We are an awfully coached team

[red woppit]

Players is one thing, but setting up the team to consistently play with two holding midfielders against the likes of West Brom and Shef Utd is not going to win league titles. I have a feeling he is doing it to protect the CB's from being exposed, but then that begs the question why didnt we sign a CB, both are crap

Good points.
We don't really know if we were in for a CB in the summer, but with having 7 CB's on the books, I would think that Ed would have told Ole to get rid of 3 or 4 before he would sanction another CB. It is patently obvious that we are poor in those positions. Maguire is a good, solid CB, but no pace, and seems to slow our play down a lot, Lindelof, to me, is not a CB for the Prem, too passive. (Bailly is the best CB we have, but his injury issues are getting too much now. I hope he stays fit until the end of the season).
With having these type of players at the back, we tend to stay too deep, which means our midfield is stretched too far, enabling other teams to play in the spaces.
With Bailly, or a quicker CB in the team, we could condense the play into a smaller area, thereby cutting down the space.
One of our major flaws is the slowness in our attacks, so many times we get a good ball into one of our forwards, but instead of our midfield, or full backs, overlapping, or making runs forward, we play the ball backwards to our defenders, which enables our opponents to get numbers back.
I think the fundamental problem with our team is fear. I wish Ole would tell them just to go for it more.
I can't wait for Diallo and Mejbri to get established in the team (and possibly one or two of Garner, Hugill, Elanga, Mengi and Pellistri) and with a top CB and a more proactive GK, and a policy of moving the ball forward quicker, we could be there or thereabouts in the title race and CL.

 

[Anustart89]

Yeah, it is obvious that against sides whose tactics is launch it to big men up front, you need a goalie who is confident taking crosses. Also if you are going to have a slow CB, you need a quick skillful one next to him. If you do not have wingers, your fullbacks have to be capable of doing that job instead.

The biggest problem, with regards to the first bit, is that every bloody side in the league have made it their tactic against us to launch crosses in because our keeper is that weak in the air, and has a reputation for being weak in the air so referees avoid giving him the same protection as other keepers, so it just becomes a double punishment.

The de Gea situation is Ole's equivalent to Moyes and Rooney. A big, overpaid, problem that can make or break a managerial tenure, and instead of putting Henderson in there and telling him to sink or swim, he's just making the decision even harder down the line. We know that de Gea's not getting better and isn't going to cut it going forward, but if we try Henderson and he doesn't perform well enough, then we need to add a new goalkeeper to the list. If we don't give Henderson a shot, we're just pushing the problem ahead of us, and the worst case scenario is that Henderson turns out to be good enough but for another club while we keep playing de Gea.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Come on. Pep surely does improve players despite the spending jibes. Sterling, Stones, KDB, just so many tbh

Ok, let's see him go to a team that's not already top or around top with endless cash (city)
A team that's not top in a one team league and cherry picks all the best players in said league (Munich)
A team that's not top of a two team league with possibly the greatest midfield and one of the greatest players in history (Barca)

 

[Hoof the ball]

Maguire had 110 touches in yesterday's game. More than any other player on the pitch.
Maguire had the second most touches in the opposition's penalty area (6), behind Rashford (7).

That's an indictment. It's inexcusable that having spent most of the game in their half that Maguire was our most prolific passer and almost most prolific attacking threat.

Our xG (expected goals) was 0.47, our second-lowest of this entire season behind only the Arsenal game last month (0.40).

 

[hammerfadl]

Totally agree.
After over 2 years with Ole I find it almost unbelievable that we see no signs of coherent movement or recognisable patterns. Add to that what seems to be a downfall in the organisation in our defense and you really do wonder what they are doing at that training field.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Burner accounts popping up all over the place

 

[Foxbatt]

Eddie Howe? Ohhh now I understand the clamour to sack Ole

I would have Eddie Howe instantly over Carrick, McKenna and Fletcher.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I would have Eddie Howe instantly over Carrick, McKenna and Fletcher.

Didn’t realise it was for coaching staff and not manager sorry, who knows what people want these days.

I wouldn’t mind him as part of the staff maybe

 

[big rons sovereign]

Didn’t realise it was for coaching staff and not manager sorry, who knows what people want these days.

I wouldn’t mind him as part of the staff maybe

Yeah any chance we could get Howe until the end of the season and then reassess options in the summer

Definitely wanted as manager.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Definitely wanted as manager.

So we would go from one manager who got a team relegated, to another manager who got a team relegated?

 

[Peterfeeter]

This is where I think most people misunderstand fans who believe we’re poorly coached. It’s not a case of being entitled and thinking we should play beautiful football and win everything, it’s simply wanting to watch the team we love and be able to see a vision and plan to believe in.

LVG very very obviously coached that team to play a specific style.

The way they played under LVG was described by Paul scholes as horrible football and by a journalist as 'death by a thousand sideways passes'.

 

[gerdm07]

Maguire had 110 touches in yesterday's game. More than any other player on the pitch.
Maguire had the second most touches in the opposition's penalty area (6), behind Rashford (7).

That's an indictment. It's inexcusable that having spent most of the game in their half that Maguire was our most prolific passer and almost most prolific attacking threat.

Our xG (expected goals) was 0.47, our second-lowest of this entire season behind only the Arsenal game last month (0.40).

I don't know about others but I think that is a meaningless stat when your team has 70% of possession.

As far as the 0.47 figure, this just means our forwards are not playing well and Bruno is probably a bit leggy.

 

[Judas]

Ole needs another 2 years and more funds, and hopefully better recruitment. Coaching wise, none of us know exactly goes on

We know enough from what we've watched over the last couple of years that we're showing the exact same issues when it comes to breaking teams down. Either all our players don't listen, are stupid or the coaching is massively missing the mark. Hell it could be all three.

 

[elmo]

I don't know about others but I think that is a meaningless stat when your team has 70% of possession.

As far as the 0.47 figure, this just means our forwards are not playing well and Bruno is probably a bit leggy.

How is it a meaningless stat when your centreback has the most touches and second most in the opposing penalty box?

It's a damning stat on the midfield and forwards that our biggest attacking threat of the night is our centreback despite us having 70% of the possession. They were woeful the entire night.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

I can’t for the life of me understand why we use Maguire as the ball player who steps out & Lindelof as the last line of defence. It makes zero sense. Surely Harry as the stopper & Lindelof as the ball player would make more sense?

 

[Judas]

How is it a meaningless stat when your centreback has the most touches and second most in the opposing penalty box?

It's a damning stat on the midfield and forwards that our biggest attacking threat of the night is our centreback despite us having 70% of the possession. They were woeful the entire night.

Totally agree.

It's shocking that Maguire was one of our biggest threats yesterday, the amount of times he went charging past Martial was pathetic really. I loved see Maguire getting forward like that though, but the fact those around him were doing so little was staggering.

 

[Foxbatt]

Did we put any high balls in for Maguire when he is getting into their box?
As for Lindelof being the last defender, it's because Maguire is much slower than Lindelof.

 

[Hoof the ball]

I don't know about others but I think that is a meaningless stat when your team has 70% of possession.

As far as the 0.47 figure, this just means our forwards are not playing well and Bruno is probably a bit leggy.

Not necessarily. If most of the possession is in your own half then yes, it's entirely reasonable that switching from side to side will result in Maguire having a lot of the ball.

However, when the ball is mostly in the oppositions half you have to explain why the creative outlets aren't the predominate ball carriers. I bet that Diaz or Laporte wouldn't have more touches than De Bruyne, Foden or Sterling.

 

[Lentwood]

I think the general consensus is that we have, at best, the 2nd best team and/or squad in the league. You can argue the toss over whether United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs are better but I think generally we all agree City have a deeper squad and a better XI

Therefore, I understand the frustration but not really the criticism of Ole. Are we not achieving exactly what we would be expected to achieve and/or more based on our limitations?

 

[vanderpants]

I wonder what it will take for changes to be made? Struggling against the worst teams in Premiership history obviously isn’t having any effect

 

[90 + 5min]

Ole is not in the same league as Klopp and never will be and this comparison of their respective times at Utd & Liverpool really needs to stop before gullible people start actually believing it

You are missing the point. That managers need time and that you can't just win league right after you take over the team.

Just seen this now and can't stop laughing. Some of the players at his disposal, the amount of cash he's spent, the likes of VDB on the bench...and you compare it to a firefighter trying to put out a blaze with a bottle of water!? Seriously, you need to take a long hard think about this situation because you're so far of the mark.

Every manager spend money. Should every manager get sacked if they don't win the league? I would love to see when 19 managers get sacked last day of season. nd plyers at his disposal? We really need to stop making our team better than it is. We have very good players but we don't have better squad compared to ManCity. That is why they are infront of us.

Thing with firefighter and bottle was reply to a person in here. You need to have right tools to win things.

 

[pocco]

You are missing the point. That managers need time and that you can't just win league right after you take over the team.


Every manager spend money. Should every manager get sacked if they don't win the league? I would love to see when 19 managers get sacked last day of season. nd plyers at his disposal? We really need to stop making our team better than it is. We have very good players but we don't have better squad compared to ManCity. That is why they are infront of us.

Thing with firefighter and bottle was reply to a person in here. You need to have right tools to win things.

Nice try at moving the goalposts, but this has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on your comment or my comment in response. I never mentioned winning the title. Playing good football would be a start, or at least giving me belief that he is getting the most out of this team and will move us in the right direction if we continue to back him to spend. This team is far better than the likes of West Brom, West Ham, Fulham, Crystal Palace, Brighton, Sheffield United etc. And yet they struggle against all these teams and more. You're doing us a huge disservice by trying to lower the bar, you just can't see this.

 

[Judas]

There is a bit too much lowering of our standards by some on here to give Ole and his staff the benefit of the doubt. There's only so many excuses you can make for how poor we consistently look in the same type of games.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The way they played under LVG was described by Paul scholes as horrible football and by a journalist as 'death by a thousand sideways passes'.

How is that relevant to the point though?

 

[wolvored]

Top logic there. Well done on completely missing the point.
Probably due to being too preoccupied stamping your feet.
Enjoy your dummy of the day award.

Thanks. Think I got your point alright.

 

[Garethw]

There is a bit too much lowering of our standards by some on here to give Ole and his staff the benefit of the doubt. There's only so many excuses you can make for how poor we consistently look in the same type of games.

100%.

 

[Foxbatt]

I do not think anyone is saying that Ole has failed if we do not win the league. I do not think anyone expects us to win the PL though we are missing an opportunity to fight for it given the situation we find ourselves now. But we should be beating teams at the bottom of the league. Now if we had beaten Sheffield United and WBA and Everton, our points tally would be equal City and with still for the City vs United game to come.

 

[Leftback99]

There is a bit too much lowering of our standards by some on here to give Ole and his staff the benefit of the doubt. There's only so many excuses you can make for how poor we consistently look in the same type of games.

Maybe but the same applies to the players as well. £200k+ a week players excused because they need to be 'coached' how to be good at playing football.

 

[Judas]

Maybe but the same applies to the players as well. £200k+ a week players excused because they need to be 'coached' how to be good at playing football.

Coaching is a massive part of the game though, it can't be understated just how big a difference it can make. You think half of that Liverpool team is looking anywhere close to the level it did the last few years without the management and coaching? It can transform players. It can make the best even better.

The players are under performing I'd say, but there's a lot more to it than that.

 

[Leftback99]

Coaching is a massive part of the game though, it can't be understated just how big a difference it can make. You think half of that Liverpool team is looking anywhere close to the level it did the last few years without the management and coaching? It can transform players. It can make the best even better.

The players are under performing I'd say, but there's a lot more to it than that.

But the same coaching has them looking pretty average this season, what has changed is the personnel due to injuries.

 

[Hugh Jass]

You cannot sugarcoat it. The performances themselves against SU and WB were terrible.

If we had 20 shots on goal and were unlucky, i could accept. But the performances themselves were atrocious.

 

[croadyman]

There is a bit too much lowering of our standards by some on here to give Ole and his staff the benefit of the doubt. There's only so many excuses you can make for how poor we consistently look in the same type of games.

Yeah that is definitely happening with Ole in charge

 

[90 + 5min]

Nice try at moving the goalposts, but this has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on your comment or my comment in response. I never mentioned winning the title. Playing good football would be a start, or at least giving me belief that he is getting the most out of this team and will move us in the right direction if we continue to back him to spend. This team is far better than the likes of West Brom, West Ham, Fulham, Crystal Palace, Brighton, Sheffield United etc. And yet they struggle against all these teams and more. You're doing us a huge disservice by trying to lower the bar, you just can't see this.

What goalposts? If you are not talking about winning title, why are you not happy being 2nd? I'm not happy until we win trophies but I understand that this is process and that we will get out title much sooner then people think. If you can't see that we are playing better football than previous few years you just need to go back to where we were. It is not that far. Compare those seasons with this and look at the trajectory. Ofcourse we are better then those teams you mentioned. That is why we are 2nd and they are not. You don't need to look at specific results. Look at the bigger picture.

I'm not lowering the bar. Just being objective. Why are we putting this kind of pressure on Solskjaer after every draw/lost game but at the same time we are putting Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Bielsa and few other managers high in the sky? Looking at the table, Solskjaer is infront of all those but still got more criticism than all those together. Last year we were hit by injuries and noone ever mentioned that. But when Klopp lose his CBs there is a river of tears from everybody and excuses are ok? It seems to me that Solskjaer with how he is as a person is easy target for many of people. Both our fans and outside our fanbase.

I understand we all want to win trophies but step by step we are getting there. Next season will be the season where Solskjaer will need to put even more pressure on teams fighting for title. You need to give him time. You need to give managers time.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Nice try at moving the goalposts, but this has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on your comment or my comment in response. I never mentioned winning the title. Playing good football would be a start, or at least giving me belief that he is getting the most out of this team and will move us in the right direction if we continue to back him to spend. This team is far better than the likes of West Brom, West Ham, Fulham, Crystal Palace, Brighton, Sheffield United etc. And yet they struggle against all these teams and more. You're doing us a huge disservice by trying to lower the bar, you just can't see this.

You’d get more reasoning debating with a reinforced concrete wall than with 90+5.

 

[pocco]

What goalposts? If you are not talking about winning title, why are you not happy being 2nd? I'm not happy until we win trophies but I understand that this is process and that we will get out title much sooner then people think. If you can't see that we are playing better football than previous few years you just need to go back to where we were. It is not that far. Compare those seasons with this and look at the trajectory. Ofcourse we are better then those teams you mentioned. That is why we are 2nd and they are not. You don't need to look at specific results. Look at the bigger picture.

I'm not lowering the bar. Just being objective. Why are we putting this kind of pressure on Solskjaer after every draw/lost game but at the same time we are putting Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Bielsa and few other managers high in the sky? Looking at the table, Solskjaer is infront of all those but still got more criticism than all those together. Last year we were hit by injuries and noone ever mentioned that. But when Klopp lose his CBs there is a river of tears from everybody and excuses are ok? It seems to me that Solskjaer with how he is as a person is easy target for many of people. Both our fans and outside our fanbase.

I understand we all want to win trophies but step by step we are getting there. Next season will be the season where Solskjaer will need to put even more pressure on teams fighting for title. You need to give him time. You need to give managers time.

Because I'm not blind or deluded. I can see our football and how we ride our luck too often or rely on certain players like a tactical crutch. I always said that if a manager got us playing genuinely good football and moving in the right direction then I'd give them a chance. I've never felt Ole had delivered the good football. Instead he relies on Bruno, played too much on the counter which is a non progressive tactic in the long run and he sits back like a coward in big games. I'm sorry but I just don't see the progress.

I don't think the football is a great deal better for the money spent and the players at our disposal. He's also had some great youth players come in that have genuinely added to the squad. I believe this squad now is capable of better than anything we've seen this season.

And Ole obviously gets more criticism from us because he's our manager. Why would we criticise opposition managers, their own fans are doing it already. The pundits barely speak out against Ole. Id say he's had a pretty easy ride in comparison to other managers in the past actually. Your problem is you can't accept any criticism. You want us all to grin and pretend this is great and be happy that we might compete again one day if we keep spending lads of money and the chips fall our way at some stage.

 

[smi11ie]

Some problems as I see it that could be worked on during coaching.

1. Opposition scoring first and usually early in the match.

2. Being unable to create chances against a low-block.

3. Retaining possession against a hard-pressing team.

4. Looking very vunerable on the counter attack.

5. Passing out from defence to much and losing the ball in dangerous areas

Personally I think Utd need a Big Sam style defensive coach who can also work on set pieces. As a counter attacking side Utd are fine.

 

[KD6-3.7]

Pep can improve any player it's why he's spent almost £200M on full backs.

Everyone goes on about the fullbacks spending but did you see the ones he inherited? Kolarov, Clichy, Zabaleta and Sagna all past it and over the hill. The difference is where we persist with poorer players and don’t look to get them out quickly where as city and their owners have the money to take a loss and go again.

Mendy was a good signing on paper but persistent injuries and attitude problems which can happen, Danilo always looked a poor signing but they took Juve’s pants down swapping him for Cancelo who looks excellent.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Ole needs another 2 years and more funds, and hopefully better recruitment. Coaching wise, none of us know exactly goes on

BS.
Coaching wise? We see the evidence on the pitch of his coaching. For the cash that this team has cost to assemble our results are damning evidence of his poor coaching.
This team is going nowhere.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Because I'm not blind or deluded. I can see our football and how we ride our luck too often or rely on certain players like a tactical crutch. I always said that if a manager got us playing genuinely good football and moving in the right direction then I'd give them a chance. I've never felt Ole had delivered the good football. Instead he relies on Bruno, played too much on the counter which is a non progressive tactic in the long run and he sits back like a coward in big games. I'm sorry but I just don't see the progress.

I don't think the football is a great deal better for the money spent and the players at our disposal. He's also had some great youth players come in that have genuinely added to the squad. I believe this squad now is capable of better than anything we've seen this season.

And Ole obviously gets more criticism from us because he's our manager. Why would we criticise opposition managers, their own fans are doing it already. The pundits barely speak out against Ole. Id say he's had a pretty easy ride in comparison to other managers in the past actually. Your problem is you can't accept any criticism. You want us all to grin and pretend this is great and be happy that we might compete again one day if we keep spending lads of money and the chips fall our way at some stage.

This.
But for the freakishly good goal scoring of Bruno we would be stuck around mid-table.

 

[Foxbatt]

We are not a low block team. Low block teams are never going to win the PL. We simply do not have the players to play a pressing game. Pressing means compressing the pitch when we do not have the ball. How can we play a high defence line when our two CBs are so slow and weak? Then our midfield is terrible. The two CBs need to handle the two opposing forwards themselves. Ours cannot. There is no point in Maguire bringing the ball out of defense when it takes ages for it to get to our strikers. By the time they get it, the opposition is all settled back. Our movement off the ball is terrible. Martial could not be bothered. Rashford thinks he is Maradona, Messi and Ronaldo all rolled into one and that he can take the entire defence all on his own. Our midfield cannot pass for their lives. All we depend is for Bruno to create something and hopefully someone will score.
What I really do not understand is why the coaching staff cannot see it? They are unable to get Martial to get into the right positions. They are unable to get Rashford to stop trying to dribble through everyone and also for him to pass the ball at the right time.
we also need to throw everything at the opposition at the last minute. Why didn't we put Maguire up front and bombard the box in the latter parts? He is bound to win a few headers and we got have got the second ball and scored a goal.