Why don’t you marry him then.
Games or game? One game in the LC a competition half the Caf are happy to be out of anyway…
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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I swear some of our fans here are behaving like Poch fanboys and think that the league cup is below us.
Wonderful way of making an argument
Dumped out of LC twice losing 2 times out of 3. 1 win was during the time when the tie was already done and dusted (city beat us 3-1 at OT).
We also beat them 2-1 in the league that season and 1-0 in the return leg.Wonderful way of making an argument
Dumped out of LC twice losing 2 times out of 3. 1 win was during the time when the tie was already done and dusted (city beat us 3-1 at OT).
City won the first game 3-1 and we had a lot of injuries if I remember right so hardly surprising they went through.
We beat City home and away in the league, But supposedly the loss to them in a league cup semi counted more
We drew 0-0 at home.
Why the feck are we discussing how many times we've beat City or Liverpool? Should we also discuss how many trophies they've won in recent years too compared to us? Is there some top 4 league trophy that I'm missing? The league is a marathon, not a game-raising competition.
Embarrassing. This used to be the stuff we mock RAWK for.
Embarrassing. This used to be the stuff we mock RAWK for.
This is exactly why I'm banging the drum that these stats are more informative than simple league position which heavily depends on how other teams perform. In essence, we're still looking like a 65-75 point team and that's not going to be enough to be even near the league title.
Again everyone talking about matches as if they don’t watch them and just look at score lines. We play counter attacking football against top sides with 2 deep sitting 6s and hope the front 4 can grab us something. We are/were an excellent counterattacking side. That’s not the arguement. The arguement is that aside from the 6 possibly 8 games a season- ie.the other 40 or so...we can’t play on the counter attack because we are supposed to be Man Utd and we are supposed to dominate those games....we don’t...cause Ole and his team have not once shown in 3 years anything to suggest that he has a plan or structure or idea of how to break down deep sitting teams except for hoping one of the lads can produce.
Any other take on this should provide a list of quality performances against non top 4 sides as proof of their arguement or they should stop talking. Sick of the bullshit pointing at league tables. We have eyes...and we are a dire watch unless we hand over the ball...slow and clueless. If that’s not on the coaching team then tell me who it’s on and I’ll be upset at them instead.
I do watch the matches maybe you should watch the matches more closely this season before coming in a thread and shouting off about a style of play that has changed this season, we haven’t deployed two sitting midfielders this season and have played front foot football and dominated possession. So what do you want to play counter attack which I assume you know was a favourite tactic of early Fergie or continue with a progressive style until it clicks?
And we are talking about results because a guy said we haven’t a scooby about beating City because Klopp made an interview saying he packed midfield and I pointed out we did as we have beat them numerous times.
Whenever we lose it’s always; ‘it was only the Europa League’, ‘it was only one league game’, ‘it’s only the FA Cup’. It’s used as a defence mechanism for the manager, people are writing off tournaments we lose in with our manager trying his hardest, yet failing to win.
Especially when they make it out as if the CL and the EPL are the only acceptable trophies for us, yet we look miles off being good enough for the EPL and are already looking like we may struggle in our CL group which consists of teams which should be deemed quite 'easy' for a tournament like the CL.
Funny stuff.
Truth be told, he really should of been trying to win the Carabao Cup this year. Even if it was just to get a trophy under his belt (albeit a minor one, but still).
Read what I wrote before jumping.I said nothing about playing differently this season! Said nothing about dominating possession..said nothing about wanting to play counter attacking football against anyone! ...I made a statement- I said we play counter attacking football against TOP sides...and it’s the only time we look like a proper team with a strong idea of what we are supposed to be doing! we haven’t played top sides yet so haven’t been playing counter attacking football...which is the only type of football we can play effectively!
In short, we have never been effective under Ole outside of counter attacking. This season is no different to any other season. By looking at league finishes and possession stats you ignore the fact that through the tried and tested method of just looking at football matches...we are still completely ineffective with the ball ...and shown no sign at all of gelling or improving.
It is therefore perfectly fine to assume that the current manger/set of coaches are struggling to implement a more effective way of breaking teams down...even though they have had plenty of time...
It’s early days yet we still have to bed players in, we must give it time.
Olein guys joke with us (who want him out) how we talk about patterns of play. Guys, how you can deny that we don't have nearly any pattern of play? Look at City, Chelsea, Liverpool. They look nearly perfect on the pitch. Chelsea killing with high tempo and control, City with movement and 1000 passes and Liverpool have textbook transition. What do we have? We play 50:50 game vs any club. Against Villa, Everton and WH, when we needed a goal, we could not keep the ball. Against Villa we barely created a chance in 2nd half and played in low block. Against Everton, after they scored, we didn't pushed them in their penalty box. Even under Jose in his 3rd meltdown season, when we needed a goal we were dominated opposition. Now we play with same style no matter is it 0:0, 0:1 or 1:0.
After 3 years in charge and top squad, you would surely expect that we look far better on the pitch?
After 3 years in charge and top squad, you would surely expect that we look far better on the pitch?
Would show why we were allegedly after Rice in the summer, would see a change in formation. Which is why the DM is so important to get in, would be interesting to see if we go after anyone in Jan.
That's damning. Ole has been backed by the board and for all his supposed progress i.e mentality change, better squad harmony, fitness etc .. we pretty much have nothing to show for it statistically. He is clearly a good man manager and has stabilised things but this is a results business .. or at least it is at most clubs.
Why not Donny? I struggle to see what McT can and Donny can't. Plus Donny is already great on the ball.
It was in Ole's first full season that we did the double over them in the league. Ole's record against Pep in the PL is three wins, one draw and one loss.
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In the last two seasons it is, yeah.
Towards the end of 2018/19 City beat us 2-0 at Old Trafford. So the record is P5 W3 D1 L1
If you watch Fabinho at Liverpool, he's outstanding in that position, but Liverpool still put at least one hard worker in midfield ahead of him, often two. They press from the front to win the ball back and prevent the counter. City have fewer hard workers (relatively speaking), but Pep protects them in a different way, by always having an extra man and a very coordinated press. Sometimes that's a false 9, other times its inverted wingers, sometimes its full backs that join the midfield.
For us, having a single DM type figure will always be a struggle if we're also going to play Bruno & Pogba ahead, along with Rashford & Sancho/Greenwood out wide and Ronaldo sitting in the box up front. There's no balance whatsoever in that kind of formation. A front five, all of whom are prone to risky passes/dribbles, none of whom are that great at defensive actions and a single DM in front of the back four? That feels like it'll just make us even more porous.
We of course desperately need a new DM. However I feel like its become the "new CB" vibe that we had last year, thinking that would fix our problems. Getting a truly world-class CB has made little difference to our defence, partly because of the lack of DM to be fair, but also because the problem was more than just personnel.
Records like that count for little. We set up defensively against City, Pool, Chelsea, PSG and anyone else who is remotely decent. We counter attack well and usually are close to getting some sort of result. Problem is, that’s about 1/6 of the season. The other 5/6 we are clueless. In addition, as Manchester United, with Pogba, Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho, Bruno, Rashford, Shaw and McGuire in the team etc...there is surely an issue with saying “our squad matches yours for quality- but we still can’t play football as well as you- so here’s the ball we are going to catch you out on the break instead to get a result”...
we have to be looking to compete with the best on an equal footing as it is no longer a case of our squad not being up to it. Look at City/PSG or Pool/City in the last week or so or Chelsea/Pool CL final or Bayern/Barca in days gone by, Poch spurs v City and Liverpool...two big teams slapping their balls on the table and going toe to toe to see who’s better. I don’t mind Utd Counter attacking once in a while or when injuries and other considerations come into it but we don’t have an excuse with this group of players to still be counter attacking against every big side.
You're right. I forgot about that game.
VDB isn't "great" on the ball, or at least that seems a massive exaggeration. Xabi Alonso was great on the ball, Paul Scholes was great on the ball, Luka Modric is great on the ball, Jorginho or Verratti are great on the ball.
VDB is decent on the ball, why should we go any further than that when he's only put in a couple of 7/10s in his entire Utd career and the rest has been mediocrity. No idea where this stuff on VDB comes from.
He played on no10 which he is not. Give him few games on no6 and then lets see is he good or not.
I agree. VDB is merely tidy on the ball. The whole 'he's great on the ball' thing is more due to the likes of Mctominay being so basic in their on-the-ball work and VDB's Ajax background. Otherwise, the guy has shown no great ability on the ball at all, which isn't surprising given he was more of a Lampard type goalscorer for his previous club. And even if he has more quality on the ball than the likes of Mctominay or Fred, they are right now mentally stronger than him based on his displays.
I just think it was a really really poor signing that should never have been made.
What about based on THEIR displays? They're playing shit.
Well I agree that VDB hasn't got much to go in his United career but our current options are dire so far. Its hard to imagine that he could be worse than what we've seen from Fred and McT so far this season. If nothing else, it could be another body to use until we get an upgrade in. After all, if McFred are struggling now, think how they'll be on the run-in, after 40 more games with no rotation.
Have to disagree with this. VdB worked superbly in Ajax's system because as a team they know how to stretch opponents with one-touch football (something that almost every successful team does, including United teams of old). He has a good understanding of space, and he has the technical skills to hold the ball.
Instead of McTominay, it should be VdB who Carrick and McKena groom for the no. 6 role. VdB can play great midfield splitting passes in the same way as Carrick himself did. Carrick was not a very physical player; he didn't tackle but he was a great DM because of his positioning and his eye for a pass.
There was a reason why Bayern and Real were interested in VdB. Sure, he is a systems player, but then football is a systems game. What other kind of player should there be? Ole has bludgeoned our expectations of what a team should be like, as he relies so much on individual brilliance.
Get a elite (or half-decent even) manager in and see the likes of VdB and Sancho flourish.
Whilst I largely agree with your point, Bruno's defensive responsibilities currently hamper our creative threat! Pretty sure he's bailed us out at least twice in the past few weeks when the rest of the midfield and defence have gone MIA.
He, along with Cavani are also the only one's who can/will press from the front. The amount or times I see Bruno do this, get beaten and then throw his arms up as if to say "why is no one else pressing?!" is incredible.
He must surely being going against instructions to do so, but I can't blame the guy.
The best way to protect our shaky midfield/defence is to stop the ball entering our final third in the first place.
On Sancho I agree because he is incredibly talented. VDB isn't the player everyone wants him to be. Everyone here thinks that he's capable of being this excellent 6 when: 1) By all accounts he was a goalscoring midfielder at Ajax whose job was to find spaces and get involved in goals 2) he has barely any pace and pretty much no physicality to speak of 3) he seems to be defensively weak 4) apart from being tidy, where is this supposed class on the ball? Carrick had a genuine passing range. VDB is like Herrera - tidy but a basic passer of the ball except Herrera had a better mentality and could harry excellently.
That's a good point. We really should be pressing better and it's not even just about individuals but doing it wel in unison rather than one player showing aggression and passion and the others staying back resulting in an easy pass for the opposition. Bruno definitely tries hard to do it but the unit needs to do more together.
When have we seen this great "midfield splitting passes"? As far as I can work out that wasn't even a strength of his at Ajax where he undoubtedly played better football then he currently does. So what is the justification for this?
His passing at United has been fairly basic. Nice little lay offs occasionally, reasonable over 10 yards but we have seen nothing defence splitting. I would argue we haven't even seen much that is progressive, he has largely just ticked the ball over.
That being said, clearly that type of passing may be okay for a 6. It's not ideal but it could be okay. The problem is that is a small portion of what is required for the role. He's shown very little ability to get around the pitch or in duels, or defensively, or frankly any kind of mentality to take the bull by the horns in general.
If he's going to do anything here it will be as an 8. Where he's not the main man and can tick things over. He's not enough of a threat as a 10 and there's far too much he doesn't do to be a 6.
How many games have you seen him play for United? How many full games?
I've seen the games he's played, whatever they are. You are just as capable of digging up the stats as I am. I'm sure it's an unimpressive amount but I am equally sure it's enough to pass comment on what he has done, why shouldn't it be? It's simply calling a spade a spade at this point.
I don't think it matters that much whether they're full games or appearances at this point because it's clear he has to take advantage of the limited opportunities. You have to make an impact in whatever situation is presented, it's Manchester United we're talking about. You have to put your hand up, especially when out of favour.
He'll get another go soon, he's bound to. Will he take it or will it pass him by again?
I am with those who say the midfield needs an overhaul. The top 3 teams have great managers on their side
however we should give full support Ole as he is one of our own and doesnot have a resume like them.
it is just seeing this midfield sickens me sometimes. If Ole doesnot correct the midfield in time then i may join Ole out
so far he has done okay with out being great.
however we should give full support Ole as he is one of our own and doesnot have a resume like them.
it is just seeing this midfield sickens me sometimes. If Ole doesnot correct the midfield in time then i may join Ole out
so far he has done okay with out being great.
I don't really understand this logic. Obviously loyalty to a club legend is a point you can make and see as part of "the United way", but his lacking resume? He came with few national titles to United like Klopp had before joining Liverpool. The fact that he has not added to that is simply that he failed to manage to win anything with United. This is a failure and should surely be an argument against him, but not in his favour?
There are a couple of reasons to excuse this failure so far, but I would in no way see it as a reason to keep him, that he so far failed to win any title.
You seem to be comparing winning the Norwegian league to breaking Bayern's monopoly in Germany? I would say the latter is more of an elite manager badge than the former.
I agree that the Bundesliga has to be higher rated, but Molde also was not a title winning team in the decade before Ole coached them, so that is at least similar for the two of them. In the end it does not matter much for my point, as I was referring to his lacking resume in regard to the PL - how little it actually is, is not much difference to the point that he was not a proven PL manager before he started at United and that he still has not proven to be a title winning coach.
Also Bayern did not have an absolute monopoly like they have now, in the 2000s several other clubs won the league (2002 Dortmund, 2004 Bremen, 2007 Stuttgart, 2009 Wolfsburg, 2011 and 2012 Dortmund again), it was not that hard to beat them as it is now.