Agree with this
Westminster Politics
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Agree with this
In which case it might be better not to look at Football Fan Forums if you're expecting a cerebral response from people who don't share your opinion.
There's probably a Millwall Fan Forum somewhere which is the polar opposite of Redcafe when they're discussing politics and where you'd get a five point warning for saying Starmer has a nice haircut.
Your message needs to be broadcast loud and clear on here, some are still living in Noddy land!
Will she be resigning?
Starmer probably knows if he complains about everything it'll become tedious. When he does finally complain about something you can bet it'll be something that's a big deal.
For all her faults, you could see May shrinking right before our eyes with each failure. She at least had the self awareness to realise she was failing. There is no sign of that with Johnson and his minions, which makes me think they really think they are doing fantastically. We are basically living through the experiment of how much damage can a truly incompetent administration do to the UK, and I fear we will see much more damage.
How could you seriously think that was real?
I look at climate change and wonder what those on the right can possibly be arguing against.
I look at growing inequality in this country, the lack of empathy to those in war-torn or food deprived countries, the ongoing(failed) war on drugs, the criminalisation of addicts and the simultaneous cutting of services that help them, blaming of immigrants whilst cutting services to aid integration and affected communities, the ostracising of those with physical and mental disabilities, the lack of focus upon critical thinking skills taught in schools, the privatisation of the NHS/schools/prisons/mail, Grenfell, Jo Cox, cutting of legal aid, tuition fees, executive pay, off-shore accounting and tax avoidance etc etc.
The conservative party has, at the very least, exacerbated all of these problems. I see the left as being on the correct side of nearly every argument you can have with regards to public policy. While Teresa May stands on the steps of downing street talking about the 'jams', no one believed her, did they? They knew that, at most, we'd see some slight tinkering at the edges. Some massaging of figures and we'd all carry on as normal. Just as their party donors demand.
Public opinion indicates strong support for many of the arguments from the left. The tories got 43.6% of the vote share. Apart from maybe the brexit party on 2%, everyone else can be considered to the left of their them, so... a majority, if you like. Like May and Cameron before, Boris used the 'moving to the centre' lie to stop people who would probably fit better with lib dem policies should the tories be brave(stupid) enough to advertise their true intentions. The consensus IS there to be found, but the lies are pretty much entirely coming from the side who lost the argument, but managed to win the rigged war, once again.
So what do you do if you're on the left? Bend to the centre, I hear many say. But in practice, that means that when the Labour party next get into power, they are only able to make the smallest of changes or the cries of MARXIST! get so loud that it becomes paralysing. Without radical change, any small changes made will be dwarfed by the chunks taken out of our society the next time the conservatives get in, and Labour will once again have 'abandonded the working classes'.
So consensus would be great. But until we have a press that is prepared to consistantly challenge the lies, the liars will profit. While I don't want to stop any criticism of the left, or Labour in particular. It's important to remember that the peddlers of 'trickle-down' economics and austerity were wrong, if they ever actually believed it in the first place. And that, without their self-professed 'best for the economy' tag, they fail miserably at nearly everything apart from making the richest even richer. So when making sweeping statements about how incompetent the left apparently is, or they only care about identity politics, or whatever the right wing attack narrative of the day is, remember who is slowly eroding this country right now.
Excellent post.
From Blair to Brown to Miliband Labour had been atrophying in seats throughout the north and the midlands. It's such a laughable and simplistic idea to say that Labour's problem under Corbyn was not being 'centrist' enough. It has very little grounding in reality and is not substantiated by even a cursory analysis of election results this century. If 'centrism' is what we need, why did the process of Labour's decline begin under Blair and only see a partial but brief respite in 2017 under the most left-wing candidate? Why have the Lib Dems failed to benefit and why did Change UK disappear from the scene as quickly as it entered? Why did the Tories fare so well in these seats that you suggest were crying out for 'centrism' after Johnson came in with his flagship policy of a hard-Brexit (by no stretch of the imagination a 'centrist' policy) and purged the party of stalwart moderates like Ken Clarke?
The reality is the bond between class and political identity has largely disappeared, with Labour, the party of the working-class, naturally the big losers in this process. Addressing why that process which predates Corbyn happened and what can be done to reconnect with these voters is essential. Can we drop these lazy, boring and ahistorical narratives because they are wrong and do nothing to answer the question of how Labour can get back to winning elections under Starmer.
Exactly. Spot on.
The UK media is very right leaning in comparison with other European countries. Funny how Corbyn was painted a a "Russian commie". Yet we have Boris and co. not releasing the Russian report, having parties with Russian billionaires while his dodgy advisor Cummings spent 3-4yrs living in Russia in the 90s.
Re - the attitude and bullying of the CE forum.
My opinion is that people having been acting a bit precious recently. I kind of think calling someone a feckwit (and being called a feckwit) the odd time should be standard practice. The odd heated debate wouldn't hurt imo.
My opinion is that people having been acting a bit precious recently. I kind of think calling someone a feckwit (and being called a feckwit) the odd time should be standard practice. The odd heated debate wouldn't hurt imo.
I was talking about her comments on Newsnight, right or wrong they were certainly not impartial... pot... kettle.... black comes to mind!
@BobbyManc @arnie_ni the Newsnight drama is actually a pretty apt example of the point I was trying to make yesterday about headlines, I think.
Calling someone a feckwit (in response to being called an idiot I might add) gets you 2 infraction points and a thread ban these days.
Worrying times.
Because it fits into his personal outlook on the world. People actively look for things that reinforce their views rather than challenge them, which is why there's so many dumb motherfeckers around right now.
Yep, and it’ll likely carry more impact.
What she said was correct though, she was summing up the mood of a huge chunk of the nation. It was the lead story. Does she have to dig up something bad about labour straight after just to be impartial?
There’s a lot wrong with this analysis. I have to put the kids to bed, so some very quick fire responses and I will try and come back later on today:
- Decline beginning under Blair - various circumstances at play, including negative PR from Iraq / WMD, plus the likely impact of fatigue amongst the electorate after a reasonably long spell of New Labour government
- Partial but brief respite in 2017? Corbyn was very good at mobilising support across a certain cross section of society, but guess what – he still fecking lost! And against one of the weakest Tory leaders ever
- A lot of people voted Tory at the last election with a heavy heart because they felt it was the least worst option. You can get your knickers in a twist all you like, but Corbyn was not considered viable by a big enough proportion of the population – he got an absolute hammering
- You are very good at branding my view as lazy. But you haven’t actually communicated how you think Starmer can win an election. Come on, let’s have it...
If you take impartial to always mean both sides views are represented as equally worthy then sure. But then her interview with Andrew wasn't impartial either or general reporting about a myriad of issues.
The idea that every other Newsnight story is represented as all parties being equal irrespective of fact would lead to some terrible reporting.
Yes, that is what a national impartial broadcaster should do, people can make up their own minds about what might be right or wrong; however once a report becomes 'slanted' by the personal views of the reporter it is no longer impartial.
Newsnight by its nature is meant to be an impartial news broadcast presenting the days events as they occurred, at least that's what it started off as, unfortunately it now has become a vehicle for self-styled 'celebrity' reporters to display their personal views and prejudices and to make a name for themselves. Instead of reporting news, they now see it as part of their role to make the news.
So there's no story that should be reported without equal favour to both sides? Not sure you've thought this through to be honest
Also Newsnight isn't News at 10, do you not see a difference?
You said there’s a lot wrong with what I said but have not made a single valid point of substance that contradicts what I said. Until then there’s not much point continuing the conversation.
Make the Caf Great Again.
In terms of how Starmer/Labour can do better, first of all as an opposition party they have to accept that they can win only by playIng by the existing rules of the game. They can moan all they like about the bias media (particularly the big newspapers) but they can’t change that fact - all they can do is offer less of an obvious target than was presented by Corbyn and cranks like Milne.
Related to the first point, they need to kill any suggestion or perception that the Labour party is lacking in patriotic feeling. The Tories have known how to exploit working class patriotism since Disraeli. Labour need to fight back hard on this point and, in this age of populism, it is more important than ever. Invoke the spirit of Ernest Bevin about having a bomb with a bloody big union jack on the side. It may cause some of their metropolitan voters to hold their nose occasionally but, with the Remain cause lost, it no longer involves squaring a circle.
By taking account of the above (and I believe Starmer and his team can avoid those obvious pitfalls), I believe they can win votes by campaigning on a properly planned and costed left wing position. The Tory press would still attack Starmer as an Islington luvvie Marxist but the attacks would carry less bite without the Corbyn baggage and provided policy is sensibly developed rather than thrown out on the hoof during an election campaign.
Having said all that, the ceiling in 2024 or 2029 is a coalition government. With Scotland lost to the SNP, I can’t see Labour winning a majority in England and Wales.
Before the advent of the 24/7 news cycle that is exactly what happened, it was pure news, no commentary/opinion-pieces by people who weren't there. Personally I just want the news, not somebodies opinion, I can form my own!
Both should still be impartial. Newsnight was always different in that in went into more detail than could be given in the News headlines, but it was still impartial in the way it was presented, we never heard a presenter giving their personal opinion, or implying if someone was telling the truth or lying.
Even the news headlines sometimes give a slant which shouldn't be there. Now I'm retired I can watch the lunchtime, evening and late night news and quite often in lead stories there has been some editing to try to make it appear more balanced, but not with Newsnight which is now just a show case for the presenters.
This poll gives a hung parliament (323 seats) and this is just before the Dominic Cummings scandal.
I remember polling figures like that getting the "Any other leader would be 20 points ahead." treatment. How times change.
How very interesting.
It is quite important that those of us who were and still are appalled by both Cummings unacceptable actions and Boris Johnson for the despicable way he handled the whole thing don't just forget about it.
Johnson is probably delighted that believes he and Cummings got away with it.
But we must have long memories.
Depends how you define 'got away with it'. I cant see how Cummings retains the psychological authority he used on MPs and civil servants to implement his agenda. His power is surely diminished and so many very powerful people are now also out to get him.
'Let them eat sport.'
He's pissed off a lot of people on the way up, he should expect a bit of a kicking on his way back down.
But but Corbyn.
Oh my god, I thought this was just a SteveJ joke. He actually said that. These people are so bad at pretending to be human.
Yea i get you about impartiality when reporting.
But then take piers Morgan, he opines on everything and is never impartial.
How come some journalists have to be impartial and others dont? Is there different roles witin journalism or how does it work? Where does the line be drawn?
Ive never passed any remarks on any of this until you highlighted it for me and I found myself agreeing with you.