Rangnick as an option is just silly.
Which manager left the team in the worst state?
- Thread starter sullydnl
- Start date
The excuses keep coming
spot on. Ole’s legacy is pure disaster.
I’d be tempted to take Darmian over AWB and Fellaini over McTominay. And I’d definitely take Depay over Rashford, given the precipitous drop in Rashford’s game.
and that’s not even mentioning the renewals for Jones, Matic, Martial, and Mata, nor the decision to give Maguire the captaincy, nor the promising of game time to the idiot that is Lingard, nor the criminal overuse of the likes of Rashford and Bruno. An absolute fraud of a manager.
I prefer to look at this question more holistically. The structure above them is obviously the main problem here.
Each new manager is basically just adding a layer of shit to a gigantic cake of shit, so it stands to reason the shit cake is going to get progressively shittier until it eventually caves in on itself.
We're probably in the worst state of readiness for the next manager right now. Ole takes a good chunk of the blame for that, but certainly not all of it.
My answer is Ole, but with a caveat that he got dealt the worst hand on account of him coming last.
Each new manager is basically just adding a layer of shit to a gigantic cake of shit, so it stands to reason the shit cake is going to get progressively shittier until it eventually caves in on itself.
We're probably in the worst state of readiness for the next manager right now. Ole takes a good chunk of the blame for that, but certainly not all of it.
My answer is Ole, but with a caveat that he got dealt the worst hand on account of him coming last.
For the money AWB and Maguire are disaster signings comparatively being they are no better than Darmian or Rojo. Depay no worse than Dan James. Bastian no worse than DVB. In fact I’d argue DVB is as bad as any signing we’ve made post-Fergie.
Also makes no sense attributing Januzaj to LVG or Rashford to Ole. If anything the best form of Martial and Rashford was seen under LVG. Meanwhile Ole pissed away massive wages re-upping those two and bringing in the dinosaurs Cavani and Ronaldo.
The long and short of it is that Ole spent a fecking bomb comparatively and we have only Bruno, Sancho and Varane to show for it. Never mind the fact that those three were club signings whereas Ole pushed for the Brexit brigade.
Based on recent performances, it's easy to say Ole. However I refuse to believe that our players are that bad. I bet that if these players played in a well coached Guardiola- or Klopp- team, they would look so much better and this discussion wouldn't exist. The players are looking so much worse due to bad coaching and all time low confidence.
I didn't make the poll, not sure why Rangnick was included when he's an interim manager either.
We need an all of the above option because like I said you can legitimately make a case for all of them. Literally arguing over who was the least shit.
Ole by far. Although the Greenwood thing compounded the situation which Ole can't be blamed for to be fair to him.
Also I think Ole has had one good signing in Bruno. The rest have failed miserably for one reason or another.
Though similar happened with other managers.
Also I think Ole has had one good signing in Bruno. The rest have failed miserably for one reason or another.
Though similar happened with other managers.
Jose left us in the worst state by absolute miles.
Absolute cretin of a manager, not one Jose signing worked and he alienated and destroyed so many players confidence and morale.
But that being said, it's one crap decision after another with our board. Our structure is the biggest issue - we are a rotten club with no clue how to operrate in todays game
Absolute cretin of a manager, not one Jose signing worked and he alienated and destroyed so many players confidence and morale.
But that being said, it's one crap decision after another with our board. Our structure is the biggest issue - we are a rotten club with no clue how to operrate in todays game
Agree - I think but for that chaos it would never have allowed.
Yeah many feel that made him take his eye off the ball and gave them an opportunity
Complete and utter bollocks. Took over a team that won cup double in the previous season? We got shitted on by Sevilla in the CL, kicked out of the league cup by Bristol fecking City and deservedly lost in the FA cup against Chelsea. That's what happened in the previous season. Cup double my foot. Not even Trump resorts to such obvious fake news.
So Jose "deservedly finished a distant 2nd". He finished 4 points ahead of Spurs in 3rd. Booted out of Europe in early March so had 2.5 months where he could focus on the PL. This was also before Liverpool were any good. Ole finishes 2nd and it's "utterly false league position". He finished 5 points ahead of Liverpool in 3rd. That gap would've been even bigger had he also had 2.5 months where he could focus on the PL. The last 6 or so games 2nd place was secured and players were on the beach. We also had to play 3 league games in 5 days.
So Ole left us with a shit squad. And he's a shit manager because finishing 2nd with said shit squad is an 'utterly false position'. Which one is it? You don't finish 2nd after 38 games in the Premier League if both the squad and the manager are shit. You're just proving my point with this crap logic of yours.
Ole was rightfully sacked, not a single person will disagree with that. The fact that you're using his downfall period and comparing it to Ralf is laughable. The whole point of a caretaker is to turn the tide and bring in fresh ideas. You're supposed to get a bounce. These fresh ideas have resulted in a 40 % win percentage. And you're trying to glorify that 40 % win percentage. "Still managed" ffs
You were the same guy gloating about Ralf having 2 PPG a couple of months ago and how that would mean top 4 over a full season. Completely ignoring the piss easy fixture list and the fact we hadn't faced a single decent team under him until that point. And you have the audacity to talk about 'utterly false league positions'. Can't make this up.
Thankfully this dreadful Ralf experiment ends next month. Yes he didn't build the squad but his ability to motivate players is truly awful.
This confuses me. I'm guessing it's a copy paste of a different post?
Totally agree, although it could be argued that Ole deserves some credit for Rashford's impressive pre-Covid form, and Martial's good showing in that same season. He also deserves some credit for getting Shaw to perform last year. But then I also feel he let Shaw get complacent this season.
No idea, but it's all sorts of mental. You can tell the part about "Ole being deservedly sacked" was typed through a flood of hysterical tears.
The only thing that was holding the current squad back was the manager. That was the widely held opinion on here in November anyway
The revisionism is off the charts. They also went from the most likeable group of players to the most hated in the space
Still Moyes; 2013-14 was a huge slap to the face and a huge piece of humble pie.
2021-22 is puzzling in its mediocrity. The squad is good enough for Top4.
2021-22 is puzzling in its mediocrity. The squad is good enough for Top4.
the "kindest" thing I can say is that is reads like a parody.
The spirit of OleBoiii lives on through 4 or 5 posters; it's touching to see.
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It's still Van Gaal.
Mourinho left us in a shambles, but that was his own doing despite what his still-existent cult will tell you (three years later) about him having been "right all along" about our players. The instant improvement as soon as he was canned spoke volumes - it was a good squad punching well below its weight (our recruitment in summer 2019 arguably weakened it, but that's a different story).
Same goes for Solskjaer. Not having this revisionism after sitting through five months of Rangnick's clueless football - at the start of the season, we were overwhelming favourites to finish at least 4th, and rightly so. Yes, we're in a worse state now than it seemed in August (primarily up front since Cavani is on holiday all season, Rashford is broken, Greenwood is a bastard, and Ronaldo fell off a cliff after the new year) but there's still plenty of quality in this squad for a good coach to work with.
Mourinho left us in a shambles, but that was his own doing despite what his still-existent cult will tell you (three years later) about him having been "right all along" about our players. The instant improvement as soon as he was canned spoke volumes - it was a good squad punching well below its weight (our recruitment in summer 2019 arguably weakened it, but that's a different story).
Same goes for Solskjaer. Not having this revisionism after sitting through five months of Rangnick's clueless football - at the start of the season, we were overwhelming favourites to finish at least 4th, and rightly so. Yes, we're in a worse state now than it seemed in August (primarily up front since Cavani is on holiday all season, Rashford is broken, Greenwood is a bastard, and Ronaldo fell off a cliff after the new year) but there's still plenty of quality in this squad for a good coach to work with.
For me it's SAF.
Then Van gaal.
Then Van gaal.
Its Van Gaal really he spent a fortune on not very much and he let very much United players go for a pittance.
Selling Evans and Rafael for peanuts replacing them with Darmian and Rojo i mean wtf, Schneiderlin doesnt need anything adding to this, Memphis and Di Maria criminally misused then sold for losses, Schweinsteiger signed on massive wages despite being physically finished as a player.
Van Gaal signed 13 players for us you could count maybe 2 as a success whilst simultaneously gutting the team of some of the type of players we still need now characters and players willing to fight for the shirt who also have quality.
Selling Evans and Rafael for peanuts replacing them with Darmian and Rojo i mean wtf, Schneiderlin doesnt need anything adding to this, Memphis and Di Maria criminally misused then sold for losses, Schweinsteiger signed on massive wages despite being physically finished as a player.
Van Gaal signed 13 players for us you could count maybe 2 as a success whilst simultaneously gutting the team of some of the type of players we still need now characters and players willing to fight for the shirt who also have quality.
Moyes for me is a symbol of turning us from the dominant force into shambless.
The rest just continued what Moyes caused and couldn't bring us back.
The rest just continued what Moyes caused and couldn't bring us back.
How in hell did Rangnick totally destroy the squad mentality? How could he have destroyed something that was already destroyed?
If you had of said Ralf tried his best to help us back on track but the players were too gutless to co operate then you may have had a point. Blaming him for years and years of terrible management after 4 months in charge isn't logical.
Spot on. Especially 3 and 5.
The mess started when United appointed LVG. He brought over 30 players to United: players like Falcao, Maria, Blind, Schneiderlin, Rojo, Darmian, Martial and Schweinsteiger. He brought United in a direction which was a serious breach of our tradition and our squad has been a mess ever since.
So my answer is definitely LVG. The mess LVG created has been hunting every manager after him, also Rangnick.
The main problem though is that United isn’t able to get rid of players. Many players have stayed since 2014/15, and that isn’t normal when most of them aren’t key players and we have changed manager three times
So my answer is definitely LVG. The mess LVG created has been hunting every manager after him, also Rangnick.
The main problem though is that United isn’t able to get rid of players. Many players have stayed since 2014/15, and that isn’t normal when most of them aren’t key players and we have changed manager three times
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A shit ton of recency bias here. Also, everyone who wanted Ole out (me too after Liverpool), feels compelled to double down on that just so they can be “right”.
If you go back to last season and look at the posts, there was the most positivity about Ole and the squad since SAF, with only Jose’s 2nd season possibly those highs.
Maguire and AWB were continuously lauded for great play and being astute buys. Rashford was performing at a high level and Ole even got a tune out of Martial.
The worst manager, BY FAR, has been Rangnick. The squad is in shambles tactically and mentally, and he has the worst record of any United manager since Dave Sexton, 41 years ago. And he hasn’t bought a single soul, plus shipped off players on loan, hasn’t blooded any youngsters and alienated the dressing room with the Martial and Lingard feck ups. Looking forward to watching Rangnick get a job in the Bundesliga 2 or Austrian league and watching him slowly fade away in the world of football.
So, let’s say ETH comes in with 2 to 3 new signings and we actually get 3rd or 4th in the table with roughly the same squad… guess that will show what a fraud Ralf is…
If you go back to last season and look at the posts, there was the most positivity about Ole and the squad since SAF, with only Jose’s 2nd season possibly those highs.
Maguire and AWB were continuously lauded for great play and being astute buys. Rashford was performing at a high level and Ole even got a tune out of Martial.
The worst manager, BY FAR, has been Rangnick. The squad is in shambles tactically and mentally, and he has the worst record of any United manager since Dave Sexton, 41 years ago. And he hasn’t bought a single soul, plus shipped off players on loan, hasn’t blooded any youngsters and alienated the dressing room with the Martial and Lingard feck ups. Looking forward to watching Rangnick get a job in the Bundesliga 2 or Austrian league and watching him slowly fade away in the world of football.
So, let’s say ETH comes in with 2 to 3 new signings and we actually get 3rd or 4th in the table with roughly the same squad… guess that will show what a fraud Ralf is…
The job of Ralf was to build up the mentality of the squad after the Liverpool and Watford losses. I’ll continue to maintain that there is too much talent in this squad to be this bad. I see naive tactics, lack of man management, poor coaching (Armas) and dressing room issues, all of which are at least somewhat down to the manager.
Do you also see flying pigs? You might as well because our players are not following instructions, no matter what manager is in charge.
Reminds me very much of Jose's sacking at Chelsea the 2nd time round. The players gave up for the full season.
Isn't it splitting hairs really? The current situation is pretty much the sum of the decisions taken by all of these men, as well as the overarching decisions taken by the hierarchy itself (most importantly).
For example, yes, van Gaal is pretty remote from the current squad composition and style of play. But he still frittered away huge sums, and instilled dire football that left the next manager with an awful clean up operation.
Every new manager that comes in faces a colossal job at the moment, they pretty much start on the back foot. Any manager would prefer to come into a squad that has a decent core of players, sensible composition in terms of age, consistent recruitment methods. Even if recent results are poor. Very few of the recent incumbents walk into a healthy situation because of the poor job of those that preceded.
I would say they've all done a shoddy job and left us in a bad state. Ole is the most recent one and springs to mind for that reason but it's not clear to me that we were any better when the others left.
For example, yes, van Gaal is pretty remote from the current squad composition and style of play. But he still frittered away huge sums, and instilled dire football that left the next manager with an awful clean up operation.
Every new manager that comes in faces a colossal job at the moment, they pretty much start on the back foot. Any manager would prefer to come into a squad that has a decent core of players, sensible composition in terms of age, consistent recruitment methods. Even if recent results are poor. Very few of the recent incumbents walk into a healthy situation because of the poor job of those that preceded.
I would say they've all done a shoddy job and left us in a bad state. Ole is the most recent one and springs to mind for that reason but it's not clear to me that we were any better when the others left.
He bought badly but gutting the team was absolutely the correct decision, the players he got rid of weren't of the required quality or were finished and about to retire. Someone like Rafael had been finished for years now and he's still only 31.
Most of LVG's signings anyway didn't come on high wages and that's exactly why the club was able to sell the likes of Schneiderlin, Depay, and Blind while barely losing any money. The same could've happened with Rojo if the club didn't stupidly renew his contract.
You have NO IDEA if this is the case, and neither do I.
Three possibilities:
1. The players are not following instructions — I see that as a Ralf issue, at least partly. His job is to get buy in from players. Man management.
2. The players are following his instructions, but his instructions are shit. This is all Ralf.
3. The players are confused by his instructions, his training / video sessions aren’t good enough to allow them to absorb his tactics and execute them adequately. This is mostly Ralf.
Many of the players in the squad are incredibly accomplished. The amount of hard work required to reach this level is so much, it’s hard for fans to fathom. You have to have an incredible amount of competitive spirit and a love of football to reach this pinnacle and stay there. Furthermore, they are playing for new contracts, money is on The table in many cases. I’d be floored if the entire squad just agreed to mail it in. IF they did, I believe that reflects even more poorly on Ralf. Has he been so bad that he took a player that has an argument for being the GOAT, whose dedication to his craft has NEVER been questioned, and turned him into a player who is purposely tanking in matches instead of chasing an even greater legacy???
Like others on here I was never happy with the Ole appointment but I would have been more than happy to be proved wrong.
As a life long United supporter I realise the importance of giving players time to bed in Andy Cole and Evra spring to mind, so we gave Maguire and AWB time but they just haven’t kicked on.
I am not saying Rangnick has done a good Job but to be honest he was destined to fail, if you inherit a bunch of players that have virtually done what they like for a couple of seasons and then tell them that now all that’s going to change but I’m here for half a season then a new guys going to come in and change it again, what would you do?
If I was ETH I would only come here under certain conditions and my conditions would be pretty big for the board, the problem is will the board bow to his conditions?
For me, Ole left our squad in the worst possible emotional state and professionalism state. The squad quality isn’t great either. Majority of our squad have absolutely no respect towards their employer (our club) or their manager/s. They have gotten to a state where nothing seem to matter to them playing for this club that we love!
I’ll also have to say that SAF did leave the next managers with an aging squad. It really showed his managerial abilities to squeeze every bit out of that squad. I don’t think it is his fault that he left the next managers with that squad considering how he’s probably had to stay within a small budget during those early years of the Glazer ownership.
Moyes killed us by removing all the knowledgeable backroom staff.
Van Gaal was an attempt at building something that suits him but never really got there due to style of play and impatience from fan base and the upper management structure. I’m not sure if he got the players that he wanted either. So, he left us with a project half way through and not here nor there. Wasn’t all bad but state of the squad was kind of all over the place.
Jose was an attempt to build something that could win something right away while also laying down additional pieces for a longer term objective. I’ll have to say he did achieve that but when he wasn’t seeing the investment or the support that would allow him to achieve his objectives, he was done and basically just asking for the sacking. I don’t think he left us in a very bad state at all squad-wise. The fact that we immediately saw a bounce when we got Ole in as a caretaker shows that the squad wasn’t bad. They were just not wanting to work as hard as Jose wanted to win. We’re seeing some of those characters and personalities come to the fore front now.
I don’t think we can blame RR for the state of the squad. He is dealing with half the team not even wanting to try because these players might as well have a foot out the door as of right now.
Having said all the above, the club and its structure is culpable and the constant in all of the above issues. Unless we can hire a qualified and proven manager and fully back that manager for several years with proper investment and authority, we are looking at years of mediocrity, I’m afraid. And I am really afraid to see how much lower we would get before we see better days.
I’ll also have to say that SAF did leave the next managers with an aging squad. It really showed his managerial abilities to squeeze every bit out of that squad. I don’t think it is his fault that he left the next managers with that squad considering how he’s probably had to stay within a small budget during those early years of the Glazer ownership.
Moyes killed us by removing all the knowledgeable backroom staff.
Van Gaal was an attempt at building something that suits him but never really got there due to style of play and impatience from fan base and the upper management structure. I’m not sure if he got the players that he wanted either. So, he left us with a project half way through and not here nor there. Wasn’t all bad but state of the squad was kind of all over the place.
Jose was an attempt to build something that could win something right away while also laying down additional pieces for a longer term objective. I’ll have to say he did achieve that but when he wasn’t seeing the investment or the support that would allow him to achieve his objectives, he was done and basically just asking for the sacking. I don’t think he left us in a very bad state at all squad-wise. The fact that we immediately saw a bounce when we got Ole in as a caretaker shows that the squad wasn’t bad. They were just not wanting to work as hard as Jose wanted to win. We’re seeing some of those characters and personalities come to the fore front now.
I don’t think we can blame RR for the state of the squad. He is dealing with half the team not even wanting to try because these players might as well have a foot out the door as of right now.
Having said all the above, the club and its structure is culpable and the constant in all of the above issues. Unless we can hire a qualified and proven manager and fully back that manager for several years with proper investment and authority, we are looking at years of mediocrity, I’m afraid. And I am really afraid to see how much lower we would get before we see better days.
I think there is a lot of recency bias in this thread/vote. Moyes took over a team that ran away with the league and brought them to 7th buying two players, Fellani and Mata. Fellani had a release clause that Moyes knew about as he wrote his contract but Moyes did not activate the release clause preferring to wait a month and waste an extra £12 million. This is to say nothing of the fact that Fellani was totally unsuited to Utd. Mata was a good buy in fairness although he has stayed far too long.
OGS got this dysfunctional group to second in league and a Europa league final, that we should have won, last season. This season it all went to shit and he was rightly sacked however the panel of players is not that bad. The management of the club, lack of a clear plan and constant kneejerk reactions is the main issue.
And can we not have a caretaker manager again, next time we sack a manager have someone lined up for his job, we turned down Conte to have Ragnick as an interim. Truly one of the daftest decisions in modern football history. Ragnick was hamstrung from the start with the interim title, I hope he gets to remodel the club behind the scenes because by god we need it.
OGS got this dysfunctional group to second in league and a Europa league final, that we should have won, last season. This season it all went to shit and he was rightly sacked however the panel of players is not that bad. The management of the club, lack of a clear plan and constant kneejerk reactions is the main issue.
And can we not have a caretaker manager again, next time we sack a manager have someone lined up for his job, we turned down Conte to have Ragnick as an interim. Truly one of the daftest decisions in modern football history. Ragnick was hamstrung from the start with the interim title, I hope he gets to remodel the club behind the scenes because by god we need it.
In terms of player quality - LVG
In terms of morale - Jose
In terms of coaching, mentality, player contracts, club culture, squad imbalance, captain choice - Ole
Moyes bad, but he was given the least time to do damage. Ole was given the most time despite being the least qualified. So he did the most damage.
In terms of morale - Jose
In terms of coaching, mentality, player contracts, club culture, squad imbalance, captain choice - Ole
Moyes bad, but he was given the least time to do damage. Ole was given the most time despite being the least qualified. So he did the most damage.