I just cant take Mbappe seriously while he's playing at PSG.
Who is the better player: Mbappe or Henry?
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Well, the English-based fans will definitely favor Henry because he dominated their league which they seem to think is the Everest of club football, not to mention he has been an absolutely incredible player that has pushed the boundaries of what a striker could be (such as his season where he had 30+goals and 20+ assists). I don't see the PL as anything special compared to other leagues, it's still an extremely top-heavy league, just with more money and it has some of the best coaches in the world due to the wages paid and therefore brings the best out of the better players, yet the very elite of superstar players hardly ever played there (there's yet to be a Ballon d'Or winner in the PL for more than a decade, if you care about that award's standing, though that will change soon I'm sure).
It is a fantastic atmosphere at the games though, I'll give them that, I love to see a big game in English football, but I don't consider the level any more difficult than anywhere else for the elite players when we talk about a Mbappe or Henry. What Mbappe does at PSG, I have no doubts he would do at a City, just like I'm not surprised at what Haaland is doing. The elite talent in the best team will dominate the competition, it doesn't matter what league it's in.
Now in regards to Henry, he played in a different period, football wasn't completely about the money and ridiculously top-heavy teams that hoarded all of the world's talent at every position, and the way he played, the manner of goals he scored, and the production over the years is impossible to ignore, it definitely factors into my opinion. For me, Henry was robbed of a Ballon d'Or, either in 2003 or 2004. I've argued in the past, to people's mockery, that Ronaldinho shouldn't have won his first Ballon d'Or over him, and I still stand by that, or maybe Nedved, one of those two should not have won it over him IMO, and you could (or at least I could) argue that he could have even won two Ballon d'Ors, but the PL wasn't regarded as highly as it is now by the media (which is only relevant for those awards, although now it's heavily based on the CL more than the actual league IMO).
For me, I put an absolute premium on international football, fair or not, it's what gets my rocks off, and what creates worldwide superstars. I love international football, nothing gives me more emotions than a world cup. When I look at their international careers, it's hard to put in context how special Mbappe's been at the World Cup since 2018. Whether I look at players like R9, Messi, CR7, Zidane, or indeed Henry, none of them have been as consistently brilliant and devastating as Mbappe's been so far, and while many might look at it as hyperbole, I really don't think it is, but we just have this natural inclination to downgrade current players and only keep the best of memories about former legends. I was too young for Platini, but he won France our first ever international trophy and he scored 9 goals on the way of doing it in a variety of ways. He played in the best championship at the time and won 3 ballon d'ors in a row (which he might not have were South American players allowed back then, but he would have had at least one or two). So I can recognize that he's the most special and impactful player France ever produced, even though the legend of my time was Zidane.
There's always going to be plenty of fans and media that say he must move to really prove himself because who cares what he does in Ligue 1, I just don't buy that one bit and see it solely as entitled fans who want to simply enrich their championship with the best player. The reason I say that is because only the very elite teams will get Mbappe, his competition will not be any higher or difficult there than it is now. Whether it's joining Madrid or City (the only two teams who could realistically afford him), he's joining a stacked team where the rest of the league has very little chance to do anything about him. I won't be impressed if (when) Haaland wins the PL with City, nowhere near as much as I would have found it impressive for him to win in Dortmund, even though the Bundesliga is a 'weaker' league. Is it really an accomplishment? Would it have been an accomplishment for Mbappe to win a CL or Liga for Madrid when they did both without him in a Liga that is starved of actual superstar players, or genuine competition?
You can listen to pundits, fans, etc right now and they're calling Mbappe the best player in the world, it's a distinction he's been labeled with here and there for over a year now, all of that without ever moving out of the lowly Ligue 1. And these international tournaments, just like the CL, are a reminder that there's special talent beyond the mighty Premier League or La Liga (although La Liga itself is taking a backseat now) which is massively overrated here and in the media which is full of English pundits to begin with, so naturally they have an inclination to overrate their own league. It's not something I blame them for, it's a natural thing, but don't expect all of us to take it seriously.
If Mbappe wins a second world cup, which is a major if, but for me he leaps ahead of Henry for my own personal criteria, not to mention just how ahead of him he is at the age of 23 if we compare both at that age, but he still has many years ahead of him to either enhance that or lose steam and fall behind. And if he wins a CL for PSG, I'm getting a full-sized back tattoo of him (not really, but you get my point...instant legend in France). At the end of the day, he's a French player, I don't care what the English or Spanish fans have to think on it, it matters way more and has far more of boost to his legacy for most of us that he wins with France and gets the capital and his hometown its first European success than what I consider taking the easy way out and joining the team that won 15 of them without him. I'm sure he's going to move eventually, but I appreciate that this ultra-talented lad chose to spend as much time as he had to put his hometown on the map when he could have picked any club in the world for massive wages and guaranteed starts.
Lastly (because I'm going way on), I thought you had made a brilliant breakdown of the difference between the two, and your point about how much Henry deferred to Zidane even during his prime is what for me truly separates the two, just like the point you made (which I agreed with) that Mbappe could be playing with Pele, Messi, Maradona, Zidane, he would not defer to anyone and take the game over because he believes he's the best, right or wrong and it shows in how he approaches the games. Henry displayed that in England, but he never translated it on the national team, even at his very best he always deferred to Zidane (and they never formed the deadly partnership that two talents like that should have, Anelka was a much better duo with Zidane than Henry for example), and for me that brings Henry down a peg.
TL;DR: Henry's overall career definitely impacts his overall legacy, and while I consider Mbappe a superior player for France, Henry is still the overall better player but it's really just a matter of time before Mbappe surpasses him and a few years from now (short of a massive change of form), I don't even think this is a debate anymore, winning a second world cup already changes this stance for me.
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People get ridiculous sometimes. The fact some are very adamant to argue in favor for a 23 year Mbappe to one of the game's greatest entire career tells you all you need to know about how silly this debate is.
I think I also read in this thread somewhere saying that Deschamps was a greater player than Henry. For feck sakes.
At the moment no, Mbappe is loved and appreciated for what he is. His place in the pantheon of greatest players isn't talked about that much.
You appear to have done so already, so how about some links?
Mbappe could be better than Henry but as their careers currently stand Henry takes it, lots of time for Mbappe to change that though if he keeps going.
Peak Henry was unplayable.
*In the PL.
I've checked several sources, mostly shite. And as I said, it doesn't even matter that much unless it's a 30 meters dash, acceleration is far more important and it's pretty obvious Mbappé accelerates faster.
This is a fair point. I kind of think that the bundesliga, la liga and the premier league will produce competition for Real, Bayern and City sooner than later. They're at a low ebb but i hope and expect it to change. I think even with that, the scale of competition in these leagues is far beyond what PSG face, his time at Monaco was impressive, PSG just dont matter the overwhelming majority of the time.
I'm firmly in the he needs to move bucket.
I used to like international football, i think even if i wasn't ignoring qatar i wouldn't have much regard for it these days. Thought the quality in Brazil was quite poor and it hasn't changed much in more recent competitions. Clearly cant talk about it with any kind of confidence but i kind of presume he wont be facing meaningful competition until the quarter finals or later.
Mbappe has not lit up '2 world cups'. He's not even played a respectable team in this one. Let's come back to this thread when Harry 'the shield' Maguire puts him in his pocket.
Many thanks for this post. Greatly appreciated.
Interesting. When does that typically start in France amongst media and fans?
I vote for Mbappe in this poll. I believe when his career is over, he will end up as one of the best players of all time( have a chance from 1-20) if he moves to his next steps correctly and doesn't have any injuries like ACL or MCL. The reason I vote for Mbappe is that I think he will end up as a better player than Henry for sure.
Right now, Mbappe is only 23 years old. He has so so many years to decorate his career to be better and better every day. Henry has already retired for 7 years and we've seen what he had done on the pitch. Mbappe's performances in UCL and international stages like World Cup are on excellent level and I think this department will be separated him from Henry when we compare both of them in the future. However, I would say that Henry also had a lot of great performances in big games( and a lot of terrible performances too) as a lot of guys have already mentioned time and time again. In Mbappe's case, he also has some poor performances in some campaigns like Euro 2021( or even some matches in UCL).
Mbappe has 10+ years to add to his portfolio and I'm sure that he will perform amazingly in a lot of future big games, especially in UCL/Euro or World Cup.
@Fortitude I would agree with you perfectly 100 times about Mbappe's mentality and that will separate him from Henry and a lot of legends or his contemporaries. Mbappe is a person who wants to be an alpha male of his teams( both France and his clubs), and could handle the pressure well( better than Henry), thrives as the first option for his team due to his unmatched confidence in his abilities and the last one would be he has rarely panicked or chocked in the big stages. These characteristics are the characteristics of the best players in any sport like Jordan and Tom Brady. I wouldn't say that Henry lacked it during his playing days but Mbappe is at another level compared to Henry.
Another thing that I think it's the most important part of his game is his intelligence. Mbappe doesn't have Henry's level of ball control or techniques but he has amazing football IQ and off-the-ball movements which probably makes him unpredictable and effective.
Right now, Mbappe is only 23 years old. He has so so many years to decorate his career to be better and better every day. Henry has already retired for 7 years and we've seen what he had done on the pitch. Mbappe's performances in UCL and international stages like World Cup are on excellent level and I think this department will be separated him from Henry when we compare both of them in the future. However, I would say that Henry also had a lot of great performances in big games( and a lot of terrible performances too) as a lot of guys have already mentioned time and time again. In Mbappe's case, he also has some poor performances in some campaigns like Euro 2021( or even some matches in UCL).
Mbappe has 10+ years to add to his portfolio and I'm sure that he will perform amazingly in a lot of future big games, especially in UCL/Euro or World Cup.
@Fortitude I would agree with you perfectly 100 times about Mbappe's mentality and that will separate him from Henry and a lot of legends or his contemporaries. Mbappe is a person who wants to be an alpha male of his teams( both France and his clubs), and could handle the pressure well( better than Henry), thrives as the first option for his team due to his unmatched confidence in his abilities and the last one would be he has rarely panicked or chocked in the big stages. These characteristics are the characteristics of the best players in any sport like Jordan and Tom Brady. I wouldn't say that Henry lacked it during his playing days but Mbappe is at another level compared to Henry.
Another thing that I think it's the most important part of his game is his intelligence. Mbappe doesn't have Henry's level of ball control or techniques but he has amazing football IQ and off-the-ball movements which probably makes him unpredictable and effective.
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Mbappe seems to get better every game. His finishing and off-the-mark pace are right up there with anyone really.
But Henry was still better for me - more creative, more skilful, scored goals with more variety and did all this for several years.
I think Mbappe can go past Henry in a few years, though, as he is already amazing and ahead of Henry at the same age.
But Henry was still better for me - more creative, more skilful, scored goals with more variety and did all this for several years.
I think Mbappe can go past Henry in a few years, though, as he is already amazing and ahead of Henry at the same age.
Usually after a Ballon d'Or just like there were some debates recently concerning Benzema. I think if France wins this WC with him obviously as the top scorer/player, the debate will rightly happen
It aint. Henry actually was faster at acceleration too. But a few know this. Henry has said this himself too
mbappe
Come on mate, open your eyes and stop believing what Henry, who always had a huge ego and said that as a joke during a video call after Mbappé said it about himself.
Henry was lightening fast and might have a higher top speed, but Mbappé's acceleration is out of this world.
Mbappe is 23, much too early to compare the two. However, after consulting….
Mirror mirror on the wall who’s the greatest of them all,
In a land not far away there’s a blond cyborg who’ll blow them both away.
Mirror mirror on the wall who’s the greatest of them all,
In a land not far away there’s a blond cyborg who’ll blow them both away.
Mbappe is 23, much too early to compare the two. However, after consulting….
Mirror mirror on the wall who’s the greatest of them all,
In a land not far away there’s a blond cyborg who’ll blow them both away.
Haaland's carreer will always be crippled by the very poor NT he plays for, and there's nothing he can do about it. He might have the best PL stats in history, he'll always miss having a euro/world title. Hell even a semi final or something could go a long way just to show he's around (Messi didn't win much until last year) but it's very unlikely to happen.
But to be fair, most football fans by 2002 were in agreement that Fat Ronaldo would go down as one of the greatest ever players just for the peak he'd shown in less than 5 active years of top level football.
The debate was really whether he is better than Pele and Maradona. Henry is nowhere near those levels so I don't see why comparisons can't be made between Henry and Mbappe, if only for a bit of banter.
Sums it up. Let's have this debate after he moves to a proper league first. I actually feel he'd be really good in the premier league so this ain't one of those cold night at the Britannica posts but come on, PSG. Even Troy Deeny would back 10 a season in that team.
Yep, his international career will amount to nothing.
His realistic route to greatness has to be through the CL and to a lesser degree (currently) scoring for fun in the prem.
I‘d gamble he’ll win a Ballon D’or within the next 3 years.
But… he has nothing to prove to you, me and anyone, really, without being diminished for that? I can see Liverpool as the only environment with a remote chance to intrigue him, yet their money will never be enough to compete with PSG and Madrid.
its arsenals greatest team, he is a major part of it, a fantastic player, 2 league titles and 2 fa cups, i think Mpabbe does it more,
He has a lot to prove. Neymar was probably the best player in the world over the last 2-3 years on ability. Him playing in a league that most people don't watch hampered him greatly. Is he respected? Yes. But noone would have awarded for brilliance at PSG, even if he was scoring 70 goals per season.
I'd even go as far as to argue that some people are actually overrating Mbappe on the basis of hardly watching him. Where Henry was watched week in week out against decent calibre opposition, Mbappe only ever gets to be watched during big events like the world cup, euros or champions league. People are so surprised by his game, where people got used to and almost bored of what Henry supplied as he did it every week.
What's happened with Mbappe is that the media have done a fantastic job in hyping him, Messi, Neymar and Ronaldo up for this event. Many people watching him would either have come out with a conclusion of him being average or the best thing since sliced bread based on this tournament. Where a KDB can have a terrible tournament, with all of us knowing that they are usually always fantastic, Mbappe's fanfare lives and dies on each tournament game, similar to stars of the past, as people don't watch him regularly....even when they watch PSG, its hard to judge how good he is due to the competition being so poor and Messi and Neymar also shining in the spotlight. Playing for France presents the time where he gets to be the superstar
So Mbappé is overrated because he performs in the most important games, that's a nice theory
Your message doesn't make any sense. You manage to say that Mbappé was overhyped (so it means people have big expectation), then say that people are suprised because he performs well when they watch him in big games. Absurd.
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Mind, you may be truly right if England win the WC in the next fortnight.
As for today, he is: a WC holder, the brightest star in the current tournament, the most paid footballer in the world, a hero at home in one of the most beatiful city in the world, and in contention to join the biggest house in the game in Madrid.
Really, really, who would blame him for not wanting to cross the Channel and “prove” himself in a league he does not find attractive? Same goes for Neymar, Verratti and a number of PSG players. Sure, we can say PSG is just a zombie club possessd by the Qatar evil sportwashing rulers but… that’s the way it goes these days.
So Mbappé is overrated because he performs in the most important games, that's a nice theory
Your message doesn't make any sense. You manage to say that Mbappé was overhyped (so it means people have big expectation), then say that people are suprised because he performs well when they watch him in big games. Absurd.
Because performing in one big game doesn't mean you are a great player. If France lose to England, and Mbappe plays poorly. Would that then mean he's a poor player?
I'm saying that big games come few and far between for a player like Mbappe. The world cup was 4 years ago, where he was part of a strong team. The Euros happened last year, where he was heavily criticized. The big games in the Champions League happen between February and May where he only has two legs with a maximum of 4 teams, which can also be a minimum on one team if they don't go far. So people generally get to see very little of him, so every game he has determines how people view him, but is not necessarily a true reflection of his actual ability as a footballer.
For example. Harry Kane. We watch him every week in the Premier League. We know how he performs against City, but we also know how he performs against the likes of Norwich. We see it each and every week, when he's in form, when he's out of form. Due to this, we also have a clear understanding of what his peak performance looks like, but also the consistency of his play and have an idea of what we should expect.
If most of us hadn't watched him prior to this tournament, we would be surprised at how good he is as a striker due to his insane playmaking ability, a trait which most strikers don't have. However, due to know about this, despite how many chances he has created, relative to other strikers, we aren't celebrating it much since its not new. We see it each and every week. Unlike Mbappe, who's pace and growth in his game has shocked both the media and fans alike, so is getting far more attention than it might have otherwise gotten.
A couple of years ago - about 2- people on this same forum were debating whether he was better than Rashford. Now we're comparing him to Henry, that's the example of volatility in perception for a player like him
He doesn't need to play in the premier league to prove himself. PSG are just too stacked relative to the rest of the league for their matches to have any meaning. Its more of a PSG issue than a ligue 1 issue.
He doesn't need to prove himself if he doesn't want to. But much like Veratti, Marquinho's, Thiago Silva and others over the years no one will take him seriously while hes playing there. They were / are all generational talents but outside of international tournaments they're a forgotten irrelevance. Same with Neymar who's been a million miles away from any kind of Balon Dor conversation during his time there.
And rightfully so as their champions league performances tend to be an embarrasment, having total meltdowns and getting knocked out by much weaker teams every year.
What you call "volatility of perception" is just performance. While Rashford was being shite, Mbappe eviscerated Barcelona at Camp Nou, scored against Bayern, City, Juventus, Liverpool, Real etc. in the CL.
Yeah right, a final, a semi final after beating Barcelona and Bayern, a loss against Real (that ultimately won the CL) that wasn't much more embarassing than City's or Chelsea"s. How laughable.
Oh, and I you think nobody is taking Mbappé seriously, you haven't been paying attention.
How about getting beaten by a united team containing Fred, McTominay, Pereirra and Dalot in midfield. Coughing up 2 stupid, terrible goals in the process. Something you have a fair bit of form in.
The manner of your defeats are embarrasing. They're amateurish and make you look like clowns, it reinforces PSG as a joke club, not that i expect you to recognise it.
I dont take him seriously, theres a dozen other posters in this thread who dont take him seriously, no one talks about him outside of international tournaments. He's clearly, blatantly talented (just like Veratti, Neymar, Marquinhos and so on) its the joke club they play for that makes people dismiss them.
Henry had a better left hand, but by the time they were 23 I'd say Mbappe was the better player.
Just directly say you dislike PSG instead of trying to cover that up with pseudo-analysis, it'll all save us a lot of time.
Demonstrating "having total meltdowns and getting knocked out by much weaker teams every year" with a game from 2019 doesn't make much sense. In fact, since Mbappé and Neymar arrived, it was the only time it happened. The other teams that beat PSG were Real Madrid (that ended up winning the CL every time), Bayern Munich (in a final) and City (in a semi final).
And to be fair, I don't think "a dozen other posters in this thread" is really impressive considering that half of England is wondering how to stop Mbappé in 3 days. For a player that isn't take seriously, I'd say he does make an impression.
He will end up being far better. Which is saying something in itself.
Eh, we've seen Bale carry his team to a semi-final.
A team of average fullbacks (Feyenoord guys and a Rennes starter), Ostigard and Ajer ar the back, Haaland up front, sometimes pairded with Sorloth, and a midfield group of Odegaard, Berge, Thorsby, Aursnes, Petter Hauge and Solbakken is probably better than what Bale had to work with overall. Odegaard and Ramsey we'll call a draw and then you'd probably take the Norwegian squad over Wales.
If he can get to a SF and a QF in his career that's all you can really ask for, but I wouldn't rule it out. If he's a top player until he's 32 or so that's 5 chances to qualify and carry his country to win them their first ever knockout game, which is crazy since they were ranked #2 in the world for a spell before World Cup 94, though that says more about the nature of FIFA rankings.
That says much more about this forum than about Mbappé. This Rashford thread has always been ridiculous and to their credit many posters had said it in the first few pages.
Ah come on, while Mbappe is a very, very good player who could probably do it in the PL, La Liga or anywhere else, he needs to leave France and compete with better teams week in, week out to be considered up there with Henry. Not for our sake, but for his sake, because he's got the talent to go up another level and completely bury this debate, but he just chooses to cruise in the French league instead, permanently in 2nd gear.
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