What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

It'll be a deal on deadline day for Amrabat. Thats all it'll be. Yoro, Zirkzee and Amrabat.

AWB won't be sold. Nor will McTominay, Eriksen, Maguire, Lindelof or anyone, and therefore we won't have the means to anything else.

The sooner most folks accept this as the inevitable likelihood, the sooner expectations can be lowered on the players, on the manager, on the entire infrastructure.

This is it, at least until next summer. Enjoy the season for whatever surprises it may bring, but don't go in expecting. It will be a difficult top four finish.
 
Is it just me, or are we still shite in the transfer market?

We signed Yoro and Zirkzee quickly, but things have stagnated since then.

According to rumours, we're targeting several midfielders with different profiles, but after pulling out of the Ugarte deal, where are the similar targets? Do we want a ball winner, a passer, or something else?

I believe the De Ligt and Mazraoui deals will be sorted soon, but even that deal seem to be dragging on. I understand we're waiting for the sale of Wan-Bissaka, though.

I actually think that if we manage to sign all of our targets, it will turn out to be a pretty decent window. However, as usual, our approach seems very scattergun.
 
We do need to sign a midfielder in this window either way. I’d much rather Ugarte than Berge for his aggression but either would serve a purpose. We just have to trust in the new transfer team and give them proper time. they know the whole football world is watching them try to pull a rabbit out of a hat but in reality we are fighting for top 4 this season and without major injuries we should make it. Keep building next summer. We aren’t challenging this year so we may as well blood a few new younger players and see how it all holds up. I’m confident of us being an awful lot better this season whatever happens. The players were aimless with all the drama…

Fresh slate with whoever stays. The likes of Rashford and Sancho could really step up. Antony is a better player than we’ve seen. Mount is like a new player. I also think Zirkzee will prove to be a very entertaining player once he gets going. He's not afraid to try the unexpected stuff and he's physically built for the PL. Himself and Rasmus suit each other also. We need a few more signings but we were never going to be able to fix the team and club enough this summer to challenge either way. I’m happy to give it the next few years now and see where it goes.
 
Hoof the ball said:
It'll be a deal on deadline day for Amrabat. Thats all it'll be. Yoro, Zirkzee and Amrabat.

AWB won't be sold. Nor will McTominay, Eriksen, Maguire, Lindelof or anyone, and therefore we won't have the means to anything else.

The sooner most folks accept this as the inevitable likelihood, the sooner expectations can be lowered on the players, on the manager, on the entire infrastructure.

This is it, at least until next summer. Enjoy the season for whatever surprises it may bring, but don't go in expecting. It will be a difficult top four finish.
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If that winds up being the sum of our summer business, you can forget about top four, we'll struggle to finish in the top six...
 
Woziak said:
It’s more than likely that we have two chances for CL, Europa Cup league and England should get the 5th CL merit place this season as it’s hard to believe English teams will be as poor in Europe, especially with Chelsea in the Conference League, and spurs and United in the Europa League. However even top 5 will be a huge challenge as 8 teams are fighting for those 5 spaces and 2 or 3 are basically a done deal already.

We’ve currently lost Varane, Martial and Amrabat but have gained Yoro, Zirkzee, but more importantly Amad, Martinez, Shaw, Mount all now fit and a far more mature version of Kobbie Mainoo.

Conclusion, providing we sign a decent CB like M De Ligt/ J Branthwaite, Upgrade our midfield with one of Ugarte/Rabiot/Foffana and trade in Sancho for a proven goal scorer like Ivan Toney than I see a huge improvement but only after a typical slow ETH start.

Ps even. If we keep Sancho and don’t buy another attacker like Toney, the club should have more than enough to make top 4/5 this season.
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How can you possibly consider Shaw fit and someone to be counted on? Dude is made of glass and I'd be anything doesn't last the season. Yoro out for 3 months, and will need to be bedded in slowly. Mount needs to prove he can stay healthy and actually have a purpose in this team. So yeah without adds it comes down to mainoo shouldering a huge load, Martinez shaking off his injury problems, and amad continuing to progress. All while we hope nobody else misses any time.
 
What we need is a miracle honestly. I think the new management has decided to allow this season to unfold however it does instead of over exerting too early.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s another 6-8th place, which if we’re being honest is a fair reflection of the team. When contracts run out next year we’ll really only be left with casemiro and maguire? This season is about who’s gonna sink or swim, not really about success.
 
lex talionis said:
We’re all entitled to our opinions but Onana was a downgrade from De Gea last season. A keeper needs to be a shot stopper first, ball passer second. The mocking and abuse we all took from rival supporters is something I will never forget.

Can Onana improve? Yes. But if he does not improve this season we need to find a new keeper next season.
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Onana is a capable shot stopper. He does things De Gea doesnt. He also has the most important factor in a GK that De Gea lost completely - self belief.

De Gea was so error prone and stale. People jus recall the glory days - unfortunately he'd become a liability so we rightly moved on. We upgraded
 
Craig Ward said:
Onana is a capable shot stopper. He does things De Gea doesnt. He also has the most important factor in a GK that De Gea lost completely - self belief.

De Gea was so error prone and stale. People jus recall the glory days - unfortunately he'd become a liability so we rightly moved on. We upgraded
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Why do we keep comparing Onana and De Gea? Endless debates comparing levels of shitness. Can we not just realize they both were? De Gea lost the plot and was replaced by Onana who was sht. Saying Onana was more sht or less sht changes nothing. He was still sht
 
FerociousCorgis said:
How can you possibly consider Shaw fit and someone to be counted on? Dude is made of glass and I'd be anything doesn't last the season. Yoro out for 3 months, and will need to be bedded in slowly. Mount needs to prove he can stay healthy and actually have a purpose in this team. So yeah without adds it comes down to mainoo shouldering a huge load, Martinez shaking off his injury problems, and amad continuing to progress. All while we hope nobody else misses any time.
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I don’t consider Shaw a player who can play 50-60 games per season, I never have since he had his double leg break but can he play 35-40 at a high level yes he can, and contrary to popular belief I also think keeping AWB and give him a new contract is better than signing a non Pl proven Mazraoui for basically the same money but without AWB elite pace and defending.

Diego Dalot can clearly play left back added to Amass I’m sure we can use those 4 by rotation, yes it’s not what we want however Qatar did tell us under SJR , United’s £120m transfer budget or £250-300m under them, this is because the club is £1 billion in debt and why should Sir Jim invest £400-500m into the club when he still only owns 27.7%.

Even now the Glazers still hold the club back, they nearly caused the club a PSR breach by charging Raine’s Commission payment of £31m to the club and this increased the net loss this financial year to over £70m.

Here’s the Reality Check, the club is skint because of the Glazers and Ineos through their new management are trying to wheel and deal and get blood out of a stone.

They can’t even sell players who are on reasonable wages like AWB, Lindelof and McTominay. My point is the biggest issue right now is midfield and CB right and the £60-70m the club has left needs to be used to buy those two playerr and as soon as possible.
 
I think it's difficult because football players are not normalised cogs at the end of the day. My own personal feelings are that on McTominay we could afford to eat an undervalued bid (the club always considered him a 30m player) but 20m was stretching it. On AWB they were right to stand firm at 15m & VDB was so thoroughly surplus we had to cut it for the good of everyone.

I don't think there's really a one size fits all policy you can adhere to there (same with arrivals) and I can't fault the club to be a little more firm on not getting swindled. There's a lot of costs and opportunity costs at replacing players (replacements will probably on higher wages than AWB and McT, no guarantees they'll do better). One decent sale where it feels we got our fair compensation for the player would help tint this summer more positively.
 
Craig Ward said:
Onana is a capable shot stopper. He does things De Gea doesnt. He also has the most important factor in a GK that De Gea lost completely - self belief.

De Gea was so error prone and stale. People jus recall the glory days - unfortunately he'd become a liability so we rightly moved on. We upgraded
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De Gea had downgraded from his peak, without question, but De Gea's shot-stopping form in his last season was significantly superior to Onana's shot-stopping form last season. This is not plausibly deniable.

But of course the argument for Onana is that he's brilliant with the ball at his feet, whereas De Gea was shambolic with the ball at his feet. I completely agree that Onana's ball distribution is superior to De Gea's but the tradeoff comes at too high a price. We now have a mediocre shot stopper, maybe not even average in view of the other 19 starting PL keepers last season, and we saw that especially in CL play. And in terms of improved team outfield play due to Onana's brilliant footwork, it never happened. And those who question how brilliant Onana's distribution actually is would have a decent argument.

I share the belief many have here that Onana will improve as a shot stopper this season over what we saw from him last season, but if he doesn't improve -- both in terms of his shot stopping as well as distribution -- we are completely fukked again and will need to consider our options to replace him.
 
Hoof the ball said:
It'll be a deal on deadline day for Amrabat. Thats all it'll be. Yoro, Zirkzee and Amrabat.

AWB won't be sold. Nor will McTominay, Eriksen, Maguire, Lindelof or anyone, and therefore we won't have the means to anything else.

The sooner most folks accept this as the inevitable likelihood, the sooner expectations can be lowered on the players, on the manager, on the entire infrastructure.

This is it, at least until next summer. Enjoy the season for whatever surprises it may bring, but don't go in expecting. It will be a difficult top four finish.
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Yeah looking like it. People will flame me for this, but this is why I was hoping for owners who could pump more cash in, and we wouldnt be in a situation like this. Or atleast new people in charge who were better at selling players. Neither seems to have happened.
 
Goalie to at least challenge Onana
1 LB
2 CBs to replace Lindelof and Mcguire.
RB to replace AWB
3 CM to go alongside Mainoo.
LW to replace Rashford
RW to replace Sancho.


We couldn't do it all one summer. But we needed to sign least 5-6 players this window.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Yeah looking like it. People will flame me for this, but this is why I was hoping for owners who could pump more cash in, and we wouldnt be in a situation like this. Or atleast new people in charge who were better at selling players. Neither seems to have happened.
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INEOS have put money in but there's a limit to how much that would make a difference. Selling players wasn't difficult due to the competency of the people doing the transfers out before.
 
All these potential outgoings required to give us the ability to spend, and we're straining at a gnat to get AWB sold, but surely we can get decent money for Pellistri? Surely we can get 20m.
 
thegregster said:
Goalie to at least challenge Onana
1 LB
2 CBs to replace Lindelof and Mcguire.
RB to replace AWB
3 CM to go alongside Mainoo.
LW to replace Rashford
RW to replace Sancho.


We couldn't do it all one summer. But we needed to sign least 5-6 players this window.
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Yeah still at least 3 players short of good window
 
We cant sell and cant seem to get our main targets. However, I would have expected that we still buy some under the radar, talented yet unknow players that cost less. Seems like we still dont find these kind of players
 
BrilliantOrange said:
If we have the funds and are able to offload Sancho and Antony, would Chiesa be worth bringing in? Thiago Motta confirmed Juve are looking to sell!
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We're not going to be able to offload either of them, let alone both. You couldn't give Antony away for free on his wages; we'd have to offer massive money to offset his excess salary.
 
Remember the geese said:
With a pinch of optimism, I think we can go some way to completing the rebuild next summer with 4 or 5 signings. This is assuming we manage to get Mazraoui, De Ligt and Ugarte over the line this window. A year from now, potentially we could be looking at something like this:

Onana
Bayindir
Heaton/Someone else

Shaw
Amass
Martinez
Branthwaite
De Ligt
Yoro
Dalot
Mazraoui

Wharton
Ugarte
Mainoo
Collyer/New CM
Fernandes
Mount

N. Williams
Garnacho
Amad
Lacey/New winger

Højlund
Zirkzee
Obi-Martin
Wheatley

This would put us in a position where for the forseeable, we would only need to make small adjustments here and there each window.
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Interesting. If we're spending £40M transfer fee and £50M wages (£10M a year for 5 years) on De Ligt, that's a £90M investment. Don't think we'd be doing that to make him 4th choice center back. Though I suppose £90M amortized over 5 years is only £18M a year. It's doable; it's less than the PSR charge for Maguire.

Looks like we won't get Ugarte. Also think it'd be tough to add three top talents in one window (Wharton, Williams, Branthwaite). Even getting De Ligt + Berge this year and Wharton + a winger a step below Williams would still leave the team looking bright. That'd have us at:

Striker: Højlund, Zirkzee, Obi-Martin
Winger: New Winger, Rashford, Garnacho, Amad, Sancho, Antony
Mid: Bruno, Mainoo, Wharton, Mount
FB: Dalot, Shaw, Amass
CB: Licha, Yoro, De Ligt
GK: Onana

Would be a strong team.
 
IDEAL WORLD- you get rid of Sancho, Antony, Casemiro, Mctominay,Eriksen, Lindelof, Hannibal, Pellestri ( if he aint gonna play)

Maguire i would keep as he will play quite a bit and he was one of our better performers last season.
No point selling AWB for 15mill, lousy fee and he can still do a job.

That all said i think of that list only Hannibal and Pellistri leave on loan most likely.
 
If the rumours about Shaw being injured are true we are so fecked. We can’t go another season with a makeshift left back.
 
Andy_Cole said:
This could potentially be our worst summer since the Fellaini summer. Well done INEOS.
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Not INEOS fault. If you were had a choice of staying where you were or leaving and being on half wages what would you do?

This is all on woodward and murtough
 
bb8 said:
Interesting. If we're spending £40M transfer fee and £50M wages (£10M a year for 5 years) on De Ligt, that's a £90M investment. Don't think we'd be doing that to make him 4th choice center back. Though I suppose £90M amortized over 5 years is only £18M a year. It's doable; it's less than the PSR charge for Maguire.

Looks like we won't get Ugarte. Also think it'd be tough to add three top talents in one window (Wharton, Williams, Branthwaite). Even getting De Ligt + Berge this year and Wharton + a winger a step below Williams would still leave the team looking bright. That'd have us at:

Striker: Højlund, Zirkzee, Obi-Martin
Winger: New Winger, Rashford, Garnacho, Amad, Sancho, Antony
Mid: Bruno, Mainoo, Wharton, Mount
FB: Dalot, Shaw, Amass
CB: Licha, Yoro, De Ligt
GK: Onana

Would be a strong team.
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Since making my initial post, McTominay and Wan-Bissaka look as if they are staying, which obviously ends any hopes of signing Ugarte, Mazraoui or de Ligt. I think we will possibly sign Sander Berge, but it's now looking like it's going to take two more years to complete the rebuild, as opposed to one.
 
Remember the geese said:
Since making my initial post, McTominay and Wan-Bissaka look as if they are staying, which obviously ends any hopes of signing Ugarte, Mazraoui or de Ligt. I think we will possibly sign Sander Berge, but it's now looking like it's going to take two more years to complete the rebuild, as opposed to one.
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Or 2 for midfield? Berge & Amrabat or Berge and Fofana?
Or a Talent like Mandela
Could be still possible I think
 
Senior Fusion said:
Or 2 for midfield? Berge & Amrabat or Berge and Fofana?
Or a Talent like Mandela
Could be still possible I think
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Potentially we could bring in two, but my thinking was one this window (Ugarte) and then going big for one more next year (Wharton). Berge could come in as a starter for now and in future years be more of a rotational option. However, I feel that we would still need that one big option who we were never going to sign this window regardless. We would also need cover for Mainoo. In a sense, Berge instead of Ugarte doesn't put us any further behind, but no de Ligt or Mazraoui is obviously going to add to the timescale.
 
Looking at the fact that there is no cash currently for transfers bar maybe £55-60m which is What we’ve offered for M De LIGT and Sander Berge, any other transfer depends on actual transfer sales.

Right now the new Directors are using a scattergun approach to try and strong arm the seller into accepting our obvious low balls. No one is playing ball so the club should now quickly pivot and look at the following scenario, Hannibal and Pellistri can and will be sold as they are on ultra low wages. Add £10/15m to the £55/60m and let’s assume that £70m could and should be available.

Best Way to use that cash;
look for the best free options.

Mario Hermoso CB/LB /120k p/w
A Rabiot DM/CM/8 - 165/170k p/w

Then buy the following ;
S Berge/Y Foffana / 25m / 100 p/w
J Lautibeaudiere /10m /60k p/w or
T Harewood- Bellis - 25m /75k p/w

I Toney /30-35m /200k p/w end of window If we have enough money or can do a deal.

I really don’t understand especially with Wilcox knowing both of those young Centre backs, why we are not in for one as a sensible young/quick, Homegrown cheap
Option, both are vastly superior to Will Fish and have the experience at a young age in mens football to be our 3rd/4th option and allow us to force our Lindelof.
 
Paul778 said:
Not INEOS fault. If you were had a choice of staying where you were or leaving and being on half wages what would you do?

This is all on woodward and murtough
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Yeah their clownish amateur antics are costing us
 
pcaming said:
What we need is a miracle honestly. I think the new management has decided to allow this season to unfold however it does instead of over exerting too early.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s another 6-8th place, which if we’re being honest is a fair reflection of the team. When contracts run out next year we’ll really only be left with casemiro and maguire? This season is about who’s gonna sink or swim, not really about success.
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No, Maguire is out of contract after this season (he has an option, but it won't get picked up).

However, unfortunately the contract situation is worse than you laid out. Here are the bad contracts IMO and when they expire:

2025: Maguire, Eriksen, Lindelof

2026: Casemiro, Sancho

2027: Antony

2028: Mount

We're going to be heavily saddled for two more years, and Antony + Mount will take even longer to be rid of. It's why I think INEOS is absolutely spot on to not overcommit on some of these offers; doing so will just add even more long-term problems.
 
Woziak said:
Looking at the fact that there is no cash currently for transfers bar maybe £55-60m which is What we’ve offered for M De LIGT and Sander Berge, any other transfer depends on actual transfer sales.

Right now the new Directors are using a scattergun approach to try and strong arm the seller into accepting our obvious low balls. No one is playing ball so the club should now quickly pivot and look at the following scenario, Hannibal and Pellistri can and will be sold as they are on ultra low wages. Add £10/15m to the £55/60m and let’s assume that £70m could and should be available.

Best Way to use that cash;
look for the best free options.

Mario Hermoso CB/LB /120k p/w
A Rabiot DM/CM/8 - 165/170k p/w

Then buy the following ;
S Berge/Y Foffana / 25m / 100 p/w
J Lautibeaudiere /10m /60k p/w or
T Harewood- Bellis - 25m /75k p/w

I Toney /30-35m /200k p/w end of window If we have enough money or can do a deal.

I really don’t understand especially with Wilcox knowing both of those young Centre backs, why we are not in for one as a sensible young/quick, Homegrown cheap
Option, both are vastly superior to Will Fish and have the experience at a young age in mens football to be our 3rd/4th option and allow us to force our Lindelof.
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Yeah sounds a good strategy but club won't listen
 
Why aren't we after Lutsharel Geertruida? He doesn't seem that expensive (1 year left on his contract, available for a similar price as Mazraoui), suits ETH's football, is Dutch and from the Eredivisie, can play 3 vital positions (RB, CB, DM) and is not injury prone.

Signing him, Ugarte and Hermoso would totally make sense in our current situation.
 
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Todd said:
If that winds up being the sum of our summer business, you can forget about top four, we'll struggle to finish in the top six...
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It’s a longer project than just this season, and so much structure to untangle. I’d say have low expectations for at least 2 years while INEOS, Berrada and Ashworth truly make their mark.

It looks like shit for a reason and we’re all desperate for a great signing, but we all need to be both realistic and have patience.

We hired the right guys, let’s trust them and give them time.
 
It’s already almost mid-August and the clock is now ticking towards the transfer deadline date.
Selling clubs of potential signings are now going to stand firm and not give an inch on their selling position, knowing we have little wriggle room and are short of players in key areas.
Similarly, potential buying clubs (like WHU for AWB) are going to exploit our need to offload players in order to bring in the right quality of new talent.

Don’t blame the new footballing management and INEOS appointed executives if we can’t get sufficient new signings in, or offload the unwanted players.
They’ve had very little time since coming in, to deal with the financial and player contract shitshow they’ve got to deal with.

Whatever our needs in the CB and FB departments, if we are limited in what can be achieved at this late stage, with limited funds, the CDM position has to take top priority over everything else.
 
Don't blame INEOS. We just made terrible signings in Onana, Antony and Mount.
 
Hoping we can do deals for a CB, RFB and CDM (De Ligt, Mazraoui, Ugarte the current names cropping up)

And if we can get Sancho out the door, a versatile forward to replace him.
 
Hojlund
Experienced striker

Rashford Mainoo Bruno Garnacho
Garnacho Zirkzee Mount Diallo

DM1
DM2

Shaw Martinez Yoro Dalot
Amass/LB Maguire RCB RB


Experienced striker = Toney (£30m)
DM1= Ugarte (£40m)/Berge (£20m)
DM2= Rabiot/Amrabat (£15m)
LB= Mazraoui
RCB = De Ligt (£30m)
RB = Mazraoui (£20m)

Move on Sancho (possibly swap Ugarte), Casemiro (if at all possible), Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Eriksen, McTominay maybe Antony.

De Ligt and Mazraoui is done just waiting to move on Wan Bissaka and everyone playing brinksmanship over fees.

Ugarte fee may be too high but Sancho going the other way could make that easier. If not then Berge. Preference would probably be both if fees can be negotiated down.

Rabiot a better player than Amrabat as second DM but DM not his best/preferred position.

It doesn’t make sense going into the season without an experienced striker and Toney makes too much sense. Late swoop on the cards if we can free up funds. Fan pleaser to end the window.

Next summer Branthwaite to replace Maguire and an upgrade on the DM position.
 
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