It’s the best tactic for this coaching staff, not this group of players.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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Looked like the United of last season. Defensively sound but creating next to nothing. But I take defensively sound at this point. I like that Ole switched formations. He had to do something. But to put it in perspective, it felt like Spurs had this one game per season that we had last year against them (and hopefully this year against Liverpool).
Exactly
You must be kidding. Tonight proved that this charade of Ole trying to implement the 'United way' has been utter tosh. We played seven defensive players. That's not great coaching, that's a rescue act.
We now feel satisfied beating an absolutely abject, awful team by sitting deep.
And btw, this 'counter-attack' option, where did that get us? You think the other top teams are concerned by that?
Ole isn't taking us anywhere... the better teams are pulling away.
It won't win us anything but he might save his job until the end of the season, that's his ambition now.
And the manager has every right to go for that target. I have not a single issue with it as long as the club is doing what it is supposed to do. Looking for the perfect successor and prepare as much as possible for his arrival.
Not complaining but if a better manager is available and is willing to come now we should go for him. I don't like the idea of wasting this year.
Yeah I understand what you mean. But it feels like this "better manager" is Conte and this feels a bit like a shortcut .I mean, if he is the best candidate after a thourough examination, then fine but I doubt, we took that time.
Are we mixing performances with results again? Or what do you mean by performance?
Were you? We played 7 defenders yet they still got the ball in the net before us and Son had a 1v1 he would have scored on any other day. We were bang average and relied on the fact we have two of the best strikers of the last 20 years in our team, and they don't.
It was a good result, but let's not pretend this is some corner turned.
Satisfied? Was it a good performance? Or was it a good performance in the light of recent performances?
We were good defensively. And we finished very well but both counters were somewhat gifted by the opposition. So it wasn't like we were forcing anything, it was Tottenham giving stuff away.
What did you consider so good of the performance?
Are we badly coached at all levels? Looking at the Under 23's today, a front four of Shoretire, Elenga, Diallo and Hughill and we couldn't beat spurs. Same with the under 18's against Derby, good that we fought back from 2 0 down buy should we have been in that position.
A DOF should be looking at this at all levels.
At Ajax any youngster can walk into the first team and know the way they play. Can we say the same by us? I agree in principal how we operate at junior levels that performance is more important than results, but even so performance should be geared towards a system, a pattern. Can Mejbri or Galbraith walk into the first team and know which system we are playing and which system we are using?
A DOF should be looking at this at all levels.
At Ajax any youngster can walk into the first team and know the way they play. Can we say the same by us? I agree in principal how we operate at junior levels that performance is more important than results, but even so performance should be geared towards a system, a pattern. Can Mejbri or Galbraith walk into the first team and know which system we are playing and which system we are using?
Waaaah.
"Excellent", "near perfect" - I think, that is pushing it quite a bit but each to their own. Hope I didn't made you think, I wouldn't respect that opinion, I just don't share it. And I agree mostly with the last sentence though, we were quite comfortable, but Spurs weren't asking a lot of difficult questions.
Yet here we are and you see us unsatisfied
I can imagine that looks picky or spoilt or anything. But it isn't meant like that. I like the positive result. I like the disciplined performance, like the manager for adjusting the system and approach. But to call the performance good or great does feel just as wrong as some of the criticism of the last two matches felt wrong too.In conclusion, we seem to be aligned. What an end for the day ^^
Today proves a lot of people talk a lot of bollocks. He changed the tactics and the team, it worked. We are back in the melting pot. We are progressing, we are a good team and Ole is at the wheel
We stopped the relentless talk about not keeping a clean sheet and we got a comfortable 3-0 away win.
The manager truly can do nothing right, win lose or draw.
Yes and yes
That's because he's already proven he's incompetent. Years of being tactically inept has already cemetended his time here as underwhelming.. It doesn't matter what he does anymore. He's done this like 5 other times, this isn't new.
Then again you're just a massive troll who loves his countryman, so dunno why I'm replying to you
Thats because it’s already too late, the damage is done. I see nothing that makes me think a title race is back on
A poorly coached team does not put in a cohesive display away from home in a new formation.
Just shows that tactics and formations ARE being worked on at the training ground.
Just shows that tactics and formations ARE being worked on at the training ground.
And the last few weeks show..?
You dont think its a bit over the top calling me a troll for that comment?
It's more about your overall body of work on this forum
Shame you feel that way.
Cohesive? What?
Well I am sure, we are doing something during the week, don't think anybody suggested the players are just doing yoga and selfaffirmation and stuff. We played defensively against a horrible Spurs team. We finished a halfchance very very well and finished two counters professional. Thats all good but lets not act, as if the big picture has changed anything. Today the manager put all his money on defense: Varane back from injury directly into the starting 11, 3-at-the-back system, sitting deep and wait for counters approach throughout the match - credit where credit is due, we won convincingly but we shouldn't feel more secure than before. After all we've seen this might just have been some sort of blip. Just with a more positive result than the blip against Liverpool the other weekend.
Is it a coincidence that the only games we actually looked competent in Ole's tenure are the ones that afford us space to run into?
Leeds, Leipzig(home), Southampton all have one thing in common. We were afforded acres of space. Today was no different. I think this is the only coaching our team actually receives.
The best way to play against us is to give us the ball and hit us on the counter. Then our team is forced to rely on individual brilliance to "unlock" these said defenses.
It's going to be interesting how City are going to line up though.
Leeds, Leipzig(home), Southampton all have one thing in common. We were afforded acres of space. Today was no different. I think this is the only coaching our team actually receives.
The best way to play against us is to give us the ball and hit us on the counter. Then our team is forced to rely on individual brilliance to "unlock" these said defenses.
It's going to be interesting how City are going to line up though.
umm, we played 7 in defence.
It's exactly this mentality why Utd haven't made any real progress for years. It was hardly a great performance. It was an ok performance where we were very clinical vs a very poor Spurs side that will probably finish about mid-table. It's not like that lineup or performance will lead us to where we actually want to be, and it's a very valid argument to point out that it demonstrates that any long term planning is out of the window, and we're in a short term do anything to save my job mode. As the transfers simply make no sense if this was part of any long term vision, we'd have paid £73m for a guy we chased for 2 summer's as clearly our #1 target with effectively no place ever in this formation. We'd have spent £50m on a RB who can't attack so is simply not a wing back, and spent nothing addressing a key area of midfield which is a clear weakness, so let's not pretend this is part of any long term vision to get Utd back to the top, it's a desperate effort to save Ole's job.
We were great today. The tactics were spot on and Ole deserved credit but don’t base this on one match.
More often than not this season we have looked all over the place tactically. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction but I’m not getting my hopes up
I'm not sure anyone argued we don't do anything in training. Under 14s work on tactics and formations. It's just not to a high enough standard compared to our competition.
The argument is in 3 years of the current coaching set up, we do not look like an elite football team. We're judging 3 years worth of performances, not 1 game.
My point being that this thread is about us being poorly coached, yet here is a prime example of Ole changing things about, changing personnel and system, in a week, and us getting a positive result.
That would point towards a good coaching structure surely?
Spurs weren't great today for sure, but part of that was the performance of United.
I'm not saying we're title contenders after that, merely that we ARE obviously working on tactical play during the week.
I agree mainly with you.
Just saying that we are obviously working on stuff throughout the week, and it showed today.
In that three years we have reached a European final and finished second in the premiership, not great by United standards, but surely a step up from under 14 standards, wouldn't you say?
Doesn't say much, but I do believe at the start of today they were above us in the tableWe were playing a Spurs side who have been losing left, right and center this season.
Yeah today was promising and it looked like we had a plan which was good. We executed it well but this should be a minimum requirement at this level.
The problem I’ve had is not we get the tactics wrong most games which causes us defeats it’s more the fact that half the time I don’t know what we are trying to do
I don’t think he actually compares United’s coaching to the level of under 14’s, you need to read that post again
So you think that is acceptable against the most toothless team in the PL? Where do you get the idea about the good coaching? Compared to our previous games, yeah, we've looked better. But we still seldom created anything. First goal was Bruno being Bruno and Ronaldo being Ronaldo. Second goal was a lovely individual skill from Ronaldo and the third one was a good pass from McTominay. We didn't exactly dominate the game, we didn't really create much chances or threatened Spurs all that much. We were better in possesssion and Spurs were of no threat to us, which could probably be argued as an improvement given that we concede every game, but that just goes to show how low standards have fallen.
Right you are.
You guys told us to enjoy the win after Atalanta, that we've turned a corner, yada yada, and then Liverpool banged 5 past us.
I want the side to do well. Not exist off short termism that leads to long term failure.
We reached a European final because we couldn't get out the CL group stage.
I wasn't arguing that we're under 14s standard, I was just making the obvious point the fact we do work on tactics in training isn't any indication that we're a well coached side.
It's a team that has spent almost a billion on players trying to scrape top 4.