Voting is always worthwhile. Vote for a party that isn't Labour or the Conservatives. It's the only effective way to push policies closer to the way you want them. Staying home is exactly what they want you to do so they can maintain the 2 party state.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
Voting is always worthwhile. Vote for a party that isn't Labour or the Conservatives. It's the only effective way to push policies closer to the way you want them. Staying home is exactly what they want you to do so they can maintain the 2 party state.
Sure I watched the shadow home secretary tear the plan to shreds in the commons and in various media interviews. Labour's alternative plan is to tie migration to skills shortages with effective workforce planning.
There has to be some control on migration.
There can be control on immigration without demonisation of immigrants.
So the new £38k for spouse visa's will also apply for renewals. Are they fecking mental? This is actually disgusting
Are they genuinely going to break families apart if someone can't all of a sudden earn an extra £10k?
I honestly don't even know what to say
Are they genuinely going to break families apart if someone can't all of a sudden earn an extra £10k?
I honestly don't even know what to say
I don’t think they expect it to really happen on their watch. They’re going to call an election next year and they want this policy in place for that. If they lose the election it gives Labour a massive headache because if they reverse the scheme and immigration stays high then it’s labours fault. If it lowers immigration they will point to it as their victory not labours however what it will also do is absolutely pile the pressure on the NHS and the economy which will be a massive headache for Labour.
I'm not really sure they've thought this through. There are so many research and academic positions in sectors they apparently care more about than others but they don't get anywhere near the 38k threshold.
EDIT: Unless it's a ploy as @Pexbo states above.
EDIT: Unless it's a ploy as @Pexbo states above.
You'd hope but I don't think so. This is meant to come into place at Spring, and realistically the earliest election will be May but most likely it will be in September (and that's what media is planning for based on what's been whispered). Only way it will happen earlier is if polls look better. Calling an election with this being a policy is a good move but risky when so far behind and contentious
The spouse visa thing could easily be amended to not impact British citizens looking to bring partners for example, or even just raising the threshold to 25k, not 38k
Watched that video - she almost agreed with him. Not quite evisceration.
Seen in other Labour documents on their plans to train young people to be builders, bricklayers, electricians and plumbers to build houses etc and people to be nurses , doctors and careworkers. The problem has always been that people don't necessarily want to do those jobs, probably less so now. How many years will this take even if they could persuade (or force?) people to be trained to do these jobs.
So under Labour's plan who are going to be trained to do the more menial and low paid jobs that don't require any skills. Sounds like some 12 year old's fantasy homework project.
I don't think Cooper is demonising immigrants. I don't think Labour are demonising immigrants. They want a better system for managing immigration, for example they want to improve the asylum application process rather than shipping people to Rwanda.
Labour have to be careful in their language because the RW press will take any gentle language as a sign of weakness and attack and unfortunately the average British voter is a simple, trusting soul.
I have contacts in the local Labour Party. We have a predicted 8 or 9k majority but the biggest challenge we face on swing or Tory voters moving to a Labour vote is the perception that Starmer failed to prosecute Saville. Perceptions matter.
We should train people to be bricklayers and joiners etc and whilst we do that, we should have managed immigration to fill the need now.
But this is not something new, it's been the same for decades - what if people don't want to be bricklayers and joiners. Who does all the low paid jobs like cleaners and fruit-pickers and factory workers. and waiters etc etc etc?
The new system since Brexit which means the Uk only want immigrants to fill gaps and then go away again is atrocious and has led to much more short-term immigration and much more of it.
The answer is simple, since demand in jobs is always elastic, but those who have control (employers) are ideologically against doing what's right. Pay more for these positions, and improve working conditions.
Can#t speak for the first 3, but my best friend is a chef in a high-end restaurant and waiters and kitchen staff are really mistreated and low paid, and it's an industry wide phenomenon.
This is all an elaborate boomer plan to get back at their grandchildren. Consistently vote to the detriment of the younger generation, throw out all the care workers and wreck the NHS just so they can have them at their bedsides wiping their arses to earn their slice of the will from the multiple properties they've been renting out as HMO's (to immigrants) that will need to be sold off on their passing.
This is the most coherent argument for the Tory strategy. Just need to add in something about increasing the wealth inequality.
It’s cheaper if half of the population die anyway
But the menial jobs won't be filled by British people. The people who run these companies aren't going to pay high salaries for low-skilled jobs.
My son-in-law has his own small building company here where he just about makes a living. He was hoping that his two sons would take over the business, my grandsons, who are teenagers. Neither have the slightest intention of becoming a builder. It's not worth all the hassle and they can see that at 50 their father is physically worn out with at least another fifteen years before retirement.
The small scale building industry is going to change massively in the next decade, and those teenagers would be raking it in if they knew how to progress now. Cnc fab and 3d printing are the future and nobody in the country is remotely on top of the curve.
CNC has been talked about for decades. And it's a long way off. But that doesn't remove the need for builders etc for existing properties.
In any case Labour aren't talking about new ways of building houses but instead about bricklayers etc.
Builder appropriate cnc is about £8k now, less if you have welding and engineering skill or bought during covid. 3d printing a bit more as you need ceramics capability/kilns but still, the point stands. People with those skills in the industry will make a lot of money. I did mean for existing builds not prefabs, being able to make custom pipes/brackets/ceramics on the fly saves a lot of time and money. I agree with you though on the core point (brexit disaster hello there)
I will say again that I don’t think the average person in the UK understands how much their healthcare service is propped up by immigrants. And the NHS is generally not a very good place to work anyway. As a doctor, of the big English speaking countries (UK, Canada, US, Australia), when viewed as a whole in terms of wages, training opportunities, staffing and structural setup, the UK is comfortably the worst of the four.
It does seem like employers have become more ideologically short-sighted over the past decade. I've seen it happen myself across the charity / higher education sectors with constant cutbacks and vanity projects leading the way. The people running these organisations are usually well up for change but resistant to the reality of training and improving working conditions. Interestingly they've become increasingly good at talking the right game, which is all that seems to matter now.
I can't say what it's like for other industries but I think a lot of grunt staff can see it happening a mile off. I wouldn't be shocked if overall stress levels have skyrocketed with worse real-term pay and covering about three jobs being the norm.
Colleges are, where I am at least. But then all the colleges are underfunded because the SNP really don't like anything other than universities.
Yes but all the parts that are manufactured still have to be installed and adjusted and repaired etc.
The main object is to grow the economy first but I see no plan how this will happen. You mentioned a customs union a free movement of goods (which comes with capital/services and labour ie being in the EU, which is also a long way off and further more Starmer has already ruled that out. Which is why I said previously Starmer doesn't understand Brexit and still thinks there's a menu he can select from. There's only one type of Brexit , The UK has it.
A technical college that teaches maths, coding, engineering, and mechanics seems like a winner to me. I'm just a hobbyist but there's a big disconnect in the workplace between 'mechanics' 'engineers' and 'coders' when essentially, they all do the same thing, or at least work on different parts of the same problems. I should check if there are any 'adult education' courses near me that have the big cnc machines though; would save me some cash.
Aye but you increase productivity greatly if you can say, machine a custom bracket or fitting for a specific spot in a house and then install it, instead of ordering it in and cutting it to size etc.
Can't do anything but agree. It's complete defeatism, to just rely on closed markets and import tariffs. It's telling the world you're not even going to try to compete and that you're production is crap so your exports will be to. (especially as they face tariffs)
You're quite right about them being ideological. I work in HR and have come across way too many founders and CEOs who are like that, and I've explained to them that it doesn't matter if they ideologically do not care about diversity and being a good employer, it is a great investment for them to implement both in their workplaces because it will make them money. By the numbers, high employee turnover, low productivity, and missing out on good talent is going to cost you way more than actually being a good employer, with respectable salaries, employees with good productivity, a wider and better talent pool, and a good reputation. Goes in from one ear, comes out of the other. I've given up on jobs because of this shit.
https://x.com/catneilan/status/1732459709548941803?s=46&t=3cSPEXx54yOkvLX_Hq8XPw
I think Rishi is toast…
I think Rishi is toast…
it is appropriate that a party that has long ceased any attempt at serious government is tearing itself apart over a completely unserious “policy” like Rwanda.
The Tories are desperate for the UK to become a 4th world country and if they try to circumvent international law, to lose their international trade agreements too.
Robert Jenrick resigns as immigration minister, MPs told
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67640833
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67640833
Just been watching Channel 4 news and a senior Tory MP was saying that the only way to stop the small boats was to depot people who came on small boats is to send them to Rwanda..... the only way.
There is clearly not an only way and to say it is is ridiculous in the extreme.
In all my long days I have never seen a government so fixated on one issue. And they are tearing themselves apart pretending that Rwanda is a safe place.
Nothing else now seems to matter to them.
They have convinced themselves that this will win them the election. There's nothing else left. They've completely trashed the country on everything. The government is filled with incompetent fools who should never be anywhere close to power. That is another legacy of Johnson who surrounded himself with people that were even more incompetent than himself.
How long before the votes of no confidence begin to come in? I'd be surprised if Sunak survives till the end of January.
Listening to the current situation, it appears that despite a great deal of disunity within the Tories, there isn't even a consensus. The right think the Rwanda Bill doesn't go far enough while others don't think it will work.
The disunity is disunited.
https://x.com/gbnews/status/1732480024060510358?s=46&t=wxpuqJtaIkz2kcV7xGORhg
Unbelievable. This country is so shit right now.
Unbelievable. This country is so shit right now.
Following yet another resignation, the simple fact is that the whole Rwanda fiasco has become such a shambolic mess that even if it happened, it would hardly benefit the government popularity before the next GE.
It is fiddling while Rome burns.
It is fiddling while Rome burns.