Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho started on the bench today. If the coaches knew what there were doing them 3 players would be terrorising every defence in the PL. We literally made Spurs look decent at times when in fact they were terrible. Let’s see if Ole sets up with five at the back against Citeh who won’t have a centre forward
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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That surely is the biggest knock of all. That it seems very clear in October that our goal is top 4, and that's the best we can hope for. How is that in any way progress?
Alright, I am happy to give you that: we have some coaching going on that seems to be at least average. Period.
Apart from that, I see you are trying to take as much positives as you can from todays match and thats totally fair. But at the end of the day, a performance is consisting of attack and defense. And while we have been alright defensively, we weren't anything to write home about in attack. Therefor the performance as a whole is a bit flawed. Nothing wrong with that, the result is very good, the current form is patchy, I'll take a 3-0 win away from home. But it certainly shouldn't lead to any wrong conclusions. Apart from that, after thinking about it, I don't think we should call tonights formation a 3-4-1-2. Because it was more a 5-2-1-2 I think. Semantics I know but part of these 3-at-the-back systems is the existence of wingbacks and nobody can tell me, that neither Shaw nor AWB did anything differently to usually. Which isn't a criticism, just an observation. I get a sense of false security, as if this system change is all we have to do. It won't be the case, today we changed many things: the defensive approach, 3 Centreback, Varane. Nobody knows, how the match would have played out if we had played 4-2-3-1 with Varane and the defensive approach (after all, that approach had quite some success in the last 1.5 years). Probably the match wouldn't have ended very differently.
Hope we spend the next days to give the players a better understanding of the formation though because I think, there were quite a lot situations where we looked quite lost because there were no passing options. This defensive approach should go into the book as the default approach, now the next step is to adjust that to a point, where we look more comfortable in attack as well.
What we did today was simple and it’s the only thing Ole can do, sit back and counter. It’s not enough if want to win the league, the last three years should have been spent taking the team forward not just being same as we were three years ago with some better players.
The fact we have to be genuinely concerned about it baffles me so much. We've just added Ronaldo Varane and Sancho to an already top 4 team and I'd be pleasantly surprised if we actually ended up 4th.
Look, I’m as Ole Out as the next rational human being… but if you didn’t want us to score more after the first one went in, then what’s the point of it all, really?
We’re still a shit show, and we’ll still likely get spanked by City, but even the most masochistic doom merchant would surely agree it’s imperative we win the CL tie midweek… and at the very least this was the best possible confidence booster ahead of that.
Plus it was Spurs. feck Spurs.
We’re still a shit show, and we’ll still likely get spanked by City, but even the most masochistic doom merchant would surely agree it’s imperative we win the CL tie midweek… and at the very least this was the best possible confidence booster ahead of that.
Plus it was Spurs. feck Spurs.
Today was much better in terms of team setup but lads, its spurs. We knew this would be a game that we could bounce back in. Let's see against City next week where we are. I want to see us over the next 5 or 6 games before I commit to a "United qre back" level of optimism.
What exactly is that coaching? Sit back, absorb pressure and counter ? Seriously? I'm done discussing if you call that as coaching because that's exactly what we did 3 years back and that's what we are doing even now.
Everything is moan, moan, moan. Jesus we just won.
Are you suggesting that either City, Liverpool or Chelsea is going to finish below us?
And they missed a sitter before we scored. Spurs were horrible and has been horrible for a long time.
The opposite. I'm very concerned we'll finish outside top 4, hence I'd be pleasantly surprised if we manage to get 4th.
Maybe I'm overreacting because our position isn't that bad yet, but we've seen the dressing room meltdowns under Moyes Mourinho and LVG that lead to midtable finishes, and we've seen it happen to other teams like Chelsea under AVB/Mourinho.
Top 4 is no longer a formality like it used to be under SAF.
Three years though man. Three years.
Three years to play 7 Jose-era players in a formation he’d be proud of, all to be “not title contenders”… What was the fecking point?
And this tone is back. Posters voicing actual concerns should shut up about it since we won/were 2nd/reached an European final/etc.
It took one match. Fantastic.
I think it's fair to note the difference between someone like Conte pragmatically adopting a 3-5-2 to deal with a misfiring team he inherited and Ole pragmatically adopting a 3-5-2 to deal with a misfiring team he built.
It's great that this formation functioned well today in the context of our malfunctioning so far this season. But it's not a positive that a team that went into the season hoping to move away from the need to use the rather conservative McFred double pivot just got arguably their best performance of the season by throwing another CB behind that pivot as well. As an emergency fire-fighting measure I like it, as a culmination of a three-year build not so much.
So yeah, if you want to argue it requires good coaching to switch formations and get it working competently then that's fine. But that's in the context of the Plan A we've been building and recruiting for over three years collapsing due to our management's inability to make it work tactically.
It was made clear that for Solskjaer it's all about the next three games right now though so I have no issue with him doing what he has to do to stay in his job. It worked and that's good enough for today.
It's great that this formation functioned well today in the context of our malfunctioning so far this season. But it's not a positive that a team that went into the season hoping to move away from the need to use the rather conservative McFred double pivot just got arguably their best performance of the season by throwing another CB behind that pivot as well. As an emergency fire-fighting measure I like it, as a culmination of a three-year build not so much.
So yeah, if you want to argue it requires good coaching to switch formations and get it working competently then that's fine. But that's in the context of the Plan A we've been building and recruiting for over three years collapsing due to our management's inability to make it work tactically.
It was made clear that for Solskjaer it's all about the next three games right now though so I have no issue with him doing what he has to do to stay in his job. It worked and that's good enough for today.
I don’t particularly get involved in tactics but last night I had enough. “United way” please don’t that. Mate, just play decent football, like.
I agree with that, it was a good win with beautiful goals.
A final which we lost because our tactically inept coaching team thought the best play was to play for penalties from the 70th min despite our goalie at that point hadn't saved a penalty since 2015. A final we lost because Ole and his team had absolutely no idea how to break down despite our highest earner probably earning more than the rest of their team combined.
And a 2nd place finish in a season where we actual bottled it from a leading postion early 21 by once again failing to beat the likes lf Sheffield United and WBA, well again, because our coached has no idea how to break down a team other than 'give the ball to Bruno lads'. A 2nd place finish which only gave 2nd due to a generally low point scoring season where both Chelsea and Liverpool under performed. A 2nd place where our point total would only had secured 2nd one other season since Fergie left, which is the Leicester season, yet another historic low point season for all usual top teams.
I think the unfolding of last season is and should be just as much of a reason to sack Ole.
Yes. How long can he play yesterday‘s team and keep those 3 on the bench? A significant amount of time and a new set of problems will come up. Sancho especially is unlikely to get ANY significant game time if he relies on that system/team to keep his job. I think as long as Ole is in charge the more likely Sancho flops, which in itself should cause the blard to ask questions. Good performance and result yesterday.
You see, this is one of the frustrations fans may have. Working on how we set-up and play with and without the ball is, er, what football coaching is all about... it shouldn't be some 'damascene moment' or something... Gary Neville nailed it when he stated that other teams have been doing this week in, week out! And not neccesarily the top sides btw...
We have a manager that is taking us to settle for thorough, consistent and absolute mediocrity. Nothing more. We no longer even think a real title challenge is something worth considering under Ole, and he has managed the squad for nearly 150 games and spent bundles, bundles of cash.
Why do some of us want to accept that for our club? Why? Because Ole is nice? I don't understand it... the other top teams in Europe, a number of which have been going through their own transitions, player issues, management changes, boardroom stuff... but they are still strong, competitive teams.
Look where we are?
The most important thing to take from today was midfield shape, thats clearly what we have been working on. We have to take that shape forward with us, the back 5 was an insurance policy because of recent results and performances, to make sure we gave nothing away. But at some point we will revert back to a back 4, but we have to stick with the midfield shape.
Why we played with the double pivot at all this season i don't know, its poor from ole and the coaching staff that and its been our biggest problem we saw it at times last season and alot this season that it leaves to much space in midfield and its to easy to play through and we end up with the attack and defence detached. We never saw that today it was always compact and we felt in control with or without the ball.
Spurs were poor and the second goal come at a very good time for us we were just struggling to get out a little the second goal gave us the breathing space and we were very comfortable watching spurs pointlessly look for openings and looking for counters. We were never gonna take many risks once we got in front today, those three points were to valuable.
First half performance was good though we kept spurs quiet and had some Good spells with the ball, we saw the wingback overloading and causing problems and those overloads were creating space for bruno and Fred to work from more central posistions we also saw mctom and the 2 wide cbs pushing up to win loose balls and keep the pressure on. Those we all repeated patterns in the first half and they led to some decent chances and eventually led to the goal, half chance or not you make enough of them with the quality we have eventually you take one, all the big teams rely on this and more often than not makes the difference.
Think Keane and Souness put it perfectly yesterday. We are not good enough to go toe to toe with any good side - which is a damning indictment 3 years into a Man Utd managers reign. But there is no shame in being honest with ourselves and being a top side out of possession with a really potent counterattacking threat...which is what we have always had the potential to be under Ole.
Whatever Ole thought he was building toward clearly hasn’t worked and until we get a proper coach in, I’d rather see us compact and winning games than watch Ole and his team embarrass us any more with attempts at being expansive.
In our formation yesterday we were like a less watchable West Ham...its better than being who have been so far this season.
Whatever Ole thought he was building toward clearly hasn’t worked and until we get a proper coach in, I’d rather see us compact and winning games than watch Ole and his team embarrass us any more with attempts at being expansive.
In our formation yesterday we were like a less watchable West Ham...its better than being who have been so far this season.
so lads is Ole gonna bin the tried and failed high-line, 'high press' for good?
and opt more for the deep defensive line, 'low block' counter-attacking tactic often now?
and opt more for the deep defensive line, 'low block' counter-attacking tactic often now?
Never really tried a high-line and our "experiments" with high press have been more down to optimism but preparation and we only witnessed one match in a different shape so your question is difficult to answer if not for just a "might be right".
The funny thing is the high press might have rolled Spurs over yesterday, whereas the 7 defenders counter-attack might have got a result against Liverpool. But hey-ho, at least we got three points.
Everything they've been working towards for three years is now in the bin. Stick a load of defenders on and hit teams on the break. If we make it to the knockouts of the CL it might actually get us somewhere in that competition. The league is already gone though.
Everything they've been working towards for three years is now in the bin. Stick a load of defenders on and hit teams on the break. If we make it to the knockouts of the CL it might actually get us somewhere in that competition. The league is already gone though.
Just as I predicted, he's going full blown defensive to save his job. He's fully entitled to do that tbf, but I expect our performances are going to be very dull from hereonin. Whatever, if we keep winning, then so-be-it. It was a good result yesterday, but Spurs were absolutely horrible.
He still absolutely has to go, but as I suspected, he'll likely see out the season. If he finds a system that works, then he might as well stick to it. It's not a system that suits the squad, but he'll have to deal with that.
He still absolutely has to go, but as I suspected, he'll likely see out the season. If he finds a system that works, then he might as well stick to it. It's not a system that suits the squad, but he'll have to deal with that.
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And this is simply why he still has to go. 3 years on and no style of play, no philosophy, nothing. It's sad that it took a 5-0 walloping for most people to come to terms with that. Self preservation mode is fine but we've seen this story far too many times under Ole and it always leads down to the same path. We could be doing so much better under competent coaching and if we had anything about us and tried to be more proactive,w could perhaps salvage something from this season, perhaps a trophy or two.
2 of them did so last season and there is no reason why 2 of them can't again.
Honestly I'm beginning to fecking hate our fans....
I think you underestimate the confidence boost a team can get from a clean sheet after conceding 19 goals to start the season. Whether or not he sticks to that game plan remains to be seen and he'll end up with one too many 0-0 draws as soon as we start playing the Burnley and Villareal games of the season, so he'll need to be more expansive out of necessity.
Based on mathematical thinking: yes.
Based on football matters: maybe but pretty unlikely, wouldn't you agree? I mean, I don't know, what is more likely at this point, any of them falling into a bigger rut or us constantly leaving the rut we are already in.
Then you are in the wrong thread. At some point, you kind of can't put on the others if you come in here after all.
Sacked Jose only to appoint a worse version of him. Everyone surrounding Man United is clueless, to be honest. Probably because we never had to worry about anything since SAF did that all.
No. Because despite of all the insistence of doom and gloom in here. In the next 5 weeks we could take 3 points off City, Chelsea and Arsenal in the league. We have it in us if we apply ourselves. Regardless of whether you look at maths nor footballing matters. It's not like we havent done it before with Inferior equipment the past few years.
Arteta has achieved more than Ole for feck sakes and thats without spending millions on the best players available.
That must be the famous glas half full
I like it. Honestly I do. I am missing the optimism though. We didn't look too great at the start of the season while playing smaller teams and we looked worryingly bad against all half-decent opponents. The good defensive performance from yesterday might just be a fluke and even if not, it came against a team in probably problems even bigger than ours. Let's see where it gets us. Don't think, there is a big chance, City will take us lightly this time. Probably Pep will play a bit more reserved taking away our only strength. Don't know about Tuchel but probably he would also be fine with a match ending in a draw.
I’m still raging we sacked Atkinson.
There's no more damaging critique of Ole's plans than Ole giving up on them.
exhibit A
All 3 of them were comfortably better than us by the end of last season despite how the table looked. See Liverpool smashing 4 past us at OT and Chelsea winning the CL. Now this season has started all things being equal, no Lampard, no empty stadiums, injuries pending etc I think you're being very optimistic.
Put it this wayThat must be the famous glas half full
I like it. Honestly I do. I am missing the optimism though. We didn't look too great at the start of the season while playing smaller teams and we looked worryingly bad against all half-decent opponents. The good defensive performance from yesterday might just be a fluke and even if not, it came against a team in probably problems even bigger than ours. Let's see where it gets us. Don't think, there is a big chance, City will take us lightly this time. Probably Pep will play a bit more reserved taking away our only strength. Don't know about Tuchel but probably he would also be fine with a match ending in a draw.
Every time we've beaten City recently it has had nothing to do with them t aking us lightly. We just got our tactics and game plan right. Right now they aren't even in invincible form.
As for Tuchel. He doesn't have the best of records vs Ole. Plus missing Lukau is a huge plus for us. We get our tactics and game plan right, match day. He will sweat to beat us too.
Of the three big games we have coming up o the league its actually arteta who seems to enjoy himself vs Ole. But I believe if we do the right things. We'll beat him too
Even though we beat up on a floundering spurs. I was encouraged by our application plus hopefully the start of keeping cleqn sheets again.
We've only had that application twice this season. Vs Leeds at home and West Ham away. The rest of the time we haven't been organised enough nor have we worked hard enough as a team. If we can do those 2 things consistently. It will put us in good stead for the rest of the season at the very least
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