We have too many players who aren't cut out for the highest level

[Dans]

Some names to add after tonight's disgrace.

 

[Badunk]

I said this during the Moyes season: our squad doesn't compare to the great ones of Fergie's era. When you had a Schmeichel or VDS in goal, fullbacks of the calibre of Evra, Neville or Irwin, CBs like Bruce and Pallister or Rio/Vidic. When your midfielders were Giggs, Scholes, Keane, Beckham, et al. When your forwards were Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Tevez, Ronaldo RVN, etc. Who in this squad would seriously get near the bench for any of those teams? The keeper and that's it.

But when we were shit under Moyes and you pointed out that the players were shit, you were told that the same players had won the league by 12 points the season before and that all we needed was a couple of midfielders and we were set. It was bollocks then and it's bollocks now. Fergie's gone. His ability to create world class players with a winning mentality is gone. The club is still trying to find out how to do things without the great man leading the way and I think it'll take more than a new manager and a few new players to put it right.

 

[charlenefan]

De Gea - best keeper in the league

Darmian - early into the season was being touted as up there with the best RB's in the league
Smalling - has been praised by many as being one of the best CB's in the league
Shaw - before the leg break was being touted as living up to his massive potential

Morgan - was being touted as someone Arsenal had to sign to complete their midfield

Martial - looks like he's going to be a star but obviously shouldn't be carrying the team

There's only 6 players then in the entire squad I would say are undeniably fit for PL title winners. I would bracket Rooney, Herrera and Mata as players who might flourish under a different manager but it hardly makes things all that much better

Definitely need a CB, possibly a commanding midfielder, without doubt quality on the right wing and without doubt a striker... Good luck whoever follows LVG

 

[Sylar]

Maybe, but then Spurs and Leicester have shown what a difference confidence and a (new) manager can do, or a manager that allows freedom but has a plan.

Two things we lack right now.

 

[rpitchfo]

The youngsters from our academy are the biggest worry. We should be producing the best youth products in the world but it is a conveyer belt of mediocrity. So average.

 

[RORY65]

I said this during the Moyes season: our squad doesn't compare to the great ones of Fergie's era. When you had a Schmeichel or VDS in goal, fullbacks of the calibre of Evra, Neville or Irwin, CBs like Bruce and Pallister or Rio/Vidic. When your midfielders were Giggs, Scholes, Keane, Beckham, et al. When your forwards were Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Tevez, Ronaldo RVN, etc. Who in this squad would seriously get near the bench for any of those teams? The keeper and that's it.

But when we were shit under Moyes and you pointed out that the players were shit, you were told that the same players had won the league by 12 points the season before and that all we needed was a couple of midfielders and we were set. It was bollocks then and it's bollocks now. Fergie's gone. His ability to create world class players with a winning mentality is gone. The club is still trying to find out how to do things without the great man leading the way and I think it'll take more than a new manager and a few new players to put it right.

It's also worth pointing out that we won the league in Ferguson's last year primarily thanks to the performances of a certain few (De Gea, Rafael, Rio, Carrick, Van Persie) while lots of players in that team either dropped off from previous form (Rooney, Nani, Valencia etc.) or just weren't good enough players (Cleverley, Evans etc.). The last time we actually functioned as a team with nearly everyone playing well was probably the latter stages of 2010-11 where we had a goalkeeper, 4 defenders, 2 central midfielders, 2 wide players and 2 forwards all performing to a high standard.

With the exception of De Gea, surely in time Martial and Shaw, and maybe a couple of others, we're miles behind the top teams in Europe and even the likes of Arsenal and City (who will surely be much stronger once Guardiola brings a few players in). Our first team is made up mostly of players who should be squad players despite the massive amounts spent on them. We've also got no cover due to a lack of planning and a ill-thought out, reckless clear-out of the squad. For all the talk of laying foundations, the next manager is still going to have to do a massive rebuilding job with this squad but the key thing is that they need to do it right and learn from the mistakes that Moyes and particularly Van Gaal have made.

 

[RustyS]

Confidence, morale, and form play their part. Every single player we have is currently not playing to their full potential but I don't see a lot of genuinely bad players. We can use top quality in a couple of key areas but what we have now is good to excellent players playing badly for a number of reasons.

 

[Stack]

I've been saying this for months there's a reason we can't beat teams like Bournemouth, Sunderland and Norwich.

It's because our team is full of lower than average players.

3 players deserve their placenow and it's De Gea, CBJ and martial that's it, the rest of the squad can feck off

If this is true please explain Leicester City to me as we have better players than they do.

 

[RDCR07]

We have some really shit players under Fergie. Yet he managed to win the league over and over again. Its down to the manager and man management. LVG clearly is shit at it. He has a considerably strong team on paper.

 

[Orange]

We have some really shit players under Fergie. Yet he managed to win the league over and over again. Its down to the manager and man management. LVG clearly is shit at it. He has a considerably strong team on paper.

He managed to win the league with at least 6 world class players in his first eleven, and now we have just one. That's quite a difference, so man management is definitely not the biggest reason.

 

[RDCR07]

He managed to win the league with at least 6 world class players in his first eleven, and now we have just one. That's quite a difference, so man management is definitely not the biggest reason.

Evra, Vidic, Rio, Rooney, Carrick? Who else? Nani?

 

[mu77]

there could be a list of 5-6 players from damn near every side that would fit this thread title - some that won multiple honors at united. LVG is the issue.

 

[ravi2]

We have some really shit players under Fergie. Yet he managed to win the league over and over again. Its down to the manager and man management. LVG clearly is shit at it. He has a considerably strong team on paper.

there could be a list of 5-6 players from damn near every side that would fit this thread title - some that won multiple honors at united. LVG is the issue.

Exactly. SAF would have won a title with this group.

 

[Orange]

Evra, Vidic, Rio, Rooney, Carrick? Who else? Nani?

RVP playing at the peak of his career

 

[Stack]

He managed to win the league with at least 6 world class players in his first eleven, and now we have just one. That's quite a difference, so man management is definitely not the biggest reason.

How many World Class players do Leicester City have currently?. They may not win the title but they are sitting up top with most of the season already gone. LVG is the biggest factor.

 

[LLMU]

We have some really shit players under Fergie. Yet he managed to win the league over and over again. Its down to the manager and man management. LVG clearly is shit at it. He has a considerably strong team on paper.

SAF said he needed 8 players on the pitch to be performing at their optimum level in order to win games. We only have two or at best three whenever we take the field nowadays. Having say this, I would say man management is definitely the main reason why we can't get the best out of every player.

 

[RDCR07]

RVP playing at the peak of his career

Sure if you're using the term world class then, I can also use it now - Bastian, Mata, Rooney, Smalling and Shaw (if he wasn't injured obviously he would have made great strides this season). Evra was well in his decline. He was good from was found out again and again in every game. Rio was well in his last years. Rooney was shit that last year of Fergie wasn't he? Nani had two seasons where he was absolutely on top of his game. Being consistent isn't the same as world class. Only Vidic and RVP would have probably got into a World XI from that team. Carrick would have made the subs bench.

 

[Orange]

Sure if you're using the term world class then, I can also use it now - Bastian, Mata, Rooney, Smalling and Shaw (if he wasn't injured obviously he would have made great strides this season). Evra was well in his decline. He was good from was found out again and again in every game. Rio was well in his last years. Rooney was shit that last year of Fergie wasn't he? Nani had two seasons where he was absolutely on top of his game. Being consistent isn't the same as world class. Only Vidic and RVP would have probably got into a World XI from that team. Carrick would have made the subs bench.

I think we have a different definition of world class. For me it's being top 5 or 6 or so in their position. At that time, RVP was arguably the best striker in the world. At this point we do not have any players of the calibre of Carrick and Vidic back in 2011, bar DDG. We have Martial and Shaw with great potential, and you could even consider not counting Shaw as he has been/will have been injured for most of this season.

 

[11101]

Ferguson had a squad full of players not cut out for the highest level, and many have been found out since he left, but he made them perform to that level. It's impossible to have a team full of top class players in our league. You need some who aren't quite there but can be motivated to play out of their skins.

 

[RDCR07]

I think we have a different definition of world class. For me it's being top 5 or 6 or so in their position. At that time, RVP was arguably the best striker in the world. At this point we do not have any players of the calibre of Carrick and Vidic back in 2011, bar DDG. We have Martial and Shaw with great potential, and you could even consider not counting Shaw as he has been/will have been injured for most of this season.

If you're still saying 5-6 best players in a position, then Smalling counts. At the start of the season when we got Bastian, are you honestly telling me he wasn't in the top 5-6 central midfielders in the world? Really? Even so even by your count, we have 3 now. Maybe 4 or 5 if we are pushing on Mata and Shaw. If Shaw wasn't injured then he is clearly in the top 6 left backs in the world.

 

[mlclauhk]

Of the current team, I think only 5 players would really have a legitimate shout for a 1st team place. The others should be squad rotation players. We really have a very poor squad.

Stay - 1st Team
De Gea
Martial
Smalling
Darmian
Shaw

Stay - Squad Player
Herrera
Schneiderlin
CBJ
Schweinsteiger (We need the experience and a proven winner.)
Young
Blind (Not a CB. Keep him as a LB, CDM)
Memphis (Needs time to prove himself)
McNair (Needs time to prove himself)
Jones (Needs time to prove himself)
Carrick (Deserves the opportunity to retire at United if he wants, for his long service. Needs to be phased out slowly).


Get rid.
Rojo - Don't understand why we signed him.
Mata - Not good enough. Should have kept Kagawa.
Rooney - Should have listened to Fergie.
Januzaj - Thinks he's much better than he is. Thanks Moyes.
Wilson - Not good enough.
Romero - Isn't a united player.
Valencia - Not good enough.
Felliani - Is not and never will be a United player.
Lingard - Not good enough.

 

[Obiorahking_]

The more and more I look in depth what is wrong with our team the more of a mess I really see.

The only players we have that are playing at a high level are
Martial
De Gea
Smalling
2 of those players are part of our defense, leaving us with only 1 player who has been consistent and brilliant for us on the offensive end, but He is a 19 year old.

We are a team filled with
-Injuries( Shaw and Schweinstiger)
-Oldies(Rooney and Carrick)
-Young/New Talents but too flawed(yet) to be dependable on(Lingard, Depay,Darmian, Januzaj?,Varela)
-Players who have been unable to replicate previous form(Herrera, Mata, Schneiderlin(LVG fault--pairing him with Fella was a terrible move)
-Squad players(Blind, Fella(although I think he has been key as of late),Young, Valencia

OP is right.

 

[legball]

I disagree with OP, I mean, we've lost to Norwich, Sunderland, Bournemouth, Middlesbrough, Midjylland, Swansea, Stoke City, couldn't beat Newcastle over 2 legs. I'm sorry, the squad we have right now, however flawed it is, should be winning these lot comfortably, it's not the quality of players, it's clearly the manager. We won the PL with the likes of Anderson, Fletcher, Cleverly & Oshea in midfield, with the likes of Nani, Valencia, Hernandez & a fading Rooney as part of the attack, that's not a team of superstars now, is it?

Give this team to a competent manager and they're well capable of much. Spurs & Leicester are examples of this, when everybody is at their top level, I don't think I'll take any of their player not named Harry Kane, but look at what they're doing, it all comes down to the manager and ours after almost 2 yrs and loads of money spent, have proven to be incompetent as his job.

 

[Speak]

I disagree with OP, I mean, we've lost to Norwich, Sunderland, Bournemouth, Middlesbrough, Midjylland, Swansea, Stoke City, couldn't beat Newcastle over 2 legs. I'm sorry, the squad we have right now, however flawed it is, should be winning these lot comfortably, it's not the quality of players, it's clearly the manager. We won the PL with the likes of Anderson, Fletcher, Cleverly & Oshea in midfield, with the likes of Nani, Valencia, Hernandez & a fading Rooney as part of the attack, that's not a team of superstars now, is it?

Give this team to a competent manager and they're well capable of much. Spurs & Leicester are examples of this, when everybody is at their top level, I don't think I'll take any of their player not named Harry Kane, but look at what they're doing, it all comes down to the manager and ours after almost 2 yrs and loads of money spent, have proven to be incompetent as his job.

Why do people keep mentioning Tottenham and Leicester as if they've been top two for years? They're both having brilliant seasons, and they[re overachieving.

This United squad would also have to overachieve in order to be top two. Realistically, United and Tottenham are pretty even (I'd say Tottenham shade it on quality, myself) - and for this season Tottenham are overachieving and United are slightly underachieving.

It's not like this is huge underachievement for this squad of players. It's minimal.

Why should they be winning those games? Because United should be winning regardless of quality just because they have United badges on their shirts?
If they won most of those games they'd be top. Which would be overachieving for this squad. It's like Tottenham fans complaining for the last five years that they should have beaten most of the teams they lost to. They'd have won the league if they'd won them. But ultimately they weren't good enough.

 

[legball]

Why do people keep mentioning Tottenham and Leicester as if they've been top two for years? They're both having brilliant seasons, and they[re overachieving.

This United squad would also have to overachieve in order to be top two. Realistically, United and Tottenham are pretty even (I'd say Tottenham shade it on quality, myself) - and for this season Tottenham are overachieving and United are slightly underachieving.

It's not like this is huge underachievement for this squad of players. It's minimal.

Why should they be winning those games? Because United should be winning regardless of quality just because they have United badges on their shirts?
If they won most of those games they'd be top. Which would be overachieving for this squad. It's like Tottenham fans complaining for the last five years that they should have beaten most of the teams they lost to. They'd have won the league if they'd won them. But ultimately they weren't good enough.

No, we should be winning those games because we are BETTER than Bournemouth and teams of that level. I don't know what you're trying to argue. We've not had the best squad in England for years, even under Ferguson, but we consistently won the league or challenged for it, to suggest that this current team isn't capable of challenging for honours is nonsense.

 

[Grylte]

He's good for a goal it seems but I just find him woefully short technically.

Maybe I'm being harsh but he's definitely not first team material.

Needs to be kept as squad player.
Some of us needs to have local lads in the squad.
He'll be happy with starting less matches than many others since he'd been a fan since he was a kid aswell.

Stay - Squad Player
Carrick (Deserves the opportunity to retire at United if he wants, for his long service. Needs to be phased out slowly).

Get rid.
Rooney - Should have listened to Fergie.

I find this extremely unfair.
Nomatter what Form Rooney is in atm, he's still been here for 10 years, and is our top scorer of all times (or close to, i forgot how many goals he got now).
I mean, if we get a ridicolous bid, let him go if he wants a new challenge at the end of his career.
But we shouldn't try to force him out.

 

[Speak]

No, we should be winning those games because we are BETTER than Bournemouth and teams of that level. I don't know what you're trying to argue. We've not had the best squad in England for years, even under Ferguson, but we consistently won the league or challenged for it, to suggest that this current team isn't capable of challenging for honours is nonsense.

Is this team allowed to lose to anyone then? Or do you want them unbeaten?

Sir Alex is irrelevant. (a) he regularly had a top two squad (United doesn't any more) and (b) he was a magician; better than every other manager, with added stability and authority. We need to stop relating to his time, because it's over.

This current squad is not top two, probably not even clearly top four (it's about as good as Tottneham's.) Thus is will drop silly points, unless the manager has them overachieving.
Tottenham are the same, but have a manager helping them overachieve. They wont be top two for years on end because, like United, they haven't got that level of players, and they can only overachieve for so long.

This team isn't good enough to challenge for honours, unless it overachieves for a year or two. Other than that, better quality is needed, alongside a more clued up manager.

 

[Lentwood]

There are too many on here who are blinded and biased. The assessment of most of our players is way, way off. I've seen people saying things like "you don't need 22 superstars" - fine, I don't think anybody believes we do, you probably need close to 11 though at least! I've also seen people constantly saying "if this player just played in this position or in a better team" blah blah blah.....it smacks of delusion. Let's face some facts here, I'm going to evaluate our players against the very best in the world, because if thats the level we want to get back to we need to aspire to that rather than "solid enough"

De Gea - Tick

Darmian - not quick enough, not brave enough, crossing very poor, passing ropey

Shaw - Tick
Blind - not quick enough, not strong enough, not imposing enough, not a "winner", not tough enough

Smalling - not composed enough, not mentally tough enough, distribution
borders on disgraceful for a PL footballer, reliance on physical attributes at times

Schneiderlin - not good enough on the ball

Herrera - doesnt protect the ball well enough, too lightweight, not imposing enough, not physical enough, not enough key contributions in assists or goals, lacks pace and mobility

Carrick - class but legs have completely gone, means wen defend with 10 effectively

Lingard - just every single attribute of his game is below the required level. Simple. Physically poor

Depay - flashes of brilliance, he is the one I believe can still come good under the right circumstances

Martial - Tick

Mata - controversial but see Lingard. He is average, not one thing he does is good enough to deserve a place in a top side and he is physically very, very poor

Rooney - was worlds class and see flashes every now and again but his body is failing him and it's affecting his all round game. Physically Very poor

Common theme across the board is that we are very, very poor physically. Lots of slow, weak, small players. We aren't playing in La Liga, we are playing in the PL so I don't want a tika taka dwarf army it won't work.

 

[legball]

Is this team allowed to lose to anyone then? Or do you want them unbeaten?

Sir Alex is irrelevant. (a) he regularly had a top two squad (United doesn't any more) and (b) he was a magician; better than every other manager, with added stability and authority. We need to stop relating to his time, because it's over.

This current squad is not top two, probably not even clearly top four (it's about as good as Tottneham's.) Thus is will drop silly points, unless the manager has them overachieving.
Tottenham are the same, but have a manager helping them overachieve. They wont be top two for years on end because, like United, they haven't got that level of players, and they can only overachieve for so long.

This team isn't good enough to challenge for honours, unless it overachieves for a year or two. Other than that, better quality is needed, alongside a more clued up manager.

You clearly know what am talking about, but keep trying to be too clever. Whether it's by overachieving, or playing at their real level, luck, having a better manager or whatever, this United team is good enough for a top four finish, or a decent title challenge. And I am yet to see any United fan who doesn't think more quality is needed, I definitely haven't said anything like that. This players at their real level comfortably finishes top 4, at a push, they can challenge for a title with the right manager, whether that is for one or two season is irrelevant, what is relevant is that they CAN do it. Period.

 

[Winrar]

as bad as the players have been I really feel that their downfall is only emphasized by managerial incompetence.

previously highly rated players performing at high level like darmian, depay, schneiderlin, herrera, etc. have all gone to pot in 1 season under LVG. surely there's too much coincidence in assuming that all of our signings, who previously have shown class elsewhere and briefly at united have all turned out to be duds?

edit: though there are a few players who I don't think are good enough to be a first team but could nevertheless help us as a squad member e.g. lingard

 

[legball]

as bad as the players have been I really feel that their downfall is only emphasized by managerial incompetence.

previously highly rated players performing at high level like darmian, depay, schneiderlin, herrera, etc. have all gone to pot in 1 season under LVG. surely there's too much coincidence in assuming that all of our signings, who previously have shown class elsewhere and briefly at united have all turned out to be duds?

This is what I've been trying to say here, but you have lads trying to be too clever. Players that have shown their quality elsewhere came here and they're suddenly shit. I'm not having it, at all.

 

[::sonny::]

And van Gaal is responsible for some of them being there. But we do have a post Ferguson hangover in so much as he didn't leave the squad in great shape by any means and Moyes managed to simply make it worse with the signing of Fellaini - a player Lucky seems to rate given the number of games he's got this season.

But in all honesty, we have players who it has become patently obvious are not cut out for the top level, in some cases, yet, in others, ever.

So who are they?

In my opinion, they are:

Fellaini (never, ever will be good enough - loan him to AC now)
Memphis Depay (yet, but in my opinion unlikely ever to be)
Blind (never will be - too slow, much too slow)
Young (admire his effort, but before this season during which he's looked better than an awful bunch, most did wonder what he was doing in our team)
McNair (yet)
Darmian (yet)
Valencia (hasn't been for a while)
Rojo (hasn't convinced at all)
Jones (won't ever get there - good as an away supporter though)
Januzaj (a real disappointment after one decent season under would you believe it, David fecking Moyes)
Lingard (I really can't see it with this guy)

Yet Lucky plays so many of these players regularly. Obviously he can't replace them all, but he's had 3 windows now and cleared out players who perhaps he shouldn't have (Nani, Hernandez) and bought in unconvincing players. I kind of admire the giving Lindgard a go, but how long can that go on? What about Pereria? Give him a go too, please.

Our squad isn't in good shape, and add a way under performing (read: past it) Rooney, ditto Carrick, and we really aren't going anywhere positive.

A massive overhaul is needed to recover from Moyes and Lucky's feck ups. Who's the man to do it? How long will it take? Things are pretty bleak right now and will remain so for some time if you ask me.

Agreed

 

[Speak]

as bad as the players have been I really feel that their downfall is only emphasized by managerial incompetence.

previously highly rated players performing at high level like darmian, depay, schneiderlin, herrera, etc. have all gone to pot in 1 season under LVG. surely there's too much coincidence in assuming that all of our signings, who previously have shown class elsewhere and briefly at united have all turned out to be duds?

You call them highly rated, but how many of them have shown it to any high level? Mata? No. Fellaini? No.
They're all top six(ish) standard, having played for top six (or lower) teams.

Surprise surprise that they join to form a top six side, and drop silly points. The only players with any history at a high level are old and/or past it.
Why are people still complaining that top six players are playing like top six players? Is it just that nobody wants to admit the squad is further away from greatness than they wish to believe?

 

[legball]

You call them highly rated, but how many of them have shown it to any high level? Mata? No. Fellaini? No.
They're all top six(ish) standard, having played for top six (or lower) teams.

Surprise surprise that that join to form a top six side, and drop silly points. The only players with any history at a high level are old and/or past it.
Why are people still complaining that top six players are playing like top six players? Is it just that nobody wants to admit the squad is further away from greatness than they wish to believe?

You're talking rubbish now mate, "top six players because they played for top six clubs" what gibberish is this? The Chelsea team that won the league, how many of their players were signed from Barca, Real & Bayern? How many of Arsenal's players came from top clubs? You have a decent point but you're too extreme, Christ!

 

[NJM78]

as bad as the players have been I really feel that their downfall is only emphasized by managerial incompetence.

previously highly rated players performing at high level like darmian, depay, schneiderlin, herrera, etc. have all gone to pot in 1 season under LVG. surely there's too much coincidence in assuming that all of our signings, who previously have shown class elsewhere and briefly at united have all turned out to be duds?

I think you are right in that assumption but for some there is no hope and injury prone players like Jones, Valencia and Rojo should be shown the door in my opinion, even if we have to subsidize wages for a couple of years. Carrick needs to also go when his contract is up and Fellaini just needs to go.
The club needs to get ruthless for a year or two and also buy proven winners in their peak who can walk right into the side (not bloody Muller or Neymar etc but realistic targets) of course it's easier said than done and our appeal is surely wavering with each passing week but other big clubs manage to do it on a yearly basis and with a fair amount of success.
The sentiment and moral high ground we seem to be on as a club, partly due to our success over the years with youth and SAFs longevity is proving to be negative in my opinion. LvG has been a failure and his football is shite but I doubt even a dream team of Pep, Jose and Ancelloti could get this current squad winning the league and CL although each of them individually would surely have done a lot better than Louis!

 

[legball]

People can't have a middle ground it seems, if you say the team is not average = you think they're superstars. I don't understand this thinking. It's clearly not a title winning team, but it's not the shite some of you think it is. I'm done with this thread, nobody should @ me please.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

I think we have a different definition of world class. For me it's being top 5 or 6 or so in their position. At that time, RVP was arguably the best striker in the world. At this point we do not have any players of the calibre of Carrick and Vidic back in 2011, bar DDG. We have Martial and Shaw with great potential, and you could even consider not counting Shaw as he has been/will have been injured for most of this season.

He was definitely the best striker in the league that season, that is for sure. I think we'd struggle to have more than two or three players in the PL best XI at the moment let alone in the world. I still do think its an 30/70 split of the manager not having a clue how to build a team with the sum of all parts than him sticking a bag of shit players into a perfectly running machine and it not working properly.

 

[Winrar]

I think you are right in that assumption but for some there is no hope and injury prone players like Jones, Valencia and Rojo should be shown the door in my opinion, even if we have to subsidize wages for a couple of years. Carrick needs to also go when his contract is up and Fellaini just needs to go.
The club needs to get ruthless for a year or two and also buy proven winners in their peak who can walk right into the side (not bloody Muller or Neymar etc but realistic targets) of course it's easier said than done and our appeal is surely wavering with each passing week but other big clubs manage to do it on a yearly basis and with a fair amount of success.
The sentiment and moral high ground we seem to be on as a club, partly due to our success over the years with youth and SAFs longevity is proving to be negative in my opinion. LvG has been a failure and his football is shite but I doubt even a dream team of Pep, Jose and Ancelloti could get this current squad winning the league and CL although each of them would individually would surely have done a lot better than Louis!

few players I don't think are redeemable like you said e.g. felaini. but I think most players, especially summer signings, are fine at least for now even though they've underwhelmed.

I'll probably make a more proper judgment on player abilities when we get in a manager that knows what he's actually doing.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Evra, Vidic, Rio, Rooney, Carrick? Who else? Nani?

I wouldn't say Carrick has ever been world class or he would have been a mainstay in the England side. SAF was just a very good manager. He would make players feel like they were world class, even when they weren't. This manager undermines his players constantly, then he wonders why they aren't playing well.

 

[Dans]

Confidence, morale, and form play their part. Every single player we have is currently not playing to their full potential but I don't see a lot of genuinely bad players. We can use top quality in a couple of key areas but what we have now is good to excellent players playing badly for a number of reasons.

I have never said they are bad, but when you want to compare yourself with Bayern, Real and Barca then those players simply do not cut it.