I don't disagree with any of this. The issue is the way he comes across, in interviews. It leaves him unwisely open to criticism.
A good run and a mouth kept shut and he'll be grand.
What has actually happened to Joe Hart?
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
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A good run and a mouth kept shut and he'll be grand.
I'm going to look into this cockiness stuff - I've never actually seen an interview of his which is why I'm not getting into discussions over whether he is/isn't cocky. I'd agree though that unwarrented cockiness (hell, any cockiness - I personally hate it in sportspeople) makes him pretty unlikeable. My main gripe is how people use whatever dislike they have of his manner as a stick to poke at his footballing abilities.
So you bring back the old victim card about De Gea when really Hart has been getting just the same level of focus for his mistakes.
I'll say again - I've not once tried to say that he's not made mistakes, or that he's not cocky (if you read back I actually said that I wasn't aware - there's a difference. Oh, and that's not ignoring it anyway, don't say things which aren't true). He's a goalkeeper going through a bad patch is all and think the exaggerated dislike and humour people take from it to be a bit cringeworthy.
You were saying you didn't understand why so many United fans were so critical of him and I explained that. I'm not playing the De Gea victim card, I'm pointing out that there was a period when literally everything De Gea did was scrutinised to the nth degree, with many goals that weren't actually his fault being blamed on him, whilst Hart was getting away scot-free with any errors and was being hailed as one of the best keepers in the world. That rankled with a lot of United fans, and that coupled with Hart being extremely arrogant has meant that his current run of frequent errors is particularly pleasing to some because he's making himself look like a right muppet. I'm not sure why you think it's so absurd that United fans are taking pleasure in their biggest rival's first choice keeper being a bit shit at the moment because I assure you that they'd be laughing their arses off if the same was happening to De Gea.
You came into this thread asking why people didn't like Hart and said he's not been as bad as people think. There have been multiple explanations for why people don't like Hart, and without any real elaboration on the "as bad as people think" part people can only assume that you're referring to the general consensus in this thread. A consensus which acknowledges he was the league's best keeper when City won the title, but also points out he was a bit dodgy last season and has been particularly terrible this season, especially considering he's supposed to be the first choice for a title chasing side. Your defence of him is quite frankly very strange, because at the end of the day, who gives a flying feck if United fans are taking pleasure in and over-exaggerating the misfortunes of their biggest rivals goalkeeper?
I can totally see where you're coming from. I find the average United fan's view of the ability Gerrard has had, at varying points in his career, to be quite bizarre.
Said bloke has been a bit of a twat, at times, and happens to play for a club none of us are fond of... I do not pretend to like him but I think it's fair to say these things cloud many person's judgements of his footballing capability.
I'd agree that you shouldn't be using external factors to poke fun at a player's footballing abilities, but arrogance is related to a players footballing abilities, and Hart has often come across as overly arrogant both on and off the pitch, whether it's by flying off his line unnecessarily to be the hero or by slating his team mates in a post-match interview. It's all well and good saying you can't poke fun at his goal keeping just because he's cocky, but as DotA has said, by being the arrogant wanker that he has been, he's left himself open to over-the-top criticism when things aren't going right for him.
You have been playing the victim card though. Both De Gea and Hart have had their performances scrutinised intensely, it's just your victim card making you think De Gea was treated any worse than Hart was.
Lets look at it then. He went from being the best in the league, as acknowledged by United fans, to a bit dodgy last season. Every goalkeeper ever can be described as having a dodgy season or two as I know you would agree - so really his performances last season have no place in a rational debate over how good Hart is. He went through a natural patch where he was a bit off-form. Perfectly natural.
He has however been shite this season - something I've now said 4 times. But I think you're being especially thick-headed - I'm allowed to question people's reasons for hating him and just because he's our 'biggest rivals' (which City aren't btw) goalkeeper doesn't explain the hate. I asked and was told he was cocky (which was news to me and something I'm going to look into myself) and then several comments about how terrible he's been.
I'm allowed to have an opinion on fellow fans behaviour ffs
I disagree. Does that make all 'sweeper-keepers' (to coin the FM phrase) who come off their line cocky and arrogant? Is Lloris cocky? What about Chilavert, who gave himself Paraguay's set piece responsibilities?
He was never the best goalkeeper in the league, and has always been overrated to feck because he's English.
He's a fecking twat too.
He's a fecking twat too.
Why are people blaming Nastasic? I have no idea what else he's meant to do in that situation? Surely he has to keep his focus on the ball and rely on his keeper not being a total mentalist...
The only reason the media started in on Hart was because England qualifying for the WC trumped everything, he had been dodgy long before that but was never called on it, while at the same time there were any number of hatchet jobs on De Gea for any error he made.
If Hart stays then Nastasic has a simple nod back to him, but by suddenly charging late Nastasic is turning directly into his own keeper and has no time to adjust, it was clearly bad judgment by Hart, you could see he was mad with himself and not yelling at his CB.
He's been fecking useless for around the same length of time that he looked good, it's all well and good saying he's having a bad patch but looking how consistently poor he's been then perhaps he just had a good patch and is now showing his true level.
Plus he's a massive twat.
Plus he's a massive twat.
Its the hockey hangover. It is the national sport afterall even though nobody gives a feck nowadays. But alot of the terminology has seeped in
One season wonder.
Oh, and Varun.
Don't be silly, Nastasic 'panicked', had a 'brain freeze', a 'moment of madness'.
The BBC football web site are the same "a defensive mix up caused the young serb defender Nastasic to panic" it used to annoy me as DDG got slaughtered. But now I find it amusing, as Hart just gets worse and worse with every game and DDG is the best GK in the league now.
Its Hart fault full stop.. He has been in terrible form for some time now..
And for that D thing its not a part of the box, only there to keep everyone 9,15m away from the penalty spot...
And for that D thing its not a part of the box, only there to keep everyone 9,15m away from the penalty spot...
The funny bit is that I, along with many others, thought that United would've been sorted for the goalie position if we had gotten Hart, and that he would probably have been better than DDG. My oh my was I wrong (first time, promise). DDG is world class and Hart looks like he should be world class.
That Torres goal yesterday is Hart's mistake, no doubt. The defending is suspect, but he always have to wait for it to bounce, so what Hart was thinking only he knows. Annoying, as 1-1 would've been a better result for United.
That Torres goal yesterday is Hart's mistake, no doubt. The defending is suspect, but he always have to wait for it to bounce, so what Hart was thinking only he knows. Annoying, as 1-1 would've been a better result for United.
There's nothing to suggest that if he had joined us we would have been saddled with an error prone goalie. The fact that he's making mistakes could be down to a number of factors;the coaches,management who knows. It could have been vastly different at Utd but he's not here and we have a good un in DDG
Of course, but there is nothing to suggest he would not make those mistakes either. That's down to pure speculation. What I'm saying is that DDG turned out the superior goalie, for now at least.
Am I the only one who doesn't think he's any worse than he's ever been? He's a decent keeper who the press built up absurdly because of his passport and who are now absolutely savaging (quite a bit worse than DDG at this point) because of his passport.
He looked an international class GK in their championship winning season if not a world class one. It wasn't hard to see why the media got hyped up about him
I agree. Hart's overall game is still the same as it was 2 years ago, imo. He was always a good shotstopper who had an unbelievable run for about 15 months. But even in City's title winning season you could see the flaws in his game (distribution, positioning and timing, often giving away second chances instead of catching the ball or clearing to a corner), he just got away with it a lot or his saves overshadowed his mistakes during games. I still remember how surprised I was when he was praised after the CL game in Munich that season, when he made quite a few basic goalkeeping errors, but a few magnificent saves on the line made him a brave hero. And it doesn't look like he has worked on a single flaw in his game since then while that brilliant run as a shotstopper never could last. With great goalkeepers it's usually the exact opposite, their overall game is so important for the team that it overshadows a few mistakes each season.
Basically he's a better Paul Robinson. Good shot stopper with rather glaring errors that eventually become more and more obvious and more and more taken advantage of..
All he needs now is a mistake in a big England game and the media will never let him go.
It will be very interesting to see how he deals with the focus on his mistakes and just generally the media barrage. It destroyed Robinson. Once the cracks started to show he wasn't strong enough to overcome it. I wonder if Hart is
All he needs now is a mistake in a big England game and the media will never let him go.
It will be very interesting to see how he deals with the focus on his mistakes and just generally the media barrage. It destroyed Robinson. Once the cracks started to show he wasn't strong enough to overcome it. I wonder if Hart is
It's going to be interesting if City replace him, with rumours of Iker needing game time for the World Cup. Will Roy take and start a GK that's been on the bench for half a season?
Despite claims to the contary there are a select few untouchable players for England. Hart, Gerrard and Rooney will not be dropped except for injury. He might drop him for a pre WC friendly to put the shitters up him but he'll start every game in Rio if fit.
Only just seen chelsea's second goal. Hart turned what should have been a simple header back to the keeper into a goal
I mostly agree with this in the sense that those flaws have always been there, but I do think they've become more prominent in the last 12 months for whatever reason. Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't remember him flapping with crosses all that much a couple of years back whereas now it's relatively common. Might have something to do with Lescott and Richards being much more dominant in the air than Zabaleta and Nastasic meaning he was exposed left often? Parrying it out into dangerous areas, poor distribution and the occasional tendency to over commit to make a heroic intervention have all been there from day one, definitely, but they weren't as common I don't think.
the De Gea v Hart debates, those were the days, 
Only just seen chelsea's second goal. Hart turned what should have been a simple header back to the keeper into a goal
Yeah, and there's some idiots saying that the defender should take some of the blame
Yeah, and there's some idiots saying that the defender should take some of the blame
Well he's not entirely blameless as his starting position was wrong plus he wasn't aware what was around him when heading back but it was definitely Hart's doing this I agree.
It's the P&G curse. It happend to all of their spokesmen.
If a top 'keeper becomes available, City will get rid of Hart. He's become a complete liability, costing them points. I assume they'll go for Casillas and Valdes.
Or DDG
Or DDG
You honestly think they've any chance of signing Dave?
None at all.
But he was in control, he had his eye on the ball the whole time. If Hart didn't think he was Rambo, City would have got a point from the game.
All very well us laughing at Hart, and it really was a complete feck up, but it would have benefited us more, overall, if it had stayed at 1-1.
Still, only 2 points behind Shitty, who everyone says are so wonderful & waiting to win the league, despite United being a shadow of our former selves.
Still, only 2 points behind Shitty, who everyone says are so wonderful & waiting to win the league, despite United being a shadow of our former selves.
We were apparently shit for the whole of their title winning season whereas they were head and shoulders the best team around and could have beaten anyone. A lot of the media seemed to ignore the fact that they scraped it on goal difference with the last kick of the season.