot of stick for the "lazy signing" comment but I see it like this.....United have paid £10 million up front with a likely £5 million more in future payments. It's the potential to cost ratio I'm looking at. When you consider that Erik Lamela cost roughly £8 million, Coutinho is going to the scouse for £8.5 million, Shaquiri went to Bayern for under £10 million even Rodrigo at Benfica is proving a steal....these players are all superior in talent to Zaha. And they were available.

Zaha just seems a very safe option.... young, English, Championship level.....the negotiation with Palace was conducted very quickly, there was obviously little hardball from United....but why? Why were there no other competitors for his signature? I just don't think he is highly rated enough by other elite managers...and definitely not at the sums we have paid. The kid has played over 100 games already and his progress within those games just doesn't seem to have been rapid enough....and his stats back up that view.

Another worry is why was he bought and then loaned back? He isn't with us now to put pressure on our underperforming wide players...because he is clearly not good enough to jump into first team football with United. That leads me to believe he may be loaned to a Premier League club next season, perhaps after the initial "bedding in" period. That would probably be the best thing for his development, as he will need games...and lots of them...being 20 already he should be playing week-in-week-out. He is going to have to develop rapidly at United to start fulfilling any potential he has.

Probably won't change anyone's opinion but maybe it explains mine a little more clearly.

I'm finding i need to do the same as I did earlier.......

and then one more

 

[Giggsforever]

Your statisical analyis of the eariler maturing of black footballers. I think I missed that. Link?

A link to Obafemi Martins perhaps? He started out as a 17 year old mega talent at 23 and lost his pace and ability as a 27, only 33 years old.

 

[Will Absolute]

Yeah, the safe option was buying a championship player for 15 million.

If the transfer doesn't come off it will look much worse than wasting 10 million on some Spanish kid or whoever.

Not so much safe as unadventurous. I just think it's a pity Fergie doesn't watch a bit of Spanish football on the weekend.

When's the last time we bought a player from La Liga? When he became available, I was sure we'd bid for Toure. But apparently not. Silva as well. They didn't go for huge money. Which may all be a bit nitpicky - the club probably has it's reasons.

As for Zaha, we all hope he'll be a big success - early maturer or not

 

[Brwned]

We tried to buy Silva two years in a row. Torres three years in a row. Tried to buy Villa too.

 

[Cevno]

Zaha doesn't seem to have any Spanish, German, Brazilian, French or any other exotic roots. Must be shit. We are turning into Liverpool wasting money.

I mean which good player plays in the Championship? Meh, what rubbish. SAF has turned old and Lazy not watching the Spanish and German leagues instead. Sack him and appoint Benitez. Quality Spanish mannager Yo.

Bit of a hyperbole, but meh..

 

[Striker10]

We have an advanced scouting network sure....and it has paid dividends to a degree. I'm obviously getting a lot of stick for the "lazy signing" comment but I see it like this.....United have paid £10 million up front with a likely £5 million more in future payments. It's the potential to cost ratio I'm looking at. When you consider that Erik Lamela cost roughly £8 million, Coutinho is going to the scouse for £8.5 million, Shaquiri went to Bayern for under £10 million even Rodrigo at Benfica is proving a steal....these players are all superior in talent to Zaha. And they were available.

Zaha just seems a very safe option.... young, English, Championship level.....the negotiation with Palace was conducted very quickly, there was obviously little hardball from United....but why? Why were there no other competitors for his signature? I just don't think he is highly rated enough by other elite managers...and definitely not at the sums we have paid. The kid has played over 100 games already and his progress within those games just doesn't seem to have been rapid enough....and his stats back up that view.

Another worry is why was he bought and then loaned back? He isn't with us now to put pressure on our underperforming wide players...because he is clearly not good enough to jump into first team football with United. That leads me to believe he may be loaned to a Premier League club next season, perhaps after the initial "bedding in" period. That would probably be the best thing for his development, as he will need games...and lots of them...being 20 already he should be playing week-in-week-out. He is going to have to develop rapidly at United to start fulfilling any potential he has.

Probably won't change anyone's opinion but maybe it explains mine a little more clearly.

Crystal Palace wanted to keep him so to aid negotiations we obliged. I think you've assumed too much here. He won't need to go out on loan. When you pay that much, he will be in and around the first team and then it's up to him ..

He's getting games. There's not much difference playing championship to premiership. The standard is higher but football is football. Don't over complicate something that's easy.

 

[Will Absolute]

We tried to buy Silva two years in a row. Torres three years in a row. Tried to buy Villa too.

The problem with the first two is we gave up on them just when they became available. The third we were never going to get.

I take your point though that we're not unaware of Spanish talent. But interest in a less exalted class of player might also pay dividends. Fergie not knowing who Michu was seems a little odd. (I realize he can't watch every major league around the world, but one La Liga game over the weekend would do no harm.)

 

[Gambit]

Between Will Absolutes mis-reading of genetic research and Comsmit assumptions we have some fun months ahead.

 

[Cevno]

Between Will Absolutes mis-reading of genetic research and Comsmit assumptions we have some fun months ahead.

Haha yeah. Wonder how much either has seen Zaha play too.

 

[NM]

Not so much safe as unadventurous. I just think it's a pity Fergie doesn't watch a bit of Spanish football on the weekend.

When's the last time we bought a player from La Liga? When he became available, I was sure we'd bid for Toure. But apparently not. Silva as well. They didn't go for huge money. Which may all be a bit nitpicky - the club probably has it's reasons.

As for Zaha, we all hope he'll be a big success - early maturer or not

De Gea. Two years ago.
Assertions that our scouting team/boss do not watch a particular league are ludicrous.

 

[Will Absolute]

Between Will Absolutes mis-reading of genetic research and Comsmit assumptions we have some fun months ahead.

Let it go, my friend. I know a great deal more about genetics than you do. Unless you're an Oxbridge professor in (very good) disguise.

 

[Will Absolute]

De Gea. Two years ago.
Assertions that our scouting team/boss do not watch a particular league are ludicrous.

Don't know what it is about keepers. I always forget about them.

I'm not saying we don't have La Liga scouts. And our failure to recruit from that league may be no more than coincidence.

But it's all grist to the mill of Cafe debate.

 

[CLK_FPC]

What the feck have I walked in on?

 

[Gambit]

Let it go, my friend. I know a great deal more about genetics than you do. Unless you're an Oxbridge professor in (very good) disguise.

Well for someone who knows a great more about genetic research how you got something so fundamentally wrong, mistaking the onset of puberty as opposed to the full completion of maturity in the physical and even more so in the psychological sense, I will bow down to your assumptions mein fuhrer.

 

[UnofficialDevil]