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Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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Most of my friends are either living with their parents to save money, or spending most of their money on rent, bills and food just to say alive.
Sure occasionally they’ll go out and socialise, that’s normal and healthy - spending say 100-150 a month on going out shouldn’t be enough to stop you from buying a house that’s less than 2 grand a year.
You can’t expect people to not go out, or buy things, or have fun while they save for 10 years to buy a house. Depression will skyrocket.
This idea that baby boomers “worked hard and saved money” is so inaccurate, there are studies which show that millennials are working multiple jobs and longer hours just to earn extra cash.
http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/06/02/millennials-work-longer-hours-manpower-study_n_10230268.html
https://hbr.org/2016/08/millennials-are-actually-workaholics-according-to-research
Wages have increased but cost of living has substantially increased. Average wage increase you can expect is between 3-5% per year unless you change jobs.
Train tickets alone increase by 5-10% every year, food has sky rocketed, rent, bills, food and travel will take approximately 60% of the median income’s monthly salary.
It’s completely incomparable now.
I severely question the 1.7 of 1979 because that would mean I was supposed to be earning £13k pa in 1981 which I certainly wasn't anywhere near (maybe if you bought a house up north)
Do you know what the actual rate difference is between 1979 and now?
Warrington.
I would say the opposite is true, food is far cheaper in comparison than what it was, it was a more significant chunk of one's salary. We didn't travel much, we didn't have computers, phones etc , TV we used to rent weekly, no central heating, things that are taken for granted now were the height of luxury then or didn't exist and I didn't consider myself poor at least until the interest rates shot up, the worst letter you could expect was the one from the mortgage company saying the rate had gone up, sometimes you got four or five a year.
The salary just about paid the mortgage the food and the bills and that's it. When the rates shot up the salary wasn't enough.
The only thing I don't envy the young is the UK crashing out of the EU.
What?Every time I go out food shopping with my parents they talk about the price of food continually increasing, my dad is particularly anal and notices even when bottled water we buy increases by 13p, tins of chopped tomatoes in particular have doubled in price in the last 10 years alone, in fact a lot of the branded items they used to purchase they now opt for the supermarket equivalent because our food shop used to cost £45 a week, now costs £75 with less food and less branded items, plus one less person in the house. But you think prices have decreased? Madness.
Secondly, I don’t know many people who actually own things like washing machines, vacuums, actual furniture that wasn’t passed onto them from their parents.
You’re talking about computers which people buy once every 4 years - and even now most don’t buy regularly, plus computers are usually given by parents as a present. Phones cost what £40 a month on average? Less than 500 a year, that’s not breaking the bank.
Paying more on council tax, electricity, price of fuel. When I talk about travel I’m not talking about holidays, the study I posted earlier showed that millennials on average take less vacation days. But the cost of travel is stupidly expensive, my train ticket alone to commute to London is over £400 a month, plus fuel for my car, parking etc we’re talking over £500 a month.
If you envy the young then you are grossly misunderstanding the current situation.
Or you could read the two links I posted or the Executive Summary in the link @Silva posted.
Which is the situation for plenty of young people nowadays, except rather than a mortgage its rent to pay off some BTL landlords mortgage instead.
I will say that I think potentially brexit could be a real problem in this respect...
interest rates are at record lows but with inflationary pressure from a low pound and the real potential for that to lower further plus potentially the need for government and institutions to offer higher yields to attract the foreign investments then there is a real potential for interest rates to rise...
and a couple of % rise now days could see many peoples mortgage double which I doubt many have the capacity to cope with!... and even those with a fixed mortgage will see it come to an end at some point
Personally I''m lucky that I could cope with it but I think 90% of those I know in their 30's with a mortgage would be in serious trouble - especially the ones with kids - I pay more in childcare than mortgage (again somethinng that was less of an issue in the past possibly)
I also wonder how all this help to buy will shake out as after 5 years people will be due to start repaying that as well and surely the government isnt going to want to see lots of loans defaulted to them... its bad politics if nothing else
Live with your folks rent free (if thats possible) Ride a bike grow your hair and dont go out though and you could save up 5% (what you need for the government help to buy scheme) and you could save the 15K in less than a year
And thats assuming buying as one person - if there is 2 people then potentially you can save up even quicker... (and if its only for one person do you really need to save for a 2 bed house?)
it depends on circumstances but also priorities... I know somebody who spent 30k on a wedding... didnt save up enough took out a loan for the rest and now cant afford to save to get a deposit - hard to have sympathy for them... was a cracking wedding though
Every time I go out food shopping with my parents they talk about the price of food continually increasing, my dad is particularly anal and notices even when bottled water we buy increases by 13p, tins of chopped tomatoes in particular have doubled in price in the last 10 years alone, in fact a lot of the branded items they used to purchase they now opt for the supermarket equivalent because our food shop used to cost £45 a week, now costs £75 with less food and less branded items, plus one less person in the house. But you think prices have decreased? Madness.
Secondly, I don’t know many people who actually own things like washing machines, vacuums, actual furniture that wasn’t passed onto them from their parents.
You’re talking about computers which people buy once every 4 years - and even now most don’t buy regularly, plus computers are usually given by parents as a present. Phones cost what £40 a month on average? Less than 500 a year, that’s not breaking the bank.
Paying more on council tax, electricity, price of fuel. When I talk about travel I’m not talking about holidays, the study I posted earlier showed that millennials on average take less vacation days. But the cost of travel is stupidly expensive, my train ticket alone to commute to London is over £400 a month, plus fuel for my car, parking etc we’re talking over £500 a month.
If you envy the young then you are grossly misunderstanding the current situation.
Or you could read the two links I posted or the Executive Summary in the link @Silva posted.
I didn't say prices have decreased, I said that the proportion of one's salary spent on food is less than it used to be. When I first bought a house our food shopping represented 25% of my salary. I noted earlier that you said your monthly shopping bill is around £200 - if your earning under £800 a month then you may have a point.
What do you think the young people had when I was young, there was no money for anything else and I used to work in Central London commuting like you.
We had bills , council rates , train fares , petrol and so on just like you
I 'd love to take a few of you back in a time machine, you'd be horrified.
You don't think the youngsters of my time were saying the same as you are now.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-67358468.html
St. Helens, but still.
Absolutely this. People want a Costa every morning but complain they can't save a deposit.
Totally agree, it's why I said I don't envy the young if the UK crashes out of the EU.
so, a different, smaller, shittier town and a house which isn't actually a new build
Beggars can't be choosers.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-63959749.html
£80k in Warrington, just 8 years old. Bored of Rightmove now.
There's definitely something wrong with those figures going by personal experience.
If you took another snapshot in time 1987 is supposedly similar to 2013 in the wage/house price ratio.
Obviously the cause is what has to be dealt with which is the reduction of the number of houses being built and the large numbers of unoccupied properties. But even when houses were being built the prices were rocketing up.
I also knew people who got into real trouble when the market crashed in the late 80s.
"nice new build"
*links to not a newbuild next to a train track*
definitely a landlord
*links to not a newbuild next to a train track*
definitely a landlord
Well...they kind of need to be if their work/sector prompts them to move to a certain area of the country. St Helens is a reasonable size but I'd imagine opportunities there are fairly limited compared to most of the big cities. If you don't have a job that's relevant to you there, or don't have any ties to the place, it's not going to be particularly appealing or relevant when you're looking for a house.
I'd say this is a big part of the problem - there are plenty of areas with reasonably affordable housing (although it's still extortionate compared to inflation of wages) but the problem is that a lot of those areas are fairly limited for opportunity in a country where London is incredibly financially dominant and has by far the highest cost of living. It's all well and good to say 'beggars can't be choosers' but opting for that approach implies humans are emotionless beings with no ties whatsoever who don't need to take into account a myriad of factors when looking to buy a property.
My situation isn’t comparable to the one I quoted, that was just an example.
Plus I don’t know the full specifics, but pretty much everyone I know has said the help to buy scheme is useless and long term can cause real problems when you’re due to sell your house.
I don’t know enough about it to comment, but I get the impression that it’s not a viable solution for a lot of people, I’m certainly not at all interested in it and it’s never been recommended by my financial advisors.
The proportion is about the same if not more - again I spend £200 on food because I live with my parents and don’t need to worry about the food shop, if I lived on my own then I’d probably spend double that including things like washing up liquid, bathroom cleaner, detergent etc. not just food but the amount I spend on food and other things to go in the house would easily double.
Eggs, milk, bread, juice, cereal, chicken, bacon, potatoes, rice, vegetables, fruit, water, fish, pasta, condiments & sauces would easily set you back at least £40-45 and that’s a pretty basic shop which doesn’t account for all meals you’ll have every day, nor things like toothpaste and the others.
Again, I don’t pay rent, but average cost of rent, council tax and bills in London is about £1k plus your £3-400 for food, about £150-£200 for oyster & travel, suddenly you’re left with about £250.
Assuming you’re not in any kind of difficulty that requires emergency funds, nor you don’t go out and socialise with your friends or buy birthday and Christmas presents etc, and you never go on vacation - you can save about £2,000 a year.
We truly are the ones to be envied.
I'm from Manchester. I work in Manchester. Other half is from Manchester. She works in Manchester.
We live in St. Helens as it was a great deal on a property and allowed us to get on the ladder, after a year living with parents to save a deposit. Maybe I'm being sadistic thinking it shouldn't be easy to get a mansion without sacrifices, i.e. living in a shit area, in a run down house for a few years to establish yourself.
"Shit location"
*links to correctly priced abode in correct area*
"not new build"
Definitely a self-entitled moaner. Or a shit tenant.
Also a 7 year old flat is hardly ancient, sorry if you need to be the first owner of the place for your expectations to be met.
@Silva
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-48986181.html
There's a new build in Warrington for £80k. Stop moaning.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-48986181.html
There's a new build in Warrington for £80k. Stop moaning.
Take what you’re given, even if it is not at all suitable to you or your long term prospects - this is the climate we’re in.
And if you have any questions or reservations then you’re entitled/spoiled/whiny etc
And if you have any questions or reservations then you’re entitled/spoiled/whiny etc
I'm not saying you should be envied and quite understand that getting on the housing ladder is difficult, as it was in my day, just the difficulties getting on it were different, it wasn't easy by any stretch of the imagination and risked an awful lot doing it. There was no help to buy or family credit or anything like that. Didn't even have a credit card until into the 80s. The only safety net was moving back with parents if it had got too bad and I married young and had a baby daughter when I bought the first flat.
Oh, we back to location now? It’s a 20 minutes bus journey away, what’s he issue? Or do you require a prime located Town Centre pad?
I would appreciate it if predatory landlords like yourself, who drive up house prices and rent, didn't try to lecture us using misleading information.
No one's talking about necessarily getting a mansion - just a reasonably affordable property in a decent area. St. Helens is fairly sizable and near to Liverpool/Manchester geographically so certainly isn't the worst option, but again - there's plenty of fairly middle-sized towns throughout the UK where property is mildly affordable but not all too advantageous unless you want extended commuting or are lucky enough to not have to work in a city. And those properties are generally going to be few and far between as well - you've linked us to some which is fair enough but a select number of properties is hardly proportionate to the number of people struggling to become homeowners earning a similar wage to their parents who were able to get on the property ladder with relative ease in comparison - which, again, is the crux of the issue here.
@Silva is killing it in this thread
Haha, mate I’ve been a homeowner for less than 12 months, who moved to a shitty wasteland 40 miles from my friends and family to get on the ladder.
I’m lecturing no one, literally if I’d have said in my original post “2 bedroom new build in Warrington +5 miles”, you’d have feck all to come back with.
haha, we're having so much fun, the system totally isn't broken
Beautiful pivot.
Wait, you had to sacrifice your familial and social circles, move to a shitty wasteland miles away from where you want to be in order to afford a home and you reckon that's a great example of a working system?
Well, yeah. I don’t think everyones first choice of everything should be on a plate? Two or three years here and we can look at moving to somewhere nicer.
There's on a plate, there's having to sacrifice friends and family to move to a shithole 40 miles away and there's lots of scenarios in between the two.
People's definition of 'normal' when it comes to spending differs from person to person. My wife & I never went out for nearly 12 months when we were saving up for a deposit. OK it was only 5% back then, but if it was 10% & meant staying in for 2 years we'd have done it. We also worked overtime at every opportunity too. I never had a car until I was 24 for the simple fact I couldn't afford one. A lot of today's younger generation see a car as a birthright. My 20 year old niece bought a brand new car on finance despite the fact that her & her partner are currently living with my brother & sister-in-law while they save for a deposit. She doesn't need the car for work or anything, she just wanted it, & she got it. On top of that they still go out every weekend clubbing it with friends. I don't know if her parents are taking any money off them but this is just one example of young people maybe not having their priorities quite right. I could give you more examples relating to my son, but mostly my Daughter, of how frivolous & blase they've been when it comes to spending money. I've been in a good position to judge both the boomers & the millenials, & I can honestly say that today's younger generation are absolutely shit at being prudent.
The climate has always been the same. You look for a house that's suitable for your needs, location, price-range etc. If there's nothing available, you wait, & look again in the near future. Depending on your circumstances, along with your patience, the opportunity is always there to compromise on your needs, location, price-range etc. It has nothing to do with 'taking what you're given'. You only come across as entitled/spoiled/whiny when you can't have everything your own way.
Most people are having to save for much, much longer than that, unless they're already well-off. It's all well and good to say you'd have just done it for longer but for a people of people it's probably not worth it, especially in a culture where jobs aren't really secure, meaning you could get asked/forced to move to a new area where property is even more expensive, fecking up your plans. And that's before taking into consideration the fact that someone who plans to save up with a partner may not still be with that partner by the time they're ready to put down a deposit, considering how long people are being expected to save for. In most cases it's just much easier to rent, hence why the average age for people owning a property is going up and up.
Ha, if I'd have that attitude & not been so generous with my money to other family members, & a few friends, I'd have saved enough money for a deposit for a BTL & could have made a fortune as a landlord renting out my property. That way you might have been justified in vilifying me rather than trying to pin a guilt trip based on the fact I was born in era of social deprivation, high unemployment, & a fair amount of poverty. Yeah we Baby-boomers really had it good.