Westminster Politics

every single footballer with an ounce of credibility should post it.
from the river to the sea.
 
Drainy said:
That the land from the river Jordan to the sea should all be Palestinian land. The mechanism how it would work is the point of controversy.
Some people claim its genocidal, at least in origin.
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It was also used by Likud in their charter to signify 'Israeli sovereignty'.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:






Never forget the political editor of the national broadcaster was in love/a sycophant of Johnson
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She is an embarrassment.
Boris Johnson is a proven liar and anyone who tries to challenge that is just an halfwit.

But being a proven compulsive liar is the least of his attributes.
He has zero skill sets required for leadership.
And anyone who voted for him is culpable for the broken state of the UK.
 
Downloaded the audiobook of James O'Brien's new book 'How they Broke Britain'.

After listening to the introduction I was curious to see the reviews, the first of which I saw was from The Telegraph (one of the most often maligned organs in the book) and, to the surprise of nobody, it's been given a 2 star rating - citing 'the same old ramblings' and noting how examples are weak at best.

It's pathetic how much these places are able to mark their own homework.
 
Red in STL said:
Whatever happens Labour should do a deal with the Lib Dems to get Electoral reform done,
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No chance, especially if Labour gets a sizeable majority in the GE.
Whenever the Labour or Tory Party win a sizeable/working majority in a GE you can say goodbye to any electoral reform for the next five years.
FPTP system works for the Tories and occasionally for Labour, hence to coin a phrase, "they've won it all, they've topped the lot... and neither is ever going to stop".
 
Maticmaker said:
No chance, especially if Labour gets a sizeable majority in the GE.
Whenever the Labour or Tory Party win a sizeable/working majority in a GE you can say goodbye to any electoral reform for the next five years.
FPTP system works for the Tories and occasionally for Labour, hence to coin a phrase, "they've won it all, they've topped the lot... and neither is ever going to stop".
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I don't disagree, that's exactly what will happen and that is the problem, nothing will change because of "self-interest" in the moment and in the long run that hurts Labour far more than the Tories
 
Drifter said:


Total BS
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Such nonsense. The ironic thing is when the Israeli government use it it’s not considered anti-Arab or Islamaphobic but if the other side uses it it’s anti-Semitic. The Israeli government have used this phrase and are literally removing Palestinian presence as we speak but they’d rather call out footballers who are showing solidarity for Palestinians. Idiotic of the FA.
 
Maticmaker said:
No chance, especially if Labour gets a sizeable majority in the GE.
Whenever the Labour or Tory Party win a sizeable/working majority in a GE you can say goodbye to any electoral reform for the next five years.
FPTP system works for the Tories and occasionally for Labour, hence to coin a phrase, "they've won it all, they've topped the lot... and neither is ever going to stop".
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Yes, it suits both main parties. The Tories win 3 times out of 4 but Labour (and the Tories) realise they would split into different parties under a PR system.
 
Red in STL said:
I don't disagree, that's exactly what will happen and that is the problem, nothing will change because of "self-interest" in the moment and in the long run that hurts Labour far more than the Tories
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They don't care about the long run. All they care about is padding their CVs over the next few years. The don't care how it hurts Labour or the country long-term as that won't be their problem to deal with.

Self serving cnuts with no vision of the future outside of their own careers. It's no wonder people are so disillusioned with politics these days.
 
Bert_ said:
They don't care about the long run. All they care about is padding their CVs over the next few years. The don't care how it hurts Labour or the country long-term as that won't be their problem to deal with.

Self serving cnuts with no vision of the future outside of their own careers. It's no wonder people are so disillusioned with politics these days.
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I'd say that applies more to the Tories than Labour but that is the problem, everythinbg is short-term, maybe everyone needs to vote Lib Dem then, they at least would change it but probably feck everything else up!
 
Red in STL said:
I'd say that applies more to the Tories than Labour but that is the problem, everythinbg is short-term, maybe everyone needs to vote Lib Dem then, they at least would change it but probably feck everything else up!
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You get more MPs with genuine conviction in Labour for sure. But the ones running the party at the minute certainly don't. At least not above their personal ambitions.

Lib Dems are no different. They just know that their best chance to gain power is PR. We all saw how strong their believes were when they abandoned all their policies for cabinet positions in 2010.
 
Red in STL said:
I'd say that applies more to the Tories than Labour but that is the problem, everything is short-term, maybe everyone needs to vote Lib Dem then, they at least would change it but probably feck everything else up!
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Short-termism is my pet hate, in government and out. Thatcher's market forces bollocks made it a lot worse, and we've never shaken it off.

As for PR, I don't get how people can support PR and not expect coalitions, that seems to be the essence of the thing to me. And as the far left are incapable of forming a party then voting Liberal does seem to be the only way to get to it, by voting them into coalition (again) and hope they've learned that next time they have to insist on putting forward a version of PR that people will actually vote for.
 
Generally wonder what her goal is here because surely youre losing more support than you're gaining with statements like that.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Generally wonder what her goal is here because surely youre losing more support than you're gaining with statements like that.
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You say that, but she loads of rightwingers adore her and have zero compassion for anyone.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Generally wonder what her goal is here because surely youre losing more support than you're gaining with statements like that.
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She's gaining the support of the Tory party in the belief that they'll win again, if not the next election then the one after. They've knocked the whole "pretend to care" thing on the head and have discovered the key to electoral success is to promise to kick anyone who's down.

She'll present herself as the law and order candidate and say she's just talking about fairness and justice - or as Anatole France phrased it back in the 19th century:
"In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets, and steal loaves of bread."

As for anyone arriving on a boat looking for a place of safety or anyone protesting about anything - declare it illegal and see if one of your mates wants to rent you a ship anchored somewhere.
 
Bert_ said:
Lb Dems are no different. They just know that their best chance to gain power is PR. We all saw how strong their believes were when they abandoned all their policies for cabinet positions in 2010.
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You saw what PR would look like for real. Parties trading policies for power. Because that is what PR demands. Fine if you are OK with that, but if you genuinely want a PR based system, then you can't really judge the Lib Dems for their compromise with the Tories.

In PR those compromises are made after the election between parties. Under first past the post, those compromises are made before the election within parties.
 
nickm said:
You saw what PR would look like for real. Parties trading policies for power. Because that is what PR demands. Fine if you are OK with that, but if you genuinely want a PR based system, then you can't really judge the Lib Dems for their compromise with the Tories.

In PR those compromises are made after the election between parties. Under first past the post, those compromises are made before the election within parties.
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Under PR the Libs could have formed a coalition with Labour and governed with a majority in 2010.

Policy trading and coalitions are an inevitable part of PR, but at least the goverment formed will be more representative of the electorate and enact policies more broadly supported by the public. The current system which allows one party absolute power with only 43.6% of the vote is a disaster.
 
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