Henry more creative, better technique, better dribbler, passer, free kicks, long range goals. I'm struggling to see what Mbappe is better at.
Who is the better player: Mbappe or Henry?
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What is Mbappe better at? Henry passing and shooting was elite
He is better at playing today.
Mbappé has been a better key player for France. While it's fair to say that Henry had better skills, Mbappé seems to have better intangibles. At this point in time I'm not really comfortable having one above the other.
Beating up Bebop and Rocksteady.
I think you all are just overrating Henry, who was a great player in a relatively weak English top league, when Wenger was sort of guru a la Einstein, and more so who is second fiddle even in his home country behind Fontaine, Platini, Zidane, even Giroud. Mbappe at 23 is a golden boy at this moment and could just retire today to be higher in the French top list than Henry, irrespective of what you think of him.
1)Could be they are more reliant on Mbappe as not Zidane, Trezeguet, Ribery, Youri etc. If Benzema could play might be a bit different
2) International standard has dropped (maybe harsh)
At this point I think there's a Ronaldo feel to it.
To this day some will tell you he was the GOAT and others (most) that he would have been had he stayed on his trajectory. Even after living through it, you have a hard time telling how much was reality and how much projecting it into the future.
I'd still side with Henry's entire body of work, but fully expect Mbappé to surpass him.
To this day some will tell you he was the GOAT and others (most) that he would have been had he stayed on his trajectory. Even after living through it, you have a hard time telling how much was reality and how much projecting it into the future.
I'd still side with Henry's entire body of work, but fully expect Mbappé to surpass him.
By Ronaldo I mean Fenómeno, not Cristiano the GMOAT
Not really. People probably forget that Henry was supposed to lead France in 2002, 2004 or 2008 and he didn't. Henry was good in peripheral role for France but never as the main man. As for Mbappé France aren't more reliant on him, players like Kanté, Griezmann and Varane have been as important with Griezmann being the actual technical leader, the difference being that when Griezmann hit a rough patch, Mbappé took the reigns, Henry never took the reigns. Now it's fair to also point out that Mbappé struggled at the Euro, so he also has negative points.
So Mbappé is overrated because he performs in the most important games, that's a nice theory
Your message doesn't make any sense. You manage to say that Mbappé was overhyped (so it means people have big expectation), then say that people are suprised because he performs well when they watch him in big games. Absurd.
Biggest games? International football is poor compared to the top leagues. Even then, Mbappe managed to almost single-handedly help France get knocked out of the Euros. Where was he in the UCL final?
There's so many things wrong about this message that I don't have the courage to fully answer. It's not about the quality of the games, it's about the pressure and exposure, and a world cup is 10 times more important than a PL game, whether you like it or not. And a CL run doesn't start at the final.
About your "single handedly" argument, this is beyond ridiculous so i'm not going to adress it. You can tell us what you think of Henry's red card in 2002 though.
It's absurd that I have to advocate for Mbappé when I actually answered Henry to the question, but so many people come here with an agenda that it destroys any hope of a balanced debate.
He does have to prove it to me you and the guy at the pub if he wants to be remembered as one of the greats up there with Henry.
If he's fine just being a big fish in a small pound and making money that's up to him
I just think it’s unfair to put so much emphasis on national football when it’s so much about luck. Luck to be born in a country with a strong national team. How is Haaland supposed to compete when he’s “handicapped” from birth? Is Giroud better than Bale or Ibrahimovic? I might have been too harsh on Mbappe, I agree, but it’s tilting to see the overreaction on here. If he was born in Bulgaria we wouldn’t have some posters claiming he is on route to GOAT level.
Having a different opinion to yours does not constitute having an agenda.
Mbappe will be happy to be remembered as an all time great everywhere outside of England.
Only in England, there is such a ridiculous importance to league title and especially Premier league title. Premier league wasn’t even the top league during Henry’s career
And I’m pretty sure if we include 2 Serie A titles as the best player in an all time great argument, it would be diminished by PL fans. Even if it was a time when Serie A was the strongest
It is when the only argument is pretty much "Henry because he did it in the Premier League". A lot of pro Henry points are valid in this thread, but some are just textbook PL hubris.
I think Mbappe is slightly faster and that's it.
Henry did ok in France 98, In Euro 2000 bagged 2 goals and 1 assist in 2 group stage games then semi final goal. Only played 1 matches in 2002, as came off the bench for 25 mins in the 2nd. 4 goals 2 assists in conferations cup. 2006 Wc bagged 2 in the groups, the winner vs brazil in quarters then assisted winner vs portugal. He's done ok
Exactly, he has done ok which isn't enough when you are supposed to lead a team and you are seen as arguably the best player around. He is in a similar bracket than players like Ribéry or Pogba, decent peripheral players for France but nothing more.
I've become more simple in my judgement of footballers over the last few years, I don't think Mbappe will ever be a better footballer than Henry but I do think he can be the better "player" and arguably already is. In the same way I felt C.Ronaldo wasn't a better footballer than, say, someone like Zidane but he did become the better player. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else or if I'm just waffling.
I see what you are saying and I share that view. But I would say that Henry was the more talented player from a skill and maybe athletic standpoint but not necessarily the better footballer. Sport is also about intangibles, the ability to adapt or overcome certain things, to understand and fix certain problems. Haaland and Mbappé are good current examples of that, I don't think that either of them are the most talented players for their generation, at least not when it comes to pure skills but I also don't think that there is a single player that is currently more driven and more able to fully use his tools as either of them, the other thing is that they both improve on a yearly basis.
If France win this world cup I think one player who should be reevaluated is Antoine Griezmann -- how far up the ladder does he rank in terms of French footballers?
Since 2014 he has easily been the best player, I seem to remember conversations in the media that had him very high. I don't know how long he is going to play but he could be the one beating both of Henry's records before Mbappé.
I dont think anyone has made that argument. I think your willfully misrepresenting the argument people are making. Almost like you have an agenda
Watching Griezmann now emphasizes how much of a mistake he made with that Barcelona move and all the stunts he pulled prior to that. He was actually the player viewed as France's star man coming into the 2018 world cup. He starred in the 2016 Euros. He was also fantastic at club level for Atletico Madrid. If he had planned his move better, he would have recognized that Barca were not a team that would ever accommodate someone playing his position.
If his standing at club level had stayed the same, I truly believe we would be having a different discussion about his career.
I dont think anyone has made that argument. I think your willfully misrepresenting the argument people are making. Almost like you have an agenda
Almost as if someone wrote that no one will take Mbappé seriously while he plays at PSG. I don't think I'm misrepresenting much here.
Their stats are very similar for assists and goals per game when Henry played in the PL. There is a caveat with Mbappe that he does play for the, undisputed, dominant side in Ligue 1, who pretty much have no competition. This does hand him the advantage to be able to exceed Henry's output, but he hasn't been able to do so thus far. I don't know whether Mbappe is as good as Henry, but I am certain he is not better.
Mbappe doesn't need to get better than Henry and, more than likely, he never will be better than him. Very rarely does a player come along who could be considered better than Henry - I can only think of Messi and Ronaldo in my lifetime. That is the standard a player needs to even be considered better, but, even then, I do wonder how many goals Henry would score if he played in a consistently dominant side.
How many goals would Henry score if he played for that dominant Barcelona side at his peak? I don't think he would be that far off Messi and Ronaldo for goals etc.
Mbappe doesn't need to get better than Henry and, more than likely, he never will be better than him. Very rarely does a player come along who could be considered better than Henry - I can only think of Messi and Ronaldo in my lifetime. That is the standard a player needs to even be considered better, but, even then, I do wonder how many goals Henry would score if he played in a consistently dominant side.
How many goals would Henry score if he played for that dominant Barcelona side at his peak? I don't think he would be that far off Messi and Ronaldo for goals etc.
As much as i love Henry, Mbappe has the potential to be one of the best players in football history. Top 10 at least. So Mbappe for me.
I dont think anyone has made that argument. I think your willfully misrepresenting the argument people are making. Almost like you have an agenda
It's weird. He's trying to act like the Premier League and the French League are comparable. There's a reason people don't cite R9's days at PSV, or Ronaldinho's at PSG when discussing their success. Gerrard can win league titles in Scotland and be on path for relegation at Villa. Ligue 1 is not considered a serious league. In the same way people view the Portuguese or Dutch leagues. It's not on the level of the Bundesliga either.
Maybe one day with more money coming in, that might change. But at the moment, it hasn't. Globally, people had more awareness of Cavani when he joined United than at any point he played for PSG, despite the fact he was far older and that he had been fantastic in Paris. These are the facts.
When it comes to "doing it in the Premier League"....well that is the division Henry played in. It's where he played the majority of his peak in. For any given calendar year, about 90 percent of his games would have been played in England. It's such a weird take. People judge you on how you play in the league you play most in.
As far as internationals are concerned. They aren't anywhere near as important in determining the quality of a player as people are trying to make it out to be. It's a tournament, in a specific period that occurs every four years. Players can come into them injured, players can miss them entirely, players can have poor national teams. One thing that has always irked me is how dismissive people are of his 2006 run. Zidane got a lot of plaudits, but Henry had as much impact in getting to that final as Mbappe had in 2018. Henry also had a great Euros in 2000. And was a big contributor in their 1998 world cup run. Again, world cups come once every 4 years. He barely played in the 2002 world cup and by 2010 he was already old.
He had 2 world cup and 1 Euros competitions as good as anyone would expect of a star. Yet somehow, because Zidane was on the team, people have completely eliminated those performances. Mbappe was not the star of the 2018 world cup, he didn't have a good Euro 2021. Why is this even a discussion?
Exactly, even his older self was able to contribute significantly to the 09 team. Henry was scoring and assisting in games in which Arsenal were winning by tighter margins. It's why judging players simply by looking at stats doesn't layout the full picture. People usually think this has to do with the performance of the player themselves when this is mentioned, but it has more to do with the team, position and league their in.
If stats and winning a world cup are that important, should Mbappe be considered a better player than Van Basten?
Has Mbappe even been better than Neymar has for PSG?
I'm not saying he's not a good player. He has a real sharpness to his game, his anticipation and speed of reaction is actually better than Henry's. His quick and sharp movements actually resemble CR7 more so than Henry, which leads me to think he is a potentially greater scorer than Henry may ever have been, since he has fantastic anticipation, which will lead to easier scoring opportunities. However, as a whole, Henry was far more creative. He was smarter, stronger, could hold up better, had better balance, had better composure and was a better leader. He had all these tools with a similar speed ( even though Mbappe uses it better) and packaged it to produce consistently dominant performances against most teams. Unfortunately, at his peak, Arsenal were a terrible team away from home. As this is a team game, where Wenger seemed a bit tactically naive, despite decent performances, at Arsenal he couldn't go far in Europe.
I mean, if you want to do a stats comparison and keep it strictly CL/WC/Euros, Mbappé absolutely pisses on Henry as a goalscorer for both France and in CL on a per minutes basis, as well as in KO games specifically(in fact, Mbappé already has more CL/WC/Euro KO stages goals than Henry in his entire career...). Even just counting Henry's peak(00/01-06/07) seasons for Arsenal...
Throwing in assists doesn't change much, beyond the fact Mbappé has more total assists in both CL and WC+Euros, though he does lag behind in assists in KO stages of CL(4-3 only counting his peak seasons, 7-3 total).
Mbappé has been a significantly more productive player than Henry in both CL and for France, both compared against Henry's entire career and his peak seasons, and especially so when it mattered the most
Throwing in assists doesn't change much, beyond the fact Mbappé has more total assists in both CL and WC+Euros, though he does lag behind in assists in KO stages of CL(4-3 only counting his peak seasons, 7-3 total).
Mbappé has been a significantly more productive player than Henry in both CL and for France, both compared against Henry's entire career and his peak seasons, and especially so when it mattered the most
He didn't come off the bench against Uruguay, he played 25 minutes because he was sent off...
As @giorno said, he wasn’t benched. He started the game and got himself one dumb red card in the first half hour. A red card that massively contributed to eliminating France from the tournament…
Yep. Henry was as much a villain in France post 2002 WC as Mbappé post Euros
You realise theres more than 2 leagues in world football right? Its not a league issue anyway, its a PSG issue.
Henry scared me more than playing against Mbappe has it would. Henry had everything, he'd have bagged tonnes of goals in Ligue 1 right now. Talent wise there's no comparison, Mbappe will never have the levels Henry did, it's just a question of whether he can make the use of what he does have and be effective for a long time. Then ask the question.
Forget stats or who scored more for France etc, do people not use the eye test anymore and just discuss using G/A stats? If you watched both of them play regularly, then there is no way you can say Mbappe. Henry was different gravy, absolutely unstoppable in his pomp.
That's fine. He also got his team to a world cup whilst being outplayed by using his hand so he has credit in the bank no?
Injured, basically playing on one ankle.
That's complete nonsense, especially when you're touting the PL, given that it's the richest league by far and they can buy any players out there. It's more ridiculous to put so much of an emphasis on the PL because Mbappe would only go to the best team in any league, who could afford the best players from across the world to every position, it's far more challenging to play for your country where you're stuck to your nation's best players. Granted, France have a lot of great players, but your point is still silly in this case, especially given the injuries France have had to deal with prior to this world cup. Missing the top scorer in Germany, missing the midfield pairing of Kante/Pogba, missing the current Ballon d'Or.
Well Henry seems to disagree with you, he considers Mbappe more talented than him and he's right. But if I see him, I'll let him know pocco from redcafe couldn't disagree more.
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