You are heading fast toward a general election, there is no way Sunak resists both internal and external pressure.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
Good
There’s no chance the tories call a general election currently. They’ll give it as long as possible to try and turn it around.
The party is so deeply divided right now that I don't think anyone can unite them. Their best bet for 'unity' is actually just letting the biggest tribe run the party, which is probably Sunak supporters right now. Mordaunt will only get nominated by Boris backers wanting to stop Sunak out of spite, her true level of support is probably fewer than 50 MPs. She'll make an enemy of Sunak & his supporters, Team Boris is already calling for a General Election, and she's going to spend the next two years forcing through cuts that are unpopular even among Tories. I don't see how she can force through unpopular votes in the House with such little support.
I think being so clearly and obviously incompetent, short lived AND regressive means Kwarteng will have done absolutely nothing to advance representation and quite possibly the opposite. Even if you could find a lot of young black British people who had any time for him, I would have thought they'd now view his public shafting and removal from office as exactly evidence that the role is not for people like them.
I would really disagree to be honest. I remember reading an essay a few years ago about a teacher asking kids in a school, many of whom were from ethnic minorities, to write stories. And pretty much all of them, if not all, wrote stories about white kids with white names because that is all they'd ever seen. One of them even explicitly said I believe that they did so because they didn't know it was possible to write stories about non white people.
So going back to the example I gave above. Does Zahawi actively go to the media and constantly talk about British Arab issues (not as far as I'm aware and I would find it strange if he did). But he does represent an Arab face for people who are not used to seeing that at the top of British politics.
Same with the likes of Kwarteng and Sunak. So it's important to change those looks, even if the hope is to actually get them out because they're utter twats.
I want to emphasise what I mean by representation. I don't mean in the broad sense as them being allies of downtrodden people or people of colour. They very clearly are not. I am talking in the strictest possible sense, of there physically being someone in those positions, for young people to look and see. Perhaps some will look and see that sunak for instance has nothing to do with them and they still can't see any path into politics at all. But, from personal experience anyway, having those people there at least provides the difference in appearance, in background , vs seeing a sea of white male faces.
They’re clearly not going to call a general election tomorrow, I don’t think anyone is claiming they will. They’re clearly heading towards one though, Sunak is not going to hold the party together, it’s full of self interested wankers who are backed by various factions who at this point all have very different ideas about how we should be governed.
He’s going to struggle to whip a majority on various policies and be left with no choice but to call a GE.
Again, see above. I'm not talking about representation with regards to them representing us (why would a south Asian Hindu be more able to empathise with a west African Christian or Muslim anyway) or any grand idea about more ethnic minorities in power making it 'easier'.
I'm talking in the very narrow sense of kids growing up, seeing faces on television in high positions that they wouldn't have previously seen. As I said, I've seen ancecdotally first hand how this can manifest.
This again is no comment on their awful politics or their 'kinship' with people of colour.
I really don't understand the point of the so called MPs indicative vote. Surly they have already done that. And thus far over 50% have indicated their preferences.
And what confidence can we have in the Tory party members vote when they have already shown their incompetence by voting for Truss only a few weeks ago.
The country deserves to have their vote in a GE in order to kick out the Tories who have ruined this Great Britain for the last 12 years. So why should we have to put up with another 2 years.
The whole thing is a total disgrace and we deserve better.
And what confidence can we have in the Tory party members vote when they have already shown their incompetence by voting for Truss only a few weeks ago.
The country deserves to have their vote in a GE in order to kick out the Tories who have ruined this Great Britain for the last 12 years. So why should we have to put up with another 2 years.
The whole thing is a total disgrace and we deserve better.
They wont. They know they'll lose.
Sunak is the best of the bunch and should have beaten Truss in the first place, he's a bright bloke and at least understands how the economy works. For the sake of the country they need to get behind him and stabilise the economy first, and then they can think about elections.
You've got to remember those selfish feckers profit financially from being in their positions. If it comes down to abstaining or voting against something they believe in or losing their jobs at an election, most of them will compromise on their disgusting principles and find a way to justify it to themselves.
Only way a GE happens is if the Tories get more popular and/or something truly catastrophic happens (war or something) and enough of them realise we need someone competent in charge.
If they had even a modicum of respect for, or interest in, the country they’d call a general election and let the population have its say given that none of them have any kind of mandate.
But they don’t. As they’ve all been quite happy to say over and over again, they’re focused solely on the party and saving their own necks.
There are no good Tories.
I'm imagining Mordaunt being a bit like Nicola Murray when she's on the train phoning people desperately trying to get their support.
Yes indeed.
They seem to have divided themselves not just into the right and centre. But into the ERG, One Nation Conservatives and who knows what else, including those Boris worshippers and a group of anti Sunak potentially racist ones.
And then there are those deeply divided by self interest.
Honestly. What a way to run a country, which is itself increasingly divided by Brexit, right, centre or left wing views, Boris worshippers, racism and much else.
or as we now call it "The BoJo Special Friends Count"
But as XC, wasn't Kwarteng not just carrying out the wishes of Liz Truss. She obviously chose him to do exactly that.
The divide and rule applied to British foreign policy in the past. Now the country seems more divided than ever and is tearing itself apart. The divide and rule seems to have gone full circle.
After the last couple of months the country (economy) needs a period of stability. Calling an election will do the opposite, especially when there are such polarising views on either side now. Whilst I agree the population need to have a say, somebody needs to come in and get things back to normal first for a few months.
There is lots of representation now though. Just a shame they're mostly cnuts like Braverman, Patel, Sunak, Javid, Zahawi and Kwamikasi.
I personally think focusing on skin colour alone to find someone you can relate to is a massive issue too.
A working class black man has a lot more in common with a working class white man than he does some wealthy black elite that's went to private school.
It's a massive concern though if young minorities are looking at some of these tories today and aspiring to be like them on the basis of skin colour. These are not good role models.
Maybe in the short term. But we have had enough of running the country by short term mismanagement.
This.
Yes that’s right, lets leave it to the Tories to gain that stability. That’s worked out so well for the last decade. The party of stability.
They’re such a well balanced bunch all pulling in the same direction with the countries best interest at heart.
I am sure that the UK is not the only divided country.
Brexit was, as you know a total and utter disaster. But we only have to look across the Atlantic to see how deeply divided the US is and has always been.
And I have a number of good friends in Germany who keep telling me how divided it increasingly is becoming. Particularly along racist lines.
And you will know what the situation is in France.
And we know the Tories can provide us with stability, right!
That's the point though. They're cnuts but they're there. They may not be allies but they are unquestionably from an ethnic minority, whether they may be happy with that or not.
I agree with some points here and not others. I'm not saying that they're looking up to them as role models. I'm saying they've smashed a ceiling, one that exists in some kids heads as a permanent impenetrable one.
I know one Indian family who's kid (late teens) is incredibly into politics (left wing, let's hope he stays that way) and is incredibly excited for Sunak to become PM. That isn't because he agrees with his policies or because he idiolises him as a man and politician. It's because a brown man, in his country, in a country and continent that is overwhelmingly white Christian, is about to have a Hindu man of south Asian descent as it's pm. Yes he's insanely rich. Yes he's a twat. Yes he's very privileged. But for him, that is a massive step, in a country that even as recently as 20 years ago, would have had only a smattering of ethnic minority PMs across the whole of the Parliament.
Personally, and it's the same for many others like me, I hope he's competent enough to stabilise the shit show we're in and then gets kicked out along with the rest of his party. I and others can think that whilst also acknowledging how important it is for kids of ethnic minorities to grow up in a society where it's normalised to see non white faces in such positions, even if initially those faces are sadly tory.
Of course there are divisions in all countries. There's never going to be everyone agreeing with each other.
There are just so many in the UK. Apart from Brexit and race issues, even each political party seems to have three or four different sections, the Tories and Labour.
I was thinking this morning. If I still lived in the UK I'd definitely want the Tories out as soon as possible. Then I read what Starmer says about immigration and Brexit and various other things.
Then I think there is no hope and pack my bags and leave again. Sad.
Come on and quickly win Rishi. Not because I like you, I think you are quite vile like the rest of your party. But the only way for the White Tories, sorry I mean Blue Tories, actually no, I was right the first time, will call a general election post haste.
No way Tory voters are masturbating to a brown face for two years.
No way Tory voters are masturbating to a brown face for two years.
Agree, but I thought that's how it's always been run? The nature of our unwritten constitution requires each government to start planning for its next term of office halfway through its first term, consequently the long-term consequences are always planned along the lines of 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'... all well and good when the world was a different place but now 'man's footprint' is weighing heavily on the Earth, things must change!
5-year cycles for each GE? When almost every problem facing us is long term, e.g., Climate change, Levelling up, Energy usage, Mass migration issues, etc. Time for a change definitely, but to what?
(But thankfully dodged a bullet with Boris, he can go back to making millions from his book sales)
I think @11101 is looking at it from a market perspective. We're increasingly becoming seen as an economic and political basket case by investors, this makes us poorer as a country as the cost of debt rises. The early signs are that investors are reassured by Rishi, think the GILT rate went down by 0.25% once it looked likely that Sunak would win. If we go into an election right now it's just more churn and if we end up with a hung parliament and more chaos then we descend further. The Tories can't claim to be a party of financial acumen and stability any more but Sunak may be able to calm the volatility. There is at least an argument that this is in the national interest in the short term.
Mate, just being there doesn't mean it's a good thing if your policies are terrible.
This is going to be a very stable government. The ERG currently has 50+ Tory MPs. If they defy the whip the government has no majority so the new PM will be at the behest of the ERG much to the dismay of the left of the party who were hoping for some fiscal responsibility and small c conservative governance
This is embarrassing.
In the vestibule.