Which manager left the team in the worst state?

Which manager left the team in a worse state?

  • Total voters
    729
  • Poll closed .
Ole
1. He was a total puppet for the board, he got what he was given and liked it.
2. He killed the “United way” by playing counter attacking football at home and away.
3. Started the “Player Power” culture as players became to comfy and seemed to do what they wanted.
4. Took Old Trafford from a fortress to making teams believe they could get 3 points.
5. Picked his mates with no real credentials as coaching staff.
6. Got rid of not so great players with high wages and brought in other not so great players with high wages.
7. And the 7th deadly sin, He created Mcfred.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Did he? He did fecking shite with this squad actually.
Last season though, which his best by far, he took a different shit squad to 74 points. That’s 1.95 points per game, his best ever haul after managing and coaching these players for a few years.
Ragnick has come in and taken 1.74 per game despite not knowing the players, having no pre-season and not a single say in a player of his liking. That over 38 games would be a 66 point season, the same fecking haul managed in his two other full seasons.

So no, Ole didn’t do okay with a shite squad, he helped build a shite squad, took 66 points, 66 points, 74 points and then went into freefall.

He did fecking wank.
Click to expand...
So the Goldilocks - ole both built a bad team and did badly coming second with a bad team. Fair enough. You have your thoughts on this, I have mine.
 
It was Ole for splashing 130m on 2 players who wouldn’t even qualify for City or pool bench options. And making one of them as a captain who is not good enough for the price tag and expectations.

I don’t think Ole ever wanted Ronaldo, it was woodward’s commercial move.
 
Ole for me in the premier league era but we have had worse for those who can remember Frank O'Farrell.


 
I voted Ole, but I feel like my opinion is influenced too much by recency bias. I felt the same way about LVG's signings as I do about Ole's now. Also, the fact that we got in a Lokomotiv Moscow's DoF as an interim has made things worse, because I see a lot of people pinning Ralf's incompetence on Ole.
 
VP89 said:
Makes me laugh but also annoyed to see this level of idiocy. Mourinho wins said European final, gets to 2nd place thats 7 points higher than Oles, but is somehow marked as worse :lol:

Ole was absolutely wank, he zapped winning mentality from the club and even when big rivals had their own crisis, they were able to recover and beat his accolades in quick time.

I have never seen such ineptitude from a manager.
Click to expand...
Apologies @Rood this post was a bit rude!
 
Patrick Astwood said:
This may sound controversial and counter-intuitive, but I always maintain that it was Ferguson that left the team in a bad state. The succession following Ferguson was the most important decision the club had to make in years, and they flunked it by allowing Ferguson to make the hubristic decision of appointing a mini-me, David Moyes. Ferguson wrongly imagined that lightning would strike twice in the same place and we all know how that went. Had Ferguson given the club enough notice and time to plan and research properly, we would not be in this state.
Click to expand...

It’s a very good point and one that is often overlooked. In most businesses the top people have to give at least one year’s notice. For Sir Alex to give the club less than two months to find a replacement, and then the double hit of David Gill going at the same time. United had no opportunity to plan properly.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
So the Goldilocks - ole both built a bad team and did badly coming second with a bad team. Fair enough. You have your thoughts on this, I have mine.
Click to expand...

No, I didn’t say badly, I pointed out that he managed 8 points more for his best season than what Ragnick is currenly projecting.

Do we completely ignore the two 66 points season and the absolute farcical write off he lead us to in his fourth full season.

If that one very average 74 point season leads you to somehow believe he did well, despite what followed it, well feck me there’s zero hope.
 
VP89 said:
Im adressing your own logic that pointed to Oles league finishes and a European final.

We can also discuss how he left the next manager with AWB, Maguire who can't be shifted. VDB and never played him, Ronaldo who wasn't even needed, etc etc.

We can also discuss how he by his own admission doesn't even value tactics. It was lunacy. He had no CV to fall back on, he was an absolute liability as a manager.
Click to expand...

The thing is you can't have it both ways because either Ole is a crap manager and therefore underperformed with the strong squad he had or he built a crap squad and therefore did an incredible job to get them to 2nd place and a penalty away from a trophy

There is no logic that squares back to back Top 4 finishes with being a crap manager AND having a shit squad
 
Rood said:
The thing is you can't have it both ways because either Ole is a crap manager and therefore underperformed with the strong squad he had or he built a crap squad and therefore did an incredible job to get them to 2nd place and a penalty away from a trophy

There is no logic that squares back to back Top 4 finishes with being a crap manager AND having a shit squad
Click to expand...
There is, because the only season he performed well was the consequence of an empty stadium season and crisis at 3 of his rivals. As soon as they got their act together with new managers / welcomed back an actual defence, he was caught out.

The away record disappeared not long into a normal season, Liverpool lost most center backs and still recovered to finish close-ish to us. In fact, in 2.5 years he still finished double digits off City despite spending hundreds of millions.

The gripe with him is whatever system he could field for results, was not sustainable enough for silverware and would at best put him in the top 4 or, in a normal scenario, scrape top 4.

On top of that the mentality worsened, they bottled semis and finals. They had thin skin, bigger egos that were left unchecked. And its caused a toxic environment that will take many months and a couple windows to solve.
 
Sneaky attempt by the mods to identify ole inners by seeing who voted for rangnick.
 
Patrick Astwood said:
This may sound controversial and counter-intuitive, but I always maintain that it was Ferguson that left the team in a bad state. The succession following Ferguson was the most important decision the club had to make in years, and they flunked it by allowing Ferguson to make the hubristic decision of appointing a mini-me, David Moyes. Ferguson wrongly imagined that lightning would strike twice in the same place and we all know how that went. Had Ferguson given the club enough notice and time to plan and research properly, we would not be in this state.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know what SAF was about those final few years. He kept saying no value when so many generational talents were available. To make matters worse they would all go to our rivals and spend the next 10 years torching us. Same thing would repeat itself with managers. He was like a grandma who was comparing current prices to his own time.
 
"Crap" is relative I think.

Is this squad good enough to challenge for a title? Nowhere near. But it is definitely good enough for a top four spot, or at least it was last season and possibly at the start of this season. Even having completely imploded on the managerial front, we're still surprisingly not that far off.

And if you look at last season under Ole, the underlying stats pointed to us being the fourth best team in the league too. It was effectively a fourth place season in terms of actual performance levels that got exaggerated to second because of external factors, which can happen.

Same with Ole. He was crap in the sense that he was never good enough to be United manager. But he wasn't so crap that once appointed manager he couldn't get the team playing like the fourth best in the league if given large amounts of time and money.

However, just saying it is (or is close to being) a top four squad this season underplays the issues it faces going forward into next season. First, a large swathe of players are now leaving or looking to leave, the most I can remember since I started supporting United. Second, one of our key positions (CF) is entirely manned by a 37 year old and an injury-prone 35 year old who is among those leaving. And third, the brand of football these players were trained in for years under Ole isn't condusive to stepping up a level under a better manager and now needs to be transitioned out of.
 
I was so excited when Olé got the job. I believe in that Pep, Zizou destiny.

Here I voted Olé without hesitation.
 
Ole is 100% to blame for the state of the squad, the lack of fitness and lack of tactical input.

However I’ve voted Rangnick as he seems to have totally destroyed the squad mentally. I’ve never seen a squad so unhappy and dejected.
 
Garethw said:
Ole is 100% to blame for the state of the squad, the lack of fitness and lack of tactical input.

However I’ve voted Rangnick as he seems to have totally destroyed the squad mentally. I’ve never seen a squad so unhappy and dejected.
Click to expand...

Maybe in hindsight it's a good thing. None of them were willing to put in the hard work for modern football. Now the new manager knows who are the spivs and the real players.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
M

Nar, Ole’s taking heat because he was fortunate enough to take over a side that recently and deservedly finish a distant 2nd, with 80 plus points. And took over a team that had won a cup double the previous season.

Ole left an utter shit show that most people knew was an utterly false league position, and a squad that could barely remember what a trophy looks like.

To spin that into Ole taking heat because his caretaker wasn’t as good as him is some doing, in his final 22 games with his own fecking squad he managed:

9 losses, 5 draws (including a EL loss) and 7 wins.

Ragnick has been “meh”, absolutely, but still managed in his 22 games:

4 losses, 9 draws, 9 wins.

If “Ole the caretaker” had taken over this squad, we’d be down there with Leicester.
Click to expand...

Complete and utter bollocks. Took over a team that won cup double in the previous season? We got shitted on by Sevilla in the CL, kicked out of the league cup by Bristol fecking City and deservedly lost in the FA cup against Chelsea. That's what happened in the previous season. Cup double my foot. Not even Trump resorts to such obvious fake news.

So Jose "deservedly finished a distant 2nd". He finished 4 points ahead of Spurs in 3rd. Booted out of Europe in early March so had 2.5 months where he could focus on the PL. This was also before Liverpool were any good. Ole finishes 2nd and it's "utterly false league position". He finished 5 points ahead of Liverpool in 3rd. That gap would've been even bigger had he also had 2.5 months where he could focus on the PL. The last 6 or so games 2nd place was secured and players were on the beach. We also had to play 3 league games in 5 days.

So Ole left us with a shit squad. And he's a shit manager because finishing 2nd with said shit squad is an 'utterly false position'. Which one is it? You don't finish 2nd after 38 games in the Premier League if both the squad and the manager are shit. You're just proving my point with this crap logic of yours.

Ole was rightfully sacked, not a single person will disagree with that. The fact that you're using his downfall period and comparing it to Ralf is laughable. The whole point of a caretaker is to turn the tide and bring in fresh ideas. You're supposed to get a bounce. These fresh ideas have resulted in a 40 % win percentage. And you're trying to glorify that 40 % win percentage. "Still managed" ffs :lol:

You were the same guy gloating about Ralf having 2 PPG a couple of months ago and how that would mean top 4 over a full season. Completely ignoring the piss easy fixture list and the fact we hadn't faced a single decent team under him until that point. And you have the audacity to talk about 'utterly false league positions'. Can't make this up.

Thankfully this dreadful Ralf experiment ends next month. Yes he didn't build the squad but his ability to motivate players is truly awful.
 
Samid said:
Complete and utter bollocks. Took over a team that won cup double in the previous season? We got shitted on by Sevilla in the CL, kicked out of the league cup by Bristol fecking City and deservedly lost in the FA cup against Chelsea. That's what happened in the previous season. Cup double my foot. Not even Trump resorts to such obvious fake news.

So Jose "deservedly finished a distant 2nd". He finished 4 points ahead of Spurs in 3rd. Booted out of Europe in early March so had 2.5 months where he could focus on the PL. This was also before Liverpool were any good. Ole finishes 2nd and it's "utterly false league position". He finished 5 points ahead of Liverpool in 3rd. That gap would've been even bigger had he also had 2.5 months where he could focus on the PL. The last 6 or so games 2nd place was secured and players were on the beach. We also had to play 3 league games in 5 days.

So Ole left us with a shit squad. And he's a shit manager because finishing 2nd with said shit squad is an 'utterly false position'. Which one is it? You don't finish 2nd after 38 games in the Premier League if both the squad and the manager are shit. You're just proving my point with this crap logic of yours.

Ole was rightfully sacked, not a single person will disagree with that. The fact that you're using his downfall period and comparing it to Ralf is laughable. The whole point of a caretaker is to turn the tide and bring in fresh ideas. You're supposed to get a bounce. These fresh ideas have resulted in a 40 % win percentage. And you're trying to glorify that 40 % win percentage. "Still managed" ffs :lol:

You were the same guy gloating about Ralf having 2 PPG a couple of months ago and how that would mean top 4 over a full season. Completely ignoring the piss easy fixture list and the fact we hadn't faced a single decent team under him until that point. And you have the audacity to talk about 'utterly false league positions'. Can't make this up.

Thankfully this dreadful Ralf experiment ends next month. Yes he didn't build the squad but his ability to motivate players is truly awful.
Click to expand...
Leave it mate. Ole not worth to be cheered. Yes he is good for players who don't want to do hard yards. He spent more than Jose and had more time to correct things. But he lacked the ruthlessness in manager to manage big egos in big clubs.

He gave needless extentions to players like Jones,mata. Thats really bad for your squad. Rewarded for mediocrity will not make you great and he did exactly that.

Jose may not be fit for United but he did fight for United s goodness. He stood up to those putting lifestyle before actual football and demanding more from them. He eventually lost the battle but you can't fault his intentions.
 
Patrick Astwood said:
This may sound controversial and counter-intuitive, but I always maintain that it was Ferguson that left the team in a bad state. The succession following Ferguson was the most important decision the club had to make in years, and they flunked it by allowing Ferguson to make the hubristic decision of appointing a mini-me, David Moyes. Ferguson wrongly imagined that lightning would strike twice in the same place and we all know how that went. Had Ferguson given the club enough notice and time to plan and research properly, we would not be in this state.
Click to expand...

Ferguson gave Moyes a good player in Zaha, which he chose not to use and who would still start for us 9 years later. There were more young players and useful players set up to use there than is given credit for. Van Persie was 29. Benzema and Lewandowski are lighting it up at 33 and 34. People say Van Persie was an indulgent signing and he was but he can't have known he would be washed up within 3 years of signing him. Ferguson also set it up for the club to get rid of Wayne Rooney, which again was a right call given Rooney's decline was starting.

Also Moyes was not Ferguson's first choice, think he was 3rd or 4th choice. He was right to say "back the manager" after his own personal experience. It wasn't hubristic, that's being revisionist. Moyes had done a good job at Everton. And Moyes is currently doing a good job at West Ham, they're ahead of us in the table with less than half the budget. The biggest error United made then in my opinion is having Moyes go in with Woodward at the same time. David Gill should have stayed another year, or Ferguson stay another year. The two of them gone at once was a disaster. Moyes is good at picking players. Again look at some of his pickups at Everton and West Ham. He was about to buy Toni Kroos if he stayed (van Gaal cancelled the transfer) and was interested in Fabregas. Fabregas then won the league with Chelsea with a pivotal role. Kroos has been a generational midfielder. But Woodward was absolutely useless and inexperienced at acquiring players at that point in time.
 
The question is ultimately a little silly in my opinion as no manager that has just been sacked leaves the club in anything but a bad state (well maybe unless you're Madrid or Chelsea)

Anyway, all bad in their own way... I have said this before but in Van Gaal's final season his top scorer (Martial) scored 11 league goals. That's unforgiveable for United in the modern game.

Ronaldo under Ole and Rangnick has already scored more than 11 league goals.

Between Moyes and Van Gaal for me. Mourinho's toxicity was even more of a problem than his poor results. Van Gaal's brand of football was even worse than Mourinho's which is truly amazing
 
Paul_Scholes18 said:
Van Gaal ruined the squad the most I say.

Pretty much all of his signings failed.

We thought Martial was good though, but he was not.
Click to expand...

I would say the opposite and Van Gaal left us in the best shape. After winning the fa cup in his final season we went on to win further trophies the following session. Also he probably wouldn't have been sacked if we hadn't signed Mourinho which was a perceived upgrade at the time.
 
Rood said:
The thing is you can't have it both ways because either Ole is a crap manager and therefore underperformed with the strong squad he had or he built a crap squad and therefore did an incredible job to get them to 2nd place and a penalty away from a trophy

There is no logic that squares back to back Top 4 finishes with being a crap manager AND having a shit squad
Click to expand...

When will people stop mentioning this as some sort of a success ? We crashed from CL group in an embarrassing way to play the rest of the season in EL. The least I'll expect will be to win this 2nd tier competition and we even failed to do that against a team who have never won a trophy before facing us in this final.

Ole was an awful coach because he splashed ton of millions and won absolutely nothing in return. Finishing 2nd and 3rd with 74 and 66 points without putting any meaningful title challenge, and failing to win even 2nd tier trophies like EL isn't the target for Man United. The managers before him won those 2nd tier trophies and finished top 4 with higher points tally. He added nothing to the table. He did nothing more than LVG and Mourinho did, they did more in fact.

When we were saying that with him in charge, people kept on saying "but he made a cultural reset and improved the mentality of the team at least". Turns out he didn't, the mentality of the team is still as garbage or toxic as ever.

Considering the amount of money and resources spent and the net result we got in return, Ole was indeed a huge failure, from every single perspective. Back to back top 4 my arse.
 
Clearly Ole with Jose a close second, was listening to Alex Crook on TS earlier, 4 years ago Ole said after the defeat at Everton, some of these players won’t be here next season, 9 of them still there and 6 started yesterday…unbelievable!
 
SeanyC said:
Clearly Ole with Jose a close second, was listening to Alex Crook on TS earlier, 4 years ago Ole said after the defeat at Everton, some of these players won’t be here next season, 9 of them still there and 6 started yesterday…unbelievable!
Click to expand...
That is a remarkable stat. If this doesn’t tell you Ole and the entire club have sleepwalked into this dire situation over the last 3 years, nothing will.
 
justboy68 said:
Moyes left us in the lowest state relative to what he took over. Ole has left us in the worst overall. This is the lowest United have been in many of our lifetimes. But the Glazers and the group of players are far more to blame than any manager.
Click to expand...

Those yankee leeches put a dagger into this club 17 years ago and still twisting it
 
VP89 said:
Makes me laugh but also annoyed to see this level of idiocy. Mourinho wins said European final, gets to 2nd place thats 7 points higher than Oles, but is somehow marked as worse :lol:

Ole was absolutely wank, he zapped winning mentality from the club and even when big rivals had their own crisis, they were able to recover and beat his accolades in quick time.

I have never seen such ineptitude from a manager.
Click to expand...
I actually kind of agree and I hated Jose. Not on the idiot part but for some reason the squad Jose left is the one from his final season while the one Ole left is the one from his peak season. There's moving the goalpost then there's completely uprooting it. Use the same reference points if you're going to directly compare the two. Lastly Ole losing the European final via choking the CL group stage isn't better than qualifying and losing the CL KO round to Sevilla. We're splitting hairs when we talk about whose fail ranks higher but there's no way the former beats out the latter.
 
Last edited:
With each new manager, one has the benefit of hindsight and a greater appreciation of the scale of the problem at hand.

With LVG's appointment, who would have thought we'd still, after 6 years, be as mediocre and maybe even worse than we were back then?

I do think that RR's current interim tenure is more beneficial in exposing the cracks in the squad and torrid mentality as he has no prior history with the club and therefor no overarching bias. So, all in all, the gradual decline in our performances and results is an affirmation of what needs to change which is what RR's job scope will eventually cover as a consultant.
 
Stack said:
Damage isnt just a function of who buys and sells. This clown hasnt improved a single thing, in fact in terms of how we are playing we are now getting worse.
Click to expand...

And I think that's because RR came with tactical plan and approach which these players aren't suited to playing. With Ole, it was counter attacking galore and 'hit and hope' football. Players were given free reign to an extent.
 
MadMike said:
I don't understand why an interim manager with no power to make signings (talking about Rangnick) was added to this list. Might as well add Carrick and Giggs on the list then.

On the other hand, perhaps controversially, I think we should add SAF to the list. Yes he did win the league in 2012/13, but that was more of a testament to his managerial ability (and weakness of rivals that season), than the strength of the squad. It wasn't a squad that could challenge Man City or Chelsea going forward without significant investment.
Click to expand...

He's not responsible for 10 years planning beyond his retirement. That's for the next manager.

Although he appointed us moyes that sets a domino effect.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.