I won't call it mismanagement either but it struck me as quite bizarre that he hardly featured for us after that in other similar situations.
Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace
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I won't call it mismanagement either but it struck me as quite bizarre that he hardly featured for us after that in other similar situations.
And why is that? Since you claimed you know nothing about what goes on in training.
What else did he tell you?
Exactly. I know nothing about what goes on in training and neither do you. The only difference between us is that I'm not claiming I know better than the manager of Manchester United and his coaching staff about the capabilities of a player.
To look away tomorrow night when we're playing Bayern...............
When did I claim I know better? @Ekeke posted that Moyes might be waiting for Zaha to get some more minutes under his belt in the PL before he brings him back. You replied that you think that he will be shipped off. Uptil there it was your opinion on what Moyes might be doing which was fine. But then you added, "Rightly". How do you know it would be right if you don't have the first clue of what he is doing in training? People can easily say that the rumors about Moyes' daughter and Zaha are true and he is using this personal agenda to drive Zaha out of the club. Would you be able to counter that?
Think you've got the wrong Moyes. The real one would have told you that hopefully we'll get a decent result
What on earth are you going on about now?
You claimed Moyes was mismanaging Zaha, which to any sane person would infer you knew better than Moyes how he should be managed.
If you're going to quote me, quote me in full. "Rightly" was followed by "in my view". "In my view" means "in my opinion". It's still therefore only an opinion.
And please don't bring stupid non-issues like Moyes' daughter into it. This discussion is about Zaha as a player, nothing else
No, he would have said we'll aspire to hopefully get a decent result
So why have you so readily dismissed him when he's an obvious talent and still a very young player?
Find me a quote where I said Moyes is mismanaging Zaha. Here is my quote which you either did not see or conveniently forgot to spout some nonsense. I have noticed you have a tendency to put words in people's mouth. You tried the same thing earlier in a different thread which I called you out on.
As far as you adding the "in my opinion" clause at the end of that sentence, let me add mine. "In my opinion" Moyes is having a personal agenda to drag Zaha out of the club. See, it's my opinion. Therefore I can say whatever I want!
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Here here! He has no legs to stand on in this debate
What has Zaha done to earn games at United? Tell me. He's been rank average whenever he's played for us, and been rank average whenever he's played for the majestic Cardiff. He hasn't paid his dues.
Excuse me? He's barely kicked a ball at United. He made Cardiff's late equaliser today. Have you even seen him at Cardiff? He's had some bright moments. Skip to 37 seconds in and tell me how 'rank average' that looks.
It will be tough for Moyes to decide between several loan returnees but I think zaha will stay. I think Moyes made a mistake in not giving him any chances early on in the season. He had a good pre season tour and it wouldn't have harmed the player to get a few run ins to add to a good pre season.
Ask Cardiff fans how good he's looked
He's been a liability. He can't be trusted to keep the ball, most of his 'amazing' skills/tricks fail, his end product is iffy and he is defensively unreliable. Just what I want in a Manchester Untied winger.And BTW, having "a few bright moments" in a loan spell is just that - rank average. Puncheon and Bolasie at Palace have looked far better PL wingers than him this year...and that's saying something.
Ask Cardiff fans how good he's looked
He is a 20 year old in his first season for us in the PL. You are ready to give a manager the benefit of the doubt despite a disastrous campaign because of this being his first season here but are unwilling to do so for a young player who has hardly had the chance to prove himself here. Double standards right there.
If he had showed the professionalism and potential of a United winger he wouldn't be at Cardiff right now.
I'm willing to give Zaha the benefit of the doubt it he earns his chance at Cardiff through hard work, which he has obviously failed to do. It isn't double standards; you work hard, you get a fair shot - Zaha has not done that, so he hasn't earned a shot.
If he gets back to United, works his arse off, impresses in pre-season without a squeak of unprofessionalism, and we hear about a changed attitude, then sure, give him a chance. Doubt that will happen on current evidence though, since even Holloway who he excellened under seemed less than convinced by his professionalism.
Ask Cardiff fans how good he's looked
And BTW, having "a few bright moments" in a loan spell is just that - rank average. Puncheon and Bolasie at Palace have looked far better PL wingers than him this year...and that's saying something.
The kid has massive talent. He is very raw but some of you are dismissing him way too fast. Fergie of old loved players like this. Moyes was full of praise for Zaha after preseason and even prematurely said he'd feature this season. After that he basically didn't get a chance when Moyes was changing lineups every game and looking at all our players. A lot is said about his so-called defensive frailties but I see him hustling for the ball every time he's not in possession of it. The vid I posted has a few good bits of him tracking back pretty aggressively. Time will tell.
You know this how?
Because literally every report emanating from Palace and now United has said he's lazy in training and unreliable.
Just like the reports could be
If it's true that Zaha will be gone this season, it could either be that Moyes doesn't see Zaha in his plans or maybe Zaha just hasn't displayed the right attitude in training to deserve a chance. He's even struggling to get game time at Cardiff so that may tell you something.
Can you provide one such source or erm 'report' from United to back this up?
How often do £15m English United players end up on loan if they work hard and try to earn a shot in training? Moyes has shown he'll give young, talented players who work hard a chance(Adnan), so clearly Zaha has not impressed.
It really doesn't. Daeli is not starting games either. Ole has changed his tactics and reverted to the older and more experienced players to start games. Its crunch time at Cardiff
How do you know he has not shown professionalism? Through tabloid tales? Anything to prove your point I guess. If he actually did something silly a couple of times, it's not like any other people in our squad have been immune to that. Cleverley and Smalling have done some stupid things recently as well. You can claim that he is not good enough and you are entitled to that opinion of yours but to claim he is not working hard enough is presumptuous.
Can I say the same about Moyes, that he is not working hard enough? I cannot and should not 'cause I don't have the first clue about it. But I can claim that he is not right for the job in my opinion.
Often. Lukaku is perhaps the best young striker in the world and hes on loan. Welbeck, Cleverley and Powell were sent on loan. Beckham was loaned
Source please? A United report about his laziness and lack of professionalism. Adnan started getting a shitload of game time while he was in contract negotiations. He's a talented lad and deserves his chance but its no coincidence he started getting games when he did. We couldn't afford to do another Pogba
Maybe he'll turn out ok - maybe I've misjudged him, how do I know? All I know is on every bit of evidence he's provided so far he's come up short of the standard required at United. Hopefully he'll turn it around, so we won't have wasted 15m, but I doubt it.
All 3 excelled on loan. Unlike Zaha.
He certainly hasnt looked great on loan at Cardiff. In the mean time Ashley Young hasnt looked great in the first team. If Young has made it here somehow, how can Zaha not?
The fact he wasn't given a chance despite
Young and Valencia being shite.
Nani being injured.
was always ridiculous. The ardent Moyes supporters don't like this being pointed out unfortunately.
Young and Valencia being shite.
Nani being injured.
was always ridiculous. The ardent Moyes supporters don't like this being pointed out unfortunately.
That's my point. You can at least opine that you don't find him to be United standard and I have no qualms with that. I too have my reservations. But saying he does not "work hard" and thus has not paid his dues is unfair on the kid. We know nothing about how much effort he puts in in training.
He just got loaned FFS. Its only four months since the last transfer window. The season is not even over yet. He was heavily involved in Cardiff's third yesterday btw. Still waiting on that 'report'
edit: @Lu Tze Im going to assume your reports of laziness and unprofessionalism at United are about as shallow/unreliable as the rumors about Zaha and Moyes daughter. Good day sir
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Lazy, judgemental nonsense.
Did it occur to you tat maybe, just maybe, Zaha has a long way to go to establish himself in the best XI of any Premier League club, never mind one trying to compete at the top end of the table?
Is it also possible that people have formed this opinion without feeling any need to link it to whether or not Moyes is the right man to take over from Fergie?
Was just going to post what Pogue posted. Perhaps Zaha just hasn't been good enough in training to warrant first team appearances. I think the notion that Moyes doesn't give Zaha chances (and by extension, young players at United) has been disproved by the number of appearances Januzaj has had. Clearly there are differences between what Januzaj and Zaha are showing in training. One has impressed Moyes, the other hasn't.
The appearances Januzaj has had is more likely to hinder Zaha than to show he'd get chances since they play in the same position and playing 2 young wingers is a lot less likely than giving the chance to one at a time.
It's not as though we need to make assumptions about training either. We've seen both of them in reserve games and playing first team football (Januzaj for United, Zaha for Cardiff). The gulf in maturity, composure and footballing intelligence between them is enormous. This is something that both Moyes and Solskjaer have both picked up on, as far as Zaha is concerned. So the idea that he's being unfairly persecuted by the United manager is being proven more and more ridiculous with each game he starts on the bench for Cardiff.
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