Moyes and 'modernizing'. The ironing is so strong
. That article must be some parody or something.What will it take to sack moyes?
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Moyes and 'modernizing'. The ironing is so strong
. That article must be some parody or something.If you were Ed Woodward's lackey preparing a PowerPoint for the next board meeting and had been asked to come up with a pros and cons list and risk assessment on whether Moyes should be given a second season, it would be very hard to come up with any convincing arguments for Moyes other than "Fergie sees something we don't". And, given that United is purely a business for them, it must grate that Moyes seems to require a huge amount of money merely to recover some of the ground that has been lost this season when there are three obvious examples of managers competing on smaller budgets at Atlético, BVB and Liverpool. He might survive due to lack of alternatives (although a heavy defeat at Everton might decide the issue) but, even in that scenario, it would seem rash to let someone so unproven (in fact someone whom the evidence suggests is not good enough) to launch our biggest spending spree since at least the summer of 2007. If they don't sack him, the most likely alternatives seem to be either stagnation with excuses about not being able to reinforce or spending lots of money merely to break the top 4 - which might not be a given either if Liverpool back Rodgers in the summer with heavy spending and Arsenal are revitalised under a new manager. He has to go, surely?
My guess is the decision whether to persist with Moyes or sack him has already been made. If it's the latter, I can't see it happening before the end of the season anyway.
I reckon if there were any candidates who really enthused the decision makers and who were available we would go for it, but I dont think there are.
I agree nothing will happen before the end of the season, even if he is on his way out. There has certainly been enough evidence on which to judge him by now but, in my more pessimistic moods, I wonder whether the 3-0 against Olympiakos combined with rolling over a couple of mediocre teams and avoiding humiliation against Bayern has earned him a reprieve. That's why I mentioned the Everton game - surely another defeat there would put everything into unavoidably clear perspective.
I fear you might be right but, in such circumstances, would you back him in the transfer market or muddle through until the right candidate becomes available?
If I dont back him in the transfer market, what is my other option? Just do nothing? That is no option at all.
I guess the only other option is a medium term, caretaker manager type, a Van Gaal. I guess only a United fan could think of him as being a caretaker, but that seems to be the mindset of the club with all this endless talk (not just from fans but from Charlton, SAF etc) about longevity. Its why I struggle to see us making a U turn so quickly, going from appointing Moyes with a lot of noise about long term this and stability that, to suddenly getting in the first available old geezer with some experience to hold fort.
If there is no way to get Klopp or Simeone or another manager with a bit more about him, Id give Moyes the money. I reckon he can identify good players. I dont think players will resist playing under him (though I think theyll think twice about signing for a team outside the CL). But id do this with little joy in my heart, to be honest if they sack him and get Van Gaal Im not going to protest about it, in fact I would probably feel relieved. Conflicted but ultimately relieved. A safe pair of hands would be no bad thing.
I guess the only other option is a medium term, caretaker manager type, a Van Gaal. I guess only a United fan could think of him as being a caretaker, but that seems to be the mindset of the club with all this endless talk (not just from fans but from Charlton, SAF etc) about longevity. Its why I struggle to see us making a U turn so quickly, going from appointing Moyes with a lot of noise about long term this and stability that, to suddenly getting in the first available old geezer with some experience to hold fort.
If there is no way to get Klopp or Simeone or another manager with a bit more about him, Id give Moyes the money. I reckon he can identify good players. I dont think players will resist playing under him (though I think theyll think twice about signing for a team outside the CL). But id do this with little joy in my heart, to be honest if they sack him and get Van Gaal Im not going to protest about it, in fact I would probably feel relieved. Conflicted but ultimately relieved. A safe pair of hands would be no bad thing.
You're right that not spending and keeping Moyes is not really an option. The interesting thing about Van Gaal is that he is credited for laying a lot of the groundwork for the current Bayern team as well as the great Barca team of the last decade. So even if he were to live up to his reputation and fall out with people at United and leave after 2-3 seasons, he would at least bring in a fresh perspective to what has become quite a conservative institution and potentially set us up for a new era of success. With Moyes I just see managed decline as we at best turn into Arsenal.
Moyes cannot even get top 4 with a title winning team or get them to finish above Everton, so it's worse than Arsenal.
Whether it's a big name manager for 2-3 years or one who will stay for longer and build a 'legacy', first of all they have to be the right person for the job and Moyes certainly is not. That's why we will never go forward with him or get anywhere near where we were before.
Agree. People have become far too focused on "longevity" when the most important factor is whether the manager is good enough. In fact the two go together - if you are good enough, you will most probably stay (there is really only the Big 2 in Spain who might be able to tempt away a successful United manager). The other aspect to this question is why Moyes stayed so long at a second tier club - most logically, either no other big club wanted him or he was happy in a well-remunerated comfort zone.
The other problem is people putting the blame solely on the players and their abilities. It's nonsense. Is Sir Alex the only manager in the world who could get our team playing better? Of course not! But these idiots think he had some magic power over them and everyone else. A big name manager would get a better response from the current team and could handle the pressure. They wouldn't be languishing in 7th, that's for sure.
If they can judge our players on this season's results, why can't they blame the person who is ultimately responsible for them? The manager. Until we get one who the team actually want to play for, we won't know how good they are. And there's reason why people always mention Moyes' lack of silverware. No real record of winning or competing for anything, low expectations and under much less scrutiny. Now, he has a real job and this season proves he's just not up to it. Giving him more time is pointless.
Perhaps you type before you think. Perhaps you really do objectively believe your post. David Moyes has not even had one season yet! These things take time. A new left back, a top quality central defender, a midfielder (the type that Fergie didn't succeed in signing to replace Paul Scholes), and more time for Mr Moyes to adjust. Then we can start to judge the job that DM is doing.
As for Guardiola, he has not taken on the truly unique challenge of taking over from one of the most successful, intimidating and enduring managers of all time, at one of the most scrutinised clubs in the world. Nobody but Mr Moyes has ever done that. I for one am impressed that the Glazers chose the approach of the long-term build.
He's had a season. We're out of all the cups, out of the title race, near-as-feck out of the top four race. We're 7th. If you can't make a judgement based on that, then I worry.
On the contrary, it seems like we are adjusting to him. Lowering our expectations. Putting players under the bus to justify his incompetence. Saying the squad and perhaps even the general state of the club from a footballing perspective is in shambles.
Not just pointing you out, but many here are ready to put the blame on anyone but him. I dislike the way the man has portrayed us as a club who are not good enough. Not only have our performances been dire, but the man sticks the knife into our players to try and lay the blame away from his door. How do you expect people to perform for you if you tell the media half the time that they are not good enough? It is bizarre. His man-management skills are some of the worst I have seen by anyone at a top club.
Because he is rebuilding a crumbling empire, an empire left to rot by the previous manager, or something.And that's what people will have to accept. With Fergie gone, only Wenger and San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich remain as long-serving coaches who earned a good share of success with their respective teams. That brand of managers and coaches who have excellent longevity is almost dead because of how fierce the competition has become in all disciplines.
As you said, the most important thing is that United get something fresh and have a solid system that will be fully operational for a younger manager to work with for years to come. Unless Klopp suddenly says "Hey, I'm available!", I guy like Van Gaal can easily get the job done and revamp the system while putting up a serious challenge every time.
For me, anything that is synonym of lowering expectations" or "Moyes changing United to meet his own level" is unacceptable. The soonest he's sacked, the better everyone will feel despite all the crap that some people will say about "cutting opportunities and shutting doors to British managers". If you suck at your job, you're gone, end of. It's not today that Manchester United should be viewed as a charity institution for local fellas who can't cut it in a cruel and competitive world.
Dunno if that was sarcasm, but I'll call that as a nonsense until said otherwise.
Of course it is.
So perhaps you can simply explain to me how we bought arguably Everton's best player from last season and this year they are doing better than us and look to be getting 4th place whilst we are rotting in 7th place? Do they have a squad of top super stars? Do they boast the some of worlds best/top-class attackers in Rooney, Van Persie, Mata, Kagawa e.t.c? Do you want to make excuses about all the positions in their squad that they are lacking in? No that's what I thought. Compare their squad man for man to ours and stand in astonishment wondering how they are playing a positive, fluid, appealing brand of football whilst challenging for 4th place.
The common denominator is the world-class loser that is David Moyes. Once they rid the club of his dinosaur methods and tactics and got in a positive manager who knows how to play good football instead of holding out for cagey draws and playing hoofball against the top teams, they have improved on the pitch. Yes we need a new midfielder and left back, that doesn't explain how on earth we are declining this badly in 7th place. We have absolutely nothing to play for now thanks to Moyes, who has now lowered our standards so much that next season we seek to win the highly rated 4th place trophy that Arsenal scraped last year.
So Bayern aren't one of the worlds biggest clubs that are constantly under a microscope from the media, and where managers are not put under massive pressure to succeed?
Didn't Moyes just spend 65m on two midfielders?
Where's this amazing scouts from Everton that can unearth Ronaldinhos for pennies?
Where's this amazing scouts from Everton that can unearth Ronaldinhos for pennies?
I see where you're coming form mate, and for the most part i agree. In that situation yeah after 18 months he would deserve the boot.
But i don't know if he survives this summer i just can't see them sacking him half way through next season, thats only a feeling i have though i obviously don't know for certain.
If they did sack him next Xmas it would make their decision to stand by him in the summer look silly, would also look bad that Fergusons successor lasted exactly the same amount of time as Wilf Mcguiness would be history repeating itself.
It would also make their whole succession plans look ill thought out from the start despite them saying they have been working on it for years, a perception im sure they would not be too happy with.
People forget that Moyes lived off Manchester United scraps with regards Everton transfers, for the most part.
I don't know about that, but about the players we sold them, we gave them P.Neville,Saha,Howard & Gibson for a few bob. And then the cheeky feckers got all precious about our ''insulting'' bid for Baines & Fellaini.
Then they reamed us for every penny for Mr Mop Top
Then they reamed us for every penny for Mr Mop Top
He's gone if he fails top four next season. The year after that, if he isn't competing for the league (which is what he should have done this season tbh) then it's unlikely it will ever happen.
Patience would be higher if we started to play well and as a cohesive unit. We are seeing small signs, but at the moment that wont be good enough. Lets hope he has a good summer with the squad and signings.
Patience would be higher if we started to play well and as a cohesive unit. We are seeing small signs, but at the moment that wont be good enough. Lets hope he has a good summer with the squad and signings.
I've just come to the realisation that he's not going anywhere for another season is he
I've just come to the realisation that he's not going anywhere for another season is he
Who knows, anythings possible.
If he does stay comfort yourself with the fact that either we improve significantly or he actually will get sacked. Only so long he can hide behind excuses.
That last line is brilliant.I'm choosing to believe this, at any rate. The secret location part is the clincher.
If only that was in The Times.
C'mon United! I'm so wishing to see this happen. Even if that's not Van Gaal at the end, anything pronouncing divorce with Moyes by June will do my day.
Anyway, please be true.
I'm choosing to believe this, at any rate. The secret location part is the clincher.
I know! But the club would deny it to be fair, even if it's true. I know it's the Mirror but they had a lot details in there. Call it false hope.
I'm choosing to believe this, at any rate. The secret location part is the clincher.
I hope the secret location isn't the reporter's imagination.
I want to believe all of that because if everyone involved in decision making was employing their common sense this is what would be happening or something similar.
But its the mirror, my 6 year old probably has more of an idea whats happening behind the scenes at United.
Right there with you mate.
Just noticed this in an article from a few days back talking about the Spuds job - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...is-van-Gaal-free-to-hold-Tottenham-talks.html
I'd been working on the assumption that if Moyes was sacked, it wouldn't be until after our match on the 11th. If this story should happen to have a shred of truth in it (and to be fair, I think Miguel Delaney said something similar not too long ago for whatever that's worth), we might see something happen before that. Something to watch anyway. It's certainly notable that Spurs are yet to confirm him despite being linked forever.
It's all a waiting game really. I think the Everton match will a decider.
If something has to happen before that May 7 deadline, it could be as simple as to confirm that David Moyes will not return for the 2014-15 season and that the decision was xyz officially. From there, it could well be the signal Louis van Gaal needs to commit himself with United. Still, I also believe like others that the Everton game will be the decider (if not done already) and that, whether we like it or not, we will get our asses get ripped open by Everton.
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My last remaining hope is that he'll be sacked at the end of the season. If not, who knows. I would say christmas but we're likely to be challenging for the top 4 after splashing the cash this summer and the board will think good enough. What a joke appointment though.