We desperately need a right back

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When fit and in form Coleman's no better than Rafa, IMO. It's the first part of that sentence that kills Rafa, though.

Fwiw, even as a proud Irishman, I think Coleman can be really ropey defensively.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
On the contrary selling their valuable players while being in a bit of a mire would go to no end in antagonizing the fans as it appears kind of a delicate situation down there with Martinez pleading for time in the media. I doubt they'd sell till summer. I expected Van Gaal to pull some value signings from Germany or Holland for the full back/defensive slots. Luke Shaw is brilliant and worth spending on, I cannot say the same for Coleman.
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If they used the money to buy a couple of players in January who would help them, then selling Coleman for more than he is worth to United would be fine by the Everton fans I'm sure.
 
Brophs said:
When fit and in form Coleman's no better than Rafa, IMO. It's the first part of that sentence that kills Rafa, though.

Fwiw, even as a proud Irishman, I think Coleman can be really ropey defensively.
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Agree there but there isn't many "modern day" full backs who aren't.

One thing he does have over Rafa is he's less rash in the tackle.
 
Brophs said:
When fit and in form Coleman's no better than Rafa, IMO. It's the first part of that sentence that kills Rafa, though.

Fwiw, even as a proud Irishman, I think Coleman can be really ropey defensively.
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That's not a big problem since Shaw is a lot better defensively, we could easily find a good balance in a back four with Shaw and Coleman.
 
Kag said:
Our scouts should be showing their worth at full back, I reckon.
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This! Why can't our scouts find a Zabaleta, Ivanovic or Azpilicueta? Some people make it sound like City and Chelsea simply went out and bought top quality which is only half the truth. They built an amazing core based on shrewd signings like the aforementioned three plus Kompany and to a lesser extent Kolarov and Demichelis. We rarely seem to be pulling off those signing lately for some reason, it's always a British upcoming talent who everybody have identified already or a finished article for a lot of money.
 
Theonas said:
This! Why can't our scouts find a Zabaleta, Ivanovic or Azpilicueta? Some people make it sound like City and Chelsea simply went out and bought top quality which is only half the truth. They built an amazing core based on shrewd signings like the aforementioned three plus Kompany and to a lesser extent Kolarov and Demichelis. We rarely seem to be pulling off those signing lately for some reason, it's always a British upcoming talent who everybody have identified already or a finished article for a lot of money.
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All the player you mentioned were well indentified, none of them are discoveries.
 
What a surprise that a broken cheek bone is hailed by the caf as further evidence of Rafael being injury prone. He may have had plenty of previous issues, but this one is poor bad luck, and has no relevance other than our short-term lack of options at RB.
 
JPRouve said:
All the player you mentioned were well identified, none of them are discoveries.
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I didn't say they were discoveries but they certainly were far from established finished articles and they came cheap which is the point that I am making. Lately, we have been incapable of making those types of signings. It's either an English player from the league which I think you would agree takes less scouting or an established name for a lot of money.
 
Sir A1ex said:
What a surprise that a broken cheek bone is hailed by the caf as further evidence of Rafael being injury prone. He may have had plenty of previous issues, but this one is poor bad luck, and has no relevance other than our short-term lack of options at RB.
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Problem is though that it's always him with that bad luck, even if it trully is bad luck just right now. He just came back from an injury just to get injured and be out again, it's pretty laughable. He'd be the first one on my transfer list to flog, as much as I like him he's just unreliable. Same goes for Smalling and Jones if their injury records go on. We're generally speaking pretty injury prone, the whole squad that is, but those three feckers (4 if you include Evans) are always injured.

Coleman will take bousands of quid to pay, Everton will milk us, SOTON might not be willing to sell Clyne if we go for him. No other options come to my mind right now sadly, I think we're bound to pay over the odds for both.
 
Theonas said:
I didn't say they were discoveries but they certainly were far from established finished articles and they came cheap which is the point that I am making. Lately, we have been incapable of making those types of signings. It's either an English player from the league which I think you would agree takes less scouting or an established name for a lot of money.
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These players were known but most of the times big clubs refuse to purchase them, because it's a risk, Chelsea and Man city did it when they weren't at their best.
 
JPRouve said:
These players were known but most of the times big clubs refuse to purchase them, because it's a risk, Chelsea and Man city did it when they weren't at their best.
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That is just plain wrong. Big clubs buy those players all the time. We always did, Bayern bought Boateng, Dante, Bernat, Mandzukic. Madrid bought Carvajal and Marcelo and there are plenty of other examples. I am not even mentioning the failed signings here. You make it sound as though the big clubs only invest in establish world class players when that is not only factually incorrect but actually impossible.
 
Theonas said:
That is just plain wrong. Big clubs buy those players all the time. We always did, Bayern bought Boateng, Dante, Bernat, Mandzukic. Madrid bought Carvajal and Marcelo and there are plenty of other examples. I am not even mentioning the failed signings here. You make it sound as though the big clubs only invest in establish world class players when that is not only factually incorrect but actually impossible.
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Not when they are supposed to be starters.

The players that you mentioned for Bayern respect our own strategy, buy promising or confirmed players in our own league, so wrong examples.
As for Bernat and Marcelo, they weren't starters at all and Marcelo was very young.
And at last Carvajal was a Real Madrid player sent at Leverkusen to gain some playing time, which explains the very low return clause.
 
Brophs said:
When fit and in form Coleman's no better than Rafa, IMO. It's the first part of that sentence that kills Rafa, though.

Fwiw, even as a proud Irishman, I think Coleman can be really ropey defensively.
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Sorry but what does fwiw mean?
 
You have to ask if Rafeal will ever actually be our main right back. It seems like we've been waiting now since 2009. If its not his form, its his injuries. I think he's a cracking player, as evident by that 2012-13 season where he was one of the players of the season. But Louis Van Gaal doesn't seem the type to wait around for players to step it up if he's got money to spend. If there is a better right back available, I totally see us going for it. This is a big 5 months for Raf.

And he's Brazillian. He's only 3 years away before he discovers a strict diet of cake.
 
FujiVice said:
You have to ask if Rafeal will ever actually be our main right back. It seems like we've been waiting now since 2009.
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6 years. Jesus, when you put it like that it really is ridiculous.
 
JPRouve said:
Not when they are supposed to be starters.

The players that you mentioned for Bayern respect our own strategy, buy promising or confirmed players in our own league, so wrong examples.
As for Bernat and Marcelo, they weren't starters at all and Marcelo was very young.
And at last Carvajal was a Real Madrid player sent at Leverkusen to gain some playing time, which explains the very low return clause.
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I really think we are talking about the same thing. Teams invest in players who are not established, some times those players prove to be a success, some times they don't. Over the past few seasons, I think we either did not do that enough or that it was unsuccessful. Hence, I was referring to our scouting not performing well enough compared to those other clubs. Why didn't we identify someone like Azpilicueta or Zabaleta. Out equivalent was Rafael, Fabio and Büttner and before that Evra and Vidic. The point is that over the past 5 years or so, our success rate with those types of signing has been below par.
 
Theonas said:
I really think we are talking about the same thing. Teams invest in players who are not established, some times those players prove to be a success, some times they don't. Over the past few seasons, I think we either did not do that enough or that it was unsuccessful. Hence, I was referring to our scouting not performing well enough compared to those other clubs. Why didn't we identify someone like Azpilicueta or Zabaleta. Out equivalent was Rafael, Fabio and Büttner and before that Evra and Vidic. The point is that over the past 5 years or so, our success rate with those types of signing has been below par.
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United had an established team, and as i already told you, big teams only gambles when they are in complicated situations, that's what we did this summer with Rojo, Herrera or Blind.

Our scouts are alright, the problem is with the decision makers they are the one who overlook the reports, it is known that United scouts rated Herrera, Zouma, Varane, Thiago, Bender, etc...

But when the team is established like our in the last 6 years, you don't see this kind of transfers, often.
 
JPRouve said:
United had an established team, and as i already told you, big teams only gambles when they are in complicated situations, that's what we did this summer with Rojo, Herrera or Blind.

Our scouts are alright, the problem is with the decision makers they are the one who overlook the reports, it is known that United scouts rated Herrera, Zouma, Varane, Thiago, Bender, etc...

But when the team is established like our in the last 6 years, you don't see this kind of transfers, often.
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I am not sure I agree with you there as I think after Ronaldo we left, we had a good team but not what I would call established. The 2007-2009 generation was but the team after that was just below that level. We did invest then to improve and I think that investment right failed more than it succeeded. I think you're right however when you talk about it being more of an issue to do with decision makers rather than scouts. I think you have a point there in the sense that Fergie and David Gill simply did not feel confident about spending a lot of money on foreign non-established players
 
Kostur said:
Problem is though that it's always him with that bad luck, even if it trully is bad luck just right now. He just came back from an injury just to get injured and be out again, it's pretty laughable. He'd be the first one on my transfer list to flog, as much as I like him he's just unreliable. Same goes for Smalling and Jones if their injury records go on. We're generally speaking pretty injury prone, the whole squad that is, but those three feckers (4 if you include Evans) are always injured.
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True, but I can't help but worry that we'd just turn whoever else we bought into a crock. Look at Shaw!
 
Sir A1ex said:
True, but I can't help but worry that we'd just turn whoever else we bought into a crock. Look at Shaw!
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I think Rafael brings a lot of the injuries upon himself with his committed style of play. Same goes for Jones. If we signed a more conservative defender they're less likely to get injured. Look at Evra, he rarely got stuck in, was still a quality defender and never got injured.
 
Sir A1ex said:
True, but I can't help but worry that we'd just turn whoever else we bought into a crock. Look at Shaw!
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Yup, that's a worry that I'm starting to have as well. Shaw had close to perfect injury record prior to coming to us (just a couple of days out while playing 2 years in EPL), ADM is constantly injured as well, it's really a big, big worry.
 
Pexbo said:
I think Rafael brings a lot of the injuries upon himself with his committed style of play. Same goes for Jones. If we signed a more conservative defender they're less likely to get injured. Look at Evra, he rarely got stuck in, was still a quality defender and never got injured.
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I would never call Evra conservative
 
Can we sort this out and just sign Srna? He may be 32 but you get experience, a rock of a defender, hes not injury prone.. oh and hes cheap.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
I would never call Evra conservative
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He was in terms of getting stuck in. He was an expert at ushering the attacking winger onto his weaker foot into an area he wanted him to be rather than the attacker wanted to be.

Rafael is more of urgent about removing the ball from the opposition.
 
Pexbo said:
He was in terms of getting stuck in. He was an expert at ushering the attacking winger onto his weaker foot into an area he wanted him to be rather than the attacker wanted to be.

Rafael is more of urgent about removing the ball from the opposition.
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Ah, i thought you meant in an attacking sense. He certainly doesnt/didnt dive in so much.
 
Lynk said:
6 years. Jesus, when you put it like that it really is ridiculous.
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Way too long. And it's a recurring theme during our relative decline ie players threatening to consistently deliver but ultimately disappointing. At a tier below the highest level you cannot move for players who on their day are top class. But it's about more than that it's about producing top class performances week in week out and over more than one season as well. If you're looking to hit the heights players who can't sustain consistent top class performances because of ridiculous dips in form or lengthy spells on the treatment table need shipping out. Consistency and stability are key and we've suffered for a lack of it in crucial areas and Rafael is as culpable as anyone.
 
Barca84 said:
Way too long. And it's a recurring theme during our relative decline ie players threatening to consistently deliver but ultimately disappointing.
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Agreed with that.

Rafael, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Cleverley, Anderson, Nani, Kagawa could all be included there. Kagawa a little less then the rest.

Valencia actually did produce quality for 18-24 months. Young was proven at Villa. So I won't add the 2 of them.
 
RyRy11 said:
Can we sort this out and just sign Srna? He may be 32 but you get experience, a rock of a defender, hes not injury prone.. oh and hes cheap.
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Good shout, club captain and im sure he's national captain too? Would bring a football brain which Rafael doesn't seem to have at times...
 
If our scouts have been in Belgium recently, Thomas Meunier should be on our list of possible RB's.

He's been immense and would be a great fit imo. Still only 23 years old (and a Man Utd fan)
Meunier is a converted striker/winger who has adapted very well to the right back position, while he's also more than capable of playing as a wingback.
His main attribute is his incredible stamina (causes a lot of problems with constant runs down the wing), he has good pace and is solid defensively. Positioning isn't always perfect though, as is the case with even the best (offensive) right backs in the world.
He's not a great header of the ball, but is tall enough (1.90m) to have the aerial advantage over most wingers.

I don't think we should be signing an older and established right back like Srna or Alves. Fullbacks tend to regress a lot in quality once they reach 31-32 due to the high physical demand of that position. Certainly when looking at the rest of our team, we really need the pace and energy at fullback/wingback.

Of course Coleman has proven his worth in the PL, which is a completely different level to the Belgian league, but I really believe someone like Meunier (who also is 3 years younger) could easily reach the same level, while he won't cost a fortune (so far at least, if he moves to Napoli that could change)
 
So apart from Clyne, Coleman, Danilo, Mario Fernandes, Dani Alves and Srna there aren't really many good right-backs to sign around? Can't say I'm overly impressed with that list. Coleman hasn't been as good as last season. Clyne has obviously improved this season. Whether Danilo, Mario Fernandes and Srna are actually good enough is questionable.
 
Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but Dani Alves is out of contract at the end of the season. Could be a good stop-gap for a couple of years.
 
Oaencha said:
Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but Dani Alves is out of contract at the end of the season. Could be a good stop-gap for a couple of years.
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I've just finished watching the highlights of Sociedad Barca, where at one point Canales turns him inside out and leaves him on his arse. Doubt that would have happened a few years ago.
 
bucky said:
So apart from Clyne, Coleman, Danilo, Mario Fernandes, Dani Alves and Srna there aren't really many good right-backs to sign around?
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I'd get Clyne from that list. He will be England's right back for the next 5-10 years imo. Might cost £20m, but would be worth it. If LVG wants to stick with 352 then I'd be OK with Valencia and Rafael and spend the money elsewhere.
 
Ive been back and forth on Clyne. I'm starting to think the best criteria on selecting one is their fitness record(although watch them come to United and get croked none the less). Get this individual give 35 out of 38 league games?
 
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