What next for Jürgen Klopp?

Seems dumb to talk down his Dortmund time when this place was gagging for us to get him :lol: I was gutted when Liverpool hired him, and it went better for them than I even feared it might.
 
30 mil would have been enough to tempt him...
He's very corrupt.
 
Could've won 3 CL trophies in 5 years had he not come up against the most unbeatable Champions League club of all-time in the other two finals. So unlucky.
I had to check I wasn't in a Fergie thread when I read this, as the 09 & 11 Barca side were far superior to that Madrid side.
 
I do wonder if his supposed principal of not managing in a country where he doesn't speak the language is true

Would he really turn down by money from Real? I mean it's not the 1920s, many young european people are now somewhat competent in English.
 
I had to check I wasn't in a Fergie thread when I read this, as the 09 & 11 Barca side were far superior to that Madrid side.

Did not have that Madrid juju though.

About this contact with Red Bull, it's strange because Fabrizio said there is a clause for him to be allowed to take over the Germany role if Naglesmann either leaves or is fired after the World Cup, which is a couple of years. How much does Klopp think he can accomplish with RB in that time? And also it seems his eye is clearly on the Germany post rather than actually trying to develop RBs teams.
 
That is actually quite a flattering list when you dive deeper into it. PL comes with a large asterisk. Covid riddled season, no crowds, huge restrictions in training etc. How convenient Liverpool’s only title in 40 years came in a season where the entire world was shut down.

English domestic cups came all against Chelsea on pens or after extra time, they got properly battered in all those finals. Several dodgy VAR calls going in their favor in at least two of the finals.

Their potential opponents in the CL final were Spurs or Ajax. That’s the caliber of opponents you’re fortunate if you face in the EL QFs, never mind in a CL final. Even then they needed a cheap nothing pen in the opening minute to win.

His Dortmund team was good and they deserved the titles. But Bayern were very inconsistent in that period. In the years prior Wolfsburg, Stuttgart and Bremen had all won the league. Bayern’s dominance since makes it seem like he stopped a dynasty at the time but that wasn’t the case at all. He was simply in the right place at the right time.

It is really fascinating what kind of nonsense a human can convince himself of :lol:
 
I had to check I wasn't in a Fergie thread when I read this, as the 09 & 11 Barca side were far superior to that Madrid side.
It was a reply to Samid's poor WUM attempt, so not to be taken too seriously.

Your losses against that Barca team get mentioned a lot on here though, sooooo extremely unlucky to have to face that team twice. Meanwhile when it concerns Liverpool it's only our win that only half counts because "it was Spurs, lads". No mention about the opposition in our losses. And for Utd, no mention that you needed a last-second comeback and John Terry slip on penalties to win yours. And not that I care, a win is a win and a loss is a loss and that's the end of it, but you can spin every trophy pretty much however you want to based on the narrative you are going by.
 
It was a reply to Samid's poor WUM attempt, so not to be taken too seriously.

Your losses against that Barca team get mentioned a lot on here though, sooooo extremely unlucky to have to face that team twice. Meanwhile when it concerns Liverpool it's only our win that only half counts because "it was Spurs, lads". No mention about the opposition in our losses. And for Utd, no mention that you needed a last-second comeback and John Terry slip on penalties to win yours. And not that I care, a win is a win and a loss is a loss and that's the end of it, but you can spin every trophy pretty much however you want to based on the narrative you are going by.
Yeah, you clearly don't.
I do wonder if his supposed principal of not managing in a country where he doesn't speak the language is true

Would he really turn down by money from Real? I mean it's not the 1920s, many young european people are now somewhat competent in English.
For the right amount of money, of course he would.
 
I do wonder if his supposed principal of not managing in a country where he doesn't speak the language is true

Would he really turn down by money from Real? I mean it's not the 1920s, many young european people are now somewhat competent in English.
He doesn't seem like a Real Madrid manager at all.
 
So he sold out..Red Bull stands for everything that is wrong with football today. I had higher thoughts of him. It´s all about the money, it´s disgusting.
 
So he sold out..Red Bull stands for everything that is wrong with football today. I had higher thoughts of him. It´s all about the money, it´s disgusting.

I'm not really clued on them as a football enterprise. The only thing I know is that they run a multi-club system, which lots of owners do these days. What is about the Red Bull group that is so bad that Klopp is getting pelters for simply working there?
 
I'm not really clued on them as a football enterprise. The only thing I know is that they run a multi-club system, which lots of owners do these days. What is about the Red Bull group that is so bad that Klopp is getting pelters for simply working there?
How much time have you got?

Being founded by a right-winger, erosion of traditional values, commercialisation, corporate control, profit-drive, clubs turned into brands, consumers instead of fans, contradiction to the 50+1 rule in Germany...
 
Yeah, you clearly don't.
I have never commented or even gave as much as my opinion on United's trophies or finals because I, really, don't care.

It's just amazing how some posters are doing everything they can to downplay some of Klopp's achievements just because it's related to Liverpool. Like, arguments that you wouldn't read anywhere else on the internet unless you have a clear bias against or dislike for Liverpool. Again, to be expected on a Utd forum, but it's true.
 
I'm not really clued on them as a football enterprise. The only thing I know is that they run a multi-club system, which lots of owners do these days. What is about the Red Bull group that is so bad that Klopp is getting pelters for simply working there?
It´s all about PR for Red Bull. Read up on when they took over Salzsburg..
 
How much time have you got?

Being founded by a right-winger, erosion of traditional values, commercialisation, corporate control, profit-drive, clubs turned into brands, consumers instead of fans, contradiction to the 50+1 rule in Germany...
Exactly..
 
I'm not really clued on them as a football enterprise. The only thing I know is that they run a multi-club system, which lots of owners do these days. What is about the Red Bull group that is so bad that Klopp is getting pelters for simply working there?
I'm going to give you a very German perspective, so focusing on Leipzig mostly:

RB created an artificial construct that took the place of established traditional clubs and only exists as a marketing vehicle for Red Bull. That's why a lot of fans dislike them. To look at their history, Rasenballsport Leipzig (a word that doesn't really exist but was created to allow them to shortcut as "RB Leipzig", as company names are not allowed as part of club names) actually took over the license from "SSV Markrahnstädt" - a completely irrelevant suburb club. There are well established clubs (Chemie Leipzig, Lokomotive Leipzig) which had a lot of trouble in recent years, bankruptcy etc. Still they are the traditional big teams and I think many people would have had no big problem if Red Bull had taken such a traditional club and helped them out of their misery.

Another reason for criticism is how they are exploiting kind of a loophole in the quite strict "50+1" rule in Germany, which states that the actual club (so, members of the clubs) have to own the majority of voting shares for the football operation. A typical BL club has tens of thousands of members, some much more (Bayern about 360,000 members as the actually biggest club in the world now, but Dortmund, Schalke, Frankfurt, Köln, Stuttgart, Hamburg and even Mönchengladbach have at least 100,000 members each). Some of these clubs sold a minority of their football operation to investors, but the rule is that it has to be a minority. So how did Red Bull get 100% control of RB Leipzig? By founding a club that essentially only excepts Red Bull management as full members. It's a brilliant move to effectively circumvent 50+1 while adhering to the letter to this rule, but it reinforces a lot the sentiment that RB Leipzig is not a real club.

Before you ask: Yes there are exceptions to the 50+1 rule. Currently only Wolfsburg and Leverkusen. Both exceptions were granted on the base of the long-standing association of the clubs to the companies Volkswagen and Bayer. Effectively the clubs were founded by the workers and such company sports groups have long existed and always had their place in German society. So they weren't founded for marketing in the same way as RB Leipzig was. Until recently Hoffenheim was another exception where Dietmar Hopp owned the team, but in this case in the end it was a billionaire who funded his own youth club from his little village until they reached the Bundesliga. If you want you can see kind of a romantic story here, despite him clearly being an a*****. By now he returned the shares to the club, but that was actually the only club in Germany that had a similar ownership model like it is usual in the PL. All three of these clubs are disliked and here it comes mostly down to the fact that they all were promoted far beyond their "natural potential" if we look at how many fans they have etc, so are taking the place of clubs that have more fans and do more for football culture.
 
It´s all about PR for Red Bull. Read up on when they took over Salzsburg..
The funny thing is that Leipzig was something like their 4th option in Germany after being rejected by St. Pauli, Düsseldorf, 1860 and god knows who else. The very idea that anyone at RB thought that Pauli would even consider accepting the offer shows how daft they are.
 
I'm not really clued on them as a football enterprise. The only thing I know is that they run a multi-club system, which lots of owners do these days. What is about the Red Bull group that is so bad that Klopp is getting pelters for simply working there?
The German posters have eloquently responded to you on this, but they're basically a sports washing enterprise for something a lot less sinister than Newcastle or City, but still pretty shit, as Red Bull is a horrible product.
 
"Erosion of standard" - FC Bayern's maid/FC Bayern's feeder/Staunch supporter of one horse race/Stepping stone for players

I don't like both Klopp and Dortmund. So I'm just enjoying everything.
 
The German posters have eloquently responded to you on this, but they're basically a sports washing enterprise for something a lot less sinister than Newcastle or City, but still pretty shit, as Red Bull is a horrible product.
You mention a very important point here. Selling clubs has long been the norm in England, which is why a construct like RB is regarded far less critically there than in Germany, where clubs still belong to the fans/members and not to some billionaire, hedge fund or state.
 
For as much as he is revered and touted by some as one of the great all time coaches, his career trophy haul reads:

1 Champions League
1 Premier League
2 Bundesligas
1 FA Cup
1 German Cup
2 League Cups

8 major trophies, a quarter of which are league cups.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s a great coach, and I have a lot of respect for the job he did at Liverpool. But his reputation vastly outstrips his accomplishments.
That's not too bad for a manager that has never managed the best side in (any given) country. Brian Clough is rightly remembered as one of the greatest managers of all time and he hasn't won that much either — 2 league titles and 2 European Cups (and a bunch of way less important silverware).

Don't get me wrong, he'll never be the best (not just overall, but he's not the best ever in PL, Liverpool... I guess you can try to make a case for the best ever BL & German manager but I'm not sure) yet that's still a significant amount given the circumstances.
 
Don't get me wrong, he'll never be the best (not just overall, but he's not the best ever in PL, Liverpool... I guess you can try to make a case for the best ever BL & German manager but I'm not sure) yet that's still a significant amount given the circumstances.
No way Klopp get's rated ahead of someone like Hitzfeld (who won BL and CL both with Dortmund and Bayern and overall a lot more than him).
 
No way Klopp get's rated ahead of someone like Hitzfeld (who won BL and CL both with Dortmund and Bayern and overall a lot more than him).
Yeah, as I've meant to say (by using this "you can try to make a case" phrase), that's highly unlikely. Hitzfeld, Lattek, Heynckes, Schön (if we're talking German managers, not just Bundesliga)...
 
Yeah, as I've meant to say (by using this "you can try to make a case" phrase), that's highly unlikely. Hitzfeld, Lattek, Heynckes, Schön (if we're talking German managers, not just Bundesliga)...
There's probably even a case for Beckenbauer.
 
:lol:

You'd struggle to get him in the top 5, if only for the absolutely amazing managers that had a bigger impact on the game, bigger consistency, bigger trophy haul, etc. He was however a great manager, very passionate about football, and I'm genuinely surprised he's taking this job after his mini break.
He wouldn't get in the top 10 all time
 
Its even worse what RB did in Salzburg. Took over a well known club, formerly Casino Salzburg, erased their colors, tradition, changed the name.
 
I think he's a top 10 football manager of all time. You could probably make an argument for top 5 too.
This is a wild take about a guy who is probably, at best, Liverpool's fourth best manager in their history.
 
:lol:

You'd struggle to get him in the top 5, if only for the absolutely amazing managers that had a bigger impact on the game, bigger consistency, bigger trophy haul, etc. He was however a great manager, very passionate about football, and I'm genuinely surprised he's taking this job after his mini break.

He wouldn't get in the top 10 all time

This is a wild take about a guy who is probably, at best, Liverpool's fourth best manager in their history.

Recency bias got the better of me for a second there.

I think he's in the top 5 from this century (6th at worst). But "all-time" is a big reach.
 
That's not too bad for a manager that has never managed the best side in (any given) country. Brian Clough is rightly remembered as one of the greatest managers of all time and he hasn't won that much either — 2 league titles and 2 European Cups (and a bunch of way less important silverware).

Don't get me wrong, he'll never be the best (not just overall, but he's not the best ever in PL, Liverpool... I guess you can try to make a case for the best ever BL & German manager but I'm not sure) yet that's still a significant amount given the circumstances.

The Clough comparison is wrong. Klopp managed Dortmund and Liverpool two of the biggest teams in Europe. Clough took Nottinghamshire Forest and Derby to the league titles . Both clubs had never won a title in their respective history before he got there. Doubt we will ever see that again.
 
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The Clough comparison is wrong. Klopp managed Dortmund and Liverpool two of the biggest teams in Europe. Clough took Nottinghamshire Forest and Derby to the league titles . Both clubs had never won a title in their respective history before got there. Doubt we will ever see that again. It’s probably the two single greatest achievements by a manager in British football.
English football. SAF's work at Aberdeen (first national title and European cup win) is at least on par with those achievements.
 
English football. SAF's work at Aberdeen (first national title and European cup win) is at least on par with those achievements.

Actually you’re correct. Fergie winning with Aberdeen is better. Absolutely mental when you think about it. Doesn’t get talked about enough. The last British team to beat Real Madrid in a final also.
 
The Clough comparison is wrong. Klopp managed Dortmund and Liverpool two of the biggest teams in Europe. Clough took Nottinghamshire Forest and Derby to the league titles . Both clubs had never won a title in their respective history before he got there. Doubt we will ever see that again.
I didn't say that he had matched Clough exactly, the latter is still the GOAT manager for the underdog team (not overall) in my opinion. He achieved more or less the same by starting at a lower ground. I was using Clough as an example that an all-time great manager doesn't always need to win 30+ major titles.

But to say that Dortmund and Liverpool were two of the biggest teams in Europe at the time that Klopp came to them would be equally disingenuous. Just look at the last time that they've won a league title. And the level of top teams during Klopp's era has been much stronger than during Clough's.
 
It was a reply to Samid's poor WUM attempt, so not to be taken too seriously.

Your losses against that Barca team get mentioned a lot on here though, sooooo extremely unlucky to have to face that team twice. Meanwhile when it concerns Liverpool it's only our win that only half counts because "it was Spurs, lads". No mention about the opposition in our losses. And for Utd, no mention that you needed a last-second comeback and John Terry slip on penalties to win yours. And not that I care, a win is a win and a loss is a loss and that's the end of it, but you can spin every trophy pretty much however you want to based on the narrative you are going by.
At the end of the day, you can only beat who’s in front of you
 
That is actually quite a flattering list when you dive deeper into it. PL comes with a large asterisk. Covid riddled season, no crowds, huge restrictions in training etc. How convenient Liverpool’s only title in 40 years came in a season where the entire world was shut down.

English domestic cups came all against Chelsea on pens or after extra time, they got properly battered in all those finals. Several dodgy VAR calls going in their favor in at least two of the finals.

Their potential opponents in the CL final were Spurs or Ajax. That’s the caliber of opponents you’re fortunate if you face in the EL QFs, never mind in a CL final. Even then they needed a cheap nothing pen in the opening minute to win.

His Dortmund team was good and they deserved the titles. But Bayern were very inconsistent in that period. In the years prior Wolfsburg, Stuttgart and Bremen had all won the league. Bayern’s dominance since makes it seem like he stopped a dynasty at the time but that wasn’t the case at all. He was simply in the right place at the right time.
Wasn't it the season after that Liverpool won the league that was the Covid season as there was no fans all season.? They were 25 points clear, the most dominant champions of all time the year they won it.
 
As others have already mentioned, Klopp selling out really should not come as a surprise. He probably shoved his face into more advertisements shilling for stuff than every player he ever trained combined. Still disappointing that he sold out to Redbull of all things.