How about spending 9 months of your weekends watching good football played by the team you support? Or like us last season spending our 9 months of weekends watching miserable football.
Who had the better season? Arsenal or Man utd?
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How about spending 9 months of your weekends watching good football played by the team you support? Or like us last season spending our 9 months of weekends watching miserable football.
At the time as fans of course watching good football is better but in the future most fans would probably not remember it as much as the things their team have won. It's just how it is. Football games aren't very memorable save for a few big occasions or when beautiful goals happened. I would say the season where we lost the title to City was very exciting at the time but I'd not remember it fondly.
You've been spoilt with success between 1992 and 2013 so you might not, but Arsenal hasn't won the PL in 20 years and hadn't been in a genuine title race for a very, very long time before these last two years, you can bet that their fans will remember these years even if they don't have the PL trophy to show for it.
"Small club mentality" is all good and well but I'd guess most of your fans would bite your arm off for a season like Arsenal's next year, even if it means finishing second. And to answer the question: yes, I remember our 08/09 and 13/14 seasons very, very well.
Honestly, to me the memory is still very clear. The last minute Aguero goal broke our hearts. It was a close title race.
Arsenal as we have just won our second consecutive Premier League title. Pending the lawyers sorting it....
Ever since you grow up and you can count and understand what win and lose means when you win something that's remembered fondly. The losing part makes you improve I give you that, but it's not a honor that you want to brag about.
And yes, ask me if we fizzle out to 2nd place compared to beating your two biggest rivals on the way to a cup win -> yeah I take the 2nd option.
The focus is surely PL and CL but 2nd place has always been 2nd place - not important.
CL qualification is another matter. But in regards to that then makes it matter even less if you finish 2 or 4th(sometimes 5th like in Italy) as all clubs are qualified for CL.
The playing style also has no correlation whether we estimate success. You can play exciting football and finish middle of the table and still the fans would remember the exciting stuff if you look at it from that angle.
If you want to put an emphasis on finishing 2nd, we did couple of times in the last 7 years as much as Arsenal and it meant feck all.
Arsenal had better season, their fans enjoyed watching them for 10 months, playing arguably the best football in PL and Europe, scoring lot of goals and with young team.
On the other hand, we watched shit football for 10 months, struggling to score goals and always worrying about which negative records we are going to break next.
If given chance, i would take Arsenal season for next season than ours.
On the other hand, we watched shit football for 10 months, struggling to score goals and always worrying about which negative records we are going to break next.
If given chance, i would take Arsenal season for next season than ours.
Charges are till 2018.
The question is who had a better season which also includes neutrals not only fans of the club. My question was do you remember our second place in 09/10 or in 97/98?
The second part is naturally up for personal opinion. We have many fans so one would just be happy to be there or watch some nice football, some would want to win, we can't really put all in the same bracket.
Ever since I know and watched United I've been spoiled with that success story so 2nd place means very little to me. It's a small club mentality considering what United became.
When Fergie stepped to the plate he wanted to knock you guys off the perch and he did. He didn't want to make us play nice footie and finish second did he?
We all want our team to play good and exciting stuff, but when you established a standard being happy with 2nd place is for me participation prize.
I don't even know how people can disagree with this. We had a better season because we won the FA Cup? Arsenal are competing in Champions League, almost won Premier League and are actually a great team. We rely on luck, opposition teams to make mistakes or just a random nice pattern of play every once in a while.
I'd much rather be an actual great football team that plays consistent and coherent attacking football than winning FA Cup.
We finished second but we hardly challenged for the league unlike Arsenal who actually had the legit chance to win it going into last game of the season . They didn't fizzle out by any means you are making up your own scenarios .
As a neutral I mentioned in my first post you had a better season than Arsenal on paper.
Followed up with "I know which side I'd rather have supported this season though", so yeah that's personal.
I don't remember any Utd season for the record, so no.
They fizzled out last year when they won 3 in their last 9 games and some were still arguing that 2nd place is better than silverware.
They put a good fight kudos to them, but the end result is pretty much the same.
Who had the better season between United and Arsenal 2019-2020?
To me Arsenal. Even if you cite CL qualification in hindsight we bombed out in the group stage of CL next year so really made no difference to us that qualification we won...
My point is that Liverpool clearly had a better season. Both top 4 but you won a trophy, even if it was the least priority one. You had that day of success
The trophy lift against an excellent (but below par) team is indeed a memorable highlight of the season for you but the recent fear of what top teams are likely to do to this United can only sour it.
The emergence of Mainoo and continued potential of Garnacho are big plusses and the appointment of well regarded backroom talent is another bright spot but there's a long road ahead before United can be considered to be "back".
The current indecision with ten Hag does not bode well.
Arsenal are on a definite upward trajectory with the players, management and owners all seemingly in harness to challenge for top honours next season.
Guardiola looks likely to leave fairly soon and Liverpool could well have an uncertain time ahead.
I know which horse I'd be backing between the two of you.
United have the moment, Arsenal have the probability of many good times in the very near future.
The emergence of Mainoo and continued potential of Garnacho are big plusses and the appointment of well regarded backroom talent is another bright spot but there's a long road ahead before United can be considered to be "back".
The current indecision with ten Hag does not bode well.
Arsenal are on a definite upward trajectory with the players, management and owners all seemingly in harness to challenge for top honours next season.
Guardiola looks likely to leave fairly soon and Liverpool could well have an uncertain time ahead.
I know which horse I'd be backing between the two of you.
United have the moment, Arsenal have the probability of many good times in the very near future.
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Mental. No one will remember in 10 years time going "Oh remember that time that we won nothing and finished runner up in the league, hey didn't we play consistent and coherent attacking football though?"
It's all about trophies.
Neutrals don't remember who won FA cup in couple of seasons.
Who won FA cup between 2013-2018? I don't know and I can't tell without checking Wiki.
Who won in 2019-2022? Again no idea.
And on Wiki you know who won the 2nd place trophy between 2013-2018?
Let me check Arsenal's honors list:
Their second place from last year is yet to be updated, strange.
It's even more peculiar some Arsenal fans shitting on the FA cup as meaningless trophy considering that's the only trophy (domestic and continental) they are the one who won it the most.
Why look ahead 10 years? You probably just felt like shit the past 10 months watching your team, or didn't even watch them at all at times. Meanwhile an Arsenal fan has gotten lots of enjoyment out of their hobby the last two years.
Who cares. You spoke about neutrals as if they remember who won FA cups. Apart from the team that won and lost, no one gives a shit.
Teams do not make winning the FA Cup their objective for the season. You can't because of the nature of the competition, it's more of a nice bonus. Our objective was to cement ourselves in the top 4, hopefully getting a little closer to the title winners. I don't know what Arsenal's was, win the league? Doubt it because City were odds-on favourite. Even if it was they were closer to that than we were to ours.
Nobody ahead of the season when talking about season goals would have mentioned the FA Cup before they mentioned league position/performance. How far we got in the Champions League would have been mentioned before domestic cups by most too.
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It is a lot more likely a neutral to remember a cup final and a win than 38 games run with no end product.
My local team just won the cup after beating the league hegemon. Our local rival won the cup also not so long ago and finished second in another season. Guess how many talk about the cup win (even neutrals) compared to 2nd place finish?
Why are you talking about who will remember what in 10 years? Do you care more about other people's opinion on your team than your own? I'd much rather be a great team in this moment, competing in both Premier League and Champions League that gives me joy to watch than be a shit team all season, constantly annoyed at our performances and players only to win the FA Cup at the end of the season.
That's what's mental. Genuinely can't fathom how people prefer that.
How many are talking about Arsenal this season? Did you see the amount of praise they got, for the way they have played with young team.
How many talk about Van Gaal last season? How many people talk about Klopp finishing 2nd by pushing City till last day getting 95+ points. We all know the answer, they talk so much that they even created "if not for City" title
There is no data or factual information on what neutrals will talk about or remember. Forget neutrals, I'm sure ManUtd rivals won FA cups in last 10 seasons, I don't remember any.
Only way this FA cup will be remembered by larger population is, if this cup saves EtH job and he goes on to build a legacy here.
Because take any game or sport -> the objective is to win. It's not to come close or play nice along the way. We all strive to win rather than look good doing so. What's the inspirational part about train hard, put your best effort -> finish second.
And how many talk now about Arsenal of last season when they finish 2nd?
How many talk now about Spurs finishing second to Leicester? Not even Spurs fans brag about it nowadays.
We used to mock Arsenal for winning the Emirates cup and we won a corner stuff. Maybe we should create a title for that as well like the "not for City" one?
As for own fans - that Aguero moment, you remember it vividly and fondly or you don't want to get back to that memory as it's a moment you eventually lost and dust has settled long time ago?
Because take any game or sport -> the objective is to win. It's not to come close or play nice along the way. We all strive to win rather than look good doing so. What's the inspirational part about train hard, put your best effort -> finish second.
And how many talk now about Arsenal of last season when they finish 2nd?
How many talk now about Spurs finishing second to Leicester? Not even Spurs fans brag about it nowadays.
We used to mock Arsenal for winning the Emirates cup and we won a corner stuff. Maybe we should create a title for that as well like the "not for City" one?
No one is making blanket statement like finishing 2nd is better than any domestic cup.
It's the way they did it. Arsenal played dominant football for months, that's not same as Ole, Jose finishing 2nd. They did by scoring lot of goals, being top at most underlying numbers, and with young core.
Not every 2nd position is same, it's not really that difficult
I’d say both United and Arsenal are equal in terms of that. One side would kill to play better football and another would kill for trophy. None of them has won premier league.
Because take any game or sport -> the objective is to win. It's not to come close or play nice along the way. We all strive to win rather than look good doing so. What's the inspirational part about train hard, put your best effort -> finish second.
Exactly this.
You are making it look like I'm saying that you should be happy with second place, which I'm not.
And no one as a neutral or even Arsenal fans in time will remember it. The next title/cup they win will erase that memory quickly.
I meant 16/17 season actually. But you can see how easy is to lose track of that.Nobody, it's because they finished 3rd.
If you forgive me, I'll try and use an anology.
Arsenal are the guy currently happy with life. He has a good job, good family, little problems with health physically or mentally.
Utd are the guy a bit down on their luck. Perhaps struggling in their job, thinking about separating from their partner, struggling mentally. But has just went out for the weekend on a big night out, had a brilliant night, consume lots of some alcohol / gear or whatever your of poison of choice is.
It's defo made them feel in a better place, but fundamentally the same issues are there that need sorting.
Arsenal are the guy currently happy with life. He has a good job, good family, little problems with health physically or mentally.
Utd are the guy a bit down on their luck. Perhaps struggling in their job, thinking about separating from their partner, struggling mentally. But has just went out for the weekend on a big night out, had a brilliant night, consume lots of some alcohol / gear or whatever your of poison of choice is.
It's defo made them feel in a better place, but fundamentally the same issues are there that need sorting.
I still see people talking about Klopp finishing second twice with huge point tally but nothing much on LVG fa cup. Maybe your locality and your circle doesn't represent all the neutrals.
As a rival i remember Liverpool 2 seasons they came second but as a rival, i don't remember a single year them or Arsenal winning FA Cup.
So Spurs had better season in 16/17 than Arsenal?
They outscored City that year. Scored the most goals and conceded the least.
Kane was the top goalscorer.
Hand on heart what do you remember from Spurs that season?
I don't, took above stats from Wiki.
16/17 season I do remember Chelsea - Arsenal final in the FA cup.
I can again just quote this. I don't remember any season from any club apart from Liverpool. And I know that I'd rather have had Arsenal's season than United's just now, is all I'm saying. Also rather Liverpool's season than United's even if our domestic cup means less. Fine if you disagree, hope you enjoyed your seasont then because of those two wins against Liverpool and City.
Arsenal clearly had a better season.
Their season ended in disappointment, but they can build on that and can have a great next season.
United, on the other hand, had to save the season by winning the FA Cup and getting into Europe.
Our only saving grace is we have our players back from injury, a few players will leave the club and our partial takeover had been resolved.
Their season ended in disappointment, but they can build on that and can have a great next season.
United, on the other hand, had to save the season by winning the FA Cup and getting into Europe.
Our only saving grace is we have our players back from injury, a few players will leave the club and our partial takeover had been resolved.
As I said in one of the previous quotes we can't put all fans in the same bracket. There no doubt will be different opinions, I'm expressing my own and others from that circle.
I do remember finals more than season long competitions and I think it's natural most to do the same.
Out of our treble year I do remember more CL games and FA cup games more than our season form. Same in 08. I do also remember the FA cup loss when Scholes missed that peno against Arsenal, etc.