Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace

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Rowem said:
You seriously think that you know who was or wasn't in for him?
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I'm going off press reports....that indicate we were the only real contenders. If there is clear proof there were others, I will happily eat my words.

Rowem said:
Yeah such a shame that Benitez and Mancini weren't in for him. They clearly know better. In fact if he was any good then Rodgers would surely have snapped him up.
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Benitez is well stocked with wider attacking players anyway. Mancini has bought English talent in this time at City and more so in the past year, so isn't adverse to spending in this area.

Rowem said:
Maybe we had to agree to loan him back this season in order to sign him or he would have been sold to another team who wanted to sign him? Or maybe we've done it because otherwise Palace simply wouldn't have accepted our offer considering them winning promotion is worth about 40 million.
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You missed out the rest of that line...the bit about Zaha putting pressure on our underperforming wide players. If he is being bought to compete for a place then why not insist on him coming in straight away? Ferguson clearly wanted the player and United have the capital. Makes me wonder what his role will be next season. To be perfectly honest it is better that he joins in the summer anyway so he gets a proper pre-season under his belt.....hopefully after aiding Palace's promotion effort.

He could go out on loan to a Premier League club next season....because I doubt he will get sufficient games to increase his development, unless he hits the ground running and blitzes the competition in front of him.....which is generally of a very high class.

Rowem said:
Not really sure why I bothered tbh but there you go.
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Well since you bothered I thought I should respond.....doubt it will make much difference but I do have a degree of manners ;)
 
The Neviller said:
Did you believe him when he said he WAS interested the week before? One of those statements was a lie, I guess it's your call which one you believe.
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Well he said "he was looking at him" which implies interest. Then he reveals that "they were never in for him" which implies they had a look.....were perhaps quoted, and decided he wasn't worth the figures.

For the record I never suggested there wasn't interest from other parties....simply that ultimately, there was no competition for his signature. Ferguson thinks he is worth £15 million, Wenger doesn't. The only other scenario I can comprehend is that Zaha simply decided he wanted to join United.....and you can't argue with that.
 
Comsmit said:
I questioned why was there no serious competition for his signature? I also suggested elite managers don't appear to rate him as highly, especially for the sums United paid. I didn't suggest there wasn't any interest from other clubs/managers...you have misinterpreted my words to a degree. If Wenger said he wasn't interested I tend to believe him....why would he lie? To save face? I don't think so Wenger is single minded and doesn't pander to anyone. Zaha isn't a sure bet.
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Why would you suggest there wasn't no competition other managers when there were constant reports of a "transfer tug of war" between the two clubs? Either Wenger's lying or the paper's don't have a clue who is or isn't interested in him - you can't have it both ways.

He probably looked at him and decided he wasn't what he wanted...he is a pretty good judge of young talent.
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Yeah, Sir Alex is pretty rubbish in comparison. Doesn't compare to the new breed of talent-spotters on the Caf.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
One word: Smalling.

Loaned him straight back to Fulham as soon as we signed him. Turns out he isn't half-bad of a player, right?
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Yep understood....but we had Ferdinand, Vidic, Evans, Brown, O'Shea....even Neville was still available that season.

There would have been no point Smalling coming in in January to sit on the bench. Zaha has been playing consistent football for 2 years in a competitive league, and our current wide players are underperforming. I wasn't particularly advocating bringing him in now, common sense (for both parties) suggests waiting until the summer....that said there is no reason he could not provide an impact now considering the form of Valencia in particular.
 
Comsmit said:
Yep understood....but we had Ferdinand, Vidic, Evans, Brown, O'Shea....even Neville was still available that season.

There would have been no point Smalling coming in in January to sit on the bench. Zaha has been playing consistent football for 2 years in a competitive league, and our current wide players are underperforming. I wasn't particularly advocating bringing him in now, common sense (for both parties) suggests waiting until the summer....that said there is no reason he could not provide an impact now considering the form of Valencia in particular.
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The key thing with the deal though was that he was to be loaned straight back to Palace. We might not have seured his services had we wanted to take him right away.

Personally I think we are fairly well stocked for the minute, hopefully Antonio can get his head out of his arse and start performing in rape mode.
 
Brwned said:
Why would you suggest there wasn't no competition other managers when there were constant reports of a "transfer tug of war" between the two clubs? Either Wenger's lying or the paper's don't have a clue who is or isn't interested in him - you can't have it both ways.
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I've offered an explanation for this above....papers pick up on stuff and expand for their own agendas you know that man.

Brwned said:
Yeah, Sir Alex is pretty rubbish in comparison. Doesn't compare to the new breed of talent-spotters on the Caf.
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I knew someone would come back with this...sigh. I actually deleted part of that post that harboured the words "as Ferguson clearly is also." I didn't think it was necessary to include something we all know is as clear as day.

Kin 'ell Brwned I know how good Ferguson is at judging ability...but potential is a different matter...there are many factors that come into play in someone's development. Ferguson may have got this spot on....odds would suggest he has....he doesn't often fail. Zaha will require some serious work though.

It's just an opinion....I'm not trying to rubbish anyone. I'm not an expert I perhaps just look at things a different way.
 
15m is a fair price consider he is still young and has good re-sale value.
 
KanieKaned said:
The key thing with the deal though was that he was to be loaned straight back to Palace. We might not have seured his services had we wanted to take him right away.

Personally I think we are fairly well stocked for the minute, hopefully Antonio can get his head out of his arse and start performing in rape mode.
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Yeh I understand now that it was a condition of the deal...it's fair enough and sensically the best outcome for both clubs and probably player.

Maybe it will give Valencia a kick up the arse knowing that Zaha is arriving in the summer....a young, hungry player after his place is always good to wake you up.
 
Comsmit said:
Well he said "he was looking at him" which implies interest. Then he reveals that "they were never in for him" which implies they had a look.....were perhaps quoted, and decided he wasn't worth the figures.

For the record I never suggested there wasn't interest from other parties....simply that ultimately, there was no competition for his signature. Ferguson thinks he is worth £15 million, Wenger doesn't. The only other scenario I can comprehend is that Zaha simply decided he wanted to join United.....and you can't argue with that.
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Or that Wenger fancied him as a replacement for Walcott, who hadn't committed to a new deal, and then changed his mind when Theo signed on.

Or that it's easy to say that you were never in for a player when you've been beaten to his signature by another club.

Truth is, whether any of the above is true or not, you've no idea what competition United had for his signature. You don't know which clubs lodged interest, who lodged bids, who spoke to his agent, who scouted him and wanted to bring him to their club. None of that do you, or me, or anyone else other than those involved, actually know.

So, with no real basis, you've declared it a lazy signing. You've affixed a negative connotation on this deal, with no real foundation for the claim.
 
The very fact that he has remained there for the rest of the season would, to me anyway, suggest that perhaps there was competition for his signature. If not, surely we could have just waited til the summer?

It has every look of snapping someone up now before any other clubs get a chance to take him.
 
The Neviller said:
The very fact that he has remained there for the rest of the season would, to me anyway, suggest that perhaps there was competition for his signature. If not, surely we could have just waited til the summer?

It has every look of snapping someone up now before any other clubs get a chance to take him.
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Maybe that. Maybe we just wanted to get him before any competition came along. Maybe in case he played great in the second half of the season and at international level, or Palace got promoted and thus his price went up more.

Either way, Fergie doesn't usually sign players in January so it makes all sorts of sense to me that he'd loan him back and get him in the Summer with a full pre-season ahead of him instead.
 
Perhaps Wenger is telling the 'truth'. Maybe more of a half-truth depending on the way you interpret it.

You can be interested in a player but not necessarily in for him. In this scenario, I'm guessing Wenger means submitted a bid. This would align with his statements in public. If we didn't pick up Zaha it's quite possible another club would have nicked him in the summer. We don't really know these things do we? As we have all seen over the years, what's said in public doesn't always reflect what's going on behind closed doors.
 
Comsmit said:
I've offered an explanation for this above....papers pick up on stuff and expand for their own agendas you know that man.



I knew someone would come back with this...sigh. I actually deleted part of that post that harboured the words "as Ferguson clearly is also." I didn't think it was necessary to include something we all know is as clear as day.

Kin 'ell Brwned I know how good Ferguson is at judging ability...but potential is a different matter...there are many factors that come into play in someone's development. Ferguson may have got this spot on....odds would suggest he has....he doesn't often fail. Zaha will require some serious work though.

It's just an opinion....I'm not trying to rubbish anyone. I'm not an expert I perhaps just look at things a different way.
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Eh?

Sir Alex Ferguson said:
"That’s the problem with potential – people don’t identify potential, they’re very poor at it.

I’ve identified it all my life within young people – I know potential, I know how it can be developed and I know how to have faith in it"
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It's amazing how every time we sign a player people go "he doesn't look like he has it in him to be a top player at a club like ours", yet most of the time that's simply not the case. Carrick, Vidic, Evra, Rio, Valencia etc.

Fergie and his staff are the absolute masters of turning a good player into a top player, and helping them reach a level nobody thought they were capable of.
 
Cina said:
It's amazing how every time we sign a player people go "he doesn't look like he has it in him to be a top player at a club like ours", yet most of the time that's simply not the case. Carrick, Vidic, Evra, Rio, Valencia etc.

Fergie and his staff are the absolute masters of turning a good player into a top player, and helping them reach a level nobody thought they were capable of.
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Playing the odds - so they can say look I was right and I am a better judge than our scouts/Fergie.

It's very tough to make it at United and even harder to become a "world class" player. That's the expectation many have, is that each signing needs to turn out to be world class or they aren't good enough to be here.

Personally I think that is what separates us from the likes of Chelsea/City etc. That we end up with a very strong squad that can compete in all competitions and aren't dependent on a given world class XI.

If Zaha can provide the type of performances that Nani, Valencia and even some Young's last year that will be more than worth the price we are paying. If he turns out to be even better, lovely.
 
Cina said:
It's amazing how every time we sign a player people go "he doesn't look like he has it in him to be a top player at a club like ours", yet most of the time that's simply not the case. Carrick, Vidic, Evra, Rio, Valencia etc.

Fergie and his staff are the absolute masters of turning a good player into a top player, and helping them reach a level nobody thought they were capable of.
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But don't forget that in the eyes of a lot of people (some of our fans included) three of the five you mentioned are not top top players. Good players aye, but not 'elite' or 'world class' for want of better words. For some reason, this idea that we have a substandard bunch of players who have been fluking titles because of the mastery of SAF and leaning on the FA has grown to become a truth for certain people.

I guess it's easier for the fans of other clubs to blame corruption and SAF's influence rather than accept that we actually have a very very special group of players. I think this group with one or two additions will go on to achieve phenomenal things. City and Chelsea pushing United will ultimately prove to be a great thing, and it has recently as any other time in history that team would have 2-3 more CL's only for the greatness of the recent Barca team.

I think Zaha is a perfect SAF signing. We may a have paid a premium for him being English, but for that premium you do get some things. He has the Language, there will be no home sickness, he'll settle in straight away, the weather and conditions will be no problem and in many cases it will simply mean more to him to win in England than it would to a foreign import. The premium for all that may be 4-5million on a player of his calibre, but it does remove a hell of a lot of variables.

Lets see how he gets on this year with Palace and next year if he can start to make the step up before we say we should have bought x y & x foreign player.
 
The only opinions I rate regarding Zaha is ones of Fergie, and the Crystal Palace fans. Both parties seem to rate him highly.

That's good enough for me. I don't see the need in entertaining a United fan, who I have no idea how much he's seen of him, who claims Zaha has a very, very long way to go until he's United quality.

I've seen worse players than Zaha who have turned out to be very good players for us.
 
Platato said:
Perhaps Wenger is telling the 'truth'. Maybe more of a half-truth depending on the way you interpret it.

You can be interested in a player but not necessarily in for him. In this scenario, I'm guessing Wenger means submitted a bid. This would align with his statements in public. If we didn't pick up Zaha it's quite possible another club would have nicked him in the summer. We don't really know these things do we? As we have all seen over the years, what's said in public doesn't always reflect what's going on behind closed doors.
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Yep most of the time the agent gets approached by the club and they get a feeling what their player is thinking. The club value and who is in for him.
 
Cina said:
It's amazing how every time we sign a player people go "he doesn't look like he has it in him to be a top player at a club like ours", yet most of the time that's simply not the case. Carrick, Vidic, Evra, Rio, Valencia etc.

Fergie and his staff are the absolute masters of turning a good player into a top player, and helping them reach a level nobody thought they were capable of.
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Good post.

EDIT: good examples as well, apart from Rio who was destined to get to the top.
 
Looks like Cina has come a long way since his skeptic days on Zaha. His full on support of Zaha is heartening, even though it may mean that Nani is sold in the summer.

Good times!
 
Forevergiggs said:
Looks like Cina has come a long way since his skeptic days on Zaha. His full on support of Zaha is heartening, even though it may mean that Nani is sold in the summer.

Good times!
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I was never skeptical of Zaha as a player, at all. I was skeptical of paying so much for a player who has only played at a Championship team, mainly due to the fact that he's English. Basically, we pay too much for English players.

I said a bazillion fecking times throughout that debate that it had nowt to do with how good Zaha can be.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I agree too. That post should wrap up this increasingly stupid thread.
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Given that we've just signed him, I don't see this thread being 'wrapped up' any time soon. It was always going to get a bit weird though, what with us buying a player but not getting to see him in a United shirt yet. The Smalling one was similar, if I remember correctly. As soon as he signed for us he had a terrible run of form with Fulham, and everyone lost their minds.
 
Cina said:
I was never skeptical of Zaha as a player, at all. I was skeptical of paying so much for a player who has only played at a Championship team, mainly due to the fact that he's English. Basically, we pay too much for English players.

I said a bazillion fecking times throughout that debate that it had nowt to do with how good Zaha can be.
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:lol: Cina think you may have just took the bait there! :lol:
 
Brwned said:
Eh?
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Identifying potential is one thing, turning it into the best it can be is not as simple. Ferguson has succeeded greatly in this area, particularly with regard to our own academy players, Fletcher springs to mind instantly. A player widely ridiculed in his first full season, developed into a fine midfielder for club and country.

Outside of the academy structure Ronaldo is obvious.

As a counterweight look at the likes of Obertan, Bellion, Manucho, Tosic and Foster to name a few. I would say Bebe but its clear he was never fully endorsed by Ferguson. That is taking raw to a new level.

Plenty of good managers recognise potential, and buy into it, Wenger being the most obvious. Moulding it isn't straightforward, and a lot depends on the level of potential and the mental application required to enhance it. Ferguson obviously sees it in Zaha, it will be interesting to see which side of the sphere he ends up on.
 
Cevno said:
Zaha doesn't seem to have any Spanish, German, Brazilian, French or any other exotic roots. Must be shit. We are turning into Liverpool wasting money. :rolleyes:
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feck that. I'll call him Zahinho.
 
Comsmit said:
I'm going off press reports....that indicate we were the only real contenders. If there is clear proof there were others, I will happily eat my words.

Benitez is well stocked with wider attacking players anyway. Mancini has bought English talent in this time at City and more so in the past year, so isn't adverse to spending in this area.

You missed out the rest of that line...the bit about Zaha putting pressure on our underperforming wide players. If he is being bought to compete for a place then why not insist on him coming in straight away? Ferguson clearly wanted the player and United have the capital. Makes me wonder what his role will be next season. To be perfectly honest it is better that he joins in the summer anyway so he gets a proper pre-season under his belt.....hopefully after aiding Palace's promotion effort.

He could go out on loan to a Premier League club next season....because I doubt he will get sufficient games to increase his development, unless he hits the ground running and blitzes the competition in front of him.....which is generally of a very high class.



Well since you bothered I thought I should respond.....doubt it will make much difference but I do have a degree of manners ;)
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How is "If he is being bought to compete for a place then why not insist on him coming in straight away?"

in any possible way a reasonable response to the statement:

"Maybe we had to agree to loan him back this season in order to sign him or he would have been sold to another team who wanted to sign him? Or maybe we've done it because otherwise Palace simply wouldn't have accepted our offer considering them winning promotion is worth about 40 million."

The answer is in the statement. In fact there are two possible answers in there. What is the point in posting if you're just going to go around and around in circles when someone responds to you? All to save some face on the internet because you made a stupid comment that doesn't stand up to criticism. Repeating yourself over and over in order to get the last word. I don't mean in to sound harsh, as I'm sure most people have done the same in the past. Why not just let go.

edit: and looking at the rest of the thread you have backtracked somewhat. So that's cool. Now let's all agree that the notion it was a 'lazy' signing is a bit silly.
 
Red_devil_ said:
Deal..so lets set a time period for the assessment ..one season and we will determine if it is better than Saha's first
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Just out of curiosity, how old was Saha when he first signed for United?
I know he's not exactly Giggs or Scholes' esque in terms of age, but he's no Wilshere either.
 
The Neviller said:
Or that Wenger fancied him as a replacement for Walcott, who hadn't committed to a new deal, and then changed his mind when Theo signed on.

Or that it's easy to say that you were never in for a player when you've been beaten to his signature by another club.

Truth is, whether any of the above is true or not, you've no idea what competition United had for his signature. You don't know which clubs lodged interest, who lodged bids, who spoke to his agent, who scouted him and wanted to bring him to their club. None of that do you, or me, or anyone else other than those involved, actually know.

So, with no real basis, you've declared it a lazy signing. You've affixed a negative connotation on this deal, with no real foundation for the claim.
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Everything I have said about Zaha is based on an opinion...we all hold those. As for the perceived interest in him I can only go by what I've seen since negotiations began. Its all conjecture and specualtion so fecking what...does everything have to be enshrined as fact in your narrow minded little world? All I can say is if there was a transfer tug-of-war I'm pretty sure we would know about it. Aaron Ramsey, Smalling, Jones etc. It was clear other clubs tabled bids. Maybe we will find out when Zaha arrives at OT.
 
Comsmit said:
Everything I have said about Zaha is based on an opinion...we all hold those. As for the perceived interest in him I can only go by what I've seen since negotiations began. Its all conjecture and specualtion so fecking what...does everything have to be enshrined as fact in your narrow minded little world? All I can say is if there was a transfer tug-of-war I'm pretty sure we would know about it. Aaron Ramsey, Smalling, Jones etc. It was clear other clubs tabled bids. Maybe we will find out when Zaha arrives at OT.
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You're calling the move lazy, but completely unable to back it up.

If you're going to make statements then it's probably best to base them on some fact, i'm not sure how dealing with facts makes one narrow minded.

Just admit you've said something stupid, i'm not alone in pulling you up on it.
 
Taking my Dad to see Crystal Palace play Huddersfield Town tonight. Going to miss the United game, which is gutting but I guess family is more important.

If Zaha is playing, I'll let you all know how he does.
 
Drainy said:
Taking my Dad to see Crystal Palace play Huddersfield Town tonight. Going to miss the United game, which is gutting but I guess family is more important.

If Zaha is playing, I'll let you all know how he does.
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I'm also thinking of taking a trip to palace sometime, it will be nice to see Zaha in action. I doubt I will though, let us know how it goes.
 
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