He was chelsea's best player two years in a row and many were drooling over his football, calling him one of the best in the league on his position. He hasnt been his best under moyes and LVG but under good manager he is a good quality player.
We have too many players who aren't cut out for the highest level
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He was chelsea's best player two years in a row and many were drooling over his football, calling him one of the best in the league on his position. He hasnt been his best under moyes and LVG but under good manager he is a good quality player.
It's amazing how Herrera never finds himself on any of these lists.
Exactly Dembele was seen as wank not so long ago, Lamela was a disappointment for everyone Spurs fans included, Walker wank, Eriksen good but inconsistent, Kane wasn't even a thing.
Pochettino did them all, he created a team, created a framework and the players are thriving in it, that's what managers are supposed to do, build teams with what they have make the sum bigger than the parts. Currently people are judging each member of a group as the group itself that's wrong,
I think Ander would be happy to be remembered. The manager forgot that he could have been useful on Saturday.
I don't doubt he's been badly handled, but even his biggest fans (you're probably one of them) would have to admit that he's been poor when given opportunities this season. He's not the worst, but if some of the names on the OP are going to be included then Ander can't be excluded.
I'll be honest, I have a lot of doubts about him. He was very good last season when he linked up with Mata, but I've not seen much since to convince me that he can be a world class midfield player, and he isn't particularly young for the type of player he is. He's not like Carrick who plays deep and seems to have improved with age.
Nobody ever thought he was or was going to be world class, there are very view of them about and even some who are thought to be aren't. To me he is a runner in midfield, except LvG has actually stopped that as well. He can move from the midfield to link with the front man. Someone said a change of manager at United will be the best thing for him. If he was dropped and we were blowing teams off the park then fair enough, but we aren't. I screamed on Saturday when I knew he had left Michael/Morgan stinking up the midfield and then brought Memphis on to stink up the left wing. The injury to Darmain didn't help as I doubt Donald Love would have come on otherwise. Most games we seem to use a sub on a defensive injury of some sort, then it leaves us short to improve midfield/attack when we are in trouble.
McNair, Blackett, Jones, Lingard, Young, Valencia and Fellaini I'd look to rid myself of if I was the new manager this summer. Carrick will be gone when contract runs out and if a ridiculous offer came in for Rooney from China for example I'd let him go also. Too many old, injury prone and generally not good enough players. We need to inject some real quality into the squad and not just have these half decent utility types who will give 100% but are very average.
I'd build my team around De Gea (if he stays), Smalling, Shaw, Schneiderlin (who has been pretty cack but one of the best mids in league prior to joining us) and Mata (number 10 role only) and Martial.
I'd keep Herrera, Blind, Januzaj, BFS, BoJack, Rojo, Darmian, Depay, Pereira and Wilson.
Then buy 5 quality first team players.
I'd build my team around De Gea (if he stays), Smalling, Shaw, Schneiderlin (who has been pretty cack but one of the best mids in league prior to joining us) and Mata (number 10 role only) and Martial.
I'd keep Herrera, Blind, Januzaj, BFS, BoJack, Rojo, Darmian, Depay, Pereira and Wilson.
Then buy 5 quality first team players.
If are canny and can persuade the Chinese to buy Fellaini, Mata and Rooney we might just pay off the Glazers debt.
I think that's very much what Van Gaal did, we simply have too many players that are deemed to be "doomed projects".
Getting rid of Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans, Hernandez, Kagawa, Nani, Rafael, Anderson, Cleverley is exactly the type of clear out we're calling for again. It's just a huge mess.
Ha, would go a long way for sure but I dont even believe the Chinese are crazy enough to pay as much as we paid for Fellaini.
They were the days!
De Gea is only true world class player we have atm.
Martial is going to be one, as well as Shaw (hopefully injurie won't having any lasting effects on him).
Smalling is very good player who with proper guidance can get even better, but there are still some aspects of his play he needs working on.
Depay and Morgan are two players completely robbed of confidence atm so they look much worst players they really are (Morgan) or they could be (Depay).
Herrera, Bastian, Blind, Young, Mata, Rojo, Darmian, Valencia are good enough for being squad option, no way they should be first eleven choice at the club like United.
We're really in the poor state and it would be denial to think otherwise.
Martial is going to be one, as well as Shaw (hopefully injurie won't having any lasting effects on him).
Smalling is very good player who with proper guidance can get even better, but there are still some aspects of his play he needs working on.
Depay and Morgan are two players completely robbed of confidence atm so they look much worst players they really are (Morgan) or they could be (Depay).
Herrera, Bastian, Blind, Young, Mata, Rojo, Darmian, Valencia are good enough for being squad option, no way they should be first eleven choice at the club like United.
We're really in the poor state and it would be denial to think otherwise.
This is what I came here to post.
This read is making the argument that we can't compete with the top teams when it's the lower sides we lose games to.
As I have said earlier, we have bought in good squad options but not the players who are game changers. That is the managers fault for stripping the squad right back and not replacing them. He knew we get injuries in defence but was happy to make do and mend, leaving us short in other areas to play players out of position in defence. We have lost three players that way, Blind/Valencia/Young. Two of which are now of course injured. Yes it is nice to blood kids, but kids are erratic and should be brought in and out of a team, not thrown in at the deep end and have all that responsibility and at times blame put on young shoulders. I blame the manager for the majority of the problems and Ed Woodward for not getting shot of him.
Is it that he is arrogant and just thinks we can beat the lower teams easily, or that instead of imposing our game, whatever that is, on them, we are giving them far too much respect and letting them dictate to us?
The former.
I think LVG thinks our tactics or whatever they are should be good enough for these lower sides when it's just terrible. Every now and then we'll play well against a lower team and it just builds up his confidence (such as having max possession because opposition knows we can't do anything with the ball so might as well have united keep it)
It's the fact that he still hasn't figured out how to get round a packed defence. Surely by now someone should have worked that problem out? Also more often than not he lets the other team set the tempo of the game and hasn't a clue how to change it. He is clueless basically.
Doesn't his joy at that statistic just annoy the hell out of you? It does me.
Him and the fans that claim "the foundations have been laid. We have more possession of the ball now"
I would amend the complaint to include players who are not big enough, fast enough, or athletic enough for their positions at the highest level.
List of players who are too small or too slow or too old:
-Schweinsteiger
-Rooney
-Mata
-Januzaj
-Blind
-Carrick
List of players who are too small or too slow or too old:
-Schweinsteiger
-Rooney
-Mata
-Januzaj
-Blind
-Carrick
If the players were good enough they would have won the games against those sides. It's no different to West Ham fans saying they'd be in the race if they had won some of the games they've lost.
So, these players are not good enough to beat Sunderland now??... We won the title few years back with cleverley and Anderson in midfield. Were they in any way good enough for United???... Yet they won the title because of the manager. It all boils down to the manager in the end.
No mate,
Clearly they're all shit, no if's or buts about it, best bin them all and buy another 250mill worth of players,
Seems the only logical choice to the Caf.
Last time we won the league we had a peak RVP, Rooney, Carrick, Rio (in team of the year). While not all at their peak we still had proven winners and characters in the squad like Evra, Scholes, Vidic, Giggs, Fletcher, Rafael, Welbeck. Hernandez providing goals when needed.
Take the rose tinted glasses off and ask yourself where that sort of quality and character is now? Martial, De Gea, Smalling maybe but the team on Sunday had players like CBJ, Lingard, Darmian, Love, 35 year old Carrick, a declining Rooney. It's incomparable to title challenging squads of the past. You are correct that it's all on the manager for putting together this squad and thinking it was good enough.
Agree with this 100%
Leicester have done so well because Ranieri has set them up to play to their strengths. In these days of false 9's and inverted wingers, there's a lot to be said for that.
Round pegs in round holes etc.
I would like to add Lingard and Memphis to that list. They are too slow to be wingers at a top club. And they don't have the trickery or dribbling skills to make up for it.
Excatly this, other than Martial not one of arrivals had a major imapact on our play, still we rely on Rooney, Mata and Carrick who were already here and what's worst all of them are on major decline. Oh and LVG with his philospohy made even those players capable of some contribution unrecognisable (Morgan, Bastian, Herrera, Depay). Woodward is all about making cash from sponsorhip deals, his dealing with transfers is shambolic!
I think DDG, Martial and Smalling would be the only three. Whilst Lloris is a very good keeper he's not on the same level as DDG.
Shaw, if not for his injury, would most likely have truly established himself as one of the top young LB's in Europe, but aside from those four there isn't much competition between the XI at this point in time.
Schneiderlin of season's past would be another, though he's been underwhelming since the move for whatever reason.
I've already expressed my opinion on what i think of these kind of culls but you make a further point here of why they shouldn't happen.
You're exactly right that we do need a spine of top talent, it'd say we have 3 in De Gea, Smalling, Martial already but we certainly need reinforcements in midfield and up front.
Your second point that that team was full of experienced trophy winners is the reason we shouldn't be getting rid of the likes of Young, Valencia, Jones, Mata, Rooney. They provide experience even if they're not top performers.
Unless we stop fecking around with breaking up the squad and inject some RvP like quality I can see us being left with only Smalling as a premier league winner within a couple of seasons.
I think we have too many people in managerial roles, who aren't cut out for the highest level.
How many players have Leicester got who aren't cut out for the highest level?
My point is we are not getting the best from the players we do have or even close to it.Surely thats down to bad management?
My point is we are not getting the best from the players we do have or even close to it.Surely thats down to bad management?
Exactly. The buck stops with the management and coaches. We have some decent players. I also think Rooney, Mata and Carrick are not doing anything to lead the team as senior players. There are a lot of new players who are relatively new to this country and young players who need guidance.
Leicester aren't playing/winning at the highest level, though. Why are they being used as an example? They might win one league title. That's it. That's not the 'highest level'.
As for the rest: Yes, the manager isn't getting the most out of the players, but the squad still isn't good enough. Both are issues that need addressing.
Not even sure the squad aren't good enough, more that the so called senior players have no backbone and leadership qualities. Leadership is one of the things missing. We have a captain who is sucking up to the manager at every chance and after Saturday has waved a white flag. Disgraceful from a captain at this stage of the season.
I agree with this except I keep Lingard for another season as he has potential and might turn the corner.
Don't agree with the premise of the thread at all. I'd argue we've more players than can cut it at the highest level than we've had in about six years. Our problem is how they're being played/instructed.
He's good for a goal it seems but I just find him woefully short technically.
Maybe I'm being harsh but he's definitely not first team material.
He shows very good technical skills at times, the consistency isn't there though. This could be attributed to his age and new surroundings. If he settles in we might see more consistency. I would just hate to give up on him after one short season in the first team.
I've been saying this for months there's a reason we can't beat teams like Bournemouth, Sunderland and Norwich.
It's because our team is full of lower than average players.
3 players deserve their place now and it's De Gea, CBJ and martial that's it, the rest of the squad can feck off
It's because our team is full of lower than average players.
3 players deserve their place now and it's De Gea, CBJ and martial that's it, the rest of the squad can feck off