So it could be a referendum on a variety of exits?
Common mkt 2.0
Mays deal
Boris’ made up deal
No deal
Etc
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
So it could be a referendum on a variety of exits?
Common mkt 2.0
Mays deal
Boris’ made up deal
No deal
Etc
But they promise to go through with it this time? Really really pinky promise?
Do not believe a single word they say...
https://www.thejournal.ie/nigel-farage-no-deal-bbc-fact-check-4632847-May2019/?amp=1
Yes.
There are definitely a few yeah but not many. Most are just trying to employ common sense and ensure we don’t crash out with no deal.
Yeah right now would be a great time for some maturity and compromise. Unfortunately the current PM and his party have decided to do the opposite. Act like petulant children, spout divisive rhetoric, stir up animosity and try to bypass parliament and force through a no deal which no one voted for.
We should leave the EU and respect the referendum result but in the least damaging and disruptive way.
Yes I assume the purpose of any 2nd referendum would be to break the current deadlock and once and for all get a definitive answer on how and when we should leave the EU.
Eurgh. Cummings just looks like a smarmy cnut.
I would accept that. I would like parliament to somehow narrow it down as I’m concerned all the votes will be split and no deal would walk it. A couple of the soft brexit proposals weren’t too many votes away last time out
I disapprove of what Boris said, but we should all defend to the death his right to say it.
Nah I’m fine with not defending populist wankers who are contributing to inciting violence thanks.
Got a link? Can’t find it anywhere.
Then God help us all.
Or some higher power that probably doesn't exist.
I think it depends on the question you ask. If all options are on the table and it's asked in a non-cynically fashion I think most would be comfortable.
The problem with that is it would need around 10 options on a preference vote system that simply wouldn't happen.
Where would an interested person see it?
Do you think the Westboro Baptist Church should be protected by free speech? Genuinely curious, because free speech has never been an absolute right anywhere, it’s purely about where you draw the line. Personally I’m fine with drawing that line comfortably ahead of a place where you can put other people’s livea at risk for political gain.
Why 10? Leave without a deal, leave with whatever deal has been negotiated or remain seems to cover all options that are actually possible at this point. Obviously with the leave options as a second question so you don’t split the leave vote.
And these comments are all much better than Boris’s language
And Kentonio, there are populist wankers on both sides of the Brexit debate, it’s just that both sides are so blinkered they don’t see it.
So what's your line then? A lot of us find our line crossed by what we see as him recklessly whipping up the far right 'traitor' narrative that has already killed one MP.
I spoke to someone a few days ago who told me 'Jo Cox got what she deserved and you will too'. I expect you'd think that's too far but there's a good gap between those two that includes many things that I don't know how inclined to defend to the death you'd be.
This is the dumb thing about Brexit. There being multiple mutually exclusive ways of doing it, that can't be decided upon between them, is seen as a factor in its favour. (Not aimed at you, just at this general point that's raised about any referendum.)
People that insist that "it was already voted on in 2016!" should be able to pick a version and put it up against the opposing option of remaining. This isn't a fix or a cop out, it's just the reality that remain is straightforward to execute, and shouldn't be disadvantaged by the fact that leaving means something different to each of the various groups of leavers.
And these comments are all much better than Boris’s language
I'm not the Prime Minister.
Hope this helps
There are a number of reasons why I now support a second referendum.
1. There is and has been deadlock since the previous vote. Because of the stupid way it was handled it told the government we voted to leave but not what kind of Brexit. Now, we all know so much more about the options we can vote on what kind of Brexit, or maybe not.
2. Leaving the EU is going to have a bigger affect on the younger generation because they will have much longer to endure, or maybe enjoy the consequences. So some of those who were too young then will be eligible now.
3. It is obvious that the government are completely swamped with the shear scope of the problem and they need our help to resolve it one way or the other. And I believe that the country needs to come together and only this can give us some form of harmony.
So, Brexit, soft or hard vs Remain ... hasn’t that been done somewhere before?
And these comments are all much better than Boris’s language
And Kentonio, there are populist wankers on both sides of the Brexit debate, it’s just that both sides are so blinkered they don’t see it.
This is not the House of Commons and the posters on here are not MP’s. Boris can say what he wants in private, but when he’s in the House of Commons, or in any other public situation, he should act responsibly.
Assuming the various possibilities are actually realistic and would be acceptable to the EU - only one of which thus far being the actual Withdrawal Agreement currently on the table.
The atmosphere is similar!
No wonder I stay out of this usually
I’ve had a really quiet day so have got mixed up with this. I’ve kept my responses respectful but not all replies have been afforded the same.
I’ll head back over to the more amiable bunch calling for Ole to be sacked
Maybe you’re not but comments like the above still display insights into the characters behind the posts.
Nope.
Wasn’t that the basis of the referendum in 2016? Brexit (whatever the version) vs remain?
Has a CoS been so political before? I swear it used to be a job no one knew your name?
Yes I do and yes they're abhorrent. However the common sense of the populace is far better placed to determine this than a moralistic cult (or "government"). Provided rhetoric doesn't directly harm or directly incite harm it should be protected.
I think if the goal is to bring the country together, as it has to be we have to have all sides agree on the options, and have a choice based approach.
Therefore maybe we should have a cross party government literally discuss all options with the EU? A Norway deal. A Canada deal. A Switzerland deal. Remain on the basis that the UK is not a net contributor. Remain with a position we veto further integration (maybe the EU wouldn't want us to remain under these circumstances). Remaining with a commitment to greater integration.
How about honestly also from the EU in terms of where they're headed? Honesty that the populace can hold them to account at a later date? You aren't considering a centralised taxation policy (one of my big fears), put it in writing. Likewise a central army, likewise enforcement of the Euro, likewise further membership.
I don't believe giving people informed choice can ever be a bar thing and at least if there were more than half a dozen options or wouldn't be so divisive. Farage might be "no deal" but his clan would be eviscerated if a Canada deal were in the table.
If we believe the leave campaign were deceitful, that's absolutely fair. However the EU have been deceitful in their power grab over the last few decades and likewise remain were deceitful in acting like Britain can fully direct the direction in which the EU has been going, a direction that the referendum shows was against UK public opinion.
Oh and another thing: given that every single supposed economic, societal and judicial benefit of BrExit has been thoroughly debunked, I’m left with the conclusion that the only reason for people to still want it is to satisfy their inherent and deep racist views.
Else please tell me what else you get?
I can’t wait to see how the Leave campaign will look this time around. It’s going to be a complete car crash.
He’s one of the more moderate and well behaved posters on here, me on the other hand..
Good post dude!
If there had been a well informed public on the original European referendum in 1975, when they were convinced it was simply a free trading agreement we wouldn’t even be in the EU in the first place.
All other treaties, ceding yet more power to the EU were done without a mandate or referendum. Gordon Brown spent ages denying the true weight of the Lisbon Treaty ... then signed it.
If politicians on both the Tory Party and Labour since 1975 had been honest about Europe we wouldn’t even be having this debate. We wouldn’t have entered a more centralised Europe in a million years!
Why has the European issue got anything to do with race? This is such a ridiculous and lazy thing to assume. Even the issue of immigration, which was admittedly crassly used by UKIP, isn’t solely based around issues of racism believe it or not.
The EU actually consist of 27 independent member states, it’s not some kind of sinister evil organization trying to pull a quick one over the UK. One of the big problems the UK had is the complete ignorance about the EU amongst its population, as is proven by your post. It’s also ironic that known & proven dishonest liars like Farrage & Boris accuse the EU of being dishonest. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
From a Dutch perspective I can assure there is currently zilch public support for, ie, a centralized taxation policy and if it were to be put on the table then the Dutch public will demand to leave the EU. That’s the reality.
I’m not saying the EU is perfect, but if you are going to criticize the EU at least use facts rather than made up scaremongering.
So I’m waiting for you to explain what the benefit of BrExit is beyond satisfying xenophobes. Go on, tell me.
What has not wanting to be a part of a centralised Europe heading full speed into complete political and fiscal unification and being under the jurisdiction of the ECJ got to do with satisfying xenophobic beliefs? Some people just want independence, is that not ok? Has it got to be because of racism and xenophobia?
And you’re also assuming I’m a brexiteer too.
Rather than claiming assumption. Why don't you state whether you are a brexiteer or not. Otherwise it's a pointless sentence.
The EU is not heading full speed ahead into complete political & fiscal unity because there simply isn’t enough public support for that amongst the vast majority of the member states. In fact if anything, especially since the UK referendum, such ideas have been shelved for the time being at least because of the concern more countries might follow the UK’s direction. If you are going to be anti EU then at least do so for the right reasons, such as because of the EU’s bloated bureaucracy or neo-liberal policies.
Also @unchanged_lineup sorry it was on our regional news in the North West so I'm unsure how you'd be able to watch it outside of this region.
There's small clips on the BBC site, but i don't think it shows the moment she brought up him lying about there being no media in the hospital and the £350m to the NHS on the side of the bus lies.
If I find it i'll link it on here.