Westminster Politics

Volumiza said:
No politician encourages nutjobs. Nutjobs are nutjobs. Labour and the left have been labelling the Conservatives 'The nasty tories' for years. THis language is nothing new. Parliament is full of treachury and betrayal on BOTH sides of the house. Nothing new here. It is just massively inflamed due to the surreall circumstances we are now in. We cannot and should not sanitise our language to such a degree that we cannot debate or communicate feelings at all.
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It's not just individual 'nut jobs' though is it. We're talking about football hooligan mobs, the EDL and the whole "Free Tommeh" brigade who are just looking for a reason to kick off. Johnson is pandering to them and fanning the flames every single day.

TheReligion said:
I'm not surprised the family aren't happy. That should be enough to draw a line under it although I fully expect it to be brought up again today.

I don't necessarily think Sheriff meant to point score but she could have made her point without rambling on about being 'under the shield of dead college Jo Cox'. Think of her family and not yourselves FFS.
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Agree 100%. Like I said people on both sides need to think about her kids and leave her name out of it.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Wall to wall media coverage this morning about the use of some words in parliament. It’s truly unbelievable. MPs and media are so incompetent they just obsess over the trivialities to cover it up.

Surely no serious adult really believes that a few childish words are the real cause of anger in the country
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Volumiza said:
Hear hear. Good post.

If we now live in a world where words such as Surrender, Humbug and Betrayal are seen as dangerous words then my workplace and our local pub are the most dangerous places in the world.
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You know what, I tend to agree. It's a nonsense really isn't it? Everyone now getting hung up on inflammatory language rather than the key issues at hand. Nothing was achieved by recalling parliament yesterday other than childish arguing on both sides of the house. The is what inflames public opinion, not the use of nasty words.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
It's not just individual 'nut jobs' though is it. We're talking about football hooligan mobs, the EDL and the whole "Free Tommeh" brigade who are just looking for a reason to kick off. Johnson is pandering to them and fanning the flames every single day.
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There may be some truth in that but Johnson is also talking for a lot of normal people who voted that way. Not just extreme right nutjobs.

CassiusClaymore said:
Agree 100%. Like I said people on both sides need to think about her kids and leave her name out of it.
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Correct..
 
Fully Fledged said:
Because people are getting death threats and the PM is calling it humbug but how can it be humbug if somebody has already been killed because of Brexit?
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Brexit didn't kill her ... a racist nutter killed her. And since when the heck has 'Humbug' been a bad word? Social media has allowed anonymous keyboard warriors to spew their bile on all sides on all arguments. That's it, nothing more. It happens over race, sexuality, political arguments. It's not a Boris problem or a Brexit problem ... it is just a problem!
 
Volumiza said:
I can't because I haven't had any and I am not blinkered, and I am a thoroughly decent person thanks.
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So you’ve never had your own life threatened or had a friend and colleague murdered but you’re still sure this isn’t a serious issue they should be worried about?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
The problem is that on the right you have a growing terrorist threat, it simply doesn't exist on the left.
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As a centrist (no doubt I'll get called out on that) matey, I am ashamed of BOTH right and left at the minute. I look around in a state of complete bewilderment at current events and the people who fill the house of commons on BOTH sides.
 
Kentonio said:
So you’ve never had your own life threatened or had a friend and colleague murdered but you’re still sure this isn’t a serious issue they should be worried about?
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Now I never said it wasn't a serious issue, you're filling in some blanks that weren't there. I just said it wasn't because of some 'words' and I stick by it.
 
Volumiza said:
Brexit didn't kill her ... a racist nutter killed her. And since when the heck has 'Humbug' been a bad word? Social media has allowed anonymous keyboard warriors to spew their bile on all sides on all arguments. That's it, nothing more. It happens over race, sexuality, political arguments. It's not a Boris problem or a Brexit problem ... it is just a problem!
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The prime minister of the UK was saying he had never heard such nonsense after being asked to stop using inflammatory language that keeps being quoted in death threats. That is outrageous. How is this hard to understand?
 
Volumiza said:
As a centrist (no doubt I'll get called out on that) matey, I am ashamed of BOTH right and left at the minute. I look around in a state of complete bewilderment at current events and the people who fill the house of commons on BOTH sides.
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Point still stands though, there is a legitimate terrorist threat from the right, another plot to murder an MP was foiled recently. It does't exist on the left. Boris using inflammatory language on the Brexit and right side of the debate is far more dangerous.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Wall to wall media coverage this morning about the use of some words in parliament. It’s truly unbelievable. MPs and media are so incompetent they just obsess over the trivialities to cover it up.

Surely no serious adult really believes that a few childish words are the real cause of anger in the country
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Look up the case of Jack Renshaw. There are some very sick people out there and language that was used last night makes these crazies feel that their actions are supported by people within government.

I'm appalled by how Johnson and his cabinet behaved last night. I hated Thatcher and her cronies but even they never stooped as low as this even when they were agreeing shoot to kill policies in Ireland. God help us if Johnson ever held real power with a majority. In fact you would be on your own...I'd leave the country.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Point still stands though, there is a legitimate terrorist threat from the right, another plot to murder an MP was foiled recently. It does't exist on the left. Boris using inflammatory language on the Brexit and right side of the debate is far more dangerous.
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I'm not disagreeing with you. But I fail to see any inflammatory language used by Boris that is any worse than that coming across from the opposition benches. I still stand by my point that both sides should be genuinely ashamed of their current conduct.
 
NWRed said:
I'm afraid we're already there, just take a look at the papers, the express, mail and telegraph wouldn't be out of place in 30's Germany. I genuinely fear we're heading for civil unrest, the army on the streets and Johnson at the dispatch box brushing it off for the next 5 years, all while the BBC excuse the actions with their particular brand of subtle propaganda.
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True. We are truly on the cusp of this happening. If they can dispute a supreme court ruling with such brazen disregard, under the guise of brexit, they can dispute anything.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
I think that's a fair point re: Jo Cox. Her kids have to go to school and every time she gets mentioned (by either side) and it blows up in the press again they're gonna have to deal with it all over again. I think Paula Sheriff could've made that point without bringing her up but neither do I think she was using it to score political points. The response by the areshole across from her was as low as a snakes belly though.
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It's disgraceful that she has been politically weaponised by BOTH sides of the house.
 
Steven Seagull said:
All the interviewees were calm which is why Campbell kept them on the line. Campbell also brought up the question of bias first by stating he gets called the Brexit Broadcasters and Brussels Broadcasters by either side on a regular basis. He also read a text out from a remainer calling every leaver thick.
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It was a really interesting contrast between the depressingly hateful language used in the HoC and the far more measured language used by the contributers on the radio.
In my view it was a specific tactic of the Conservatives to go on the attack as a means to deflect the Supreme Court ruling.
The behaviour of Geoffrey Cox was completely unacceptable; especially for his position.
This smacks again of Cummings heavy handedness. He has much to answer for.
I was delighted with the comments of John Bercow this morning.
 
buchansleftleg said:
Look up the case of Jack Renshaw. There are some very sick people out there and language that was used last night makes these crazies feel that their actions are supported by people within government.

I'm appalled by how Johnson and his cabinet behaved last night. I hated Thatcher and her cronies but even they never stooped as low as this even when they were agreeing shoot to kill policies in Ireland. God help us if Johnson ever held real power with a majority. In fact you would be on your own...I'd leave the country.
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There are some very sick people everywhere who do things for a myriad of reasons or even no reason. Bercow should’ve just told Johnson to stop being a twat and call it the Benn amendment and not surrender. Language isn’t going to change the opinion of a nutter who thinks his vote has been torn up
 
TheReligion said:
Nah I get that but I also think you just have to deal with it. I have had death threats in my job, some ridiculous and others a bit more menacing, but it is what it is. It's totally wrong obviously but they shouldn't keep dragging up Jo Cox to petty point score in my opinion. It's all overly dramatic.
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It's not overly dramatic at all. What happened to Jo Cox proves that.

Is it point scoring if you are concerned that a "colleagues" comments are increasing your frequency of death threats, so you confront them? I certainly would if it happened in my place of work.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
It's not overly dramatic at all. What happened to Jo Cox proves that.

Is it point scoring if you are concerned that a "colleagues" comments are increasing your frequency of death threats, so you confront them? I certainly would if it happened in my place of work.
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You can make your point though without bringing up Jo Cox in name. Respect her family.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
I think that's a fair point re: Jo Cox. Her kids have to go to school and every time she gets mentioned (by either side) and it blows up in the press again they're gonna have to deal with it all over again. I think Paula Sheriff could've made that point without bringing her up but neither do I think she was using it to score political points. The response by the areshole across from her was as low as a snakes belly though.
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So no one should ever mention her? How are we going to learn from history if we don't learn from it?

Why do you think we remember tragedies such as the Manchester bombing or 911?
 
Volumiza said:
I'm neither dude, and this is why I try and stay our of the current events threads :lol:

There is anger and inflammatory rhetoric on BOTH side of the house and I see no words from EITHER side that inflame my emotions so much as to enact my anger.
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Of course but you're a normal person. Sadly there are plenty of people who are not and mps are getting death threats with wording thr same as boris uses. He could easily say thr motion to block no deal has hurt his negotiating power but using words like traitor and surrender appeal to certain types, more commonly the right and or radicals. I'm not saying there aren't nutters on both sides, and jo coxs husband spoke the radio today saying both sides are guilty of using poor language, but its way more common to see right leaning social media posts about violence and aggression in relation to brexit.
 
nokillingmoths said:
Of course but you're a normal person. Sadly there are plenty of people who are not and mps are getting death threats with wording thr same as boris uses.
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It's a bit insane that you even have to type that out because it's pretty obvious right? The question is whether you think receiving death threats should be classed as part of the job. Any normal sane person would say that its totally unacceptable and anyone fanning the flames should be reprimanded.

But unfortunately it's got to the point where it's turned political and therefore people will defend the indefensible.
 
nokillingmoths said:
Of course but you're a normal person. Sadly there are plenty of people who are not and mps are getting death threats with wording thr same as boris uses. He could easily say thr motion to block no deal has hurt his negotiating power but using words like traitor and surrender appeal to certain types, more commonly the right and or radicals. I'm not saying there aren't nutters on both sides, and jo coxs husband spoke the radio today saying both sides are guilty of using poor language, but its way more common to see right leaning social media posts about violence and aggression in relation to brexit.
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But that implies Boris has to curb his terminology more than the opposition benches. Both sides use aggressive debating language. Boris has used the word 'Humbug' which means deceptive talk or behaviour - whereas Boris himself has been flat out called a liar! I'm not saying he isn't a liar but you get my point. It doesn't matter which side has the bigger nutters, BOTH sides of the house are guilty of inflammatory talk.
 
Volumiza said:
Exactly. Both sides are locked in a vicious battle and the public are just as angry.
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Total false equivalence only possible by those from the offending side.

yesterday’s discussion was about one side complaining about the other sides unlawful action and language used to defend it.

Can’t remember any language from opposition bench that used objectionable language or Government bench complaining about it. But you’re welcome to correct me given you stated it came from both sides.
 
sammsky1 said:
Total false equivalence only possible by those from the offending side.
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I'm no offender :lol:

sammsky1 said:
yesterday’s discussion was about one side complaining about the other sides unlawful action and language used to defend it.

Can’t remember any language from opposition bench that used objectionable language or Government bench complaining about it. But you’re welcome to correct me given you stated it came from both sides.
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So there hasn't been angry exchanges, smears, name calling and vitriol from both sides of the house of the last 3 years? What channel are you watching Sammsky1? I'm not just talking about last night.
 
I can see what @Volumiza is saying and it seems the husband of Jo Cox agrees.

To play devils advocate someone could assassinate the PM off the back of people branding him a liar, leader of a coup and a fascist.
 
TheReligion said:
Nah I get that but I also think you just have to deal with it. I have had death threats in my job, some ridiculous and others a bit more menacing, but it is what it is. It's totally wrong obviously but they shouldn't keep dragging up Jo Cox to petty point score in my opinion. It's all overly dramatic.
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Yesterdays scenes were so unacceptable, the speaker has had to issue a 'yellow card' this morning. It's unprecedented.

 
TheReligion said:
I can see what @Volumiza is saying and it seems the husband of Jo Cox agrees.

To play devils advocate someone could assassinate the PM off the back of people branding him a liar, leader of a coup and a fascist.
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You would agree, he's speaking from you're own echo chamber. :wenger:
 
TheReligion said:
You can make your point though without bringing up Jo Cox in name. Respect her family.
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The context in which it was brought up was extremely relevant. It shouldn't be taboo to discuss what happened to Jo Cox, if discussed respectfully and rationally.

This idea of respecting her family by never mentioning her name seems strange. Especially in the context of us remembering important people and events on a regular basis. Why should we never discuss Jo Cox? To me that concept seems as ridiculous as not being allowed to mention fallen soldiers names on remembrance day!

You assume that's what she would have wanted? Or what her family wants?

I genuinely find it a strange form of repression or self censorship.
 
Volumiza said:
I'm no offender :lol:



So there hasn't been angry exchanges, smears, name calling and vitriol from both sides of the house of the last 3 years? What channel are you watching Sammsky1? I'm not just talking
about last night.
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There is the robust use of language, and then there is language which outlawed politicians from Hitlers and IRA era used and led to consequences and is proven to incite violence. You are defending the latter.

I watch and read from many sources, from both sides. Just see my posts on this event from last 24 hours.
 
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