Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace

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How signing Zaha (a 20 y.o.) championship player for 15m is a "lazy signing", whichever side you're looking from? It's a big gamble, plenty of work still need to be done, and 15m is a big money for any unproven 'kid'.

It's actually the opposite of "lazy signing". The manager and scout have to do a lot more work on deciding to buy him for that money, compare to let's say buying Hazard even for 30m.
 
Isotope said:
How signing Zaha (a 20 y.o.) championship player for 15m is a "lazy signing", whichever side you're looking from? It's a big gamble, plenty of work still need to be done, and 15m is a big money for any unproven 'kid'.

It's actually the opposite of "lazy signing". The manager and scout have to do a lot more work on deciding to buy him for that money, compare to let's say buying Hazard even for 30m.
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Just the same.
 
Oh come on, Nani is reaching the stage where we won't be able to recoup much of the fee if he doesn't move soon. Considering his injuries recently maybe Fergie thinks its time to cash in and spend the money else where. Lets make it clear Fergie won't be selling if he thinks he's going to be weakening us.

Zaha looks a talent and is young enough that even with an unsuccessful spell for us we'll still be able to recoup most his fee.
 
Quinton Fortune said:
Oh come on, Nani is reaching the stage where we won't be able to recoup much of the fee if he doesn't move soon. Considering his injuries recently maybe Fergie thinks its time to cash in and spend the money else where. Lets make it clear Fergie won't be selling if he thinks he's going to be weakening us.

Zaha looks a talent and is young enough that even with an unsuccessful spell for us we'll still be able to recoup most his fee.
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It's not cut and dried we're selling but it's up to Nani. If Nani came out today saying he wants to sign, the contract will be there.
 
Colin129 said:
Still struggling to get excited about this. Felt the same way about Young & I'm still not excited about him.

I hope I'm wrong though.

I saw this story the other day:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...Nani-to-leave-Old-Trafford-in-the-summer.html

Now I appreciate that it's probably complete bullshit, but this guy is no Nani & even with potential he's years away from Nani's level.
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Only real similarities between Young and Zaha is they played out wide, are English and both Black. Young came to the club as a proven player and at the peak of his game. No one really thought he could improve his game immeasurably. That would be expected of Zaha.
 
Colin129 said:
Still struggling to get excited about this. Felt the same way about Young & I'm still not excited about him.

I hope I'm wrong though.

I saw this story the other day:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...Nani-to-leave-Old-Trafford-in-the-summer.html

Now I appreciate that it's probably complete bullshit, but this guy is no Nani & even with potential he's years away from Nani's level.
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I'm a little excited about this one, never was about Young never will be either.
 
From the newb 'derace'

'zaha video
hey, i'm just a newbie but someone should post a good zaha video -



maybe you can post it if you want, i just saw the bad quality 18second videos in the zaha thread!

cheers'
 
Nanderson said:
Wow, it's pretty clear you haven't actually watched much of Moura. I have no idea where you're getting some of this from. I haven't seen anything of Zaha bar the youtube videos, but I've seen quite a lot of Moura. He is FAR from a sure thing! He's certainly talented, but he has a very, very long way to go before he comes even close to justifying that price tag. Firstly, he wasn't "very good" at the Olympics. He was decent, but didn't even start.

Moura is NOT a technical player, where in the name of absolute feck have you got this from? For every piece of skill that comes off, he loses it ten times. Of course this is expected from a young player, but his technique is far from standout for a player of his type. His touch is erratic, and I'm being extremely generous here. His vision is nothing special, it's probably about where it should be for a winger of his age. For example, if you contrast Lucas with Neymar, there is simply no comparison in terms of technique, touch, vision, creativity, flair etc.. Now, what Lucas does have is an abundance of pace and acceleration which instantly makes him a threat, as well as good strength and very good balance. His dribbling is decent but more often than not he just kicks it ahead of himself and sprints past his opponent. Not necessarily a bad thing but he has a lot of work to do. I'm not saying Lucas is a bad prospect, but to me it's clear you've bought into the hype without actually watching him much. He's really not what he's purported to be which your post is proof of. I really don't know how you've come to the conclusion that he's some sort of technical genius, but it's far from the truth. I've watched him a lot. Hard for me to say since I haven't seen Zaha, but I'd imagine they're much closer talent wise than you'd like to think. And I wouldn't even be that confident that Moura will turn out to be the better player.
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Just a couple of things from this strange outburst. I've seen enough of Lucas over the last 2 years to form an opinion on his ability and potential. The Brasileiro has been avalaible on ESPN since May , I've caught plenty of his international performances also. How you can suggest Lucas is not a technical player is beyond me quite frankly...you simply cannot change direction like he does, at pace while dribbling the ball, and not have a good level of technical ability. His passing is technically sound and generally inventive. His assist rate in Brazil is fairly impressive and with tweaking, as in his decision making, he can become even more effective. He will learn how the European game is cuter and requires a tad more discipline.

Bringing Neymar into the equation is pointless and doesn't enhance your argument, any sound person can see his ability is ridiculous. I was comparing Lucas to Zaha as you know, and if you read my post I said that Zaha does not possess the more subtle technique, vision and passing ability of Lucas....and I don't believe that is a poor suggestion. I never suggested he was a genius or a technical master. You say his dribbling is decent, its a bit more than that.

You appear to be underrating him if anything.
 
Colin129 said:
Still struggling to get excited about this. Felt the same way about Young & I'm still not excited about him.

I hope I'm wrong though.

I saw this story the other day:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...Nani-to-leave-Old-Trafford-in-the-summer.html

Now I appreciate that it's probably complete bullshit, but this guy is no Nani & even with potential he's years away from Nani's level.
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Nani was only mentioned in one solitary line of that article, and in the headline. Typical tabloid journalism shite.
 
I once saw Lucas pick up the ball on the half way line and his first touch was so bad that it ended up back at their keeper. He'd tried knocking the ball ahead of himself to start dribbling.

He's not great technically in a sense that he does good things but looks as though he was never in full control of the situation, a criticism also leveled at Zaha too.
 
pocco said:
I once saw Lucas pick up the ball on the half way line and his first touch was so bad that it ended up back at their keeper. He'd tried knocking the ball ahead of himself to start dribbling.

He's not great technically in a sense that he does good things but looks as though he was never in full control of the situation, a criticism also leveled at Zaha too.
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And Welbeck.

It's my main criticm of his. He's trying all these great moves and flicks, and the ideas are all there, yet he never seems fully in control of what he's doing.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Thank you Brwned for being smart in a house of nutters.

Cosmit, how much of Zaha and Moura have you actually watched to come to the conclusion that they are miles apart? And please don't just lie to try and prove something we know isn't true.

I'm going to be honest and say I haven't seen much of either, but its ridiculous at this point to say either one is Worlds apart from the other.

My example was Veron and Lampard. I remember at the time people were laughing at Chelsea for signing a kid from West Ham who many thought was overrated whilst United went out and signed an Argentine many considered one of the best in the World. A few years later and it's an entirely different ball game.
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I've watched enough to form an opinion on both....I've actually seen Zaha live, and I have Palace supporting pals who have seen him on a regular basis. Lucas I've seen enough of his international games and Brasileiro has been on ESPN since May so a fair bit there. I've not suggested they are worlds apart, but Lucas is on a different level both in terms of natural ability and current progression. Nothing wrong with suggesting that.

Your comparison between Veron and Lampard doesn't have any clear distinction in this context. Veron was a big star in a successful Lazio side who had worldwide pedigree, Lampard was a talented youngster with Premiership experience and international games under his belt. Not sure where you are going with that one.

It's obvious we have our wires crossed, but if you piss over that post of mine expect a response. There is a reference to Lucas but the main body regards the concept of Zaha's transfer. I get that you don't agree as you have basically quoted other posts to try and justify your indifference. To suggest I'm idiotic and then rely on others to bail you out is a bit soft to be fair.
 
Brwned said:
It has plenty to do with Lucas Moura.
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Wires crossed by the looks, although I was responding to Neviller at the time regarding the "lazy" aspect of Zaha's transfer, so naturally I would assume all criticisms stem from that. It is a thread about Zaha so the main body of the post was addressing his transfer.

Brwned said:
I watched a lot of Lucas in the Brasileirão and he's certainly not a sure thing at £30m, nor is he a particularly impressive player from a technical point of view. I'm not sure any of his best qualities are technical to be honest. His first touch is a bit hit-and-miss though he's quite inventive, his passing's crisp and incisive but again a little hit-and-miss, his dribbling's all about his pace, low centre of gravity and powerful running...there's nothing else there really. He's got a lot of great raw qualities to work with but at the moment he's all potential. Zaha looks similar in the sense that he can pick out a pass, beat a man easily and pull off some great touches but his game's awfully unrefined.
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Yes I said he is "about as sure a thing as you can get." I also stated that I understand why United didn't match PSG's outlay, he is vastly overpriced. The thing is PSG have to pay a higher premium than clubs such as United or Barcelona....they are trying to enter the elite and like City, they have to pay more for the best talent. It is clear Ferguson was prepared to spend in excess of £20 million (a hugeamount in it's right for a teenager) on the player so he sees the massive potential as clear as day. I've watched a fair bit of him too and in comparison with Zaha his technical ability is superior, his first touch isn't bad at all. A lot of his first touch is based around creating space to run into, or creating a one-two situation with a teammate, rather than just killing the ball.

His passing ability is very good from what I've seen, he rarely gives the ball away and most of his passing is produced in the final third. His dribbling definitely requires a tune-up, he is so rapid in his acceleration he loses control of the ball in the early stages of a run....it's like he has too much horsepower.....once he has it at his feet his balance effectively shields the ball from a defender. I stand by my view that he is far ahead of Zaha in his development.

Brwned said:
What would lead you to believe it's lazy? Just because he was a hyped English talent doesn't mean there isn't genuine talent there that we should be looking at.
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I suggested earlier that primarily it wasn't difficult to acquire the player. He is young, English, plays for a Championship side and there was no confirmed competition for his signature. The fee surprised me due to these reasons. If you look at how Liverpool acquired Coutinho for £8.5 million and Tom Ince is being quoted at around the £6 million mark (I happen to think he is the more rounded player,) then the surprise is clearer. Ferguson is always parping on about value in the market so these transfers are more akin to the moneyball approach in player acquisition.

I'm not doubting Zaha has good potential, he clearly has some raw attributes and our coaching team will work on refining his game. I just sense it was a case of missing bigger and better targets, resulting in throwing a stack of money at a young English player who has been overly hyped to address a need for a flair based winger with a degree of potential. I wasn't really criticising the transfer....it is what it is....I just think it slightly lacks ambition, considering how poor our wide options have been this season. Perhaps there is more to come in that area I don't know.

I admit lazy was probably not the best word to use....perhaps enterprise is a better one.
 
Chrisjn said:
And Welbeck.

It's my main criticm of his. He's trying all these great moves and flicks, and the ideas are all there, yet he never seems fully in control of what he's doing.
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Bull. Now you guys are jus being over-critical. All players fully in control of what they are doing, they jus have a different style of play. Welbeck looks clumsey even without the ball however i would never say he's not aware of what is around him he's just not asthetic like a Zidane or Berbatov.
 
Comsmit said:
I suggested earlier that primarily it wasn't difficult to acquire the player. He is young, English, plays for a Championship side and there was no confirmed competition for his signature. The fee surprised me due to these reasons. If you look at how Liverpool acquired Coutinho for £8.5 million and Tom Ince is being quoted at around the £6 million mark (I happen to think he is the more rounded player,) then the surprise is clearer. Ferguson is always parping on about value in the market so these transfers are more akin to the moneyball approach in player acquisition.

I'm not doubting Zaha has good potential, he clearly has some raw attributes and our coaching team will work on refining his game. I just sense it was a case of missing bigger and better targets, resulting in throwing a stack of money at a young English player who has been overly hyped to address a need for a flair based winger with a degree of potential. I wasn't really criticising the transfer....it is what it is....I just think it slightly lacks ambition, considering how poor our wide options have been this season. Perhaps there is more to come in that area I don't know.

I admit lazy was probably not the best word to use....perhaps enterprise is a better one.
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It just seems like a lazy criticism to me. We obviously scour the world looking for top class talents with the most recent one being your man Henriquez, we went in for Lucas, Hazard, Sanchéz and various others over the past year but none of them came off...doesn't that suggest to you we're spending a huge amount of time looking for a wide player with huge potential? It seems like you're suggesting we just got bored of looking for them and decided, "feck it, just get me that Zaha lad that the English media keep banging on about, he's supposed to be good". I don't know why anyone would think we're anything but meticulous in identifying top young talents. You don't think he's a particularly good player, fair enough, but come on...it's a little arrogant to suggest the transfer was lazy based purely on your own subjective evaluation of Ince, Zaha and whoever else.
 
Young talent tend to be very unpredictable. Deal with it.
 
The Neviller said:
Nani was only mentioned in one solitary line of that article, and in the headline. Typical tabloid journalism shite.
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The Telegraph used to be really good for sport, but it seems to have sunk to the same level as the tabloids.

Some truly awful writing these days, that demi-god Winter is one of the prime culprits.
 
Ekeke said:
Just the same.
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I agree that we should aim better player than him; but spanking 10 (rise to 15m) isn't 'lazy'. There's still so much work to develop his potential.

Signing Powell for 4 million IS a lazy signing. So is the like of Obertan. THe fee is low enough as a gamble, that flogging them out isn't such a big deal.
 
Isotope said:
I agree that we should aim better player than him; but spanking 10 (rise to 15m) isn't 'lazy'. There's still so much work to develop his potential.

Signing Powell for 4 million IS a lazy signing. So is the like of Obertan. THe fee is low enough as a gamble, that flogging them out isn't such a big deal.
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Oh dear. Signing a player who still needs a lot of work to be put into, to become a top class player, is anything but a lazy signing. An example of a lazy signing would be spunking 80 million on Ronaldo or however many millions City go out and spend on proven players.
 
Castia said:
*resisting the urge to use a gif*
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:D

Its the truth though. I remember an old interview by Harrison (the legendary youth coach which coached the Fergie Babes) where he said that he advised a young David Platt not to pursue a career in football since he was...erm...shit. So many players had surprised the football world through the years while talent who was considered to be a safe gamble turned out to be ordinary (Adu is one of them)
 
Isotope said:
I agree that we should aim better player than him; but spanking 10 (rise to 15m) isn't 'lazy'. There's still so much work to develop his potential.

Signing Powell for 4 million IS a lazy signing. So is the like of Obertan. THe fee is low enough as a gamble, that flogging them out isn't such a big deal.
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Was just saying that Hazard at £30 million is no more lazy than signing Zaha. Hazard has to improve to be worth that and you'd still have to do plenty of scouting on him to have a good feeling that hes going to be worth it. Its the same with Zaha but with a lower price and probably a worse player.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Only real similarities between Young and Zaha is they played out wide, are English and both Black. Young came to the club as a proven player and at the peak of his game. No one really thought he could improve his game immeasurably. That would be expected of Zaha.
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Zaha is black - which means likely earlier maturation. Probably not a big factor, but should be taken into account. In any case, immeasurable improvement is a big ask.

There's a certain validity to the characterization of English signings as 'lazy'. With such a huge worldwide pool of talent, should we depend on Fergie spotting a player who happens to play well against us?
 
Will Absolute said:
Zaha is black - which means likely earlier maturation. Probably not a big factor, but should be taken into account. In any case, immeasurable improvement is a big ask.

There's a certain validity to the characterization of English signings as 'lazy'. With such a huge worldwide pool of talent, should we depend on Fergie spotting a player who happens to play well against us?
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What?

Are you trying to say that Black players hit the peak of their ability earlier?
 
Will Absolute said:
Zaha is black - which means likely earlier maturation. Probably not a big factor, but should be taken into account. In any case, immeasurable improvement is a big ask.

There's a certain validity to the characterization of English signings as 'lazy'. With such a huge worldwide pool of talent, should we depend on Fergie spotting a player who happens to play well against us?
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similarly if the player is good, who the feck cares. It's not as though we sign only British/Irish players. We have DDG, Rafael, Vida, Evra, Ando, Nani, Valencia, Chicharito, RVP, Buttner, Lindegaard. And how the feck do you or anyone know we followed him just because he played against us?

Powell, Jones, Smalling, Carrick, Young, Cole, Keane, Sharpe, Irwin, Rio, Rooney etc..
 
Bill.s.preston said:
What?

Are you trying to say that Black players hit the peak of their ability earlier?
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I imagine that he's making a generalisation about the age at which Zaha will have reached physical maturity based on a stereotype.

Jesse Lingard is black, and Sir Alex reckons he won't mature until about 23
 
Bill.s.preston said:
What?

Are you trying to say that Black players hit the peak of their ability earlier?
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Well, across a broad spectrum of measurable attributes, blacks mature earlier, whites in the middle, and orientals later - psychometrics 101. Just as, for instance, girls mature physically earlier than boys.

As for football, I don't know the stats, but a cursory glance at English teams would seem to confirm that black players have a greater representation at lower age levels. If someone wants to do a statistical analysis of the number of black players at the various age levels of English national teams over the last ten years, I suppose it could be confirmed (or refuted).
 
Lazy signing, Zombie Slow Motion signing.....are we re-signing Berba?
 
Through all years in Crystal Palace, Will clearly matured physically.

People at the club remember him when he was quite thin with no bigger presence on the pitch but in time player himself turned that into advantage which made him so agile, that he is now.
 
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