Not to mention Kagawa. Or sticking Welbeck on the wing to give Hernandez a game up front. We've plenty of options in wide midfield, it's just Zaha's bad luck that he's (deservedly) bottom of the pecking order, so his best chance of getting games this season is at a different club.
Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace
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Not to mention Kagawa. Or sticking Welbeck on the wing to give Hernandez a game up front. We've plenty of options in wide midfield, it's just Zaha's bad luck that he's (deservedly) bottom of the pecking order, so his best chance of getting games this season is at a different club.
The fact remains that an 18 year old who hasn't had any first team appearances before this season, was chosen ahead of a first team regular at a Championship side who was a key figure in their promotion to the PL. Why? We can only speculate, but it's most probably because of what goes on in training and seeing who has worked hard and impressed.
It's a bit weird how everyone absolutely rips into Moyes because of the way he's handled someone like Kagawa. Not a single question regarding his application or efforts behind the scenes. Moyes himself has said he didn't see what everyone was raving about.
I won't rule out that he possibly could be a bit laid back in training, he doesn't strike me as a ridiculously hard worker but I don't think we loaned him out as a starting point to cut our losses on him. I think we loaned him out so he has starting point in this league which should hopefully be a kick in the backside...not to mention that legend managing him. Adnan is so far technically advanced that he had to come into the side. Zaha is going to be far more reliant on his physical attributes when/if he eventually breaks through because those are his strengths. It could take him a while to really find himself as a PL player.
I won't rule out that he possibly could be a bit laid back in training, he doesn't strike me as a ridiculously hard worker but I don't think we loaned him out as a starting point to cut our losses on him. I think we loaned him out so he has starting point in this league which should hopefully be a kick in the backside...not to mention that legend managing him. Adnan is so far technically advanced that he had to come into the side. Zaha is going to be far more reliant on his physical attributes when/if he eventually breaks through because those are his strengths. It could take him a while to really find himself as a PL player.
At the start of the season I was all for Zaha going on loan and getting premier league experience under the belt as I didn't think he was good enough to get regular game time. All that changed with the consistently appalling form of both Young and Valencia combined with Nani's injury. Considering the circumstances Zaha should have at least got chances to show what he could do. IF Moyes did not think he was good enough then why on earth was he not loaned straight away to a premier league club? Why waste months of his development playing shit U21 games? We fecked up either way. What we did was freeze him out of the team and then gave him a couple of chances here and there. No wonder he made no impact.
I can't speak for others, but Moyes being in charge has made no difference to me. We could have handled the whole situation a whole lot better.
But we've been through this same conversation before so no point in debating the same old shit.
You say it's crunch time at Cardiff and Ole has preferred playing the experienced players. It's been crunch time since day 1 for Moyes at United and he's mainly stuck to experienced players as well. When there has been an opportunity to play a youngster, he has given it to the vastly superior Januzaj...
Bloody hell give the kid a chance his frigging 20. Bale had see able talent at his age too but was terrible. Use your history some of you guys talk like you've just started watching football. As for lazy training.. So what, tones of players have been renowned for it i.e. Our own Nick Powell. Turning up late for games is the concern.
That was explained at the time as giving him 6 months training with United players, under United coaches. Usually a good idea, with raw young footballers like that, Same approach Fergie has taken with similar footballers in the past. I actually think it's a really tough break for a new signing to immediately be shipped out to play at a smaller club, after getting their dream move. Fair play to Nick Powell for making so much of the situation he found himself in. A weaker individual might have floundered.
Based on his form last season and in pre-season, Zaha appears to have deserved more of a chance to impress for us this year.
None of us can really comment on training and the like.
None of us can really comment on training and the like.
We can't comment on what we've seen from him in training but we can certainly infer a lot from what his managers have said about him.
Ole, for example:
The bits in bold speaks volumes.
23 in November actually.
You suck at math.
she, yes, I do. 22
Reminds me a bit of Taarabt, in mentality and playing ability.
Well probably because Januzaj is one of the best young players in the world and one of our very best players this season and scored twice in an unforgettable debut. A young Ronaldo might not be picked over him.
Zaha was already an England international and signed for 15m. Rightly or Wrongly that creates a certain expectation of game time at his new club. Freezing him out after signing him (and after he looked good in pre-season) did not favours to him at all. Game time at his age is essential and if Zaha wasn't in Moyes' plan he should have sent out on loan immediately. He wasn't even a regular off the bench.
You can infer a lot of things from that. Here's what Holloway said to reports about his poor attitude:
Suggesting that, there was nothing wrong with his attitude whilst he was at Palace.
Yep, turning up for some of Palace's biggest games last season shows that there's something wrong with his mentality.
I still find it odd that we signed Zaha when Fergie had already decided to retire. Very strange.
That quote had nothing to do with application in training, it was a response to reports that he turned up late to a game for the reserves.
You also - for some reason known only to yourself - deliberately omitted the most damning part of that interview.
How is that damning?? Holloway is commenting based solely on reports in the media as his article shows (basically he seems to have no more information than us). Where does Holloway say there was anything wrong with Zaha while he was at Palace?
Was that an attempt at sarcasm or were you agreeing?
*sigh*
Another quote from the same article by Holloway:
That's pretty fecking black and white, no?
If your mind is already made up that poor Wilf Zaha has been grievously mistreated by the horrible Mr Moyes, then feel free to deliberately ignore what his other managers, past and present, have implied about the role Zaha has had to play in his lack of opportunities this season. That's your perogative, I suppose.
Me, I'm going to take their comments on board.
That's without even getting into the growing evidence in front of our eyes, week by week, that he's barely good enough to start for Cardiff - let alone United.
I don't rate him personally but I don't see why they wouldn't have signed him just because Fergie was leaving. They saw him as a prospect with loads of potential and as such wanted to make sure he came to us. Another example of Ferguson doing his best to leave Moyes a young squad with buckets of potential.
It's pretty odd to be making long-term decisions about players when you know a new manager will be coming in shortly, especially when it will eat into the funds available to the new man.
It's common at clubs with a Director of Football, but we don't use that structure.
If anything, I wish that more long-term decisions about players had been made before Fergie retired.
Like belatedly biting the bullet and upgrading Anderson, for starters.
I don't rate him that highly either. I struggle to see him ever becoming a top quality winger for United. He's still young so he has time on his side, he isn't starting for Cardiff anymore is he?
And he's going by entirely what he's hearing in the media as that article blatantly shows. And Holloway, like most seem to assume that Januzaj is the reason Zaha's game time has been limited. His game time time has been limited because we choose to persist with championship standard performances from our other wingers week in week out.
Stop talking shite.
Your unending crusade of defending everything Moyes does is just as tiresome as the lunatics who criticize him all day long.
Unending? Heh. Hardly.
I think the answer here is somewhere in the middle. I've never rated Zaha too highly from the moment he signed. I don't think his dribbling and 'skill' is that innate, it's as clumsy as it is impressive. However, he's 21 and he does have talent. He's athletic, fast and unpredictable, and certainly has potential. I don't know who compared him to a young Bale, but it's fair to say that at 20/21, Bale was more of a laughing stock than a sure-fire world star that would go on to play for Real Madrid.
For that reason, I think Moyes would be rash in letting go of Zaha, irrespective of the attitude 'problem'. And yes, Zaha probably has one. However, and this is what irks me with Moyes, throughout all of these reports in the media and discussions we have on here, there seems to be this attitude that Moyes should just sell those he doesn't rate or doesn't like, with no thought or argument for his obligation to actually improve and mature these young lads. I'd sooner see Moyes put his arm around Zaha, attempt to work things out, and actively pursue improvement, instead of sacking him off and rendering his purchase a total waste of money. Likewise with young players like Rafael, Smalling and Jones. Moyes' job is to improve them, both on and off the field. That shouldn't be forgotten.
Zaha has a long way to go, and he comes across like a bit of turnip, but I don't think we should give up just yet. Manchester United isn't about buying a 20 year old British winger with talent and giving up after a tough year.
For that reason, I think Moyes would be rash in letting go of Zaha, irrespective of the attitude 'problem'. And yes, Zaha probably has one. However, and this is what irks me with Moyes, throughout all of these reports in the media and discussions we have on here, there seems to be this attitude that Moyes should just sell those he doesn't rate or doesn't like, with no thought or argument for his obligation to actually improve and mature these young lads. I'd sooner see Moyes put his arm around Zaha, attempt to work things out, and actively pursue improvement, instead of sacking him off and rendering his purchase a total waste of money. Likewise with young players like Rafael, Smalling and Jones. Moyes' job is to improve them, both on and off the field. That shouldn't be forgotten.
Zaha has a long way to go, and he comes across like a bit of turnip, but I don't think we should give up just yet. Manchester United isn't about buying a 20 year old British winger with talent and giving up after a tough year.
Er, I'm pretty sure Pogue doesn't rate Moyes as our manager; he's just not flying planes overhead in his desperation to let that be known.
YES, there will always be young players who need close management to get the best out of them. These players need two things:
- Minutes on the pitch; not for the reserves
- Strong coaching and people management off the pitch
I think our squad is so bloated that we too often take the easy option on point 1 - picking a more senior player struggling for form, and can't really be properly bothered enough with point 2.
If we really got this right, our squad would be smaller (see the way Mourinho does not keep too many players in the first team squad for a season), Paul Pogba would very likely be on our central midfield, and Zaha and maybe Powell would both have played in at least 10 premiership games this season. And I'm not sure I see anything bad about that.
And yes, I know that Pogba did not do enough for the reserves, etc. etc. but we could and should still have given him more minutes. Let's hope we've learnt from that... at least Januzaj has been picked out early and is playing.
Yep. I've been complaining about the size of the squad for ages now. I said it last week, I think, but it's definitely been a contributory factor in our increase in injuries since 2009 or so. What started happening around that time? Sir Alex invented a rotation policy that would get the best out of three players in Rio, Scholes and Giggs. Practically every young player since then has been accused of stagnation, goalkeeper aside. And even Sir Alex tried as best he could to mess on with with De Gea and Lindegaard.
The sooner we cut the squad size down the less injuries we will get and the more likely it is we will see a large group of players at their best form as opposed to a select few. I think you're right when you say that Zaha would have had more game time if he wasn't fighting for minutes with so many players, some of which, Valencia and Young, that are inadequate to begin with.
I still think Zaha is clumsy, and I can definitely believe he's got an attitude, but we shouldn't give up after a year. That's wrong.
I said I saw some similarities to Bebe in the summer and was slated for it. I still stand by that personally. He's struggled to get into Cardiff's side too, and he isn't as inexperienced as some wish to make out. He had played over 100 games at Championship level, any of the upper tier young players looking to enjoy a Premiership career should be looking at stepping up after that. The likes of Tom Ince and Victor Moses both looked more impressive after similar moves. Matty Phillips in his spell in the Premier League with Blackpool also looked much better, and was younger.
I suspect if Zaha wants to make it he firstly needs taking down a few pegs to realise he probably isn't the player he thinks he currently is. And I am someone who loves a bit of arrogance in young attacking players generally speaking. The annoying thing is we could do with a player in the first-team with the attributes most commonly associated with his game.
I suspect if Zaha wants to make it he firstly needs taking down a few pegs to realise he probably isn't the player he thinks he currently is. And I am someone who loves a bit of arrogance in young attacking players generally speaking. The annoying thing is we could do with a player in the first-team with the attributes most commonly associated with his game.
Januzaj has done well. Lets be honest though, there's no way Moyes or any manager can predict for certain how a youngster will perform in an actual game regardless of what they did in training. Every player bar Anderson and Zaha has been given a fair chance. Young has been given too many.
Decent performance.
At £15m we have to look to get him involved at some point. Flogging him at a cut price without ever really seeing what he can do seems silly. I hope along with Powell he sees some action in the first team next season. Particularly if we fail to sign top players.
I hope his time with Ole can really get him motivated even if he isn't playing every minute of every game. Is it Noone or Mutch who usually plays wide right and is often impressive?
I hope his time with Ole can really get him motivated even if he isn't playing every minute of every game. Is it Noone or Mutch who usually plays wide right and is often impressive?
It's Noone who plays on the right. Mutch plays through the middle.
Anyways, regarding Zaha, I think this loan period will help him realise that he isn't all that he thought he was. His time at Crystal Palace certainly made him think he was already a world class player. However, he still has some way to go, and that development will occur once he matures. Look at how mature Januzaj is and how his maturity's contributed to his very promising performances. Gotze was also very mature at such a young age and showed the promise to potentially be the best player in the world.
All Zaha needs to do is knuckle down and realise that he can't just make it because of his time at Crystal Palace. Only then can we see his talent and potential come to the fore.
Not looking too good for him, apparently:
Manchester United outcast Wilfried Zaha has missed out on the chance to sign for West Ham United this summer after failing to impress on loan with Cardiff City over the last three months, according to The Mirror.
Zaha joined Cardiff on loan in January in a bid for consistent first-team football in the Premier League, something that United boss David Moyes had decided the England international wasn't ready for during the first half of the season.
The 21-year-old was on West Ham manager Sam Allardyce's radar prior to making a loan switch away from Old Trafford, but reports sent back to the Clarets chief have not been favourable and effectively ended their interest in the versatile young forward.
Cardiff manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is yet to give Zaha a full 90 minutes in the Premier League, with the ex-Crystal Palace star left on the bench for their last three matches and largely used as an impact substitute in the battle to beat the drop.
United paid Palace a whopping £15m for one England's most talented prospects last summer, a fee Allardyce will not even contemplate matching as he bids to engineer a wholesale clearout at Upton Park during the close season.
Zaha will now be faced with the prospect of fighting for his place again at United next season, or Moyes may decide to cut his losses on the star and invite offers from rival Premier League clubs at the close of the campaign.
http://www.givemesport.com/449761-manchester-united-starlet-to-miss-out-on-london-return?autoplay=on
Manchester United outcast Wilfried Zaha has missed out on the chance to sign for West Ham United this summer after failing to impress on loan with Cardiff City over the last three months, according to The Mirror.
Zaha joined Cardiff on loan in January in a bid for consistent first-team football in the Premier League, something that United boss David Moyes had decided the England international wasn't ready for during the first half of the season.
The 21-year-old was on West Ham manager Sam Allardyce's radar prior to making a loan switch away from Old Trafford, but reports sent back to the Clarets chief have not been favourable and effectively ended their interest in the versatile young forward.
Cardiff manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is yet to give Zaha a full 90 minutes in the Premier League, with the ex-Crystal Palace star left on the bench for their last three matches and largely used as an impact substitute in the battle to beat the drop.
United paid Palace a whopping £15m for one England's most talented prospects last summer, a fee Allardyce will not even contemplate matching as he bids to engineer a wholesale clearout at Upton Park during the close season.
Zaha will now be faced with the prospect of fighting for his place again at United next season, or Moyes may decide to cut his losses on the star and invite offers from rival Premier League clubs at the close of the campaign.
http://www.givemesport.com/449761-manchester-united-starlet-to-miss-out-on-london-return?autoplay=on
Apparently indeed. Whats the difference between articles like that and all the ones convincing us Nani would be sold?
What a harrowing prospect for the poor lad.
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