The guy is young, there is plenty of time to improve. I just don't feel as though we can get him to that level and have to deal with his poor consistency.
Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace
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Because? How can you call his consistency poor if he's played 5 games all season?
Okay, I feel his consistency will be poor.
This
He's definitely been consistent at Cardiff, to be fair!
Should Moyes keep Young because Fergie bought him and probably rates him? As long as he is in charge, he will rule by his own convictions. I don't see why a man who struggles to get into the Cardiff team should feature highly on his thoughts.
I can appreciate the sentiment of wanting Moyes sacked, but so long as he isn't, he can't be expected to play Zaha if he doesn't fancy him, especially when he didn't sign him.
Another Bebe for Fergie I reckon and I'm not comparing their quality or transfers. I think he saw Ronaldo as his perfect footballer and believed that he could use him as a blue print. A young player with a fantastic physique, plenty of pace and some trickery and him and his coaches will do the rest.
One season is not enough to prove anything in football. Not about Zaha, and not about Moyes.
Honestly, I'm very comfortable with the status quo with Zaha. I don't think he's currently effective enough that I want him to be available at United, but I think a good loan spell where he clicks and becomes a regular will see his game advance quickly. Nothing has changed about the raw ability that we all saw him show at Palace. So keep him in the loan system - at Cardiff, maybe, or at a PL club if anyone who looks like they will actually play him comes in for him. If he never comes good then we can always just sell him, no real harm done.
Zaha doesn't even look that quick...
Based on his previous form at Palace his consistency will definitely be a problem unless he matures. I was baffled that he won the Championship POTY in 2012/13 (it was akin to Bale winning the POTY in 10/11). To be fair those play-off performances (away at Brighton and in the final) were huge for getting Palace promoted BUT he was invisible/ineffective for a good chunk of that season, especially the four months after we had agreed to sign him where Palace went from automatic favourites to very lucky to reach the playoffs.
Yeah, agreed. If we're being positive about it we're in a win-win situation with him. If he turns out good he's ours, if he turns out poor we can get rid and we're not depending on him.
if he turns out to be good I think other clubs will come in for him and given how he's been treated he'll kick and scream until it becomes too much of a headache to do anything else but offload him.
Zaha is a brilliant talent if he just sorts his heart out. I think he has the talent to go really far but his dribbling which was one of his strengths in the Championship has been extraordinary poor since he took the step up. He is incapable of getting past players unless he already has built up his pace, and he is horrendous at building up pace to make sure he has it when he faces someone in a 1 vs 1.
That step up should be rather simple in theory so it is baffling that he has spent almost a year now without adjusting this issue. Whenever he has his pace up he is a still outstanding and beats players with ease.
That step up should be rather simple in theory so it is baffling that he has spent almost a year now without adjusting this issue. Whenever he has his pace up he is a still outstanding and beats players with ease.
I imagine they are grateful for being in the PL however I think they expect that when players come to their club as a stepping stone to prove themselves they'd at least put a bit of effort in, which they judge Zaha doesn't do.
I never get this point, it just seems a bit weird. It's as if you're implying a manager hasn't ever got any signing or judgement on a player wrong. I'm sure you could find plenty of quotes from much better manes than Solksjaer is saying how good certain players are before that player drifted off in to nothingness.
It really, really, really isn't. It's comparing the expertise of a Premier League manager to the expertise of some random guy on the Caf who, judging by the rest of his post, can't have seen much of Zaha.
So to put this in to context then, any time anyone questions anything like Valencia, Young, Fellaini or any of the other "worse" United players I assume you'll question them on it?
Young for example is a regular in England squads, a regular in David Moyes squads and a regular in Alex Ferguson's squads so all them managers must see something in him. If someone questions that decision then surely to end any debate ever about a player the reply is simply "Well Alex Ferguson liked him so....." Their expertise in this kind of stuff is far greater than ours after all.
Football is about opinions, not everyone has to agree with what Solskjaer says because of who he is. Furthermore you could argue he said it to talk up his new signing. He's hardly going to turn around and say "Zaha? Nah he's bit shit to be honest."
I agree with your sentiment for what it's worth, premier league managers are more qualified than others to judge players but that doesn't mean people aren't entitled to make a comment. I've heard plenty of premierl eague managers say some strange stuff that you'd find a lot of people will disagree with.
This.
If we have UEFA football next season I would love to have him back as back up / sub i the league - but also as someone who can play the midweek games and league cup games and use them as an opportunity to try and establish himself...
we could always loan him out in the second half of the season if he is not getting enough games then
I think we'll play the long game with him, more loans if this one doesnt turn around and not rush into anything. And at the very least if Moyes doesnt fancy him and Zaha decides to cut his losses and looks to move on, I think the very least we'll do is use him in part exchange for another of English football's bigger talents, like the next Shaws, Jones and Barkleys to turn up in a season or two
Regardless of his loan at Cardiff he was extremely sought after a year ago and while United and Arsenal might be less keen on him at this point every team smaller than them will be keeping an eye on him to see if he clicks.
Regardless of his loan at Cardiff he was extremely sought after a year ago and while United and Arsenal might be less keen on him at this point every team smaller than them will be keeping an eye on him to see if he clicks.
I'd prefer it if we gave that opportunity to those young players who worked for their chance and applied themselves properly, showing the correct attitude.
1. The fella's post reeks of someone who can't have seen much of Zaha.
2. It just so happened that one of the more shocking lines in said post perfectly contradicted a quote by one of the most respected men
'round here.
3. Voilà.
And that's the extent of it.
Take away the 'lacks ball skills' line of my post, which you seem to have taken issue with,
What else indicates that I haven't seen much of Zaha? Unless Solskjaer means tricks and flicks, I simply can't agree that he's all that good technically. He's not a great dribbler, his control is hit and miss as is his crossing.
He tries lots of flicks though.
Confident and on form he's a very good dribbler
I really don't feel like reading it again but I seem to recall something about a schoolyard klutz who ricochets balls off people's shins, strutting around like he's "skillful" when everybody knows he's just "lucky" or some such jazz. Forgive me for being a bit fuzzy on the details, the point is - it was quite surreal. Then there was the part about Zaha being big and strong but not as good a dribbler as Ince, Redmond et al., even though Zaha, whose game is much more based on actual dribbling (i.e. not kicking and running), was voted Championship POTY ahead of them and the difference in their ability to go past people (with skill as much as pace and power) was clear when they lined up next to each other in several England u21 games last season. But the "lacks basic balls skills" line was definitely the pièce de résistance.
I remember listening to a radio phone in when Zaha was being linked to a move to us, and two consecutive Palace fans said Yannick Bolasie was a better talent than Zaha. It surprised me. Of course they could be wrong, but I was expecting that a guy playing for Palace being linked with a big money move to us would be head and shoulders a better player than anything else they had, so even one person dissenting should have been surprise, but two in a row?
As it is I thought Bolasie was outstanding against Chelsea, though nowhere near the finished article.
As it is I thought Bolasie was outstanding against Chelsea, though nowhere near the finished article.
Bolasie though older, is similar minus the pace and the goals that took Palace into the premier league. He's stronger and a decent player in his own right. Not sure how good he'd be after moving to a new club and not playing for half a season though
That's exactly how I saw it when I watched Zaha. I could have predicted that he'd struggle to beat men in the Premier League. It was often a case of over/under-running the ball, but having the strength or pace to recover it.
He seems to always be stretching for the ball. The best dribblers don't do that.
Zaha doesn't kick and run. Neither do Ince or Redmond. I still think both are better at dribbling. Zaha going past people last year (he's struggling to do it this season) was as much to do with his physicality as it was his actual ability to dribble. That can be enough in the Championship - but not the Premier League.
Being POTY last season doesn't really have anything to do with his ability to dribble specifically. Bale isn't a better dribbler than Silva or Suarez, for example.
Zaha's great at chopping the ball sideways, and can shield the ball well - I'll give him that.
But actually beating a man consistently or keeping full control when running with the ball? Nah, I don't see it.
And that's supposed to be his main weapon.
I admit I have not seen a lot of Zaha but he does not seem to be in complete control of the ball while dribbling. He does not even look very natural at it. Has a very awkward style when he tries to dribble which is not pleasing on the eye.
Young has had his chance at the club and not delivered. Has he played only 2 games for us? No he's had 59. Zaha hasn't had his chance so selling him at a loss after this catastrophic season would be idiotic.
One of the most disappointing things in this is that the guy is already 21...
I see alot of people mentioning he is still young and that he has still time to become a great player for us. But really feck this, if your 21 you are not that that young anymore, if he was 18 or something I'd agree. But if he doesn't drastically improve within the next 2 years he should be considered a total failure. There are many younger who show alot more promise than Zaha...
Kind off have to agree with SpeakTruth, we bought a Championship star but not a great player. He dominated that competition last year because the combination of technique and physicality he had was a good combination to have in that competition versus teams with defenders and midfielders who struggle to deal with that. In the PL this doesn't work, he can't get away with technical mistakes anymore, he can't get past his man anymore because he is stronger, faster and longer than them and he generally looks like an uneffective player. On top of that it seems he has a poor mentality aswell, which just makes him a handfull and in the end his potential is not that great that he is worth all the trouble of trying to make him a good footballer.
Imo we have bigger fish to fry than Zaha, and he just feels like an unnescarry distartaction that really ain't worth all the time and effort. I'd rather we cut our loses and sold him this summer. No point in sticking around with a player that seemingly sin't good enough to get a game over Young and Valencia and that hardly doesn't feature at cardiff aswell. Seems like he was massively overhyped and Fergie took the bait...
I see alot of people mentioning he is still young and that he has still time to become a great player for us. But really feck this, if your 21 you are not that that young anymore, if he was 18 or something I'd agree. But if he doesn't drastically improve within the next 2 years he should be considered a total failure. There are many younger who show alot more promise than Zaha...
Kind off have to agree with SpeakTruth, we bought a Championship star but not a great player. He dominated that competition last year because the combination of technique and physicality he had was a good combination to have in that competition versus teams with defenders and midfielders who struggle to deal with that. In the PL this doesn't work, he can't get away with technical mistakes anymore, he can't get past his man anymore because he is stronger, faster and longer than them and he generally looks like an uneffective player. On top of that it seems he has a poor mentality aswell, which just makes him a handfull and in the end his potential is not that great that he is worth all the trouble of trying to make him a good footballer.
Imo we have bigger fish to fry than Zaha, and he just feels like an unnescarry distartaction that really ain't worth all the time and effort. I'd rather we cut our loses and sold him this summer. No point in sticking around with a player that seemingly sin't good enough to get a game over Young and Valencia and that hardly doesn't feature at cardiff aswell. Seems like he was massively overhyped and Fergie took the bait...
Not everyone deserves a chance at United. I don't deserve a season to show whether I can play for United or not. Perhaps Moyes never thought he was up to the standard, and would have never bought him if his decision.
Zaha has hardly altered his opinion while on loan either.
We're not in a postion anymore that we can give players who aren't good enough 60 games to prove that they aren't good enough.
Why do we always have to give time to everybody ? We're in a situation right now that we need actualy preformers and no people with possible potential that just need time and patience, we have to many of those kind of players and not enough performers. I only want to stick around with the ones that really do show some potential like Pereira, Powell and januzaj and who really are still young and not 21 (approaching 22).
Disagree. Managers' and players' roles are totally different. Zaha has only played 2 games for us and SAF saw something in him to pay such a fee. He deserves more chances. If he doesn't work out, so be it. But to discard him so quickly on just Moyes say-so is ridiculous.
Regardless of the age of players etc..Has this manager proved he can get our team playing to their potential? Or as the attacking force we were for the past few seasons? One season is more than enough time to see if he is capable of doing this.
Very harsh conclusion. He carried Crystal Palace to the premier league, if it wasn't for him they wouldn't be here right now. Talented player who needs more time. Simple as that. There is no reason we should be concluding he isn't good enough for this club already. He was one of our stand-out players during our pre-season. Kid just lost a bit of confidence, we should have loaned him out quicker. Playing for a club like Cardiff does not really help the situation either to be fair to him.
The negativity of this disastrous season is simply overflowing.
Give this guy time for feck sakes. If he does get sorted he will be immense. He's huge, fast as hell and can dribble with flair.
And you can't read too too much into Ole not starting him all the time. They are trying to stay up and play a conservative games. Zaha is hardly conservative and players like him that try and beat players lose the ball often.
Zaha needs some confidence. Let's see what happens in the upcoming preseason and hopefully he goes out on loan to a decent club.
Give this guy time for feck sakes. If he does get sorted he will be immense. He's huge, fast as hell and can dribble with flair.
And you can't read too too much into Ole not starting him all the time. They are trying to stay up and play a conservative games. Zaha is hardly conservative and players like him that try and beat players lose the ball often.
Zaha needs some confidence. Let's see what happens in the upcoming preseason and hopefully he goes out on loan to a decent club.
So cos Moyes thinks one of the best English U21 players is not good enough for us but SAF does, we should sell him after playing 2 games? What standard are you referring to? This was the manager who bought Fellaini to solve our midfield problems.
Yes, Zaha hasn't lit up the world out on loan, and Moyes didn't sign him, but then he didn't join us to play for Moyes either. Zaha deserves another season to prove if he's good enough.
Fair point. But some players do need more time than others. Remember when Evra and Vidic were signed? They came from other leagues and needed at least half a season playing regularly to get used to our club.
And why is it such an issue that Zaha is 22? He's still young. And I'm not saying give him 60 games, just more than a few months with a manager who would give him a fair chance.
Moyes wouldn't play him for whatever reason. Some say his attitude, Moyes didn't sign him etc. Either way he won't play him.Where does this idea come from?
This is a perfectly reasonable post. Much better than the borderline hyperbolic schoolyard (anti-)fanfic effort. You seem to think he's not good enough to take his Palace form to the Premiership, I think it's a confidence issue. Guess time will tell, mate.
Given that his game completely revolves around his ability to take people on, it kinda does.
Given that his game completely revolves around his ability to take people on, it kinda does.
Did anyone actually watch the Palace Vs. Cardiff game? Zaha made the space to get his cross in on a number of occasions and had a mixed bag with his delivery. A couple of poor ones, a couple of decent ones including one coming inside with his left foot.
He had less success when he switched to the left a number of times. The swap was I presume with Daehli, only he was 95% of the game in the middle third so nobody really replaced Zaha on the side he was on. This is one of the main problems Cardiff had as Zaha was the only one offering width. On the other side of the pitch it was congested with nobody making a run out wide so it was easy for Palace's back four to stick close together as a unit
Zaha also had a number of good passes in the buildup of Cardiff's few positive attacking moves. The general pattern of Cardiff's play was another of the problems. Several times Zaha or Daelhi were in space for a short pass to get them into a good area to hurt the opposition and the likes of Jordan Mutch or Theophile Catherine ignored them and launched the ball 35 yards towards Kenwyne Jones instead. They had little to no success with the direct play.
Overall Zaha was average with a couple of good moments and a couple of frustrating ones. He wasn't poor and neither was he of the standard we'd want our wingers playing here. Valencia nor Young fit that criteria either so its not the end of the world that Zaha didnt manage it.
He still needs to work on his crossing consistancy and the spaces he moves into when he wants a pass, its not the best. He and Daehli too are being used poorly. Ole's tactics look shocking.
He had less success when he switched to the left a number of times. The swap was I presume with Daehli, only he was 95% of the game in the middle third so nobody really replaced Zaha on the side he was on. This is one of the main problems Cardiff had as Zaha was the only one offering width. On the other side of the pitch it was congested with nobody making a run out wide so it was easy for Palace's back four to stick close together as a unit
Zaha also had a number of good passes in the buildup of Cardiff's few positive attacking moves. The general pattern of Cardiff's play was another of the problems. Several times Zaha or Daelhi were in space for a short pass to get them into a good area to hurt the opposition and the likes of Jordan Mutch or Theophile Catherine ignored them and launched the ball 35 yards towards Kenwyne Jones instead. They had little to no success with the direct play.
Overall Zaha was average with a couple of good moments and a couple of frustrating ones. He wasn't poor and neither was he of the standard we'd want our wingers playing here. Valencia nor Young fit that criteria either so its not the end of the world that Zaha didnt manage it.
He still needs to work on his crossing consistancy and the spaces he moves into when he wants a pass, its not the best. He and Daehli too are being used poorly. Ole's tactics look shocking.
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