Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace

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Stack said:
Its where Adnan first made his claim....
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And?? So Moyes saw an academy player on tour (developed by the previous coaching set up and management) who would probably get his chance anyway cos that's what happens on every pre-season tour. How do you know SAF didn't tell him Januzaj was already highly rated? You think Moyes should be given credit for that? Please.
 
bobbyf said:
And?? So Moyes saw an academy player on tour (developed by the previous coaching set up and management) who would probably get his chance anyway cos that's what happens on every pre-season tour. How do you know SAF didn't tell him Januzaj was already highly rated? You think Moyes should be given credit for that? Please.
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I wasnt giving anyone any credit anywhere. Please quote where I was giving anyone any credit apart from the player himself for making a claim for a spot. Your arguments are all based around assumptions and warped interpretations.
 
Looks to be a complete waste of money to be fair. He's got a bit of talent and for a winger he's not bad at dribbling but his decision making and final ball seem to be completely shite. While I guess there's no solid evidence, his attitude as been questioned a number of times as well. £15m wasted for me that money could have been put towards a real talent.
 
Castia said:
Looks to be a complete waste of money to be fair. He's got a bit of talent and for a winger he's not bad at dribbling but his decision making and final ball seem to be completely shite. While I guess there's no solid evidence, his attitude as been questioned a number of times as well. £15m wasted for me that money could have been put towards a real talent.
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He's a 21 year old winger, their decision making and final ball are almost universally a bit scratchy at that age. I don't think its anything to really worry about yet.
 
Stack said:
I wasnt giving anyone any credit anywhere. Please quote where I was giving anyone any credit apart from the player himself for making a claim for a spot. Your arguments are all based around assumptions and warped interpretations.
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And you're just stating nothing. You think Januzaj got his chance cos of a few games in pre-season?? Obviously he's been on the club's radar for some time. Judging him on just one tour is silly, like judging Zaha on it. He's only been at the club 5 minutes.
 
bobbyf said:
And you're just stating nothing. You think Januzaj got his chance cos of a few games in pre-season?? Obviously he's been on the club's radar for some time. Judging him on just one tour is silly, like judging Zaha on it. He's only been at the club 5 minutes.
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it all goes whoosh right over your head doesnt it
 
Was surprised when we signed him to be honest as I wasn't overly impressed by him at Palace. No real point in selling him in the summer at a massive loss. He might as well be given a chance but he doesn't look up to it at all.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Was surprised when we signed him to be honest as I wasn't overly impressed by him at Palace. No real point in selling him in the summer at a massive loss. He might as well be given a chance but he doesn't look up to it at all.
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Agreed, except I think he should be sent on another loan till January.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Yet another case of Moyes hate binding people's judgement of matters which have feck all to do with Moyes's incompetence.
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Im not arguing for or against Moyes here. I just cant believe people will have such strident opinions based on assumption. I was trying to point out that contrary to opinion Zaha got seen during the pre season (where I thought he did really well). When that was dismissed as silly I mentioned that Januzaj made a claim for a place on the same tour. That got twisted to being something where the question was about Moyes being given credit despite me never mentioning Moyes once.

Ole made mention of something when Zaha went on loan which might be an indicator of some of the improvements Zaha needs to make and it was that he said " We need to teach Wil how to defend".

Zaha is due back with us next month. I like Zaha, would have preferred we kept him ahead of Young.
 
If he's got a questionable attitude, then I'd like to see United work with him with that before giving up on him, rather than just tossing him aside immediately. I remember reading an interview with Lee Hendrie a few years ago. A well known case of a player going off the rails and not being able to handle the profession. He admits it was all his fault, but claimed there needs to be more aid for young players who are struggling to knuckle down to apply themselves at the elementary stages of their professional careers. Based on his outlook, there appears to be minimum guidance for young lads who are being made very wealthy at such a young age by their football clubs, and perhaps these young boys don't appreciate the value of themselves or their careers. There's numerous cases of players who haven't been able to keep their feet on the ground and have blown their careers, and it would be a shame if Wilf Zaha was another case of that.

I believe the talent is evident. He's got plenty of it. He's impressive physically and athletically, but he doesn't seem very bright. There's alot of chatter about him being a poor trainer and a bit of a div overall. I hope it's something the club works with him to see if they can inspire him to knuckle down and prove himself, rather than just thinking that he's made a bollocks of his loan at Cardiff, and sell him back to whichever Championship club wants to take a risk on him.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Was surprised when we signed him to be honest as I wasn't overly impressed by him at Palace. No real point in selling him in the summer at a massive loss. He might as well be given a chance but he doesn't look up to it at all.
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I was very impressed with him last season. He blew a bit hot and cold but he gave some mouthwatering performances despite being a very tightly marked man. Palace would never have gained promotion if it wasn't for him and he deservedly ended up with the Championship POTY award. I trust Moyes' and Ole's judgment, clearly there's a problem with his attitude/maturity. But how anyone who watched him regularly last season can doubt his raw potential is beyond me.
 
Elliott said:
I was very impressed with him last season. He blew a bit hot and cold but he gave some mouthwatering performances despite being a very tightly marked man. Palace would never have gained promotion if it wasn't for him and he deservedly ended up with the Championship POTY award. I trust Moyes' and Ole's judgment, clearly there's a problem with his attitude/maturity. But how anyone who watched him regularly last season can doubt his raw potential is beyond me.
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Yes I could see his 'raw potential' but the games that I watched, he was extremely hit and miss. He looked like an extremely frustrating player and his decision making was often poor.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Yes I could see his 'raw potential' but the games that I watched, he was extremely hit and miss. He looked like an extremely frustrating player and his decision making was often poor.
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We'll have to agree to disagree then. I did not at all see an extremely frustrating player and I doubt such a player would have been voted the league's best. His decision making has been much more of an issue this season, in part - I'd wager - due to his not playing regularly. Seems to me he's caught in a downward spiral of being far too eager to catch the eye when he does get a game, leading to shit decision making, poor performances and a further depletion of an already shot level of confidence. Like I said, I trust Moyes and Ole to do right by him and I'm sure he's gotten nothing but what he deserves, but it's all a bit of a catch-22 for him at the moment and he's definitely not as poor a player as you'd think by looking at him these days.
 
Elliott said:
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I did not at all see an extremely frustrating player and I doubt such a player would have been voted the league's best. His decision making has been much more of an issue this season, in part - I'd wager - due to his not playing regularly. Seems to me he's caught in a downward spiral of being far too eager to catch the eye when he does get a game, leading to shit decision making, poor performances and a further depletion of an already shot level of confidence. Like I said, I trust Moyes and Ole to do right by him and I'm sure he's gotten nothing but what he deserves, but it's all a bit of a catch-22 for him at the moment and he's definitely not as poor a player as you'd think by looking at him these days.
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Agree with all of that and exactly what I've been saying. Give him another season on loan at a prem club and he'll be fine. This season he simply hasn't adjusted mostly through his own fault but the talent is there.
 
Elliott said:
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I did not at all see an extremely frustrating player and I doubt such a player would have been voted the league's best. His decision making has been much more of an issue this season, in part - I'd wager - due to his not playing regularly. Seems to me he's caught in a downward spiral of being far too eager to catch the eye when he does get a game, leading to shit decision making, poor performances and a further depletion of an already shot level of confidence. Like I said, I trust Moyes and Ole to do right by him and I'm sure he's gotten nothing but what he deserves, but it's all a bit of a catch-22 for him at the moment and he's definitely not as poor a player as you'd think by looking at him these days.
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Of course he isn't as poor as he has shown himself to be lately. Plenty of players impress in the Championship and fail to make the step-up to Premiership level.

I'm not saying he was poor in the Championship; he impressed me in some games but I genuinely found him frustrating to watch in other games. And yes, I was surprised we bought him. I expected him to leave Palace but to go to a lesser club than ourselves. He badly needs to sort himself out; his performance yesterday was atrocious from what I seen.

As I said, there is no point selling him this summer as we will make a massive loss and it won't be in any way beneficial. Another PL loan seems the best option. I hope he finds his form again as he has got potential. I wasn't fully sold on him at Palace and I'm certainly not now. Only time will tell, I guess but I honestly don't see him making it here.
 
He's not a very good player and a knobhead to boot. Get rid in the summer. We should never have signed him, the hype around this guy was one of the more puzzling phenomena I've witnessed in football.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Of course he isn't as poor as he has shown himself to be lately. Plenty of players impress in the Championship and fail to make the step-up to Premiership level.

I'm not saying he was poor in the Championship; he impressed me in some games but I genuinely found him frustrating to watch in other games. And yes, I was surprised we bought him. I expected him to leave Palace but to go to a lesser club than ourselves. He badly needs to sort himself out; his performance yesterday was atrocious from what I seen.

As I said, there is no point selling him this summer as we will make a massive loss and it won't be in any way beneficial. Another PL loan seems the best option. I hope he finds his form again as he has got potential. I wasn't fully sold on him at Palace and I'm certainly not now. Only time will tell, I guess but I honestly don't see him making it here.
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We seem to agree on a cure even if our diagnoses somewhat differ.
 
I reckon we could get around £6.5m for him if we sold him in the summer. I'd take it and cut our losses. We paid Palace £10m up front and the other clauses will not have come into effect, so the loss can be minimised.

That said, if another club wishes to take him on loan then why not. The only issue is that if he has another loan season like this one, we'll get £2.5m for him after that. I'd say give him back to Palace for good money while they still happen to believe he is the most talented player they have ever had.
 
Rozay said:
I reckon we could get around £6.5m for him if we sold him in the summer. I'd take it and cut our losses. We paid Palace £10m up front and the other clauses will not have come into effect, so the loss can be minimised.

That said, if another club wishes to take him on loan then why not. The only issue is that if he has another loan season like this one, we'll get £2.5m for him after that. I'd say give him back to Palace for good money while they still happen to believe he is the most talented player they have ever had.
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Sell him based on what, one season with Moyes in charge? We gave much worse players than Zaha years at the club to get it right. Suddenly, he's not good enough, even though SAF thought he was worth signing? If he's been a rubbish signing what about Fellaini? He should be sold too.

Stack said:
No, the problem is the voices in your head have taken over....
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The problem is people like you have to get silly when you don't agree with something and have absolutely nothing to back up your argument with. Keep it to yourself.
 
Bebe said:
He's not a very good player and a knobhead to boot. Get rid in the summer. We should never have signed him, the hype around this guy was one of the more puzzling phenomena I've witnessed in football.
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I'd have to agree. I just don't see this 'talent' he's supposed to have.
He lacks the basic ball skills.

Redmond and Ince are more skilled at trapping a ball and dribbling precisely (neither have his athleticism though). And that's not even mentioning the likes of Oxlade Chamberlain, Januzaj and Sterling (all younger).

He's a big, strong, quick lad. He's good at shielding the ball. But he reminds me of the guy we all knew at school who was clumsy on the ball, would often overrun it, yet would often come out with the ball via ricochets off the opponents' shins. He'd claim he was 'skilful' but everyone else would call him lucky. And eventually the ricochets would stop happening in his favour as the defenders got better.

Being big and quick and daring is often enough in the Championship against trudging fullbacks. But in the big leagues, the actual ability to control the ball, make it stick, and get a clean connection is what counts.

That's not even mentioning his lack of tactical awareness and poor movement. It's understandable for a young player to lack in awareness, and I'd have no qualms with his mentality or decision making if I could actually see the technique - But I don't.
And the technical side of the game is the side that is clear to see from day one; It's the mental side that potentially improves hugely with age.
Ronaldo's problem was that he'd dribble past two or three men and rush the shot or cross - a lack of composure . Zaha doesn't even manage to dribble past the two or three men most of the time - a lack of technique.

Maybe he'll have a future here, but I don't see it.
 
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He has the raw attributes which makes you think he can be a very good player, the same qualities which make him look like such a prospect can be the same thing that holds him back. United needed to refine him, find the balance between his raw physicality and unpredictably and intelligence and knowing how and when to play for the team. Ferguson would have been the perfect person to deal with the sheer project he is, i think its a shame for him that he retired before he could get a chance to attempt to mould him, i think Ferguson understood the type of player he was buying and investing in, but maybe Moyes doesn't?
 
I just can't see him playing like he did in the championship for Palace ever again, but I'm not in the camp that thinks he should be thrown to the dogs already. He needs time, and its not as if his wages are hurting our squad at all.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
True, although I'm not sure Moyes can afford to treat any competition with disdain next season. Europa League or League cup included, Moyes will be deeper under the microscope.
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I know many here regard the Europa League as some sort of joke but for me if we are in it then it would be great to win the thing.
I thought that Zaha looked good on the pre season tour and hoped he would play for us more during the season. I watched his weekend effort and thought he was average but would still prefer him over Young, this season was always going to be an ugly one so to me it would have been a great time to get him playing for us.
 
Stack said:
I know many here regard the Europa League as some sort of joke but for me if we are in it then it would be great to win the thing.
I thought that Zaha looked good on the pre season tour and hoped he would play for us more during the season. I watched his weekend effort and thought he was average but would still prefer him over Young, this season was always going to be an ugly one so to me it would have been a great time to get him playing for us.
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Agreed. I know it's often deemed a distraction but that's because it's usually clubs like Spurs, Everton, Swansea et al that are in it. All of whom don't have a squad capable of dealing with the extra demand, whereas we'd be the opposite and we'd have players not getting enough games.

The way I see it is it's a great opportunity for the fringe/young players to get European experience and it's a competition we'd be in with a shout for winning.
 
Should just write this season off as a bad one for zaha and get him a year loan next year at a half decent premier league club and see what he can do.

Would be hasty to sell him on yet, imagine we show him the door only for him to become a top player elsewhere in a few years.
 
bobbyf said:
Sell him based on what, one season with Moyes in charge? We gave much worse players than Zaha years at the club to get it right. Suddenly, he's not good enough, even though SAF thought he was worth signing? If he's been a rubbish signing what about Fellaini? He should be sold too.



The problem is people like you have to get silly when you don't agree with something and have absolutely nothing to back up your argument with. Keep it to yourself.
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Based on him not being good enough. Frankly, nobody should care what Fergie thought of him, Fergie is not manager of Manchester United. Moyes has assessed the players he has inherited and will let go those he doesn't rate in the summer. Zaha appears to be amongst those he doesn't rate, so it stands to reason he should be sold. Moyes did not sign him, and is not obligated to rate him or play him because Fergie might have.

I don't rate Fellaini either, but Moyes must do, so I doubt he'll be sold. But in my view, both are poor players and not good enough for United. One is struggling to convince he is even good enough for the Premier League. If we can only sell one, it's better than none and still a step in the right direction I believe.
 
RedCafe's SpeakTruth: He lacks basic ball skills
Ole Gunnar Solskjær: He's one of the best I've seen with the ball

Who to believe..?
 
Rozay said:
Based on him not being good enough. Frankly, nobody should care what Fergie thought of him, Fergie is not manager of Manchester United. Moyes has assessed the players he has inherited and will let go those he doesn't rate in the summer. Zaha appears to be amongst those he doesn't rate, so it stands to reason he should be sold. Moyes did not sign him, and is not obligated to rate him or play him because Fergie might have.

I don't rate Fellaini either, but Moyes must do, so I doubt he'll be sold. But in my view, both are poor players and not good enough for United. One is struggling to convince he is even good enough for the Premier League. If we can only sell one, it's better than none and still a step in the right direction I believe.
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Are you serious? But this season has proved that Moyes doesn't have the clue how to manage our team.

He wasted £65m on 2 players without really improving a squad that needed replacements and now, cos he thinks Zaha isn't good enough, we should make a loss by seling him too? What makes you think he knows better than SAF? Everything Moyes has doesn't since taking the job has been a mistake. He shouldn't even have the job now after this disaster of a season, taking us from champions to 7th, even below Everton!

Zaha has made 2 appearances for us, that's 2!! Is that really enough time to say he's not up to scratch? Yes, he's been poor at Cardiff but only made 3 appearances for them. But that's 5 in total all season. Who cares who Moyes rates or not cos he should be sacked after the last game of the season, if not before. Then if Zaha doesn't show his potential under a better manager, then yes sell him, but not till he's had a proper chance.
 
Would be absolutely pointless to sell him just yet. But he's gotta go out on loan again. Rather give the first team opportunity to Lingard.
 
The bickering in this place is quite hilarious - the first four posts that is, then it becomes redundant.

Zaha obviously has talent, but for a young, talented player to join a new club, which is playing rubbish and about to get relegated, and do very well only happens once in a blue moon. We know Fabio has quality, but is he doing well there?

I'd give him next season on loan or as part of the squad and see how he develops. One poor season and half of you are ready to write him off - true supporters that is.
 
Rossa said:
Zaha obviously has talent, but for a young, talented player to join a new club, which is playing rubbish and about to get relegated, and do very well only happens once in a blue moon. We know Fabio has quality, but is he doing well there?
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Fabio is doing well there incidentally.
 
Lu Tze said:
Fabio is doing well there incidentally.
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Oh? Good for him! I thought he wasn't - has he improved lately then? I always loved the little fella, and I genuinly hope he will become world class so that Moyes can see what an utter fool he was for selling him (and I'm pro Moyes getting another season, but selling Fabio was a dumb as can be)
 
Rossa said:
The bickering in this place is quite hilarious - the first four posts that is, then it becomes redundant.

Zaha obviously has talent, but for a young, talented player to join a new club, which is playing rubbish and about to get relegated, and do very well only happens once in a blue moon. We know Fabio has quality, but is he doing well there?

I'd give him next season on loan or as part of the squad and see how he develops. One poor season and half of you are ready to write him off - true supporters that is.
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I agree. And this season he's had one clueless manager at our club and Ole who has taken on a difficult first job in our league. These people want to sell Zaha based on a handful of games this season, how pathetic is that? He needs a fair chance and then we'll see if he's up to it.
 
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