Westminster Politics

Mickeza said:
My brother is 18 - him and all his mates are proper little Tories who have grown up on algorithms of right wing libertarian YouTube bullshit. This is in a working class area in South Wales. I guess that social Marxism uni diet isn’t what it was :(
Click to expand...

I guess it could be an aspirational thing too.

That age group likes the idea of them earning a lot and not being taxed on it, and most may not have kids or need to make use of the welfare state a great deal?
 
I think it's natural for a higher % of young people to think that the highest tax band may become applicable to them, while the majority of older people have lost that hope. If anything it at least shows that young brits haven't lost hope for themselves despite everything the tories have been throwing at them
 
Mickeza said:
My brother is 18 - him and all his mates are proper little Tories who have grown up on algorithms of right wing libertarian YouTube bullshit. This is in a working class area in South Wales. I guess that social Marxism uni diet isn’t what it was :(
Click to expand...
Kick the shit out of the little wanker
 
Frosty said:
I guess it could be an aspirational thing too.

That age group likes the idea of them earning a lot and not being taxed on it, and most may not have kids or need to make use of the welfare state a great deal?
Click to expand...
Yeah definitely could be an aspirational thing. Reminds me of a west wing quote about the issue with the American dream is everyone thinks they’ll be super rich one day. However, I’d argue being in favour of a tax cut for the richest 1.7% in society whilst 18 billion is cut in public spending and a benefits freeze occurs whilst inflation increases by 11% makes you a bit of a cnut - aspirational or not. Now most certainly isn’t the time.
 
Mickeza said:
My brother is 18 - him and all his mates are proper little Tories who have grown up on algorithms of right wing libertarian YouTube bullshit. This is in a working class area in South Wales. I guess that social Marxism uni diet isn’t what it was :(
Click to expand...
Maybe it's just the government and their influence on the curriculum? They will have spent the majority of their education under a Tory/Coalition government, so they could have influenced it in that way. I'm 32 and most people my age at that point in time when we were 18/19 seemed to be left wing (myself included). It was very rare to find a pupil who would have admitted to being a Tory supporter, and this was at a grammar school. Makes me wonder whether maybe we were more influenced than we realise by our education being mostly under the Brown/Blair government, and vice versa with this lot?
 
Mickeza said:
My brother is 18 - him and all his mates are proper little Tories who have grown up on algorithms of right wing libertarian YouTube bullshit. This is in a working class area in South Wales. I guess that social Marxism uni diet isn’t what it was :(
Click to expand...
When he spends a few in the labour market, he will soon realise old Karl is onto something.
 
Pexbo said:


Not what I expected
Click to expand...


I'd want to see that replicated elsewhere before I believed a word of if.

Find today's u-turn very annoying. 2 billion reversed whilst 120 billion for the rest remains (then the other 60 billion required from QE). It's not even a dent yet the coverage is all u-turn.
 
Pexbo said:


Not what I expected
Click to expand...

51% of the people I polled said they would sleep with me. 14% said they would sleep with me if I put a mask on. 30% opposed the idea, 4% hated the idea and 1% didn't understand the question. I asked my wife ninety nine times and the Polish gym instructor who doesn't speak English once.

You can get whatever result you want from a poll if you pick the right folk.
 
Dan600 said:
Maybe it's just the government and their influence on the curriculum? They will have spent the majority of their education under a Tory/Coalition government, so they could have influenced it in that way. I'm 32 and most people my age at that point in time when we were 18/19 seemed to be left wing (myself included). It was very rare to find a pupil who would have admitted to being a Tory supporter, and this was at a grammar school. Makes me wonder whether maybe we were more influenced than we realise by our education being mostly under the Brown/Blair government, and vice versa with this lot?
Click to expand...
Education is devolved in wales so can’t blame education. I remember Tories being incredibly uncool when I was young - maybe it’s more a contrarian edgy thing with the youth today. Like an in-person form of shitposting.
 
How much is the U-Turn going to save the taxpayer than if it had gone ahead?
 
Mickeza said:
Yeah definitely could be an aspirational thing. Reminds me of a west wing quote about the issue with the American dream is everyone thinks they’ll be super rich one day. However, I’d argue being in favour of a tax cut for the richest 1.7% in society whilst 18 billion is cut in public spending and a benefits freeze occurs whilst inflation increases by 11% makes you a bit of a cnut - aspirational or not. Now most certainly isn’t the time.
Click to expand...

Aspiration for being a greedy obnoxious cnut. Entrepreneurship has nothing to do with tax. Most successful entrepreneurs have no problem paying their fair share of tax, it’s lazy greedy cnuts like bankers & hedge fund managers that don’t.
 
Rams said:
Aspiration for being a greedy obnoxious cnut. Entrepreneurship has nothing to do with tax. Most successful entrepreneurs have no problem paying their fair share of tax, it’s lazy greedy cnuts like bankers & hedge fund managers that don’t.
Click to expand...
Seems a bit discriminatory to bankers and hedge fund managers. Plenty of rich people besides them are colossal cnuts - just look at a Tory or Republican donor list. In fact the super rich tend not to pay income tax at all - it’s actually one of the arguments put forward by the Tories for cutting the 45% rate - if we tax them less they won’t avoid it.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/billionaires-federal-income-tax-investigation/amp
 
Mickeza said:
My brother is 18 - him and all his mates are proper little Tories who have grown up on algorithms of right wing libertarian YouTube bullshit. This is in a working class area in South Wales. I guess that social Marxism uni diet isn’t what it was :(
Click to expand...
Pexbo said:
Kick the shit out of the little wanker
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry mate but you haven't got a choice, you gotta slap them around a little.
 
JRM's on a roll today;


Rees-Mogg tells Tories he’d welcome fracking in his back garden
Speaking at a conference fringe event, business secretary dismisses those who oppose practice as ‘socialists’

and fantasy nuclear fusion

UK's first prototype nuclear fusion power station to be built by 2040
Jacob Rees-Mogg has announced the UK’s first prototype nuclear fusion power station will be built in Nottinghamshire by 2040.
 
Frosty said:
I guess it could be an aspirational thing too.

That age group likes the idea of them earning a lot and not being taxed on it, and most may not have kids or need to make use of the welfare state a great deal?
Click to expand...

I know the one and only time I voted Tory at any election was the first time I was eligible to vote when I was 18. I think you are right about the aspirational element - you also are probably at an age where you are more easily swayed by what you read on social media as someone else already replied and even what your parents say.
 
Maticmaker said:
OK, sorry it was my perception you were talking about protests that actually achieved something, (I suppose I shouldn't start reading other people's posts halfway through the exchanges...mea culpa!). Obviously protests 'over time' have a better chance of success, or partial success as the number understanding the arguments or the argument itself tends to increase wider understanding.

My perception is that since the millennium, the various 'protests', in particular on the streets type of protest seem to attract a multiplicity of protesters, of issues and ideas, and they tend to become 'carnival-like' in terms of public perception... aided of course by the (ever greedy) 24-hour/7-day week media news cycle.

Somehow the older/last century 'protests' seem more focused and 'redder in tooth and claw'... but that's probably just me and the benefits of hindsight.
Click to expand...

My initial post was that we don't seem to protest as much nowadays even though there are plenty of things that we ought to be worked up enough about to do so.
And that going back a generation, we as a country used to protest much more.
Obvious the objective is to achieve the end goal.

But your last paragraph is right. Some of those protests were definitely more aggressive and better organised, as were the major strikes.
 
hodgey123 said:
I know the one and only time I voted Tory at any election was the first time I was eligible to vote when I was 18. I think you are right about the aspirational element - you also are probably at an age where you are more easily swayed by what you read on social media as someone else already replied and even what your parents say.
Click to expand...

How long ago was that? Which election year?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
JRM's on a roll today;


Rees-Mogg tells Tories he’d welcome fracking in his back garden
Speaking at a conference fringe event, business secretary dismisses those who oppose practice as ‘socialists’

and fantasy nuclear fusion

UK's first prototype nuclear fusion power station to be built by 2040
Jacob Rees-Mogg has announced the UK’s first prototype nuclear fusion power station will be built in Nottinghamshire by 2040.
Click to expand...

Fantastic news. I look forward to it. Who is going to build it I wonder.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
How long ago was that? Which election year?
Click to expand...

Nearly 10 years ago now - it was only a local/council election I think - voted Labour/Lib Dem (my home constituency is Tory/Lib Dem marginal, London was Labour) in every general election.
 
Mickeza said:
Seems a bit discriminatory to bankers and hedge fund managers. Plenty of rich people besides them are colossal cnuts - just look at a Tory or Republican donor list. In fact the super rich tend not to pay income tax at all - it’s actually one of the arguments put forward by the Tories for cutting the 45% rate - if we tax them less they won’t avoid it.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/billionaires-federal-income-tax-investigation/amp
Click to expand...

I was generalising obviously. But factually most British entrepreneurs are not non-doms and I bet far larger % of investment bankers (who are not wealthy enough to be a non-dom) fiddle their taxes (whilst going on about immigrants & people on benefits). That argument is just spin & bullshit. There are always exceptions, but the vast majority of entrepreneurs pay their tax in the UK and often spend large amount on charity work. There are far less entrepreneurs than investment bankers mind.
 
Rams said:
I was generalising obviously. But factually most British entrepreneurs are not non-doms and I bet far larger % of investment bankers (who are not wealthy enough to be a non-dom) fiddle their taxes (whilst going on about immigrants & people on benefits). That argument is just spin & bullshit. There are always exceptions, but the vast majority of entrepreneurs pay their tax in the UK and often spend large amount on charity work. There are far less entrepreneurs than investment bankers mind.
Click to expand...

In truth every entrepreneur I know reduces their tax as much as possible, whether that's transferring shares and paying dividends to spouses to maximise their £100k (or £150k) each. Whether it's getting their 16 year old on the tax free allowance of £12,570 as soon as possible as its only costing them half. Whether it's holding back bonuses to ensure you don't creep over the £200k level which then reduces your ability to pay into a pension. Entrepreneurs relief is a huge one of course (cutting that from £10m to £1m was a much bigger deal than most account for in dissuading startups). Corporation tax is another that can be manipulated, especially if you think times might be challenging over the next few years.

These are low level of course for business owners earning mid 6 figures annually; when you get to the bigger leagues where the rewards are much higher its not difficult to set up a facilities company in Ireland where your UK companies pay a % of their turnover so a large % of profits are at 12.5% instead of 19%; I know someone that was putting that in place when the rate was due to be increased to 25% (and if you're a global behemoth you'll be paying around 3% in Ireland).

I don't know many that are happy paying current tax or more (hence the aforementioned avoidance practices); if they were they'd donate tens of thousands extra to the treasury whereas every one to a man prefers to avoid some tax and donate to a charity.
 
finneh said:
In truth every entrepreneur I know reduces their tax as much as possible, whether that's transferring shares and paying dividends to spouses to maximise their £100k (or £150k) each. Whether it's getting their 16 year old on the tax free allowance of £12,570 as soon as possible as its only costing them half. Whether it's holding back bonuses to ensure you don't creep over the £200k level which then reduces your ability to pay into a pension. Entrepreneurs relief is a huge one of course (cutting that from £10m to £1m was a much bigger deal than most account for in dissuading startups). Corporation tax is another that can be manipulated, especially if you think times might be challenging over the next few years.

These are low level of course for business owners earning mid 6 figures annually; when you get to the bigger leagues where the rewards are much higher its not difficult to set up a facilities company in Ireland where your UK companies pay a % of their turnover so a large % of profits are at 12.5% instead of 19%; I know someone that was putting that in place when the rate was due to be increased to 25% (and if you're a global behemoth you'll be paying around 3% in Ireland).

I don't know many that are happy paying current tax or more (hence the aforementioned avoidance practices); if they were they'd donate tens of thousands extra to the treasury whereas every one to a man prefers to avoid some tax and donate to a charity.
Click to expand...

Everybody reduces their tax as much as possible.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.