Judas
Open to offers
Seems dumb to talk down his Dortmund time when this place was gagging for us to get him I was gutted when Liverpool hired him, and it went better for them than I even feared it might.
I had to check I wasn't in a Fergie thread when I read this, as the 09 & 11 Barca side were far superior to that Madrid side.Could've won 3 CL trophies in 5 years had he not come up against the most unbeatable Champions League club of all-time in the other two finals. So unlucky.
I had to check I wasn't in a Fergie thread when I read this, as the 09 & 11 Barca side were far superior to that Madrid side.
That is actually quite a flattering list when you dive deeper into it. PL comes with a large asterisk. Covid riddled season, no crowds, huge restrictions in training etc. How convenient Liverpool’s only title in 40 years came in a season where the entire world was shut down.
English domestic cups came all against Chelsea on pens or after extra time, they got properly battered in all those finals. Several dodgy VAR calls going in their favor in at least two of the finals.
Their potential opponents in the CL final were Spurs or Ajax. That’s the caliber of opponents you’re fortunate if you face in the EL QFs, never mind in a CL final. Even then they needed a cheap nothing pen in the opening minute to win.
His Dortmund team was good and they deserved the titles. But Bayern were very inconsistent in that period. In the years prior Wolfsburg, Stuttgart and Bremen had all won the league. Bayern’s dominance since makes it seem like he stopped a dynasty at the time but that wasn’t the case at all. He was simply in the right place at the right time.
I had to check I wasn't in a Fergie thread when I read this, as the 09 & 11 Barca side were far superior to that Madrid side.
It was a reply to Samid's poor WUM attempt, so not to be taken too seriously.I had to check I wasn't in a Fergie thread when I read this, as the 09 & 11 Barca side were far superior to that Madrid side.
Yeah, you clearly don't.It was a reply to Samid's poor WUM attempt, so not to be taken too seriously.
Your losses against that Barca team get mentioned a lot on here though, sooooo extremely unlucky to have to face that team twice. Meanwhile when it concerns Liverpool it's only our win that only half counts because "it was Spurs, lads". No mention about the opposition in our losses. And for Utd, no mention that you needed a last-second comeback and John Terry slip on penalties to win yours. And not that I care, a win is a win and a loss is a loss and that's the end of it, but you can spin every trophy pretty much however you want to based on the narrative you are going by.
For the right amount of money, of course he would.I do wonder if his supposed principal of not managing in a country where he doesn't speak the language is true
Would he really turn down by money from Real? I mean it's not the 1920s, many young european people are now somewhat competent in English.
He doesn't seem like a Real Madrid manager at all.I do wonder if his supposed principal of not managing in a country where he doesn't speak the language is true
Would he really turn down by money from Real? I mean it's not the 1920s, many young european people are now somewhat competent in English.
So he sold out..Red Bull stands for everything that is wrong with football today. I had higher thoughts of him. It´s all about the money, it´s disgusting.
How much time have you got?I'm not really clued on them as a football enterprise. The only thing I know is that they run a multi-club system, which lots of owners do these days. What is about the Red Bull group that is so bad that Klopp is getting pelters for simply working there?
I have never commented or even gave as much as my opinion on United's trophies or finals because I, really, don't care.Yeah, you clearly don't.
It´s all about PR for Red Bull. Read up on when they took over Salzsburg..I'm not really clued on them as a football enterprise. The only thing I know is that they run a multi-club system, which lots of owners do these days. What is about the Red Bull group that is so bad that Klopp is getting pelters for simply working there?
Exactly..How much time have you got?
Being founded by a right-winger, erosion of traditional values, commercialisation, corporate control, profit-drive, clubs turned into brands, consumers instead of fans, contradiction to the 50+1 rule in Germany...
I'm going to give you a very German perspective, so focusing on Leipzig mostly:I'm not really clued on them as a football enterprise. The only thing I know is that they run a multi-club system, which lots of owners do these days. What is about the Red Bull group that is so bad that Klopp is getting pelters for simply working there?
The funny thing is that Leipzig was something like their 4th option in Germany after being rejected by St. Pauli, Düsseldorf, 1860 and god knows who else. The very idea that anyone at RB thought that Pauli would even consider accepting the offer shows how daft they are.It´s all about PR for Red Bull. Read up on when they took over Salzsburg..
The German posters have eloquently responded to you on this, but they're basically a sports washing enterprise for something a lot less sinister than Newcastle or City, but still pretty shit, as Red Bull is a horrible product.I'm not really clued on them as a football enterprise. The only thing I know is that they run a multi-club system, which lots of owners do these days. What is about the Red Bull group that is so bad that Klopp is getting pelters for simply working there?
You mention a very important point here. Selling clubs has long been the norm in England, which is why a construct like RB is regarded far less critically there than in Germany, where clubs still belong to the fans/members and not to some billionaire, hedge fund or state.The German posters have eloquently responded to you on this, but they're basically a sports washing enterprise for something a lot less sinister than Newcastle or City, but still pretty shit, as Red Bull is a horrible product.
That's not too bad for a manager that has never managed the best side in (any given) country. Brian Clough is rightly remembered as one of the greatest managers of all time and he hasn't won that much either — 2 league titles and 2 European Cups (and a bunch of way less important silverware).For as much as he is revered and touted by some as one of the great all time coaches, his career trophy haul reads:
1 Champions League
1 Premier League
2 Bundesligas
1 FA Cup
1 German Cup
2 League Cups
8 major trophies, a quarter of which are league cups.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s a great coach, and I have a lot of respect for the job he did at Liverpool. But his reputation vastly outstrips his accomplishments.
No way Klopp get's rated ahead of someone like Hitzfeld (who won BL and CL both with Dortmund and Bayern and overall a lot more than him).Don't get me wrong, he'll never be the best (not just overall, but he's not the best ever in PL, Liverpool... I guess you can try to make a case for the best ever BL & German manager but I'm not sure) yet that's still a significant amount given the circumstances.
Yeah, as I've meant to say (by using this "you can try to make a case" phrase), that's highly unlikely. Hitzfeld, Lattek, Heynckes, Schön (if we're talking German managers, not just Bundesliga)...No way Klopp get's rated ahead of someone like Hitzfeld (who won BL and CL both with Dortmund and Bayern and overall a lot more than him).
There's probably even a case for Beckenbauer.Yeah, as I've meant to say (by using this "you can try to make a case" phrase), that's highly unlikely. Hitzfeld, Lattek, Heynckes, Schön (if we're talking German managers, not just Bundesliga)...
He wouldn't get in the top 10 all time
You'd struggle to get him in the top 5, if only for the absolutely amazing managers that had a bigger impact on the game, bigger consistency, bigger trophy haul, etc. He was however a great manager, very passionate about football, and I'm genuinely surprised he's taking this job after his mini break.
This is a wild take about a guy who is probably, at best, Liverpool's fourth best manager in their history.I think he's a top 10 football manager of all time. You could probably make an argument for top 5 too.
You'd struggle to get him in the top 5, if only for the absolutely amazing managers that had a bigger impact on the game, bigger consistency, bigger trophy haul, etc. He was however a great manager, very passionate about football, and I'm genuinely surprised he's taking this job after his mini break.
He wouldn't get in the top 10 all time
This is a wild take about a guy who is probably, at best, Liverpool's fourth best manager in their history.
Fair fecks mate. I still think top 5 this century is a reach, but it doesn't really matter ultimately.Recency bias got the better of me for a second there.
I think he's in the top 5 from this century (6th at worst). But "all-time" is a big reach.
That's not too bad for a manager that has never managed the best side in (any given) country. Brian Clough is rightly remembered as one of the greatest managers of all time and he hasn't won that much either — 2 league titles and 2 European Cups (and a bunch of way less important silverware).
Don't get me wrong, he'll never be the best (not just overall, but he's not the best ever in PL, Liverpool... I guess you can try to make a case for the best ever BL & German manager but I'm not sure) yet that's still a significant amount given the circumstances.
English football. SAF's work at Aberdeen (first national title and European cup win) is at least on par with those achievements.The Clough comparison is wrong. Klopp managed Dortmund and Liverpool two of the biggest teams in Europe. Clough took Nottinghamshire Forest and Derby to the league titles . Both clubs had never won a title in their respective history before got there. Doubt we will ever see that again. It’s probably the two single greatest achievements by a manager in British football.
English football. SAF's work at Aberdeen (first national title and European cup win) is at least on par with those achievements.
I didn't say that he had matched Clough exactly, the latter is still the GOAT manager for the underdog team (not overall) in my opinion. He achieved more or less the same by starting at a lower ground. I was using Clough as an example that an all-time great manager doesn't always need to win 30+ major titles.The Clough comparison is wrong. Klopp managed Dortmund and Liverpool two of the biggest teams in Europe. Clough took Nottinghamshire Forest and Derby to the league titles . Both clubs had never won a title in their respective history before he got there. Doubt we will ever see that again.
At the end of the day, you can only beat who’s in front of youIt was a reply to Samid's poor WUM attempt, so not to be taken too seriously.
Your losses against that Barca team get mentioned a lot on here though, sooooo extremely unlucky to have to face that team twice. Meanwhile when it concerns Liverpool it's only our win that only half counts because "it was Spurs, lads". No mention about the opposition in our losses. And for Utd, no mention that you needed a last-second comeback and John Terry slip on penalties to win yours. And not that I care, a win is a win and a loss is a loss and that's the end of it, but you can spin every trophy pretty much however you want to based on the narrative you are going by.
Wasn't it the season after that Liverpool won the league that was the Covid season as there was no fans all season.? They were 25 points clear, the most dominant champions of all time the year they won it.That is actually quite a flattering list when you dive deeper into it. PL comes with a large asterisk. Covid riddled season, no crowds, huge restrictions in training etc. How convenient Liverpool’s only title in 40 years came in a season where the entire world was shut down.
English domestic cups came all against Chelsea on pens or after extra time, they got properly battered in all those finals. Several dodgy VAR calls going in their favor in at least two of the finals.
Their potential opponents in the CL final were Spurs or Ajax. That’s the caliber of opponents you’re fortunate if you face in the EL QFs, never mind in a CL final. Even then they needed a cheap nothing pen in the opening minute to win.
His Dortmund team was good and they deserved the titles. But Bayern were very inconsistent in that period. In the years prior Wolfsburg, Stuttgart and Bremen had all won the league. Bayern’s dominance since makes it seem like he stopped a dynasty at the time but that wasn’t the case at all. He was simply in the right place at the right time.