We are lacking that Star man/Match winner!

If it was up to me we'd be buying a world class forward and just taking Rooney out the starting 11, but clearly that isn't going to happen, so it'll be one of the wide spots. Bale or Reus please.
 
At what point do we stop spending on new players and give the existing ones some time to prove what they can do?

We've sold the likes of Nani, RvP and are now letting go of AdM. Did they get enough chances? Was it necessary to kick them out? AdM/Nani could've been giving chances on the wing. We wouldn't be crying for a new striker if RvP and Rooney were the first two, followed up by Wilson, Depay and Januzaj. I hate the way LVG wants to upgrade everything without giving the current squad some time to improve or shine. This is a vicious cycle, and absolutely unnecessary. He's trying to jump from 7th to CL achievement with a boost of mega money in two years. I think we need time to settle down at each step along the way to get there. Stabilize at CL first.

Blind ambition backed spending. Hate it. I can't identify with the team anymore if there are 6 new players on the field. Will they keep changing every year? Are they all mercenaries?
 
Moyes said the same not long into his reign. Think he spoke more broadly on winning the Champions League.

Problem that's been years in the making. Shame it's taken so much cash already gone for it to be properly declared.
 
Mali_Zeus said:
Well as I said you're not the only one who have mentioned it.
Also are you sure he's paid Messi/Ronaldo kind of money.
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I said reportedly. And I don't think k it would be fair to suggest that I've plucked 300k out of mid air, even if it isn't the final figure. It's what was widely reported, and from what I've read, is in a similar ball park to Messi and Ronaldo. I'd imagine one of the top 5 in the world, or at least in Europe.
 
Rozay said:
I said reportedly. And I don't think k it would be fair to suggest that I've plucked 300k out of mid air, even if it isn't the final figure. It's what was widely reported, and from what I've read, is in a similar ball park to Messi and Ronaldo. I'd imagine one of the top 5 in the world, or at least in Europe.
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Did I suggest you 'plucked 300k out of mid air'?
I just asked are you sure he's paid Messi/Ronaldo kind of money? Im not so sure.
 
Boycott said:
Moyes said the same not long into his reign. Think he spoke more broadly on winning the Champions League.

Problem that's been years in the making. Shame it's taken so much cash already gone for it to be properly declared.
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Yep, it's been years in the making. 2009, to be exact, when we sold Ronaldo. What Fergie was thinking bringing in the likes of Valencia and Owen after that I'd never know. We addressed this briefly when we brought in Persie, but the problem wasn't resolved for long enough.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
At what point do we stop spending on new players and give the existing ones some time to prove what they can do?

We've sold the likes of Nani, RvP and are now letting go of AdM. Did they get enough chances? Was it necessary to kick them out? AdM/Nani could've been giving chances on the wing. We wouldn't be crying for a new striker if RvP and Rooney were the first two, followed up by Wilson, Depay and Januzaj. I hate the way LVG wants to upgrade everything without giving the current squad some time to improve or shine. This is a vicious cycle, and absolutely unnecessary. He's trying to jump from 7th to CL achievement with a boost of mega money in two years. I think we need time to settle down at each step along the way to get there. Stabilize at CL first.

Blind ambition backed spending. Hate it. I can't identify with the team anymore if there are 6 new players on the field. Will they keep changing every year? Are they all mercenaries?
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Team needed rebuilding, needed new players and we've done that. Nani got more than enough chances, RVP is not the old RVP and ADM wants out.
Current squad needed few more players and still does. Its not that LVG just goes around buying wc players just for the sake of it.
 
Mali_Zeus said:
Did I suggest you 'plucked 300k out of mid air'?
I just asked are you sure he's paid Messi/Ronaldo kind of money? Im not so sure.
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Ignore Messi/Ronaldo - he is being paid the same as or more than Neymar/Suarez/Aguerro and the manager still thinks we need a player like one of those 3 cos we dont have one in the team.
 
Sam said:
We also have the most expensive squad in the league, and no world class attacker. Its all a bit of a shambles in all honestly.

At least we've finally sorted that god damn midfield.
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I agree, we have a weird way of spending money or at least we had, and the squad is still some very good signings away from being up there with the best despite having spend alot of dough.

Let's see what we can do in the next month of the transfer window, maybe Woody have a surprise for us all, it's all about getting back to where we belong.
 
Mali_Zeus said:
Did I suggest you 'plucked 300k out of mid air'?
I just asked are you sure he's paid Messi/Ronaldo kind of money? Im not so sure.
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Nope you didn't. Although my understanding is Messi and Ronaldo are paid around 300k+, and you did question my statement that Rooney is paid at a similar level to them, so I chose to defend my claim that Rooney earns 300k, which would then mean he is paid similarly to them, which is what you did actually question, unless they make 400k+ a week, which to my understanding, they don't, not in salary anyway.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Bale is certainly at that level or could be for us anyway, Cavani is maybe not but he is no doubt a big name, Reus could easily be one.

By your reckoning the only ones out there are Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez etc, which are obviously not going to happening, we need one from just below that stature but is still a huge name and will become our Messi etc. ADM could have been it but just didn't have the stomach to see if it could happen sadly.
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I believe Bale could be for us, under Ferguson but don't see how he'd work under Van Gaals system ( I could though be totally wrong and he could be the piece LVG is after to finish his set up). Galactico to me means Ronaldo, Messi, Zidanes, original Ronaldo, Pele, Marradonna, Cruyff, Best etc players who stand head and shoulders over all other in their position in the world.
 
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Gandalf Greyhame said:
At what point do we stop spending on new players and give the existing ones some time to prove what they can do?

We've sold the likes of Nani, RvP and are now letting go of AdM. Did they get enough chances? Was it necessary to kick them out? AdM/Nani could've been giving chances on the wing. We wouldn't be crying for a new striker if RvP and Rooney were the first two, followed up by Wilson, Depay and Januzaj. I hate the way LVG wants to upgrade everything without giving the current squad some time to improve or shine. This is a vicious cycle, and absolutely unnecessary. He's trying to jump from 7th to CL achievement with a boost of mega money in two years. I think we need time to settle down at each step along the way to get there. Stabilize at CL first.

Blind ambition backed spending. Hate it. I can't identify with the team anymore if there are 6 new players on the field. Will they keep changing every year? Are they all mercenaries?
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When was Nani's last good season?

RVP had two poor years, the decline was obvious. He's got very poor mobility these days and Van Gaal told him he wouldn't be first choice - he didn't want to spend his last years on the bench.

Di Maria wants to leave because he's a spineless prick with absolutely zero fight in him. Good riddance.


Just look at Young and Fellaini as examples of what a great attitude and hard work will get you under Van Gaal. Stupid to suggest he doesn't give players the chance.


I also abhor the term "not given enough chances". You don't just say "well I will give him 10 full games to show what he is capable of". You train them every single day and if they show you they have what it takes then they earn their spot. If they aren't training particularly well and their numbers aren't adding up then you make a decision.
 
Muller, Reus or De Bruyne would be excellent additions and I'd expect Bale to make a big impact too. Ronaldo is Ronaldo, he's a phenomenon, and I still think Gotze has a big future ahead of him. However other than De Bruyne, I don't think any of those players are available this summer and the Belgian is probably headed for Bayern/City. We either opt for a lesser talent like Pedro or take a punt on someone like Felipe Anderson. The former appears more likely at the moment.
 
Rozay said:
Nope you didn't. Although my understanding is Messi and Ronaldo are paid around 300k+, and you did question my statement that Rooney is paid at a similar level to them, so I chose to defend my claim that Rooney earns 300k, which would then mean he is paid similarly to them, which is what you did actually question, unless they make 400k+ a week, which to my understanding, they don't, not in salary anyway.
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So first you said I didnt ask if Rooney is paid Messi/Ronaldo kind of money and then you said I did ask that..


Mali_Zeus said:
Well as I said you're not the only one who have mentioned it.
Also are you sure he's paid Messi/Ronaldo kind of money.
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This was my question, exactly the same as the 2nd one.
 
For all the issues ofbalance etc, I think we are literally just this one player away from winning the title. If we had a consistent game changer, granted we could have still done with the midfielders - but I reckon we could still have competed with Valencia, Jones and Smalling in defence. It is the lack of a recognised match winner that really separates us from the top teams. When you look past the Galacticos, you see that not everyone else is all that in their sides.
 
Mali_Zeus said:
So first you said I didnt ask if Rooney is paid Messi/Ronaldo kind of money and then you said I did ask that..



This was my question, exactly the same as the 2nd one.
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You asked me whether you said I plucked 300k out of thin air, which of course you didn't. I then said what you actually did say, and then explained my response to that, is all.
 
Mali_Zeus said:
Team needed rebuilding, needed new players and we've done that. Nani got more than enough chances, RVP is not the old RVP and ADM wants out.
Current squad needed few more players and still does. Its not that LVG just goes around buying wc players just for the sake of it.
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Pexbo said:
When was Nani's last good season?

RVP had two poor years, the decline was obvious. He's got very poor mobility these days and Van Gaal told him he wouldn't be first choice - he didn't want to spend his last years on the bench.

Di Maria wants to leave because he's a spineless prick with absolutely zero fight in him. Good riddance.


Just look at Young and Fellaini as examples of what a great attitude and hard work will get you under Van Gaal. Stupid to suggest he doesn't give players the chance.


I also abhor the term "not given enough chances". You don't just say "well I will give him 10 full games to show what he is capable of". You train them every single day and if they show you they have what it takes then they earn their spot. If they aren't training particularly well and their numbers aren't adding up then you make a decision.
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Nani did not get a chance under Van Gaal, is what I meant. The judgement was very quick for some of his players.
RVP might not get 20 goals a season anymore, but he could still clock quite a few with the kind of service being given. Without finding a replacement or seeing how he'd perform after an injury-plagued and Falcao-infested last season which was off a WC with little preseason, he was ushered out unceremoniously.
AdM's got no balls. Well, we all know what LVG did the last time someone said that - asked them, quite dramatically, to grow a pair. As for his unwillingness to stay and do that - do you really think Di Maria will not fight for a first team spot at al? Or that even if he's not firing on all cylinders, he can still give a better output in terms of numbers than Young? We spent the British record fee on him ffs. Let him show what he can do. Will getting back the money get a guaranteed better replacement? After we move from this Real reject in di Maria to the Barcelona reject in Pedro, what if he doesn't deliver? Sell him off, too?

You talk of Young and Fellaini's hard work and attitude are their key attributes. But if they are the only attributes to get you selected into a starting eleven, then we might have bought Milner for what it's worth. If if you sulk a bit, or are a bit lazy, outstanding skill and talent and ability to create magic should be good enough to get you a chance. Great managers accomodate all sorts of players in their teams. LVG's rigidity is too expensive and unstable.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
At what point do we stop spending on new players and give the existing ones some time to prove what they can do?

We've sold the likes of Nani, RvP and are now letting go of AdM. Did they get enough chances? Was it necessary to kick them out? AdM/Nani could've been giving chances on the wing. We wouldn't be crying for a new striker if RvP and Rooney were the first two, followed up by Wilson, Depay and Januzaj. I hate the way LVG wants to upgrade everything without giving the current squad some time to improve or shine. This is a vicious cycle, and absolutely unnecessary. He's trying to jump from 7th to CL achievement with a boost of mega money in two years. I think we need time to settle down at each step along the way to get there. Stabilize at CL first.

Blind ambition backed spending. Hate it. I can't identify with the team anymore if there are 6 new players on the field. Will they keep changing every year? Are they all mercenaries?
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At the point when Young's best season revolved around scoring two goals and assisting five. That's not good enough. Nani had a lot of chances but towards the end his head was elsewhere. AdM wanted away despite LVG declaring his preference of keeping him. All in all he has cut his losses and trimmed down the squad of deadwood. The midfield has been addressed which is about 3-4 years too late and we are now forced to splash big.

In the end, LVG is strictly following orders from the top, which is "get back into CL" and is given the necessary tools to achieve that. Settling down is something we'll do, I'm sure of it, but right now there are far more important priorities which he has to answer to.
 
Rozay said:
For all the issues ofbalance etc, I think we are literally just this one player away from winning the title. If we had a consistent game changer, granted we could have still done with the midfielders - but I reckon we could still have competed with Valencia, Jones and Smalling in defence. It is the lack of a recognised match winner that really separates us from the top teams. When you look past the Galacticos, you see that not everyone else is all that in their sides.
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Agreed. To win the league, you just simply need to score goals (duhh..): a draw means 1 pt, while win equals 3 pts. It's a different animal with Champions League, which defence is more important that attack (Barca is the exception. Even then, they can still be defeated by a lesser but organized team).

Like Suarez did in his last season with Liverpool, we need a flat track bullies who can score for fun against 'lesser' teams. Scoring against 'top four' is a bonus.
 
Obviously with the Neymar/Young comment and the mention of Hazard everyone is thinking he'll go for a left side attacker, but he also mentions Aguero and Suarez so he could go for a player to go behind Rooney and move Memphis to the left.
 
There are very few game changing attacking players out there and it is extremely hard to bring any of them in either because they dont want to come or we cant afford them. The one signing we have truly missed out on imo and one of SAF's biggest blunders is Hazard. Absolutely sensational player such a pity he plays for Plastic & Co.

Thinking about it now its really bad that we dont have one or two of the top players in the world in our squad. Di Maria was one but hes off to PSG and Rooney is simply not on that level anymore.
 
Bit late coming back to this thread but thank you to all who recognized my genius.
 
it's a funny game when the likes of Rooney and Mata aren't considered match winners anymore!
 
Sandikan said:
it's a funny game when the likes of Rooney and Mata aren't considered match winners anymore!
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It's fair to say that about Rooney but Mata can feel a bit aggrieved given what he did at anfield.
 
m1tch said:
It's fair to say that about Rooney but Mata can feel a bit aggrieved given what he did at anfield.
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I love Mata - but I think he needs to produce more of what he did at Liverpool on a consistent basis. We seriously lack someone that performs well on a consistent basis. Rooney especially seems to drift in and out of games over the whole course of a season. We need more than that. It's like there's a lack of urgency and intensity in our squad which I can't quite comprehend. That more than anything is what I think is holding us back.
 
Jazz said:
I love Mata - but I think he needs to produce more of what he did at Liverpool on a consistent basis. We seriously lack someone that performs well on a consistent basis. Rooney especially seems to drift in and out of games over the whole course of a season. We need more than that. It's like there's a lack of urgency and intensity in our squad which I can't quite comprehend. That more than anything is what I think is holding us back.
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I do think that we can get more from Mata, but when you look at the stats since he joined (16 goals in 32 starts) then he's not got off to a bad start.
 
m1tch said:
I do think that we can get more from Mata, but when you look at the stats since he joined (16 goals in 32 starts) then he's not got off to a bad start.
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No I agree he hasn't had a bad start. I just would like a bit more - not only from him - but from all the lads.
 
World class pace and creativity. I can't think of a single available player that would fit the bill...
 
Mata gets a bit of unfair treatment because he's a technical small player and instantly people think someone who controls the game and tempo a la Silva. But Mata isn't that player. He is all about end product. The final pass or scoring the goal. And his statistics show he is pretty damn impressive at that. With a proper midfield behind him, and if we do manage to bring in a wide pacey player, Mata could really shine. I already think in the coming months he will form a real partnership with Depay dependent on their respective game time.
 
It's easy to forget that Mata (and many other players) were being played out of position last season in order to accomodate LVG's system as well as our lack of suitable players in all positions. I think that under those circumstances; Mata, Fellaini, Herrera (to an extent), Rooney (who was often played in midfield because of the protection he provided to the CBs) played well.

I really hope Rooney can step up this season because he really needs to now. I'd love a new striker alongside him but it's a very fine balance because you don't want to completely restrict the progression of our young attackers (Januzaj, Pereira, Lingard, Wilson) and also I dont want to see players like Mata benched to accomodate another striker who'll invariably be shunted out wide into his position. I really like Mata. He's an excellent player... And if we're not going to play him in his best position (no. 10) then the next best place is wide right cutting inside. He shouldn't be played in midfield because he's a liability there IMO (only because we have better defensive minded players) and we're stocked in that position now.

Also... I've heard Wayne's paid between £250-300k (depending on the source) but i dont think any of them really know unless the player or club catagorically share this information which seems unlikely. Even if he does get paid similar to Messi and Ronaldo; he probably justifies this because of the amount of money he brings in through marketing. Rooney is the face of a lot of United's marketing campaigns and he was even before he was captain. He may not be as good as Messi and Ronaldo (who is?) but he's right there in the next bracket down and there's no doubting his ability to help sell shirts.
 
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