Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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Oh my goodness.
That is genuinely outrageous that an Oyster for older voters is OK but not for those 18-30. Where's that @Maticmaker guy when you need him to explain how it's alright because young people don't need a vote anyway, they'll only waste it?
Braverman going full hate speech. Vile cnut .
But Gary Lineker compared it to the language used in early 1930s Germany. Have some perspective
You saw through that one didn't you.... to be honest I have no idea about the difference in oyster card acceptability as proof of identity... I have to admit that does seem unreasonable, but its a hell of a long list and anyway there is the FREE Voting Authority Certificate available to those who have no other way of proving their identity, if they can be bothered to apply!PS just been told its seen as part of their 'first time voter' apprenticeship... equivalent to the old fashioned being sent for a 'long stand' routine , that was regularly played on new apprentices
Culture war at work, using sweeping headlines using zero knowledge or facts. The worst kind of Politician, someone who doesn't give a flying feck about anyone and riles up people using misinformation which have consequences.
The home office issued a report in 2020.
"A new Home Office report admits grooming gangs are not a ‘Muslim problem'"
"Research has found that most group based offenders are most commonly white"
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/dec...-admits-grooming-gangs-are-not-muslim-problem
They all keep their fecking heads down and do the usual 'vote for Tory' when the election comes along.
Irony is theres lots of British Pakistani conservatives. Considering the home secretary thinks they are all scum, shows what utter stooges they are.
You're continuing with your ridiculous 'can't be bothered' angle despite openly admitting that even such a conscientious voter such as yourself, someone who spends a huge amount of time waffling about politics on this forum, was unaware of this widely discussed at the time, variance on Oyster Card ID? Does this not trigger an epiphany?
PS just been told its seen as part of their 'first time voter' apprenticeship... equivalent to the old fashioned being sent for a 'long stand' routine , that was regularly played on new apprentices
Re: IDs. Isn't it because they're all government mandated ID determined by OAP status whereas other forms of ID are done through third-parties?
Asking for a friend.
Asking for a friend.
Your right, I can 'waffle' with the best of you... just saying I can't explain why that particular oyster card isn't included, is there perhaps some suspected 'scam' going on with these cards... can they be 'adjusted/forged' in some way...etc.? I just don't know sorry!
However, it still does not negate the fact that people should be able to prove who they are when voting, proving who you are is something increasingly everyone is expected to do in many areas of life, its becoming a fact of life.
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No. The "young persons" IDs require proof of age and many are issued by the government.
And many of the older persons IDs are from 3rd parties.
It is a political choice. Oyster cards (to take one example) re at much of a risk for forgery regardless of the age of the holder.
It's the exact same card and method of acquiring it as the 60+ one. You are engaging in mental gymnastics to excuse voter repression. Even if you agreed with the need for ID, there are no excuses for deliberately favouring older voters in it's implementation.
Laughing about it it like it's sending an apprentice on a wild goose chase is pretty glib. It'd be much more like stealing the apprentice's pay cheque and saying "hahahahaaaa come back next month you little oik when you've acquired your FREE certificate of pay cheque authenticity to prove who you are!"
Which would of course be a crime.
That isn't the issue though, is it? The point, and I'm sure you can see this, is that they have chosen to introduce ID to vote, whether you think that is reasonable or not and leaving aside the fact that voter fraud is close to non existent, with a list of acceptable IDs that is clearly and undeniably skewed towards the older in society. You seem to genuinely not think this Government has done this to suppress the group most likely to vote against them, despite their track record of sharp practice and clear contempt for democracy, and keep on calling people who may be disenfranchised lazy and uninformed. All this, despite you, yourself, having been proven to not be fully informed and you are actually quite passionate about such matters. Can you not see?
Stay at home folks where there is shit in the sea.
Great. We can look forward to more baseless racial attacks on brown people.
I always think back to this tweet. Think it's probably quite a good assessment of things.
I don't know if the likes of Patel or Bravermann were taught at a young age that they were the 'good immigrants' and the 'bad ones' were ruining for them or what. No idea. But I think if you were to delve into their personal history and upbringing you'd strike something along those lines.
i was just thinking of that tweet after reading the Bravermann tweet. O'Brien copped a lot of heat from the twitter bleeding hearts telling him his comments "were just as bad" as hers. They will never learn, the authortarian right will always go further in rhetoric when they are unchallenged. Sunak should sack her for that comment alone but it will be endorsed by all the "right" people. Wouldn't be surprised if there is a big Daily Mail cover story about it.
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I think this is the survivor fallacy.
They may have made it through hard work, but the flaw is that only a few people in their position could ever succeed. But instead of changing the rules so that the system leads to more success for more people, the lesson they have learned is that everyone who failed clearly didn't work hard enough.
It also allows them to ignore all the familial advantages that they had that helped them succeed too.
Not that such beliefs are constrained to children of immigrants. Plenty of white British people believe it too.
I mean Starmer will have to respond. Maybe with a policy stating all teenagers need to join Combat 18 to counter the brown grooming gangs?
Are any young people who are eligible to vote actually being prevented (this does not mean being inconvenienced) from doing so?
No..so its not voter repression is it, its at best voter inconvenience...a contrived inconvenience maybe, but not repression?
Why would the government choose to do this and insert this 'inconvenience'? You say because lots of young people would not vote for the present government, but what about those young people that would vote for the Government, wouldn't it be 'cutting noses off' to spite faces?
This an obvious occurrence, the longer people live the wider the range of ID is available to them, its nothing to do with being 'skewed'.
Figures from past elections (where no ID as such has been required on the day) tend to show that many young people are, perhaps at that time in their life not that interested in politics or in voting. I am quite sure that at the next GE those young people who are interested will make sure they do vote, whatever their choice is and make sure they are meeting the requirements so that they can do so, so surely this flies in the face of what you are insisting are the governments reasons for making life more difficult for young people to vote. That is the rate of information flow via younger people is ten times faster maybe even a hundred times fast, now there is social media etc. I would hazard a guess that there would be more older people, who know less about this change, than their younger counterparts.
I appreciate that you and others on this site believe all this is a 'nasty Tory trick' to deprive young people of their right to vote, if it is, then it has the potential to go horribly wrong.... wouldn't you say?
Yep that well known 18-30 oyster or 16-25 railcard scam. We're all in on it, there's millions to be made!
If they turn up on the day to vote with no / the wrong ID because they are ill informed then their vote won't count. Their vote will have been repressed. It's not rocket science.
And no it doesn't really have the potential to go horribly wrong for the Tories because it's a numbers game and they've stacked the odds in their favour. It's a well established tactic in the US and other malfunctioning democracies around the world if you want to game the system towards right wing / incumbent governments where polls show older people favour them compared to the young. If you don't understand that they're risking losing one vote to discount 2 of the opposition's votes then please don't ever go to a casino or the bookies, they'll have the shirt off your back.
@rimaldo at it again
left wing, right wing; they’re just a shag and some free clothes to me.
Oh dear don't think its a good idea to confirm it on a open site like this... just adds to delusions
I think that's perhaps a little simplistic. I think some people have a tendency to lump all immigrants or non white people together as if they should all be allies. This ignores the fact that,just like white people, there are a whole range of viewpoints in there. On top of that, there are intricacies between how those racial groups may view others, as well as how well integrated (for whatever reasons) one group may be compared to another.
My own feeling is that Indian and afro Caribbean origin immigrants often have the easiest time integrating and being accepted into general culture in this country, part of which I imagine may be to do with acceptability of alcohol intake etc.
There's also traditionally not exactly been much love lost between the Indian and Pakistani groups in this country for instance. I can totally believe that Braverman, born in this country, parents coming under a ' legal scheme' from Africa, married to a white man and who (unlike sunak at least) has never shown an inkling of being interested in portraying any aspect of her south Asian origin/ culture, feels absolutely no affinity whatsoever with Muslim Pakistani origin Brits and may indeed feel quite a bit more acrimony towards them than the average white brit might.
Oh dear don't think its a good idea to confirm it on a open site like this... just adds to delusions
Probably about as believable as genuinely thinking there's a real reason to block those from being used while allowing the use of the 60+ oyster, as as your faux ignorance at what those reasons may be eh!?
Keep it up though. Guess you stop the forum from being a general echo chamber, I'll give you that at least.
Thought it would be more like discount 1 to lose 5 or 6, but you know better!
They nearly did...long ago when I was young and foolish
Thank you.... kind sir/madam/whoever, its great entertainment at times, but try to keep it serious!
I stand corrected! Thanks for explaining.
I wonder if his brothel membership card was in his pocket and he needs it to vote.
There seems to be a tendency of right wings government to have women put forward the most cruel policies but I’m not sure it’s about white supremacy though.
She didn’t choose herself for the role. She was hand picked, for a reason.