Why CR7 Should be Talked About as the GOAT

Enigma_87 said:
Harsh probably. Depends on how you tier them.

How so? Pele has won pretty much everything at club level with 3 WC's to boot in an era where the Brazilian championship was as good if not better than European leagues.


There's literally tons of highlights and full matches on youtube, dailymotion, 101 great goals and so forth for Pele. Especially against European opposition you can find his 200 goals or so and decent amount of highlights. Same goes for Maradona and even more.

Pele was a player that had simply no weakness and for me along with his dominance on every stage he played on is the best. Then come of course Maradona, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Messi etc.

When you watch him you can see he is so far ahead of his peers, just like Messi is now sweeping all the records and highlights.

There are pre-war players that you can doubt whether all the "fairy tales" about them are true, but with Pele you will find plenty of videos to back his credentials up.
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You have to take into consideration that Pele and to a slightly lesser extent Maradona, played during an era when football wasn't properly internationalized. Pele spent his entire career at one club and Maradona, despite moving around, never faced the sort of quality that we see in the present, where footballers from all walks of life are playing in the very best leagues. Their club careers were quite homogenous in that regard. If both played today they would be considered world class but not at GOAT level they are remembered by. As for CR7 - he is criminally underrated by people who can't seem to dislodge the ghosts players past. He and Messi are imo quite comfortably the two best footballers ever because they have demonstrated it for an unprecedented, protracted period of time during a period when the quality and competition in football have been the most intense.
 
I don't think people understand what Cristiano means for Portugal and what he's done.

It's true that he hasn't had one incredible tournament like Platini, Maradona or Eusébio did. He has never put the whole team on his back for an entire tournament. But he's done it an incredible amount of times in individual games in separate tournaments. With Cristiano it's how consistently good he's been. Portugal isn't Brazil, France or Argentina, getting to the freaking tournament means we've done well already historically. People forget this because before Ronaldo we had our golden generation. We've been to more tournaments since Ronaldo has been around than in our entire history before. He put two great performances and scored 12 years apart to send us to our two ever finals. From the pain and tears of 2004, the death of our golden generation in 2006, falling short in 2010 and 2012 against the greatest spanish side of all time through an offside goal and penalties, after 2014 many believed we would return to our pre-1998 days, this generation was done, we had missed our opportunity. In 2016 he's not in his prime and he stepped up as a leader. And the many who geniunely hate him (and here on the Caf they're always around) will always put him down for it, but what he's done in 2016 will never be forgotten. Winning the Euros was just the dream ending, it was like a movie.

It's true that he's been underwhelming at World Cups, even though reasons for that were out of his control, but the reason people give such an important role in these discussions to the World Cup is because it used to be the biggest stage in World football. That's not the case anymore. The biggest stage in world football is from the quarters forward of the Champions League and there he's outperformed everybody. He's put up better performances than everyone else for longer than everyone else and has more than double of the goals than anyone else.
 
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Champagne Football said:
I think it's fair to say that there are 4 players who you can put in the GOAT box and you can argue all day who was best but at the end of the day they all deserve to be there

Messi/CR7/Maradona/Pele

Fair play to CR7 for breaking into that elite group when Messi was clearly on another planet to him about 5 years ago. But Messi has been on the wane for a while now as CR7 goes from strength to strength while breaking every record in the game along the way while winning trophy after trophy....It's completely brain-dead so say a GOAT needs to win a world cup like Maradona or Pele because the Champions League has been the elite competition of world football for probably the past 15 years where as in the days of Maradona and Pele it was obviously the world cup.
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Cruyff and Beckenbauer are definitely in upper tier than CR7.

I'd have Brazilian Ronaldo and Di Stefano above him as well.

Then is the next tier along with Best, Eusebio, Muller, etc..
 
If Ronnie scores 3 goals tomorrow and wins back to back CL titles, he'll be up there.
 
Raoul said:
You have to take into consideration that Pele and to a slightly lesser extent Maradona, played during an era when football wasn't properly internationalized. Pele spent his entire career at one club and Maradona, despite moving around, never faced the sort of quality that we see in the present, where footballers from all walks of life are playing in the very best leagues. Their club careers were quite homogenous in that regard. If both played today they would be considered world class but not at GOAT level they are remembered by. As for CR7 - he is criminally underrated by people who can't seem to dislodge the ghosts players past. He and Messi are imo quite comfortably the two best footballers ever because they have demonstrated it for an unprecedented, protracted period of time during a period when the quality and competition in football have been the most intense.
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Disagree. Pele's Santos were touring all over the world. Pele himself had scored and played against the top European sides over and over again. They even played and traveled in much more congested manner(even 5 games in a week), compared to Messi and Ronaldo.



When Pele played on international level he shone the brightest, same can be said about Maradona, which makes that argument a bit void. Back then the players never received the same protection like Ronaldo and Messi receive nowadays.

People rave at Messi and Ronaldo sweeping back to back Ballon D'ors, but look at the players nominated in 1970 for example when Pele and his Brazilian peers didn't even get rated: Muller, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Moore, Rivera, Mazzola, Eusebio, Facchetti - some of the biggest names in their respective positions.

You can't have Ronaldo in that top tier given his international performances, compared to what Pele/Maradona did at the same stage.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Cruyff and Beckenbauer are definitely in upper tier than CR7.

I'd have Brazilian Ronaldo and Di Stefano above him as well.

Then is the next tier along with Best, Eusebio, Muller, etc..
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Not even Benfica fans put him alongside Eusébio these days and Cristiano literally gave them the middle finger whilst Eusébio is their biggest legend
 
Enigma_87 said:
Cruyff and Beckenbauer are definitely in upper tier than CR7.

I'd have Brazilian Ronaldo and Di Stefano above him as well.

Then is the next tier along with Best, Eusebio, Muller, etc..
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In your opinion. Many would disagree.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Disagree. Pele's Santos were touring all over the world. Pele himself had scored and played against the top European sides over and over again. They even played and traveled in much more congested manner(even 5 games in a week), compared to Messi and Ronaldo.



When Pele played on international level he shone the brightest, same can be said about Maradona, which makes that argument a bit void. Back then the players never received the same protection like Ronaldo and Messi receive nowadays.

People rave at Messi and Ronaldo sweeping back to back Ballon D'ors, but look at the players nominated in 1970 for example when Pele and his Brazilian peers didn't even get rated: Muller, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Moore, Rivera, Mazzola, Eusebio, Facchetti - some of the biggest names in their respective positions.

You can't have Ronaldo in that top tier given his international performances, compared to what Pele/Maradona did at the same stage.
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Again, no one is attempting to minimize what Pele and Maradona have done. They are two of the best ever. They just happened to play the game at a time when domestic league players were generally from the host country where the league was operating, which minimized the overall quality of the leagues (including Italy and Spain at the time). Not a big deal as both players could only play the cards they were dealt and did brilliantly.

In terms of international comps, I don't really rate them as highly as how well a player has performed for a protracted period of time against top notch opposition. Ronaldo has proven over and over again from Portugal to England to Spain that he not only excels against top quality opposition, but he has done it over a long period of time by adapting his game to maximize performances. His work ethic and training commitment are also pretty well documented (unlike others). BTW, I'm not a Ronaldo fanboy. I actually think Messi may be the GOAT, but just making the case for Ronny since this is a CR7 thread.
 
Treble said:
In your opinion. Many would disagree.
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Probably, however goalscoring records are not something new really. 40 years ago Eusebio and Muller were breaking records for fun and scoring some crucial goals at the biggest stage.

You'd struggle to find players who left such long lasting effect on football tho like Cruyff and der Kaiser left long after they retired.
Peyroteo said:
Not even Benfica fans put him alongside Eusébio these days and Cristiano literally gave them the middle finger whilst Eusébio is their biggest legend
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Ronaldo is not the most likeable chap so he doesn't do himself a lot of favors sometimes.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Probably, however goalscoring records are not something new really. 40 years ago Eusebio and Muller were breaking records for fun and scoring some crucial goals at the biggest stage.

You'd struggle to find players who left such long lasting effect on football tho like Cruyff and der Kaiser left long after they retired.

Ronaldo is not the most likeable chap so he doesn't do himself a lot of favors sometimes.
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Ronaldo is not only about goals though. That's a bad mistake. Besides, it's one thing to score a goal per game when you play 35-40 games per season, and it is quite another thing to score a goal per game when you play 55 games. And to do it for 6 consecutive seasons. And to have most assists in the CL as well. Ronaldo is not the modern version of Müller who was a great player nonetheless.
 
Raoul said:
Again, no one is attempting to minimize what Pele and Maradona have done. They are two of the best ever. They just happened to play the game at a time when domestic league players were generally from the host country where the league was operating, which minimized the overall quality of the leagues (including Italy and Spain at the time). Not a big deal as both players could only play the cards they were dealt and did brilliantly.
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Depends at how you are looking at it mate. A more even quality spread throughout the teams makes it more competitive than 2 top teams far ahead of the pack. But then again, Pele didn't play only in South America, but consistently faced some of the best defenders in the game like Kaiser, Facchetti and the likes. His international record is really impeccable. If someone would question the level of those players against the very top opposition it should be Messi and Ronaldo rather than Maradona and Pele tbh, especially outside their Real/Barca setups.
Raoul said:
In terms of international comps, I don't really rate them as highly as how well a player has performed for a protracted period of time against top notch opposition. Ronaldo has proven over and over again from Portugal to England to Spain that he not only excels against top quality opposition, but he has done it over a long period of time by adapting his game to maximize performances. His work ethic and training commitment are also pretty well documented (unlike others). BTW, I'm not a Ronaldo fanboy. I actually think Messi may be the GOAT, but just making the case for Ronny since this is a CR7 thread.
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It has to be both for me, not only one or the other. Generally Real and Barca would piss all over the other 16-17 teams in La Liga(minus Atletico) and will have 3-4 tough opponents in the CL, which if you spread it across 3 world cups where Pele took part is generally similar numbers.

Ronaldo international record is really poor which puts blemish on his resume. Playing with bums in the NT which is often used as an excuse, but it's not like Maradona played with 11 world beaters in 86'.
 
It's the consistency of both Ronaldo and Messi that is frightening. Maradona skill wise was on a different level imo, his performances at 86 world cup, still to this day I haven't seen better at a major tournament.Depends which way you look at it, Maradona on his day, nobody touches him, but he never had the consistency that the other 2 have. I think as time progresses history will probably define Messi and Ronaldo as the 2 best of all time. I'd personally have Messi just ahead but totally understand people having Ronnie as their no 1.
 
Treble said:
Ronaldo is not only about goals though. That's a bad mistake. Besides, it's one thing to score a goal per game when you play 35-40 games per season, and it is quite another thing to score a goal per game when you play 55 games. And to do it for 6 consecutive seasons. And to have most assists in the CL as well. Ronaldo is not the modern version of Müller who was a great player nonetheless.
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Yeah make no mistake, I've not degraded him to a pure goalscorer, just the numbers are always cited as prime reason to enter the GOAT debates for him.
 
Im stating the obvious here but there will never be universal agreement regarding GOAT etc.
For me its Pele then Maradona and then Messi, Cryuff, CR, Ronaldo 9, Best, Di Stefano in another group below Pele and Maradona.
 
I think that Maradona may be the most influent footballler in the history of the game, in the sense that most of the players grew up watching him. Guys like Ronaldo9, Ronaldinho, Lampard and all these greats grew up watching him. Even Messi said with joy that he has been able to watch him live when he played for Newell's old Boys.

And Cristiano Ronaldo may be the most influent playerin this generation, over Messi. His celebrations, his moves, his free kicks...he's a legend of the game for sure.


But he's not even close to what Maradona could do with not only a football, but anything with a round shape. He was an alien. And still being an alien now.



 
Cristiano will be one of those players up there. But like Messi, he still has a lot to do on the international scene. Pele & Maradona just blow those 2 out of the water as both Maradona & Pele excelled in international & club football.
 
Go watch the last Clasico if you want to know why Lionel Messi plays on a level no other pro footballer has ever reached.


 
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Peyroteo said:
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That kinda backs up how I remember the match tbh. He was good in the first half and terrorized Essien at times and scored a great header. But he faded pretty badly and of course missed the penalty in the shootout. Poor is probably harsh but I wouldn't class that as a great performance from him.
 
IFC 1905 said:
He is top 5 behind messi, pele, Maradona, three geniuses of the game.

And then, he is behind di Stefano too IMO.

He's an incredible goalscorer. A legendary one. But the three previously mentioned are capable of producing a legendary moment or winning a match out of nothing. Like the famous goal vs England or the goal against Bilbao at the copa del rey final.
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Just wondering when I read comments like this, how many of Pele's and di Stefano's games did you watch? Or did you see one Youtube video that you liked, and then assume that they did that every day?
 
Peyroteo said:
I don't think people understand what Cristiano means for Portugal and what he's done.

It's true that he hasn't had one incredible tournament like Platini, Maradona or Eusébio did. He has never put the whole team on his back for an entire tournament. But he's done it an incredible amount of times in individual games in separate tournaments. With Cristiano it's how consistently good he's been. Portugal isn't Brazil, France or Argentina, getting to the freaking tournament means we've done well already historically. People forget this because before Ronaldo we had our golden generation. We've been to more tournaments since Ronaldo has been around than in our entire history before. He put two great performances and scored 12 years apart to send us to our two ever finals. From the pain and tears of 2004, the death of our golden generation in 2006, falling short in 2010 and 2012 against the greatest spanish side of all time through an offside goal and penalties, after 2014 many believed we would return to our pre-1998 days, this generation was done, we had missed our opportunity. In 2016 he's not in his prime and he stepped up as a leader. And the many who geniunely hate him (and here on the Caf they're always around) will always put him down for it, but what he's done in 2016 will never be forgotten. Winning the Euros was just the dream ending, it was like a movie.

It's true that he's been underwhelming at World Cups, even though reasons for that were out of his control, but the reason people give such an important role in these discussions to the World Cup is because it used to be the biggest stage in World football. That's not the case anymore. The biggest stage in world football is from the quarters forward of the Champions League and there he's outperformed everybody. He's put up better performances than everyone else for longer than everyone else and has more than double of the goals than anyone else.
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Well said
 
He is not even top 20 of all time according to some here, but he is very likely to beat the GOAT (Messi that is, during his peak too) 5 times as the best player of the year. So I guess he is strong contender for greatest player of the generation at the very least.
 
He is the best player. If I want to win 1 match of football and I can pick Messi or Ronaldo, it's Ronaldo.
 
Peyroteo said:
I don't think people understand what Cristiano means for Portugal and what he's done.

It's true that he hasn't had one incredible tournament like Platini, Maradona or Eusébio did. He has never put the whole team on his back for an entire tournament. But he's done it an incredible amount of times in individual games in separate tournaments. With Cristiano it's how consistently good he's been. Portugal isn't Brazil, France or Argentina, getting to the freaking tournament means we've done well already historically. People forget this because before Ronaldo we had our golden generation. We've been to more tournaments since Ronaldo has been around than in our entire history before. He put two great performances and scored 12 years apart to send us to our two ever finals. From the pain and tears of 2004, the death of our golden generation in 2006, falling short in 2010 and 2012 against the greatest spanish side of all time through an offside goal and penalties, after 2014 many believed we would return to our pre-1998 days, this generation was done, we had missed our opportunity. In 2016 he's not in his prime and he stepped up as a leader. And the many who geniunely hate him (and here on the Caf they're always around) will always put him down for it, but what he's done in 2016 will never be forgotten. Winning the Euros was just the dream ending, it was like a movie.

It's true that he's been underwhelming at World Cups, even though reasons for that were out of his control, but the reason people give such an important role in these discussions to the World Cup is because it used to be the biggest stage in World football. That's not the case anymore. The biggest stage in world football is from the quarters forward of the Champions League and there he's outperformed everybody. He's put up better performances than everyone else for longer than everyone else and has more than double of the goals than anyone else.
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Eder was the one who won you lot the Euros.

He's the real Portuguese hero. Ronaldo was fortunate to be in the same team as him.
 
Arruda said:
I've always been on the camp who thinks he's nowhere near Messi, let alone in a GOAT discussion (a natural conclusion of the first premise).

Yet, from a base point of utterly disliking him a while ago, my admiration towards him grows immensely as time goes by. The way he perseveres, the way he keeps himself in this discussion (to many people, myself not included), his consistency, it challenges my own convictions. At one point I thought Messi was so far ahead that Ronaldo would himself inevitably lose some motivation. Nah, he kept coming back. Not to Messi level, but to better himself constantly, and at the end of the day, his results speak volumes. Without the same talent, he reaches extraordinarily close, and who knows, is perfectly capable of surpassing the GOAT in individual and collective accolades.

That makes him uniquely special in my eyes. Not a GOAT, not in the tier below, but in a unique parallel tier, his own Universe. Being second best isn't easy. By pure denial, he doesn't acknowledge that to be the true, keeps overcoming extraordinary challenges (anyone in 2012 believed he could equal Messi in Ballon d'Or?), and surprises everyone everytime.
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Well said.
 
sizzling sausages said:
That kinda backs up how I remember the match tbh. He was good in the first half and terrorized Essien at times and scored a great header. But he faded pretty badly and of course missed the penalty in the shootout. Poor is probably harsh but I wouldn't class that as a great performance from him.
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Well the fans voted him as man of the match. Classing that performance as poor is very harsh. I agree with you that in the last 3 CL finals he's done nothing special though.
 
Maradona. Won the ball deep in defence, carried it through midfield, took on any number of defenders, and scored. He was a #10 and a box-to-box midfielder all in one.
 
IFC 1905 said:
I think that Maradona may be the most influent footballler in the history of the game, in the sense that most of the players grew up watching him. Guys like Ronaldo9, Ronaldinho, Lampard and all these greats grew up watching him. Even Messi said with joy that he has been able to watch him live when he played for Newell's old Boys.

And Cristiano Ronaldo may be the most influent playerin this generation, over Messi. His celebrations, his moves, his free kicks...he's a legend of the game for sure.


But he's not even close to what Maradona could do with not only a football, but anything with a round shape. He was an alien. And still being an alien now.
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I would disagree with that. Pele's influence was massive. I remember as a kid he was the one footballer the entire world knew. Muhammed Ali was arguably the worlds most famous sportsman ever and Pele was during that period pretty much just as famous apart from in the US where his profile wasnt as big. However he was still used as the figure head when the US tried its 1st big pro football league in the 70's and even before he arrived Americans knew who he was. The US at that time especially was particularly disinterested in football which makes it even more remarkable that he was a household name there. 3 world cup wins and all the publicity that went with that during a time when the WC was the absolute biggest game in football made him an absolute world superstar and then add in the publicity world wide over the 1000 goals thing. His influence on football players was huge, trouble is that time dilutes memories as each successive generation slowly forgets the past and celebrates their own hero's.
I remember clearly how huge a name he was and the excitement he generated whenever a WC came along or an exhibition match took place. Pele was a huge drawcard at 4 world cups.
Maradona never had that level of influence.
 
Peyroteo said:
Well the fans voted him as man of the match. Classing that performance as poor is very harsh. I agree with you that in the last 3 CL finals he's done nothing special though.
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Yeah, poor is going overboard. He was decent to good, but it was far from one of his more memorable performances that season. My main point was that the poster I was responding to who claimed Ronaldo would make sure his team wouldn't lose a final and always puts in a performance was completely wrong. He's more often than not failed to show up in finals.
 
TonyMarshall said:
Eder was the one who won you lot the Euros. He's the real Portuguese hero.
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I'm not going to be drawn into the debate between you two, but it's actually incredible how little credit (at least in here) Eder gets for that goal. personally, I find it a bit disrespectful. I may be wrong, but I think it's the first time I've ever seen a player scoring the winning goal in final and the absent player getting the most (if not all) credit for winning.

obviously, I wasn't on caf in 1999., but I can't imagine Solskjaer and Sheringham scoring winning goals, only for us to talk about our sidelined captain for next few days and how he inspired us to the most incredible comeback in CL history.

it's actually incredible how obsessed we've become with Messi and Ronaldo. I bet it would be the same If Argentina won against Germany; Messi gets injured, Zabaleta scores two shit goals for example and in these discussions it would all be about Messi again. it's crazy.
 
Arruda said:
I've always been on the camp who thinks he's nowhere near Messi, let alone in a GOAT discussion (a natural conclusion of the first premise).

Yet, from a base point of utterly disliking him a while ago, my admiration towards him grows immensely as time goes by. The way he perseveres, the way he keeps himself in this discussion (to many people, myself not included), his consistency, it challenges my own convictions. At one point I thought Messi was so far ahead that Ronaldo would himself inevitably lose some motivation. Nah, he kept coming back. Not to Messi level, but to better himself constantly, and at the end of the day, his results speak volumes. Without the same talent, he reaches extraordinarily close, and who knows, is perfectly capable of surpassing the GOAT in individual and collective accolades.

That makes him uniquely special in my eyes. Not a GOAT, not in the tier below, but in a unique parallel tier, his own Universe. Being second best isn't easy. By pure denial, he doesn't acknowledge that to be the true, keeps overcoming extraordinary challenges (anyone in 2012 believed he could equal Messi in Ballon d'Or?), and surprises everyone everytime.
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Brilliantly put. I share your view that he is nowhere near Messi and by extension, not a contender of GOAT. I would even go further to suggest that history ultimately will remember him as the Salieri to Messi's Mozart. But like you say, One cannot help but admire how he keeps himself in that discussion, how he keeps coming back and finding ways to put himself up there. His mentality and work ethic are maybe unparalleled by any sportsman, let alone footballer.
 
Theonas said:
Brilliantly put. I share your view that he is nowhere near Messi and by extension, not a contender of GOAT. I would even go further to suggest that history ultimately will remember him as the Salieri to Messi's Mozart. But like you say, One cannot help but admire how he keeps himself in that discussion, how he keeps coming back and finding ways to put himself up there. His mentality and work ethic are maybe unparalleled by any sportsman, let alone footballer.
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oh come on, seriously? whats with the over exaggeration all the time. I like Ronaldo, Im a fan, I think he is up there close to messi but the mentality and work ethic thing... seriously. He absolutely has a massive work ethic and mentality but there have been plenty of other sports people and footballers who have also exhibited similar. Just stop with the over the top stuff please.
 
Cristiano isn't top 5

1-Pelé
2-Maradona
3-Messi
4-Ronaldo (BR)
5-Di Stefano

Come on, if your life is on the line there's no way you pick Cristiano ahead of Messi or Ronaldo Fenomeno to win a match. He's the one that depends most on his team mates to put him through in front of the keeper. If ge's not provided elite service his lanky ass just gets sandwiched by the two banks of four and has minimal impact with his back to goal.
 
In modern football, international tournaments are a poor barometer for comparisons. Club football is so far ahead at the moment. I think CR7 (and Messi) are unfairly judged relative to Maradona and Pele when the World Cup was the pinnacle.
 
The guys a beast. Could be argued he is the greatest, I do not think he is, but certainly he is in the top ten.
 
Raoul said:
Again, no one is attempting to minimize what Pele and Maradona have done. They are two of the best ever. They just happened to play the game at a time when domestic league players were generally from the host country where the league was operating, which minimized the overall quality of the leagues (including Italy and Spain at the time). Not a big deal as both players could only play the cards they were dealt and did brilliantly.

In terms of international comps, I don't really rate them as highly as how well a player has performed for a protracted period of time against top notch opposition. Ronaldo has proven over and over again from Portugal to England to Spain that he not only excels against top quality opposition, but he has done it over a long period of time by adapting his game to maximize performances. His work ethic and training commitment are also pretty well documented (unlike others). BTW, I'm not a Ronaldo fanboy. I actually think Messi may be the GOAT, but just making the case for Ronny since this is a CR7 thread.
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This is a really solid argument. I mean the bit where you compared the quality of the leagues for the different eras.
 
How could you possibly choose? But Ronaldo II probably has as good a claim as any. How many have watched every match of Pele and Maradona?

Or Maldini? Why Pele and Maradona? The greatest player is probably a defender. And by 'probably' I drunkenly mean you're all wrong. The greatest is actually Zidane and I'll headbutt anyone who disagrees.

But really, the sport is only a century and a bit old. Of all time? Who remembers the greatest Byzantine charioteer?
 
Raoul said:
You have to take into consideration that Pele and to a slightly lesser extent Maradona, played during an era when football wasn't properly internationalized. Pele spent his entire career at one club and Maradona, despite moving around, never faced the sort of quality that we see in the present, where footballers from all walks of life are playing in the very best leagues. Their club careers were quite homogenous in that regard. If both played today they would be considered world class but not at GOAT level they are remembered by. As for CR7 - he is criminally underrated by people who can't seem to dislodge the ghosts players past. He and Messi are imo quite comfortably the two best footballers ever because they have demonstrated it for an unprecedented, protracted period of time during a period when the quality and competition in football have been the most intense.
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You bring up something interesting I havent yet worked out.
I can understand the idea that Messi and CR are arguably the 2 best players ever. The bit I am trying to work out is that I see a case for best footballers and then it being separated from greatest ever. Greatest ever to me encompasses a few more things than footballing ability alone. Pele and Maradona had a huge influence on football and Pele in particular was alongside Ali the greatest sportsman of his time, not just football.
With respect to the competition being the most intense, thats not what I remember. It was just as intense back in the 60's and 70's, the only real difference is the level of tv coverage and the money that brought in. I remember very clearly just how huge WC's were and how huge European Cups were back then.
 
Champagne Football said:
I think it's fair to say that there are 4 players who you can put in the GOAT box
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Not really. It was already a quite crowded place with Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano and Cruyff, now Messi obviously followed, but I'm not sure what Cristiano did that leveled him with Di Stefano or Cruyff and put him ahead of Beckenbauer, Platini, G. Müller and a few others. It's all very close (and even the gap between say, Platini and Maradona isn't that big), so personal preference and everything, but it's definitely not "fair to say" that Cristiano is one of the four best footballers to ever grace the pitch.
 
I think in considering who is the GOAT in any sporting field, one has to consider, not only skills, trophies, medals and records, but also the overall influence of a player or athlete on the sport in consideration. The argument for a Mohammed Ali in boxing for instance, transcends his three heavyweight world championship titles or his amazing boxing skills, and delves into his incredible influence on boxing as a sport. It's like he redefined the sport. He popularized it. Consciously or otherwise, he used it for global (political and economic influence). I think this is why an Ali is even in the GOAT sportsman discussion and not just boxing.

Pele, almost did the same for football. I think he was the first globally recognized football super star. Imagine a country, far away in Africa, declaring a temporary Civil War ceasefire just because of Pele. The warring sides put together a match and Pele played one half each for the two sides. He bridged racial divides and had tremendous influence on raising the economic value of the sport.

I am saying that when considering CR7 (and or Messi, De Stefano, Maradonna, etc) as GOAT, we may have to look a bit beyond what they accomplish on the pitch. At that level, we may want to also consider how they have elevated the sport on a global level and or how they have pioneered new ideas and philosophies in football. This is not, in anyway trying to diminish the superior importance of skills and on field accomplishments, but rather to look at the whole picture.

How does CR7 fit into all these? Can he really be in the GOAT discussion considering this context?
 
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