Westminster Politics

Why are you defending the indefensible then???? What happened yesterday in the House of Commons was unacceptable and anyone condoning yesterday’s behavior needs to have a long look in the mirror and ask themselves in what kind of society they want to live in!

I'm not defending anyone specifically and not denying inflammatory language has been used, all I'm saying is that I have seen and heard inflammatory language and behaviour on BOTH sides of the house. I found the behaviour of the government and the opposition benches unacceptable, as I have for the last 3 years. They are all a self serving rabble in my opinion that need sweeping out of Westminster. Extreme right capitalists on one side and Extreme left socialists on the other all shouting each other down with snide and unprofessional narrative.

And that's it, each side has its own narrative and that is what is driving this situation like the centre of the suns core. Constant fission. There should be proper cross party talks to get through this and it should be done in a professional and dignified way to put an end to this.

I've said before, the world can watch our parliament and I am deeply ashamed of both sides.
 
Sometimes i like to play a game of "if this person lived in X" what would they do or be involved in.
 
BJ's sister also taking issue (along with younger brother before). Don't hear her criticising 'both sides' either.

When asked who's behind her brother's behaviour: "It could be Cummings advising the PM to be extremely aggressive...it could be people who have invested billions in shorting the £ in the expectation of a no-deal Brexit."

I don't need to add any personal commentary.
 
Wow.

"Dominic Cummings, was shortly afterwards confronted on the parliamentary estate by the Labour MP Karl Turner, who said MPs including himself had received more death threats. Cummings responded: “Well, vote for a deal then.”"
He's making it sound like blackmail.
 
Wow.

"Dominic Cummings, was shortly afterwards confronted on the parliamentary estate by the Labour MP Karl Turner, who said MPs including himself had received more death threats. Cummings responded: “Well, vote for a deal then.”"

Boris Johnson refuses to apologise for language about Jo Cox https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/26/boris-johnson-refuses-to-apologise-for-language-about-jo-cox?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

What deal? The one the ERG, the DUP and Johnson himself rejected? There is no other deal.
 
I'm not defending anyone specifically and not denying inflammatory language has been used, all I'm saying is that I have seen and heard inflammatory language and behaviour on BOTH sides of the house. I found the behaviour of the government and the opposition benches unacceptable, as I have for the last 3 years. They are all a self serving rabble in my opinion that need sweeping out of Westminster. Extreme right capitalists on one side and Extreme left socialists on the other all shouting each other down with snide and unprofessional narrative.

And that's it, each side has its own narrative and that is what is driving this situation like the centre of the suns core. Constant fission. There should be proper cross party talks to get through this and it should be done in a professional and dignified way to put an end to this.

I've said before, the world can watch our parliament and I am deeply ashamed of both sides.

Two wrongs don’t make a right..
Why can’t you just admit that Boris Johnson’s behaviour is completely out of order and for a PM to use the language he did was utterly deplorable?
The guy is unfit to hold office and he should resign. The strategy being used by this government is incredibly dangerous and all the press should do the decent thing and not try to condone it, irrespective of your political persuasion or your thoughts on Brexit!
Go on, I dare you just do the right thing!!!
 
Using such nonsensical language to try and shut down debate might work in your echo chamber, but it won't work where people have the ability to see for themselves.

I will repeat the question. Are you suggesting Brendan Cox is also talking "balderdash"?

You are suggesting that any
one who doesn't pin the blame 100% on the government is doing just that. Well, Mr Cox and several MPs say something very different.
When you start calling members of parliament turkeys it's not only balderdash but infantile and puerile.
 
Two wrongs don’t make a right..

Agreed, easy.


Why can’t you just admit that Boris Johnson’s behaviour is completely out of order and for a PM to use the language he did was utterly deplorable?

I can, I think Boris Johnsons behaviour throughout his political career has been deplorable, but that is a claim I will lie at the feet of many MP's, Prime Minister or not. Easy matey.

The guy is unfit to hold office

Yes, he is but I will also level that accusation at Jeremy Corbyn.

and he should resign.

I don't agree with that fundamentally, yes he is being very aggressive but I also think the opposition sides are being very aggressive too. Sorry dude, just the way I'm seeing it.

The strategy being used by this government is incredibly dangerous and all the press should do the decent thing and not try to condone it, irrespective of your political persuasion or your thoughts on Brexit!

The strategy being used is a result of the strategies employed by those looking to scupper Brexit. It has come to this high stakes game because there has been no compromise between leave and remain voting MP's.

Go on, I dare you just do the right thing!!!

I do the right thing multiple times per day Rams.
 
Might've been JRM on a recruitment drive.
 
I'm not defending anyone specifically and not denying inflammatory language has been used, all I'm saying is that I have seen and heard inflammatory language and behaviour on BOTH sides of the house. I found the behaviour of the government and the opposition benches unacceptable, as I have for the last 3 years. They are all a self serving rabble in my opinion that need sweeping out of Westminster. Extreme right capitalists on one side and Extreme left socialists on the other all shouting each other down with snide and unprofessional narrative.

And that's it, each side has its own narrative and that is what is driving this situation like the centre of the suns core. Constant fission. There should be proper cross party talks to get through this and it should be done in a professional and dignified way to put an end to this.

I've said before, the world can watch our parliament and I am deeply ashamed of both sides.

Excellent post. The majority on all sides are behaving totally childishly. And these are the folk we elected to run the country. When they act and behave in such an adversarial manner how the heck can anyone complain when the electorate mimic their behaviour. We might certainly get the politicians we deserve but if anyone claims that these folk are more intelligent than the electorate they purport to represent then my firm belief is that they must be a sandwich short of a picnic.
 
The Incredible Hulk will hide from next week's PMQs, and will be delivering a Conference speech instead, apparently.
 
BJ's sister also taking issue (along with younger brother before). Don't hear her criticising 'both sides' either.

When asked who's behind her brother's behaviour: "It could be Cummings advising the PM to be extremely aggressive...it could be people who have invested billions in shorting the £ in the expectation of a no-deal Brexit."

I don't need to add any personal commentary.

That's what I hate about hedge funds. Not that they make money out of other peoples suffering but they are sometimes proactive in causing that suffering so that they can make money out of shorting the position.
 
Jess Phillips says man arrested after trying to smash windows at her constituency office
The Labour MP Jess Phillips, who represents Birmingham Yardley, has revealed that a man has been arrested after trying to “kick the door” of her constituency office while reportedly shouting that she was a fascist. She told LBC Radio: I’ve only just heard about it myself but my staff had to be locked into my office while the man tried to smash the windows and kick the door, I believe. I don’t know what I can say because the man has been arrested.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ed-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live



EDIT UPDATE: Man has been arrested and had loads of cannabis on him too :lol: :wenger:



also

 
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Might be the only thing that ends up uniting this country when all is said and done.

It could well be, I think people are getting genuinely sick of being ruled, manipulated and lied to by wealthy immoral shitbags who care about nothing other than their own profits.

What I do think should happen is educating our children from a very early age on politics and making future generations aware of the importance of voting and what they're voting for. I'm not sure if thats become the norm nowadays but back in the 90s Politics was a largely tabboo subject.

As for a reform, I do agree that it needs to happen. But the big problem is finding people from different backgrounds and industries willing to come forward to represent. But also finding a system that works and is fair for all poltiical minds. Career Politicians can feck off though.

For a start, there should be laws put in place to protect the general public from Politicans who spread consistent lies.
Education is definitely needed, the first things I would implement would be a rule stating anyone who wants to be a politician should be disqualified :lol:

Totally normal.


This is some real north korea/usa style indoctrination shit!
 
What will happen to Tory conference now Commons is sitting next week?
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ed-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live

The Conservative party is expected to clarify later what impact the decision not to have a mini-recess next week will have on its party conference.

James Cleverly, the chairman, has already said it is not going to be cancelled. Political parties make a huge amount of money from their party conferences, because members and lobbyists have to pay to attend (you can see the Tory charges here - pdf) and so it was always going to go ahead, regardless of what the supreme court decided on prorogation.

But the timetable may have to be rearranged. Boris Johnson was due to speak around lunchtime on Wednesday. Now he will be due in the Commons at that point, for PMQs, and so his speech is likely to be moved. For him to boycott the Commons and send, say, Dominic Raab in his place as a PMQs stand-in would be grossly disrespectful to parliament - although, on those grounds, the idea might appeal to Dominic Cummings. Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, has told MPs he expects Boris Johnson to be in the house on Wednesday (see 2.45pm), but in the current circumstances, that could easily change.

What is also not clear is whether or not the opposition, aka the “rebel alliance”, will try to seize control of the Commons timetable next week to pass more anti-no-deal Brexit legislation.

Yesterday Labour whips offered the government a non-aggression pact, saying that as long as the Commons sat on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, they would be happy to debate non-contentious business (meaning there would be not need for a three-line whip, and most MPs would be able to go to Manchester). The conference is said to be worth £30m to the Manchester economy, and Labour did not want to take the blame for the city losing out. The government whips did not take up the offer, pushed for a recess instead, and lost the vote.

The business now tabled for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday (see2.13pm) is non-contentious and in normal circumstances there would be no need for a three-line whip. But does the non-aggression offer still hold? Probably not. That offer was made before Boris Johnson spent three hours in the Commons disrespecting the memory of Jo Cox and using language seen as “inciting hatred towards MPs”. (See 10.50am.) As my colleague Rowena Mason reports, opposition parties are meeting now to discuss what they will do next week. There is no reason to think they won’t want to do all they can disrupt next week for the government.

If the opposition does try to use next week to pass emergency legislation to firm up the Benn Act, then the government will want its MPs in London on a three-line whip. If that is the case, the Tory conference can still go ahead, but a lot of fringe events might look a bit empty.
 
The guy is ****ing dangerous and his Trump brand of divisive politics needs to stop. I hope he runs himself and the Tory party into the ground.
 
The guy is ****ing dangerous and his Trump brand of divisive politics needs to stop.
Opposition party leaders have finished their meeting where they discussed what more might be done to stop a no-deal Brexit on 31 October. Jo Swinson left the talks early to speak to police about a threat made against one of her young children.
 
I'm not defending anyone specifically and not denying inflammatory language has been used, all I'm saying is that I have seen and heard inflammatory language and behaviour on BOTH sides of the house. I found the behaviour of the government and the opposition benches unacceptable, as I have for the last 3 years. They are all a self serving rabble in my opinion that need sweeping out of Westminster. Extreme right capitalists on one side and Extreme left socialists on the other all shouting each other down with snide and unprofessional narrative.

And that's it, each side has its own narrative and that is what is driving this situation like the centre of the suns core. Constant fission. There should be proper cross party talks to get through this and it should be done in a professional and dignified way to put an end to this.

I've said before, the world can watch our parliament and I am deeply ashamed of both sides.
The behaviour in Parliament is often boorish and emotive and string language has always been used. It can often be ridiculous.

However, what is happening currently, with a PM and executive deliberately using a strategy of divisive rhetoric portraying any who is not with them as treacherous, mining the seam of Second World War language, is unprecedented. He is actively choosing to portray the infrastructure of legislature of this country as being against the people. All this whilst they have prorogued Parliament unlawfully to achieve their aim at all costs and been forced back to the house by the courts.

This is new and incredibly dangerous. It is not normal and a level above the usual Parliamentary nonsense.
 
2 things will likely happen in the days ahead:

A pro remain or pro 2nd referendum MP will be violently assaulted or worse.

MPs themselves will be involved in physical altercations.
 
2 things will likely happen in the days ahead:

A pro remain or pro 2nd referendum MP will be violently assaulted or worse.

MPs themselves will be involved in physical altercations.
I'll add another thing to that list; Johnson having the Daily Mail credit any future threats or attacks on an MP as a false flag incident.
 
Wait, they even lost the vote on conference recess? (I've missed the news thus far today).

Boris couldn't win if his children were voting on their favorite father...
 
Wait, they even lost the vote on conference recess? (I've missed the news thus far today).

Boris couldn't win if his children were voting on their favorite father...

Imagine he could have used another 20 or so MPs about now...
 
Ramp-up the rhetoric = manufactured mandate: 'The people are righteously angry, so we MPs had better get Brexit done.'
 
Wait, they even lost the vote on conference recess? (I've missed the news thus far today).

Boris couldn't win if his children were voting on their favorite father...
But they're still going ahead with the conference and Boris is going to scurry away from Wednesdays PMQs to talk at it.

The parallels with Trump are astonishing. Big bully who hides from questions in order to give a rousing speech in front of sycophants.
 
However, what is happening currently, with a PM and executive deliberately using a strategy of divisive rhetoric portraying any who is not with them as treacherous, mining the seam of Second World War language, is unprecedented. He is actively choosing to portray the infrastructure of legislature of this country as being against the people. All this whilst they have prorogued Parliament unlawfully to achieve their aim at all costs and been forced back to the house by the courts.

This is new and incredibly dangerous. It is not normal and a level above the usual Parliamentary nonsense.

I agree with most of your post matey, I really do but there is the other side of the argument that there are people, and they’re not all racist murderers, that feel Boris is fighting FOR them. Those people that voted for Brexit are seeing a genuine democratic victory being blocked by remain parties / MP’s. That behaviour is also considered divisive.

So as I said earlier, there are two narratives being ardently fought out with increasingly volatile language and behaviour. There has got to be some eventual compromise over this issue somewhere.
 
The strategy being used is a result of the strategies employed by those looking to scupper Brexit. It has come to this high stakes game because there has been no compromise between leave and remain voting MP's.

Are there many really trying to scupper Brexit?

Seems to me like most MP’s are just trying to prevent us crashing out with no deal.
 
Boris Johnson’s own sister..
I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against. I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said “Britain first”, of the far right tendency, which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.
 
I'll add another thing to that list; Johnson having the Daily Mail credit any future threats or attacks on an MP as a false flag incident.
I used to marvel at the fact that 95% of British MPs were virtually anonymous and could go about their lives relatively normally; footballers had far more intrusion into their personal lives than back bench MPs of the day. And compare that to say Asian democracies like India or Thailand where MPs live behind security and privilege.

The abuse MPs get now is unprecedented and real. BJ and his Brexiters have destroyed this normality in UK, perhaps forever. What’s next: will all MPs now require police protection? It will have long lasting effects on how MPs can interact and remain connected to their constituents.
 
Are there many really trying to scupper Brexit?

Seems to me like most MP’s are just trying to prevent us crashing out with no deal.

I think there are dude yeah. Some, the Lib Dem’s now are open about this although I think remain are almost as split on the issue as the leave camp.

This needs some maturity now from both sides, it is clearly at boiling point and needs to be resolved but both sides seem more hell bent on digging their heels in than ever.
 
I think there are dude yeah. Some, the Lib Dem’s now are open about this although I think remain are almost as split on the issue as the leave camp.

This needs some maturity now from both sides, it is clearly at boiling point and needs to be resolved but both sides seem more hell bent on digging their heels in than ever.
I dont see what the issue is in trying to scupper Brexit. 16.1m also voted against it. And if there was a 2nd referendum, REMAIN would win by a country mile.

Everyone know this, hence why the LEAVE camp are so scared of a people’s vote or 2nd referendum. There is ‘no will of the people’: it’s been debunked as complete horseshit.

And I’m delighted so many MPs have the morality to stick by their convictions and not flip flop like tories simply cos they want to stay in power. The maturity required by all is to admit that opinions can change and be open to that.