I don’t know who it is but I’m guessing Boris will be the lesser of two evils judging by that Tory WhatsApp group…any enemy of Steve Baker et al is okay by me…
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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Cummings will be involved.
Keir Starmer would have probably had it all destroyed in the name of fair play. He's the least likely culprit. My guess is Hancock's revenge ploy after being thrown to the wolves.
Ah this is one of my favourites.
"Labour have stopped caring about the working people!!"
"But didn't Corbyn run on helping working people?"
"He promised too many things, he must have been crazy!!"
That photo was taken from the flat roof right outside Sunak's office, who funnily enough recently returned from a trip to the US where he met with healthcare firms.
Why doesn't someone just check the metadata? Extract the sub-particle hublets and render the floobididoos?!
Pretty sure it’s also Rishi Sunak tactically positioned under that arrow.
I'm not too sure. Whoever is in that chair hasn't got a booster seat.
The Labour manifesto under Corbyn was specifically to help the working "man".
Strange that you would choose to call them the raving loony party with that manifesto, yet you voted for Boris.
Classic. You may have been hoodwinked.
Downing Street garden photo shows people working, says Boris Johnson
Of course they had a choice, Blair went round banging the drum for war, so much so that he surprised even the Americans with his attitude. It was he and his intelligence agency that dreamt up the infamous Dodgy Dossier as well of course.
Same attitude as Cameron in Libya really. I get to play soldier / messiah, give out a bunch of arms contracts, and it's only a load of brown people who suffer so who cares.
That's certainly a valid opinion. One I disagree on, but am unlikely to change your mind on.
My opinion is the structural position was that, once Bush went to war, Blair had little choice but to follow. (That's not to absolve him from blame, but certainly to somewhat explain the decision)
It's interesting that Corbyn lost so heavily upon the notion he was 'untrustworthy' (whatever people say, it was the major factor) - yet labour were utterly unable or unwilling to portray Boris as more so.
Another advantage that the Tories have, alongside their additional funds, the majority of the print media supporting them etc. is the fact that they are typically willing to fight 'dirtier' and 'nastier' at elections than Labour. That's not to say that Labour are innocent angels or anything, far from it, but the Tories clearly are far more ruthless.
They really fought a nasty, vicious campaign in 2015 for example orchestrated by Lynton Crosby, making a lot of personal attacks against Ed Miliband, and their whole campaign was a negative one, basically saying 'vote for Ed Miliband and you'll get Alex Salmond'. Admittedly it worked, although sadly for those of us supporting remain a year later, that win made Cameron even more arrogant than he already was, and made him think that he was an unbeatable, genius in political contests.
They really fought a nasty, vicious campaign in 2015 for example orchestrated by Lynton Crosby, making a lot of personal attacks against Ed Miliband, and their whole campaign was a negative one, basically saying 'vote for Ed Miliband and you'll get Alex Salmond'. Admittedly it worked, although sadly for those of us supporting remain a year later, that win made Cameron even more arrogant than he already was, and made him think that he was an unbeatable, genius in political contests.
Blair made the choice to be Bush's loyal poodle. You can argue whether the bloodthirsty loon thought he was doing the Lord's work (like the Crusaders?), but the fact is nobody can force you to go to war unless they attack you directly, it's always your choice as PM. And he knew it would be an illegal war which was why he firstly tried to get UN support which was rightly rejected, and then authored the preface to the Dodgy Dossier which gave him an "imminent threat" to respond to. There was also no formal Declaration of War of course, I don't know whether that gave him some legal protection as well perhaps.
What favours he and/or Britain received in exchange for supporting the Iraq war I don't know - I assume they'd be largely money and oil related - but it's undeniable that he chose the relationship with the US over morality and legality, whatever he convinced himself of at the time and afterwards.
I do know numerous people who voted for the Tories in Hyndburn in 2019 to 'get Brexit done' (Labour never had a prayer of competing against that effective slogan in an election heavily centred about Brexit), who are bitterly regretting that decision.
Reality hit home when they realised that they were lumbered with a completely out of touch Tory MP who couldn't care less about them, doesn't care about the fact that the area is one of the most deprived in England, can't be bothered to respond to letters / emails from her constituents (and who deletes critical but not abusive comments on her social media pages), can't be bothered to represent them in key economic support package debates, and has generally voted to make life more difficult for her own constituents including putting many more jobs at risk in the area.
That being said, I always thought (a gut feeling without any supporting data to back that up) that there was a growing number of people in the country who supported 'left-wing' domestic policies, but were also socially conservative (i.e. supporting Brexit, less immigration, less internationalism, more patriotism etc.), so increasingly difficult for Labour to square the circle there.
Reality hit home when they realised that they were lumbered with a completely out of touch Tory MP who couldn't care less about them, doesn't care about the fact that the area is one of the most deprived in England, can't be bothered to respond to letters / emails from her constituents (and who deletes critical but not abusive comments on her social media pages), can't be bothered to represent them in key economic support package debates, and has generally voted to make life more difficult for her own constituents including putting many more jobs at risk in the area.
That being said, I always thought (a gut feeling without any supporting data to back that up) that there was a growing number of people in the country who supported 'left-wing' domestic policies, but were also socially conservative (i.e. supporting Brexit, less immigration, less internationalism, more patriotism etc.), so increasingly difficult for Labour to square the circle there.
This is definitely true in the Netherlands. People voting against their own (economic) interests because of immigration issues.
Similar thing in Blackpool South. The MP os billing himself as the hardest working back bencher in Lancashire due to his attendance at debates in the HoC. What you find when you dig deeper is that he attends a lot of debates on motions supporting Israel and the DUP. He has achieved some blue wall funding and is very visible in the town but his voting record shows that he doesn't really care about the fact he represents one of the most deprived areas in the country.
This is the same Gordon who sold off our gold reserves?
Unfortunately over decades of being the 'naysayer in chief', opposing everything (even what his own side came up with), openly supporting the countries enemies, Corbyn's political career had made him totally unsuitable and hence unable as leader of the Labour party, to help the working populace... because he could not/would not, ever get elected as PM... and I suspect even he knew it!
Labour use to care (maybe some still did) but the Party had not delivered for working people, when in power, for decades; ever since the post war Labour Government, no Labour government has lived up to that standard set in the post war years.... talk about standing on the shoulders of 'giants'; apart from a handful of Labour politicians, the rest either 'fell off the shoulders of giants' or couldn't find a ladder long enough to climb aboard.
No he didn't, you might argue he never run at all, he tried to 'fence sit' on almost everything that was capturing the attention of the public.
Yes Labour did, but he wasn't crazy, just deluded.
Oh give me a break, you had a genuine socialist running on a socialist platform and you didn't vote for him because you've been blinded by decades of capitalists telling you that socialist policies are fantasy-land. Just don't try and pretend that you actually want these things, if you're not actually going to vote for people who offer them to you.
Tony Blair wrote to George W Bush eight months before the Iraq invasion to offer his unqualified backing for war well before UN weapons inspectors had completed their work, saying: “I will be with you, whatever.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ever-tony-blair-letters-george-w-bush-chilcot
The painting of Blair as being dragged in to something he didn't want to is completely wrong imo, Bush was clueless about foreign politics and asked Blair to help guide him on that front, Blair was keen for the US/UK to start 'influencing' global politics again and was very keen from the start to go and kill Sadam.
One thing offering these policies, another having the capacity to deliver/understand how markets/corporations work from anything other than a hyper critical stance.
I think this is what put people off Corbyn and made his economic stances appear all but fanciful and high-minded. They just didn't fit in a modern, globalized economy.
You came into to this halfway!
In my lifetime I have observed from close quarters (a member of the Labour party and TU shop Steward) many so called 'genuine socialists' who did nothing but spout rhetoric and snipe from behind cover, they have done nothing for the working man and never can until they understand, above all the aspiration element in the politics of the working population.
I have been blinded for decades by a Labour party that has now reached a point where it cannot tell its a**e from its elbow.
And you didn't have decades of seeing what Tories do when in power?
I'm not really sure how £6k will make any difference to these businesses? Also doesn't seem anything for self-employed people.
Statutory Sick Pay is a joke in this country. It’s one of the things that really should have been dealt with at the beginning of the pandemic.
If you're saying that was a bad decision you're right, although it was understandable at the time after a 20 year bear run, and the G7 all said they would do the same, 'to diversify' I believe.
If you're jumping from that to saying Brown was a poor chancellor you're wrong, he didn't set a record ten years for nothing.
Ditto. It seems a strange stance that Matic has.
He wasn't elected on that manifesto because the media convinced people, with opinions similar to your won, to vote against their own interests in favour of the ruling classes.
To then claim you just want someone to look out for the "working man" is strange.
I thought he stayed in the job that long as part of his deal with Blair that he would take over as PM?
Bad decision it certainly was and in any other Government he would have had to go, but the Anglo-Scots pact was in play, so he stayed
You are still trying to make out Corbyn was electable as PM... its incredible, I see nothing has change if that represents the Labour outlook!
He went on to become PM after being chancellor, quite a sign of success I'd have thought, and more than any of the manyTory chancellors have over decades of power, they've all ended as failures, not stood up.
Your original point was 'I will never vote Labour because I genuinely believe they couldn't organise a 'p***-up in the proverbial Brewery!', all I'm saying is that you have a short memory.
Yes he did become PM and he didn't exactly make a success of that did he?
I'm pointing out that Gordon Brown didn't 'walk on water', he stayed in his job so long because of the 'old pals' act/agreement that was necessary to keep Blair in power and to ensure Brown followed him.... but in any case he's no longer part of the Labour frontbench.
Speaking of which, I might give Lisa Nandy a job, but after her I wouldn't employ any of them... I don't think the red wall voters will either.
Bloody hell what’s happening in here?
We’ve got a mental health, NHS and housing crisis. A government of sleezes who think they’re above the law. A society which is more divided in opinion and wealth than we’ve had for a century and the country in a record amount of debt.
And there are still boys in here defending the Tory’s based on stuff 20 years ago.
Do they still use the lines about labour apparently not being trustworthy with money and how they will run the country into debt? Or is that line now redundant given the current situation of the economy?
We’ve got a mental health, NHS and housing crisis. A government of sleezes who think they’re above the law. A society which is more divided in opinion and wealth than we’ve had for a century and the country in a record amount of debt.
And there are still boys in here defending the Tory’s based on stuff 20 years ago.
Do they still use the lines about labour apparently not being trustworthy with money and how they will run the country into debt? Or is that line now redundant given the current situation of the economy?
Unfortunately people would rather be proven right about the Tories being irresponsible twats than be proven wrong about Labour being any less than perfect.
Very interesting, thanks. Doesn't seem quite as bad as all the sleaze and outright cronyism going around today though, if only the elections were next year!
Bloody Corbyn.