What is Luis Suarez worth?

Nogbadthebad said:
That would be a turnabout of lazarus proportions.

Occams razer would suggest his team think they have a loophole, like last time.
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It'll be Top 4 based.

As long as he's getting Champions League footy he'll be happy to stay on those terms. If they drop out of the Top 4, he'll be allowed to leave for X amount.
 
World class players perform to a consistently high level for more consistent periods of time. Every single player, whatever they are classed as, will suffer peaks and troughs throughout a career, it's those who's peaks remain at higher levels that we can start to put in the bracket of World class. Suarez has yet to prove his worth in my eyes simply due to his own inconsistencies, how on earth are you to prove you can maintain if your banned half a season here and there. This season is his time to prove he can manage a full consistent season, go grab that golden boot his own idiocy denied him last year, then let's talk about his class. Shown it absolutely in the bursts he's played and no doubt has the ability to be in the top bracket but only true professional with a hard working dedicated attitude generally fall into that category, questionable character may be his ultimate hindrance.
 
Dumbstar said:
Giving something back to the club after how we've supported him?
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Who's Tony Barrett? I really strongly doubt that such a clause would be in a contract, if only because it would be based on an exterior factor (the Bale fee) that wasn't officially reported and that no one is meant to know precisely anyway.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Who's Tony Barrett? I really strongly doubt that such a clause would be in a contract, if only because it would be based on an exterior factor (the Bale fee) that wasn't officially reported and that no one is meant to know precisely anyway.
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I think all he's saying is that Suarez has a release clause, that is only applicable to non-English teams, that is higher than the amount Bale is meant to have gone for.

He's just saying it in a stupid way.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I think all he's saying is that Suarez has a release clause, that is only applicable to non-English teams, that is higher than the amount Bale is meant to have gone for.

He's just saying it in a stupid way.
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Well he should just write "a £90M release clause" if that's what he means. The way it's reported in antihenry's post gives the impression of a clause that would be legally null and void.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Who's Tony Barrett? I really strongly doubt that such a clause would be in a contract, if only because it would be based on an exterior factor (the Bale fee) that wasn't officially reported and that no one is meant to know precisely anyway.
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One of the most connected journos to the club.
 
For a top player he is, his first touch is inconsistent, and his decision making can be really stupid at times.
 
Best player in the league but has a long way to go before being compared with Ronaldo.
 
So using this "at this moment" metric that Liverpool fans have come up with, does this mean "at this moment" Suarez is no better than Welbeck.
 
Amar__ said:
For a top player he is, his first touch is inconsistent, and his decision making can be really stupid at times.
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His touch is very Rooney-esque IMO. Brilliant at times, then at others wayward. He's a class player though, just like Rooney. Obviously it was always going to close to impossible for him to keep up his form though. Only Ronaldo and messi can keep that up. It's laughable to suggest he was at that level like Liverpool fans were starting to. Same with aguero.
 
BarneyLFC said:
He was the best player on the pitch vs City. Didn't score, but should've had 2 assists.
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TBF Chelsea did an excellent job in stopping him today. The wide men pressed high and made sure he didn't have support from the midfielders and wingers to start counters. Completely isolated for most of the game. He's been most effective when he picks up the ball between the lines and has Sterling/Countinho/Henderson running beyond and slips them through with his passing. Chelsea stopped that very well.
 
Poor game by him, in the first he didn't stand a chance, his supply was totally stopped. In the 2nd he himself failed the team cause pool actually had decent control of the game. The level he's at will become clearer once he plays with teammates who don't have games where they make 5 yard passes chores.
 
Had a poor game against Chelsea. Been leading the Liverpool attack on his shoulders up to now so he's allowed one.

Against City even Utd fans were saying he was incredible. Not his fault Sterling can't finish for shit or that ball he muscled his way to and laid on a plate was outstanding. Plus other moments which I'm sure you all remember.
 
Dumbstar said:
Had a poor game against Chelsea. Been leading the Liverpool attack on his shoulders up to now so he's allowed one.

Against City even Utd fans were saying he was incredible. Not his fault Sterling can't finish for shit or that ball he muscled his way to and laid on a plate was outstanding. Plus other moments which I'm sure you all remember.
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There's no way he was incredible against city. He was great creatively in some moments but he didn't offer the goal threat you needed from him.

Mourinho set up Chelsea superbly against Liverpool and completely nullified Liverpools main weapon.
 
I've updated this, with the latest games, plus the Everton games, as I would consider that a big fixture for Liverpool.

2010/2011

Liverpool 3-1 Manchester United: 0 goals; 2 assists. MOTM display.
Liverpool 3-0 Manchester City: 0 goals; 0 assists. Good performance (unfortunate not to score).
Liverpool 1-1 Arsenal: 0 goals; 0 assists. Poor performance in what was an awful game.

That's 0 goals, 2 assists, in 3 games.

2011/2012

Arsenal 0-2 Liverpool: 1 goal; 0 assists. Came on as a sub. Ensured Liverpool picked up 3 points.
Everton 0-2 Liverpool: 1 goal; 0 assists.
Liverpool 1-1 Manchester United: 0 goals; 0 assists. Average performance. Everyone knows this.
Chelsea 1-2 Liverpool: 0 goals; 0 assists. Nutmegged David Luiz and was close to scoring, but his passing was terrible. I can't remember much about this game, apart from that.
Liverpool 1-1 Manchester City: 0 goals; 0 assists. Linked up well and had a decent game overall.
Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: 1 goal; 0 assists. Average game. Evra controversy didn't help.
Liverpool 2-1 Everton: 0 goals; 2 assists.
Liverpool 1-2 Arsenal: 0 goals; 0 assists. Decent game, but his finishing was poor (missed two very good chances).
Liverpool 4-1 Chelsea: 0 goals; 1 assist. Don't know if this game should count. Anyway he had a good game. Contributed to the opening goal (own goal I think it was) and created a couple of chances. Linked up well with Carroll, too.

That's 3 goals, 3 assist, in 9 games.

2012/2013

Liverpool 2-2 Manchester City: 1 goal; 0 assists. Didn't watch this game, but I liked his free kick goal...
Liverpool 0-2 Arsenal: 0 goals; 0 assists. Non-existent. Mertesacker and Vermaelen did a great job on him.
Liverpool 1-2 Manchester United: 0 goals; 0 assists. Average game. Ferdinand had him in his pocket. (Unfortunate not to win a penalty.)
Everton 2-2 Liverpool: 1 goal; 1 assist.
Chelsea 1-1 Liverpool: 1 goal; 0 assists. Missed this game.
Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: 0 goals; 0 assists. Nothing special. We did an excellent job on him.
Arsenal 2-2 Liverpool: 1 goal; 0 assists. Missed this game.
Manchester City 2-2 Liverpool: 0 goals; 0 assists. Missed this game.
Liverpool 2-2 Chelsea: 1 goal; 0 assists. Excellent game. Should have scored more.

That's 5 goals; 1 assists, in 9 games.

2013/2014

Arsenal 2-0 Liverpool: 0 goals;0 assists. Poor game, but didn't look sharp enough. Should have scored.
Everton 3-3 Liverpool: 1 goal; 1 assist.
Manchester City 2-1 Liverpool: 0 goals; 0 assists. Very good game, set up three chances (more or less created the goal).
Chelsea 2-1 Liverpool: 0 goals; 0 assists.

So far, this season: 1 goal, 1 assist, in 4 games.

Overall tally: 9 goals and 7 assists, in 25 games.
 
He'll score a couple more great goals in the next game against a mid-table side and the deluded will laugh and say who cares can't do it against the big clubs, forgetting Ronaldo was pretty much the same for us.
 
Twigginater said:
Decent record that. Would anyone at our club have higher?
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Rooney has a record of
Twigginater said:
Decent record that. Would anyone at our club have higher?
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Rooney has 38 goals in 98 matches against Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Everton...or 0.39 goals per game against the top sides.

RVP has 8 goals in 12 matches against the same sides.
 
shaggy said:
He'll score a couple more great goals in the next game against a mid-table side and the deluded will laugh and say who cares can't do it against the big clubs, forgetting Ronaldo was pretty much the same for us.
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The difference is Ronaldo scored against the likes of Milan, Roma, Chelsea, Arsenal and Porto in each of the knockout rounds of the CL. And in 07/08 when he was recognised as the best player in the world, he scored against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Roma, Lyon and Tottenham. He scored 8 goals in 10 starts against the top 6. The only big team he didn't score against then was Barcelona, and in fairness he was a part of a far more negative, defensive team than Suárez has been a part of at any point this season. So it's not really the same. After 06/07 he was recognised by most United fans as the best player in the world, but his inability to score against the top teams - of the top 6 he scored against just Spurs and Everton - left opposition fans asking the question about whether he was a flat track bully. Most United fans brushed that off as a non-issue and it being an inevitability that he'd struggle to carry that kind of goalscoring form into the big games, but he's since gone on to find a way to score against the vast majority of top teams he plays against. In other words, he stepped up. Suárez hasn't done that yet. Just because you don't feel he needs to do that doesn't mean everyone who does is deluded.
 
I still don't believe he's in Aguero's league. Aguero's top level is higher and he wins the big game player argument too. Aguero is arguably the biggest of "big game" players in the entire league.
 
Exactly, Brwned. MrMarcello has already explained that Ronaldo's record doesn't tell you everything, as he played many games while he was still raw. I think it's best to judge when a player is in his prime (06/07 onwards). Ronaldo also struggled to score against Barcelona for us and Real Madrid, but after he converted that penalty in the second half of 10/11 against them, his goal scoring improved. Even when he has poor games against big clubs, he scores. He's done that more frequently than Suarez. And there's nothing to suggest Suarez can't do the same.

Van Persie's is below.

2011/2012

Manchester United 2-8 Arsenal: 1 goal; 0 assists.
Tottenham 2-1 Arsenal: 0 goals; 0 assists.
Chelsea 3-5 Arsenal: 3 goals; 0 assists.
Manchester City 1-0 Arsenal: 0 goals; 0 assists.
Arsenal 1-2 Manchester United: 1 goals; 0 assists.
Arsenal 5-2 Tottenham: 1 goal; 1 assist.
Liverpool 1-2 Arsenal: 2 goals; 0 assists.
Arsenal 1-0 Manchester City: 0 goals; 0 assists.
Arsenal 0-0 Chelsea: 0 goals; 0 assists.

8 goals, 1 assist, in 9 appearances.


2012/2013

Liverpool 1-2 Manchester United: 1 goal; 0 assists.
Chelsea 2-3 Manchester United: 1 goal; 1 assist.
Manchester United 2-1 Arsenal: 1 goal; 0 assists.
Manchester City 2-3 Manchester United: 1 goal; 0 assists.
Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: 1 goal; 0 assists.
Manchester United 1-2 Manchester United: 0 goals; 0 assists.
Arsenal 1-1 Manchester United: 1 goal; 0 assists.
Manchester United 0-1 Chelsea: 0 goals; 0 assists.

6 goals, 1 assist, in 8 games.


2013/2014

Manchester United 0-0 Chelsea: 0 goals; 0 assists.
Liverpool 1-0 Manchester United: 0 goals; 0 assists.
Manchester United 1-0 Arsenal: 1 goal; 0 assists.

1 goal in 3 games.

Overall tally: 15 goals, 2 assists, 20 games
 
Brwned said:
The difference is Ronaldo scored against the likes of Milan, Roma, Chelsea, Arsenal and Porto in each of the knockout rounds of the CL. And in 07/08 when he was recognised as the best player in the world, he scored against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Roma, Lyon and Tottenham. He scored 8 goals in 10 starts against the top 6. The only big team he didn't score against then was Barcelona, and in fairness he was a part of a far more negative, defensive team than Suárez has been a part of at any point this season. So it's not really the same. After 06/07 he was recognised by most United fans as the best player in the world, but his inability to score against the top teams - of the top 6 he scored against just Spurs and Everton - left opposition fans asking the question about whether he was a flat track bully. Most United fans brushed that off as a non-issue and it being an inevitability that he'd struggle to carry that kind of goalscoring form into the big games, but he's since gone on to find a way to score against the vast majority of top teams he plays against. In other words, he stepped up. Suárez hasn't done that yet. Just because you don't feel he needs to do that doesn't mean everyone who does is deluded.
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Mainly Liam ;)
 
I wonder what Henry and Shearer's tallies were against the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Everton, etc. Of course Shearer covered two separate eras so the top clubs in the 90s won't necessarily remain the same in the 2000s.

Henry: 1999-2007. Top clubs Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, United, Leeds or Newcastle
Shearer: 1990s. Top clubs Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds, Liverpool, United
Shearer: 2000s. Top clubs Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, United
 
Brwned said:
The difference is Ronaldo scored against the likes of Milan, Roma, Chelsea, Arsenal and Porto in each of the knockout rounds of the CL. And in 07/08 when he was recognised as the best player in the world, he scored against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Roma, Lyon and Tottenham. He scored 8 goals in 10 starts against the top 6. The only big team he didn't score against then was Barcelona, and in fairness he was a part of a far more negative, defensive team than Suárez has been a part of at any point this season. So it's not really the same. After 06/07 he was recognised by most United fans as the best player in the world, but his inability to score against the top teams - of the top 6 he scored against just Spurs and Everton - left opposition fans asking the question about whether he was a flat track bully. Most United fans brushed that off as a non-issue and it being an inevitability that he'd struggle to carry that kind of goalscoring form into the big games, but he's since gone on to find a way to score against the vast majority of top teams he plays against. In other words, he stepped up. Suárez hasn't done that yet. Just because you don't feel he needs to do that doesn't mean everyone who does is deluded.
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Worth looking at the quality of the team Suarez plays in compared to Ronaldo's past and current team mates. I don't like defending Suarez, but the lack of quality in Liverpool's team make it much easier for good opponents to shut him down whereas when teams played against Ronaldo (both when he was with us and now at Madrid) there's a lot of team mates capable of creating something.
 
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