We have too many players who aren't cut out for the highest level

legball said:
You did not answer my question. Our players are not all that & definitely not good enough to compete at the top, I agree with you, 100%. But your reason is because of the clubs we signed them from (you cited Torino, compared to Aston Villa etc) - so, how are Pochettino's buys great when Alli came from the lower league, Eriksen from Holland just like Depay, Alderweireld was shit in Spain? If you make a good point and give shit reasons, you undermine your own point.
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Tottenham are overachieving for one season. They aren't some great example, and shouldn't be used as such until this group of players replicates this form. Reality is that they will also need better players, otherwise they will be overtaken before they blink. So will Leicester. Because you can't overachieve forever.

Unlike Tottenham, United haven't overachieved this season. They've perhaps underachieved, but not hugely. The level of this squad is probably about fifth.

This is all ignoring the fact that Pochettino has (in my opinion) better players to work with, anyway.
 
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Speak said:
Leicester aren't playing/winning at the highest level, though. Why are they being used as an example? They might win one league title. That's it. That's not the 'highest level'.

As for the rest: Yes, the manager isn't getting the most out of the players, but the squad still isn't good enough. Both are issues that need addressing.
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They are top of the league which would do for me right now how about you? As I said its the responsibility of the manager to manage, that includes getting the best from what he has at his disposal.
Is our manager doing that? I suggest not.I recall SAF beating Arsenal in a cup tie with a side that included Rafael in central midfield, thats managing.
 
itso 7 said:
Your hate for Mata is clouding your judgement, Mata is CL winner ffs what can be more top level pedigree that that? He is playing poorly and has been an average signing, granted, but that doesn't dilute his previous achievements and the same applies to every other player. And what's this nonsense about players from not-great teams? Vardy and co have torn the league a new one I guess in a previous life they must have played for Barca or Di Stefano's Madrid! The players we have can not be judged sorely on what happened this season as if there was no football prior to this season, the board have made endure a toxic environment beyond their limits and the majority of them are mentally jaded whilst the likes of Smalling have been run to the ground due to poor squad planning by management. This set of circumstances is not one on which we can base conclusive judgments on the abilities of this squad and in saying that I'm not saying some players shouldn't be held accountable for their contributions or lack thereof but that caution has to applied lest we will throw away the baby with the wash water and fall for the hyperbole you're touting like Welbeck having more top team pedigree than Mata!
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Winning the Champions League (in the most ugly fashion in history) is not proof of a great team. Greece weren't a great team either, and they weren't half as ugly. And even so, Mata's overall impact lessened in that run. He was their player of the season, did the business in their average league campaigns, but wasn't close to their most influential player in that Champions League run.

Great sides win both leagues and cups. And if not both, leagues are still better indicators - due to the nature of cup football in comparison to league football.

As for Leicester: I can't say it any more times. They're overachieving! Not every team can overachieve at the same time. United should (in my opinion) be about fifth, based on squad/first team quality. They're probably slightly underachieving. But not hugely.
 
The Brown Bull said:
They are top of the league which would do for me right now how about you? As I said its the responsibility of the manager to manage, that includes getting the best from what he has at his disposal.
Is our manager doing that? I suggest not.I recall SAF beating Arsenal in a cup tie with a side that included Rafael in central midfield, thats managing.
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The manager is underachieving. We all know this. You and others feel he's underachieving hugely in the league, and I think it's only slightly.

Regardless, the players aren't good enough. And van Gaal should have realised that by now and stopped trying to pretend he has Neymar and Robben in his team. Martinez didn't learn, and got his team relegated, when he should have been playing Allardyce-ball. I agree on that, for sure.

Sir Alex is irrelevant, really. That chapter's over.

As for Leicester: They're overachieving and it's clicking perfectly. it happens. But not everyone can overachieve at the same time.
 
anant said:
I don't believe that we have a poor squad
Lets go player by player:
DDG- Possibly the best GK right now
Romero- Although not great, pretty decent shot stopper. 1st choice for Argentina
Darmian- Italy's greatest strength has been defence and he is their 1st choice RB. We were pretty happy when he was signed and was then touted as among top 5 RBs
Valencia- Eh, but still an international. Versatile to some extent.
Smalling- England's best CB, among best in league.
PJ- Always injured and not very intelligent. But still fancy him to be a good defender if has an extended injury free run. Has strength, and also is brave.
Rojo- A decent defender and was part of WC all star team.
Shaw- definitely among top 3 young LBs and among the best LBs in PL
Blind- Versatile, good reader of the game, good long balls
Fellaini- Part of Belgian set up who are among the best teams
Carrick- Great passer
Schneiderlin- Possibly most consistent CDM in Eng for last 2-3 years
Herrera- Can score, energetic and if played attackingly is a great player
Schweini- WC winner 2 years ago and was integral part of their side
Mata- Easily the most intelligent player and most technically proficient player. Chelsea's player of the season 2 times in a row, including the season when they won UCL
Depay- Eredivisie top scorer. WC best young player nominee, not sure if he won or not
Young- great crosser of late, very direct player, among the best crossers
Martial- Great player.
Rooney- Top scorer for Eng, still has something left in him.

All in all, every player is a current international barring 2- one is a Spanish MF and Young is not getting in only because of God knows what. And all of them are player for top 10 countries except Valencia.
As far as Rooney is concerned- no Utd striker has been successful under LVG, even MArtial was anonymous yesterday and his best chance came when drifting in from wide.
Won't say our side is bad, but it seriously lacks depth
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Listing them out like that makes them look even worse. And if I was to highlight in red the ones who are much better in name/status than actual ability, (Rooney, Carrick, Schweinsteiger) it would look even worse.

Very few footballers jump out of that list as anything special. It looks much like a pretty mediocre top six squad, in all honesty. And it shows when they play football together.

And before you mention Leicester. They're overachieving! Not every manager in football can get his team to overachieve, and obviously not every team can overachieve at the same time.
 
Speak said:
Who said you can't win with players from smaller clubs? I didn't.
I only said it's no surprise that when you sign players from mediocre teams and put them together you become a mediocre team. It would be a surprise if a bunch of top six players suddenly made a title winning side. Who was moaning about where players are signed from?

The team yesterday was made up of players from mediocre teams. Smalling and Carrick was where the proper pedigree began and ended yesterday. So I'm not surprised the team played like crap. I wouldn't be surprised if some mediocre Bilbao or Southampton team lost yesterday (or dropped silly points to Bournemouth), so why would I be surprised a team of their players lost?
And actually... once again - who cares what happened under Sir Alex? It's irrelevant.
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Bilbao beat Marseille yesterday with a stonking goal and a lot of people would love to get Aymeric Laporte here as would a lot of bigger clubs. John Stones from a club who are below us in the league, a club who can't defend.
 
Speak said:
Listing them out like that makes them look even worse. And if I was to highlight in red the ones who are much better in name/status than actual ability, (Rooney, Carrick, Schweinsteiger) it would look even worse.

Very few footballers jump out of that list as anything special. It looks much like a pretty mediocre top six squad, in all honesty. And it shows when they play football together.

And before you mention Leicester. They're overachieving! Not every manager in football can get his team to overachieve, and obviously not every team can overachieve at the same time.
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Pretty much. We're a team full of players who were class (Rooney and Schweinsteiger, maybe even Mata sometimes), have the potential to be class and are starting to show it (Martial, Smalling), and players who have the potential to be class but aren't. DDG's the only player in our side who I think would consistently got into most other top teams.
 
Speak said:
The manager is underachieving. We all know this. You and others feel he's underachieving hugely in the league, and I think it's only slightly.

Regardless, the players aren't good enough. And van Gaal should have realised that by now and stopped trying to pretend he has Neymar and Robben in his team. Martinez didn't learn, and got his team relegated, when he should have been playing Allardyce-ball. I agree on that, for sure.

Sir Alex is irrelevant, really. That chapter's over.

As for Leicester: They're overachieving and it's clicking perfectly. it happens. But not everyone can overachieve at the same time.
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That is a major point, brought up before, he hasn't got those players. Make the best of what you do have and stop trying to play a system to accommodate signings that didn't and won't happen. Like most manager make the most of what they have.
 
We need to get out of the mindset that just because these players play for Manchester United they are better than everyone else in the Premier league. They have to prove that they are better. If we're honest about some players:

Darmian has not yet proved that he is any better than an average PL right back (who are also internationals), or even better than Valencia or Rafael.

Blind defensively is not better than an average PL centre back.

Lingard - would there be a clamour for us to sign him if he was playing on the right wing for say Norwich? No.

Depay has done nothing yet either in the PL or internationally to suggest he is better than an average PL left winger.

Carrick is 35, Rooney is well past his best, as is Schweinsteiger, Mata is no where near as good as some people think.
 
Dans said:
Here are another set of current internationals:

Pos. Player Date of birth (age) Caps Goals Club
GK Gunnleifur Gunnleifsson 14 July 1975 (age 40) 26 0 Breiðablik
GK Ögmundur Kristinsson 19 June 1989 (age 26) 8 0 Hammarby IF
DF Birkir Már Sævarsson 11 November 1984 (age 31) 55 0 Hammarby IF
DF Ari Freyr Skúlason 14 May 1987 (age 28) 36 0 OB
DF Hallgrímur Jónasson 4 May 1986 (age 29) 15 3 OB
DF Jón Guðni Fjóluson 10 April 1989 (age 26) 8 0 IFK Norrköping
DF Hjörtur Hermannsson 8 February 1995 (age 21) 1 0 IFK Göteborg
DF Diego Jóhannesson 3 October 1993 (age 22) 1 0 Real Oviedo
MF Arnór Smárason 7 September 1988 (age 27) 18 2 Hammarby IF
MF Rúnar Már Sigurjónsson 18 June 1990 (age 25) 9 1 GIF Sundsvall
MF Guðmundur Þórarinsson 15 April 1992 (age 23) 3 0 Nordsjælland
MF Kristinn Steindórsson 29 April 1990 (age 25) 2 2 GIF Sundsvall
MF Aron Elís Þrándarson 10 November 1994 (age 21) 1 0 Aalesunds
MF Aron Sigurðarson 8 October 1993 (age 22) 1 1 Tromsø
MF Ævar Ingi Jóhannesson 31 January 1995 (age 21) 1 0 KA
FW Eiður Guðjohnsen 15 September 1978 (age 37) 84 25 Molde FK
FW Kjartan Finnbogason 9 July 1986 (age 29) 4 0 Horsens
FW Garðar Gunnlaugsson 25 April 1983 (age 32) 1 0 ÍA

Sorry, but that yardstick isn't what it used to be in my opinion.
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But they aren't internationals for top 10 sides in the world. My point is not that the side is great, its way better than the way we are playing. Look at our games vs top 6 sides- Its an exceptional record and we have lost I think only 3 games to those sides in last 2 seasons combined. Its our record vs bottom 6 that is more concerning. This season alone, we have dropped 16 points vs bottom 6 from 9 games!
 
DomesticTadpole said:
That is a major point, brought up before, he hasn't got those players. Make the best of what you do have and stop trying to play a system to accommodate signings that didn't and won't happen. Like most manager make the most of what they have.
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Absolutely. I agree 100%.
I just also feel the squad isn't good enough, and fifth place is about right for them.
 
Speak said:
Listing them out like that makes them look even worse. And if I was to highlight in red the ones who are much better in name/status than actual ability, (Rooney, Carrick, Schweinsteiger) it would look even worse.

Very few footballers jump out of that list as anything special. It looks much like a pretty mediocre top six squad, in all honesty. And it shows when they play football together.

And before you mention Leicester. They're overachieving! Not every manager in football can get his team to overachieve, and obviously not every team can overachieve at the same time.
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Yes, sure no one is denying that Rooney, Carrick, Schweini are past their peak, but I think its their experience that should be considered too. There have been games where Schweini was needed- Sunderland for example, Carrick's importance from last season cannot be denied and he still is an important player, although his role should be like Giggs in later years. Rooney- most dislike him and call him to be dropped, but with the amount of chances we do create, I don't think anyone else will also score any more.

I think personally, that our side has a unit has quite a lot of potential and we struggle only due to lack of depth. We can't be termed as a mediocre top 6 side. Everton under Moyes were one, Spurs a few years ago, yes. But we aren't and simply because a mediocre side doesn't have this exceptional record vs top 6 sides. Since last season, if I remember correctly, we lost only 3 games- Chelsea away, Man City 1-0 and Arsenal 3-0 in the PL. That is a better record than I think every side in PL. The problem is breaking down the smaller sides- we have dropped 16 in 9 this season, possibly among the worst record in League this season. We are far too safe and not ambitious with the ball enough.

And most English sides are only this good- Look at City- Remove Aguero, Kompany their side is possibly worse than ours, and so on. Our side is just as strong as any other side in England, maybe barring Arsenal.
 
Winrar said:
as bad as the players have been I really feel that their downfall is only emphasized by managerial incompetence.
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Spot on. I think there are some very poor players in the squad but I also feel this squad should comfortably be making top four and should also have quite easily gotten out of our CL group. LvG is making this squad of players far worse than they actually are.
 
Leftback99 said:
We need to get out of the mindset that just because these players play for Manchester United they are better than everyone else in the Premier league. They have to prove that they are better. If we're honest about some players:
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This is an absolutely fecking amazing point that is seriously neglected on these forums. As soon as a player like a Hererra, or a Rojo or insert anyone here, gets linked and signed, we instantly assume boom there gunna be a 9/10 quality player because were Manchester united and were a top club.

We need to come to the realisation that not all transfers work out, not all players turn up to the level expected, but more importantly, the club recruitment needs to be held accountable to the overall quality of turnover, and the coaching staff for their further development.
 
Speak said:
Absolutely. I agree 100%.
I just also feel the squad isn't good enough, and fifth place is about right for them.
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Yet you look at Spurs and Leicester, they aren't great squads, but their managers have them performing as a team. Look at City, all those big names and at times they are as bad as us. The club needed to bring in some major players to supplement what we have, but they didn't. If the next manager could do that, the squad will be good. It's like we do everything half-arsed. A manager who can blend them together will be the biggest signing.
 
Oo0AahCantona said:
This is an absolutely fecking amazing point that is seriously neglected on these forums. As soon as a player like a Hererra, or a Rojo or insert anyone here, gets linked and signed, we instantly assume boom there gunna be a 9/10 quality player because were Manchester united and were a top club.

We need to come to the realisation that not all transfers work out, not all players turn up to the level expected, but more importantly, the club recruitment needs to be held accountable to the overall quality of turnover, and the coaching staff for their further development.
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The whole squad needed an overhaul and those players are for the squad, they are fine. What we didn't do was sign the extra quality for the main starters in the big games. I think the manager is actually the reason why some didn't sign, no matter how close they supposedly are to him. Also the uncertainty about who was coming after him. We also pandered to the wishes of an ageing Wayne Rooney and the decimation of the squad without any planning for replacements was idiotic. That Murphy bloke has a lot to answer for.
 
Dans said:
I have never said they are bad, but when you want to compare yourself with Bayern, Real and Barca then those players simply do not cut it.
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Yeah we are so far off that level no doubt. We need a lot of work to get anywhere near it including player recruitment
 
DomesticTadpole said:
The whole squad needed an overhaul and those players are for the squad, they are fine. What we didn't do was sign the extra quality for the main starters in the big games. I think the manager is actually the reason why some didn't sign, no matter how close they supposedly are to him. Also the uncertainty about who was coming after him. We also pandered to the wishes of an ageing Wayne Rooney and the decimation of the squad without any planning for replacements was idiotic. That Murphy bloke has a lot to answer for.
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That's definitely a way to look at it, my take would be the players we let go, the chicharito's, the Nani's the cleverely's the welbecks the evans etc of this world, the lads who haven't lit the world on fire and have mostly been supporting cast members we've bundled off for minor 2-6m etc fee's (16 for welbs sure) could have been the 10-18 games sub appearances a season squad players we've spent 2 seasons replacing to what real tangable benefit?

The way i look at increasing the quality and depth of the squad would be to get in First 11 quality starters, the type of lads you drop 30-40m pounds on and for the most part can expect a return, and as a by product the guys who dont quite cut the mustard but can be useful then become the squad filler.

Are we really better off through time and money spent replacing these chaps, Hernandez/welbeck/rvp/nani/cleverely/evans/fletcher/rafael/kagawa/zaha/vidic/evra, while frankly from what we've seen from their replacements coming in at big fees and wages has been marginal at best improvements from what the old guard would have offered in the squad roles at the club.

Im not saying some of these chaps didnt need replacing, im not saying your view on beefing up the squad with reinforcements is wrong either its totally right, i just think we've spent time and resources replacing fringe players with newer fringe players instead of keeping the bulk of Sir alex's last team together but with 2-3 Bales running around in different areas of the pitch.
 
Speak said:
Winning the Champions League (in the most ugly fashion in history) is not proof of a great team. Greece weren't a great team either, and they weren't half as ugly. And even so, Mata's overall impact lessened in that run. He was their player of the season, did the business in their average league campaigns, but wasn't close to their most influential player in that Champions League run.

Great sides win both leagues and cups. And if not both, leagues are still better indicators - due to the nature of cup football in comparison to league football.

As for Leicester: I can't say it any more times. They're overachieving! Not every team can overachieve at the same time. United should (in my opinion) be about fifth, based on squad/first team quality. They're probably slightly underachieving. But not hugely.
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I didn't say Chelsea was a great team and neither did I say Mata won Chelsea the CL but the fact that he participated in CL winning run and won multiple trophies in that two year period, as central figure in that team, which can not be whitewashed because he's been poor for us. Nothing at all to do with a great side, a theory which was also debunked by the post-Ronaldo United - an average team that won league titles at a canter. This is where clubs like Leicester come in, you don't have to have a rich history in football or any other sport to become champions its what you do when it matters most.
 
Speak said:
Tottenham are overachieving for one season. They aren't some great example, and shouldn't be used as such until this group of players replicates this form. Reality is that they will also need better players, otherwise they will be overtaken before they blink. So will Leicester. Because you can't overachieve forever.

Unlike Tottenham, United haven't overachieved this season. They've perhaps underachieved, but not hugely. The level of this squad is probably about fifth.

This is all ignoring the fact that Pochettino has (in my opinion) better players to work with, anyway.
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Well, he really hasn't.
 
Speak said:
If every team won every game they're 'supposed' to, Sky might as well draw the table up in August.

Teams that aren't actually good enough will drop points that the fans feel they shouldn't drop. That's always how it's been. Newcastle would be top four every year and Tottenham would have titles if the simply won the games they thought they should over the last 10 years.

van Gaal makes things worse, but they're also sub-par players. His fault is trying to coach them like he's managing Neymar and Muller and other top players. He'd 100% be better off coaching them like Ranieri coaches his players or even Hughes. Simple does it for players that aren't top class.
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This is rubbish and you know it. But it will be a pity if you genuinely didn't.
 
Dans said:
It's not my problem. It's my view. I won't be solving any problems. Strange you appear to think that I might.

It's pointless to discuss with someone who thinks he's right and that there's no merit in anything anyone else says. You carry on believing that we are much better than we really are.
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It is my F**KING view that we are, deal with it. You're accusing me of what you are guilty of.
 
We have just as many good players as other teams have.

You aren't going to tell me that Drinkwater, Simpson,Mane and a whole load of others are better!! They are simply performing to the best of their abilities with a belief from their managers....Ours don't!
 
Leftback99 said:
We need to get out of the mindset that just because these players play for Manchester United they are better than everyone else in the Premier league. They have to prove that they are better. If we're honest about some players:

Darmian has not yet proved that he is any better than an average PL right back (who are also internationals), or even better than Valencia or Rafael.

Blind defensively is not better than an average PL centre back.

Lingard - would there be a clamour for us to sign him if he was playing on the right wing for say Norwich? No.

Depay has done nothing yet either in the PL or internationally to suggest he is better than an average PL left winger.

Carrick is 35, Rooney is well past his best, as is Schweinsteiger, Mata is no where near as good as some people think.
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People are saying they are better than what they have shown because this players have shown a good level at other clubs. The players didn't fall from the sky.
 
legball said:
People are saying they are better than what they have shown because this players have shown a good level at other clubs. The players didn't fall from the sky.
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Exactly, we bought these players because they were damn good for their other clubs. There again they were likely managed properly.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Exactly, we bought these players because they were damn good for their other clubs. There again they were likely managed properly.
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I'm tired of repeating it really. I remember over 70% of this forum wanted us to sign Schneiderlin in particular, I remember the reaction here when there were reports he could be signing for Arsenal, but we signed him anyway, now he's shit. I don't get it.
 
legball said:
People are saying they are better than what they have shown because this players have shown a good level at other clubs. The players didn't fall from the sky.
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Schneiderlin has been the biggest let down of the lot for me because I thought he was good for Southampton.

Darmian and Depay had proved nothing in the PL, I can only judge them on what I've seen so far, I didn't get sucked into the pre season hype. Hope they prove me wrong.

Lingard should not be starting for us for the level we believe we should be/are at. At the same time he deserves his place as being better than our other (poor) options.
 
Nah, it's good enough to compete for a PL title. A spine of De Gea, Smalling, Shaw, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Martial and Mata should be performing much better under a new manager. Add in 2 proper top class players in Griezmann and Gundogan and you have a good team. The season after that, add another top class players and you'll be able to at least have a decent shout at the CL.

LvG is the main problem here.
 
VorZakone said:
Nah, it's good enough to compete for a PL title. A spine of De Gea, Smalling, Shaw, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Martial and Mata should be performing much better under a new manager. Add in 2 proper top class players in Griezmann and Gundogan and you have a good team. The season after that, add another top class players and you'll be able to at least have a decent shout at the CL.

LvG is the main problem here.
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True. But it would need to overachieve to do so.
I'd say the players are about fifth best in terms of ability.
 
Speak said:
True. But it would need to overachieve to do so.
I'd say the players are about fifth best in terms of ability.
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No, it wouldn't, they would just need to play as team and at their individual best. Basically they would need to achieve.
 
JPRouve said:
No, it wouldn't, they would just need to play as team and at their individual best. Basically they would need to achieve.
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We'll have to agree to disagree.
I don't deny that van Gaal could have United higher up the table by giving them more simple instructions.

But my opinion is that (like Leicester) it wouldn't last at that level for very long.
The highest level tends to require more advanced tactics than Leicester show. The games become slower, more chess-like, lesser teams sit back and frustrate, and better players are needed.

So to answer the thread: The players still wouldn't be good enough for the highest level. Does this mean this squad couldn't do better right now? No. But I still don't think they're good enough anyway.

I don't see high levels of individual class in this team, and I see little from their past spells at other clubs to excite me about most of them.
 
anant said:
I don't believe that we have a poor squad
Lets go player by player:
DDG- Possibly the best GK right now
Romero- Although not great, pretty decent shot stopper. 1st choice for Argentina
Darmian- Italy's greatest strength has been defence and he is their 1st choice RB. We were pretty happy when he was signed and was then touted as among top 5 RBs
Valencia- Eh, but still an international. Versatile to some extent.
Smalling- England's best CB, among best in league.
PJ- Always injured and not very intelligent. But still fancy him to be a good defender if has an extended injury free run. Has strength, and also is brave.
Rojo- A decent defender and was part of WC all star team.
Shaw- definitely among top 3 young LBs and among the best LBs in PL
Blind- Versatile, good reader of the game, good long balls
Fellaini- Part of Belgian set up who are among the best teams
Carrick- Great passer
Schneiderlin- Possibly most consistent CDM in Eng for last 2-3 years
Herrera- Can score, energetic and if played attackingly is a great player
Schweini- WC winner 2 years ago and was integral part of their side
Mata- Easily the most intelligent player and most technically proficient player. Chelsea's player of the season 2 times in a row, including the season when they won UCL
Depay- Eredivisie top scorer. WC best young player nominee, not sure if he won or not
Young- great crosser of late, very direct player, among the best crossers
Martial- Great player.
Rooney- Top scorer for Eng, still has something left in him.

All in all, every player is a current international barring 2- one is a Spanish MF and Young is not getting in only because of God knows what. And all of them are player for top 10 countries except Valencia.
As far as Rooney is concerned- no Utd striker has been successful under LVG, even MArtial was anonymous yesterday and his best chance came when drifting in from wide.
Won't say our side is bad, but it seriously lacks depth
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We ended up in this sad situation because of such attitude. Injury prone players are useless, players who are way past their peak wont get better in time and players who are not good enough are simply not good enough
 
Speak said:
We'll have to agree to disagree.
I don't deny that van Gaal could have United higher up the table by giving them more simple instructions.

But my opinion is that (like Leicester) it wouldn't last at that level for very long.
The highest level tends to require more advanced tactics than Leicester show. The games become slower, more chess-like, and better players are needed.

So to answer the thread: The players still wouldn't be good enough for the highest level. Does this mean this squad couldn't do better right now? No. But I still don't think they're good enough anyway.

I don't see high levels of individual class in this team, and I see little from their past spells at other clubs to excite me about most of them.
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Since I keep ignoring the highest level part, you and @Dans are right, we would need to bring 3 or 4 players in order to compete at the highest level, but that roster can play at a high level and by that I'm talking about top 3 level and highest level for me means CL semi final.
 
itso 7 said:
I didn't say Chelsea was a great team and neither did I say Mata won Chelsea the CL but the fact that he participated in CL winning run and won multiple trophies in that two year period, as central figure in that team, which can not be whitewashed because he's been poor for us. Nothing at all to do with a great side, a theory which was also debunked by the post-Ronaldo United - an average team that won league titles at a canter. This is where clubs like Leicester come in, you don't have to have a rich history in football or any other sport to become champions its what you do when it matters most.
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I don't take much stock in Chelsea's Champions League win. Maybe others do - and that's great for them, but I don't.
Cups without league titles don't prove anything to me. I also don't rate Liverpool's Istanbul team. It's cup football.

I already have my opinions on Mata anyway. I think he's completely unsuited to a top team.

And I can't be bothered to go on about Leicester. They haven't won anything yet, and it's simply a year of overachieving. They'd need better players to maintain top two.
 
The balance is completely wrong. The top teams in modern football have so much pace and power. A player like Mata just ends up bullied in most of the games he plays. We're a long way from being comparable with FC Bayern but I was watching them the other day, they played the possession football like us, but the wingers were set to take on their man every time. That completely opened up their game. And their striker made runs behind.
The abilty to beat a man on the flanks is something we should be looking for. For me, the front four is our main priority, 3 new players with Martial is a must for this team to get going again.
 
JPRouve said:
Since I keep ignoring the highest level part, you and @Dans are right, we would need to bring 3 or 4 players in order to compete at the highest level, but that roster can play at a high level and by that I'm talking about top 3 level and highest level for me means CL semi final.
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Anything can happen in cup football, so I wouldn't rule anyone out of the semis of a competition, if they're in it. Which was my point about Chelsea - anything can happen in cups.

But do I expect semi-final football from this squad? No chance, especially not consistently. And this is where I just feel my opinions on the squad are miles away from yours (and other fans')
 
Speak said:
Anything can happen in cup football, so I wouldn't rule anyone out of the semis of a competition, if they're in it. Which was my point about Chelsea - anything can happen in cups.

But do I expect semi-final football from this squad? No chance, especially not consistently. And this is where I just feel my opinions on the squad are miles away from yours (and other fans')
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You are missing the point here, elite teams in Europe are determined on their ability to reach the CL semi finals every year, that's what the highest level is.
 
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