Because he doesn't have balls to drop Pogba or Bruno when things aren't going well. He doesn't have the balls to tell Ronaldo to fecking chase the ball. Playing all the star players doesn't automatically make it 433. Trying it is ok, but when you know it's not working, not changing the star players is a cowardly approach.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
- Start date
He literally brought Pogba off in this game. Like about 2 hours ago. He’s also dropped Pogba numerous times. Nothing you’re talking about is cowardly in the slightest. How we set up tonight was naive - it wasn’t cowardly.
Ole playing with Emery like the wily old fox he is.
He knew sinking the Yellow Submarine with virtually the last kick of the game would make it all the more satisfying!
He knew sinking the Yellow Submarine with virtually the last kick of the game would make it all the more satisfying!
Yet you defended Mourinho almost until the end
------------------------------------Cavani--------------------------------
-------Ronaldo-----------------Bruno------------------Lingard---------
------------------Pogba------------------McTominay------------------------
O|R
------------------------------------Cavani--------------------------------
-------Ronaldo------------Lingard------------------------Greenwood
------------------Bruno--------------------McTominay----------------------
Does it work? On form basis and work ethic levels I think Lingard should get a run of games
-------Ronaldo-----------------Bruno------------------Lingard---------
------------------Pogba------------------McTominay------------------------
O|R
------------------------------------Cavani--------------------------------
-------Ronaldo------------Lingard------------------------Greenwood
------------------Bruno--------------------McTominay----------------------
Does it work? On form basis and work ethic levels I think Lingard should get a run of games
You should watch the game we just played against Villarreal.
Ole has done a good job but yeah, the lack of a pattern of play is a weird one and bringing in Ronaldo has made it more obvious than before.
I have a feeling that Spurs could well take him when Nuno is sacked and he will get them back up there again, really hope he then doesn't also take Donny take off our hands and show him what we could have seen if given a proper chance.
Yeah you get the distinct impression that no one in the decision making team sees bringing in a manager who can actually coach the players as remotely important and that is one terrifying thought to say the least
Thus far, the shape of the team is worse than last season. It's concerning. It starts and ends with central midfield.
Matic is the most well rounded central midfielder at the club even if he's the least mobile. Twice he's come on as a sub and help settle the team when they were chasing a winner (e.g. West Ham and Villareal).
United did play a more 433 variation tonight, with Pogba being the highest central midfielder with McTominay the lowest and Bruno floating around, but not as high as Pogba. But the distances between the players, knowing you only have two players in the middle, make the shape of the team soft. Therefore, it was too easy for Villareal to hit one or two passes to get through the midfield and connect with their forwards.
It improved in the second half, as did the tempo. The subs again paid off and allowing Cavani and Ronaldo to interchange was great to see.
Matic is the most well rounded central midfielder at the club even if he's the least mobile. Twice he's come on as a sub and help settle the team when they were chasing a winner (e.g. West Ham and Villareal).
United did play a more 433 variation tonight, with Pogba being the highest central midfielder with McTominay the lowest and Bruno floating around, but not as high as Pogba. But the distances between the players, knowing you only have two players in the middle, make the shape of the team soft. Therefore, it was too easy for Villareal to hit one or two passes to get through the midfield and connect with their forwards.
It improved in the second half, as did the tempo. The subs again paid off and allowing Cavani and Ronaldo to interchange was great to see.
It is bleedin obvious that Emery had no idea. Because Ole himself had no idea.
This is almost certainly true. That's why, despite sympathising with the views of some people in here, I really think we should all just enjoy this victory.
The season is long and Solskjaer is going to be here for all of it. Next year too, most likely. Find your pleasures where you can - if you cannot take some delight in a last minute CL winner from a club legend, it's probably time to take a step back from the game.
Enjoy tonight - there will be plenty of occasions in the months (possibly years) ahead when you can fill your boots denigrating the manager.
Does Ole and the coaching team get any credit for reviving De Gea?
Complete mess of a team.
Toss 5 attackers out there every week and hope the poor soul left in midfield sweeps up any mess. Spoiler: They don't.
There was a number of occasions last night where there was a line of 5 across the front and McTominay a lone presence in midfield 20 yards behind.
Clowns on here like me can see this is a disaster. Villareal pouring forward time after time proves it and only De Gea's heroics stopped us getting hockeyed.
Why can't a manager getting paid millions see it? Or one of the dozen coaches we have?
Toss 5 attackers out there every week and hope the poor soul left in midfield sweeps up any mess. Spoiler: They don't.
There was a number of occasions last night where there was a line of 5 across the front and McTominay a lone presence in midfield 20 yards behind.
Clowns on here like me can see this is a disaster. Villareal pouring forward time after time proves it and only De Gea's heroics stopped us getting hockeyed.
Why can't a manager getting paid millions see it? Or one of the dozen coaches we have?
How you're not manager of a top European side is beyond me.
I wouldn't count on Solskjaer being as secure as people say. You don't bring in Ronaldo for success in the future, you bring in Ronaldo for success now, and he's going to be a big influence in the dressing room/behind the scenes too. Right now it's really hard to see Utd finishing higher than 4th, there is still time to change that of course as our form could pick up, but if we finish a distant 4th and win no trophies I think it will be hard for him to keep the job, it would be really hard to claim that as progress. I think the pressure is on to show a marked improvement, as otherwise serious questions are going to be asked of a team that finished 2nd last year and come close to trophies which then added Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane in the summer.
Isn't there a guy on the transfer commitee that has worked with European Cup winners? Is there people on the transfer committee who worked under Fergie?
I'm sure they'll have a good idea on who to appoint. And the transfer committee was formed in 2018 which gave the clubs newly formed recruitment structure some actual power for the first time post Fergie. The next man in will likely be a head coach and not someone who will manage the recruitment, because we don't need him to manage that side anymore.
Lingard had an assist. And if it didn’t go through he honestly was fouled for a penalty. Could we agree on that?
Yeah, bring on the shit old argument that you have to be a top European coach to even comment on a playing setup of a club. Give me a break !
Debatable. I don't think it would have been given . Saw that again now.
Still doesn't change anything what I said.
Sincerely hope he is waiting for us. Fingers crossed. Can't afford to see him at Spurs or any other English clubs.
Managers don't wait for clubs, especially not clubs like United who seem to be backing the Ole horse til death. If he didn't get fired during that horror run in early 2019-20 season he's definitely not getting fired anytime soon.
Anyone has a screen capture of our shit formation in the game when all of our attacking players line up in the straight line and stand still ? I remember ronaldo pogba bruno sancho and greenwood standing static in a straight line when mctominay was alone in the midfield
Below is a article from the Liverpool press from 2019, which gives some detail on how Liverpool's transfer committee went from being a laughing stock to the envy of Europe. And the issue the transfer committee had, which was led by Michael Edwards with Barry Hunter and Dave Fallows as the chief scouts, was that their efforts were being undermined by Brendan Rodgers who FSG had given considerable control to. So the lines of communication between both the coaching staff and recruitment staff became non existent with both groups having different strategies when it came to recruitment.
So FSG backed both groups and Rodgers was granted his wish of signing Christian Benteke for a considerable sum in the summer of 2015. And FSG also backed the transfer committee in their data driven approach and went ahead and bought Roberto Firminho in the same summer. Rodgers eventually got the sack and Klopp came in and opened the lines of communication with the Transfer committee and relied on Edwards and his team to provide him with the help he needed when it comes to recruiting the correct players.
Klopp was a head coach who was accustomed to working with a recruitment department who controlled who comes and who goes. And it was normal for him to embrace Liverpool's recruitment structure which not only relied on scouting but was also data driven.
I think there's some parallels to be drawn between us and them.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...w-liverpools-transfer-committee-went-16479508
So FSG backed both groups and Rodgers was granted his wish of signing Christian Benteke for a considerable sum in the summer of 2015. And FSG also backed the transfer committee in their data driven approach and went ahead and bought Roberto Firminho in the same summer. Rodgers eventually got the sack and Klopp came in and opened the lines of communication with the Transfer committee and relied on Edwards and his team to provide him with the help he needed when it comes to recruiting the correct players.
Klopp was a head coach who was accustomed to working with a recruitment department who controlled who comes and who goes. And it was normal for him to embrace Liverpool's recruitment structure which not only relied on scouting but was also data driven.
I think there's some parallels to be drawn between us and them.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...w-liverpools-transfer-committee-went-16479508
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We tried to play 4-3-3 against Villareal but it became us trying to play 2-3-5 in possession with our CAMs (Pogba and Fernandes) injecting themselves inbetween the ST (Ronaldo) and the wing-forwards (Greenwood, Sancho) and the FBs pushing up into midfield either side of McTominay. Interestingly, the night before, City played a superficially similar 2-3-5 formation at PSG. City's wingers kept playing short balls behind the defensive line for Sterling (playing ST) and the CAMs (De Bruyne and Bernardo Silva) to make sharp runs onto as did United's wingers playing short balls for Utd's CAMs and ST. In addition, like Sancho and Greenwood, the wing-forwards of City (Mahrez and Grealish) kept trying to dribble past the opposing fullbacks and make inroads towards the centre.
There was a huge difference, though. City was able to be patient and possess the ball and created many chances (they had an xG advantage away at PSG even though they lost 2-0). Utd, OTOH, couldn't hold the ball, the short-ball runs were blunt, not sharp, and the wing-forwards had no joy against the opposing FBs. Because Utd wasn't patient and kept losing the ball, the counter-attacks kept coming back at them but, luckily for Utd, because Villareal didn't have a strike-force they scored only 1 goal, way below their xG, as compared with PSG who outperformed their xG by scoring 2 with MNM. Utd were bailed out by a (lucky) set-piece goal by Telles and a scramble at the end by clutch Ronaldo (and because Villareal are not PSG) but never looked like they understood their roles in the system.
The problem with Utd (after 2 years and 10 months of Ole) is that we still don't look like we understand tactical football. We have 3 inexperienced-at-the-top-level coaches (Ole, McKenna and Carrick) who keep changing the system with little advantage. We can use individual brilliance to out-attack wide-open systems (a la Leeds) but are ineffective attacking the low-block. We look defensively dicey in systems with 5 attackers and 5 defenders like a 4-3-3 and in a 3-5-2 (or 3-5-1 against Young Boys) and can only seem secure in systems with 4 attackers and 6 defenders like the double-pivots of our usual McFred 4-2-3-1 and 4-2-2-2 (with Pogba as a LF who comes inside).
Individual brilliance (Lingard at West Ham, Ronaldo at Villareal) will get us through some games against teams with worse players (like Villareal) but we will fall at the first sign of a cohesive team with good players. Also, this reliance on individual attacking brilliance (or "expression") has tactical costs. Ronaldo just walked around when Villareal had the ball. This meant that the Villareal GK and CBs would (very funnily) just hold the ball for huge amounts of time while playing out safe in the belief that Ronaldo wasn't going to bother them. This time afforded Villareal's CMs to get free of their markers in midfield and show for a leisurely-made pass that immediately split our press.
Once split, their wingers ate up our FBs (second-choice but part of our "great" 2-eleven squad). When Varane went walkabout into midfield to try and get the ball in the second-half but missed, the ball went out against Dalot who failed to challenge Danjuma and Lindelof failed to challenge the feared Alcacer. On the other side, Telles kept showing Yeremy Pino inside and, yet, failed to make a challenge when Pino shot.
We got EXTREMELY lucky against Villareal yesterday. If DDG had even had a normal game we would have lost by 3. I used to think we needed a DM but McTominay actually played fine yesterday. Our main problem is that we don't understand and can't play tactical football. Until that is fixed we will never win the PL or CL.
What if our problem is that our players just don't want to play together? The group of players we have should really play well without a coach. It is either that we have some sort of issues within the team or that everyone crumbles under pressure cause they are afraid to f up. Two UCL games and in both we were dominated. Embarrassing.
I am really struggling to find a reason why we struggle so much. Coach? I mean this is the same coach who beat Chelsea, Manchester City and Liverpool last year. There is freaking whole team behind Ole... 5 of these guys don't know how to set up basic tactics to pass a football around a pitch so we don't give it to opposing player after 2 completed passes: https://assets.manutd.com/AssetPick...84758AA6144CB62563D6C025E4A01545399534573.jpg
We have faced same issues under every coach thus far: Being slow, being passive, looking uninspired and total lack of football creativity. Actually that Bruno pass to Telles today... Not sure where that came from, but it is a sweet cherry on top of a turd.
Maybe we don't need a coach at all. Maybe too much tactics is the problem but not lack of tactics. Sometimes you just need to play football out there... Freely.
All right, I am going to sleep. Had a few beers as you probably can tell.
I am really struggling to find a reason why we struggle so much. Coach? I mean this is the same coach who beat Chelsea, Manchester City and Liverpool last year. There is freaking whole team behind Ole... 5 of these guys don't know how to set up basic tactics to pass a football around a pitch so we don't give it to opposing player after 2 completed passes: https://assets.manutd.com/AssetPick...84758AA6144CB62563D6C025E4A01545399534573.jpg
We have faced same issues under every coach thus far: Being slow, being passive, looking uninspired and total lack of football creativity. Actually that Bruno pass to Telles today... Not sure where that came from, but it is a sweet cherry on top of a turd.
Maybe we don't need a coach at all. Maybe too much tactics is the problem but not lack of tactics. Sometimes you just need to play football out there... Freely.
All right, I am going to sleep. Had a few beers as you probably can tell.
Liverpool and Leicester's scouting team must be the best in England. £8 million for Andy Robertson was just pure madness. As for Leicester, don't get me started on Kante, Vardy and Ndidi.
No, nor for beating pep three times last season. Nor for anything
You are referring to the season before last season. Last season Ole only beat Pep once.
When all your attacking players except for 1 CDM line up in a straight line along with the opposition's back line you know it's over for a manager.
It's downed tools and a refusal to be involved in whatever 'formation tactic' Ole has set out for that game.
It's downed tools and a refusal to be involved in whatever 'formation tactic' Ole has set out for that game.
Yesterday's game was a pain to watch. We don't really look like a unit.
We look so lost out there, it hurts. When we attack the players are lost hence we play a long ball and hope for the best
we are so bad
But someone just said "we were excellent" as he has just seen the match after work.
Really not sure what match was he watching.
Launch to Ronaldos head. Yes he can head a ball, but that seems to be our plan a and b.
He got credit that he has Pep in his pocket, but not everybody he faces is Pep so he is still clueless overall. If he faced 19 Pep he would won the league though. What he does versus other team is what matters. Fergie often lose big matches against Chelsea and Liverpool but in the end it does not matter because he won the rest of the games against weaker sides
Yesterday game we actually playing 4141. I can imagine why our coaching team pick this tactics: to counter Emery's 3 MCs in diamond shape, high press and out number them in mid-field to get on the front foot. We all see the reality that, Pogba/Ronaldo did not press at all for whatever reason, Bruno just went too high and lost his man constantly, then we basically left the midfield wild open for Villarreal, until their stamina dropped around 65 mins.
You can just tell how naive our tactics always were: good on paper but never drilled well to make it work. We always lose 1 goal first because we were tactically beaten in the 1st half, then relied on player quality to come back in 2nd half.
You can just tell how naive our tactics always were: good on paper but never drilled well to make it work. We always lose 1 goal first because we were tactically beaten in the 1st half, then relied on player quality to come back in 2nd half.
Nonsense.
Villareal set up to counter. Look at that narrow lines from top to defense in their own half. We barely got 1 v 1 chances for all position. Counter attack is something we have to deal with in this game.
We dealt it well, De Gea dealt it brilliantly.
Villareal seems easy to break us down because we're the ones pushing all game, looked easier for them because of the spaces we left behind, it's end to end stuff. Getting chances in this game is hard, because it was set up that way by Emery.
We won at the end against those cowardly and cnutish tactics, rejoice.
We just look like we go on the pitch so short of idea. I did like a few of our set pieces because at least we looked to be trying a few things.
It's just a bit bleak watching us play at the moment, and with the talent on the pitch, that's inexcusable.
It's just a bit bleak watching us play at the moment, and with the talent on the pitch, that's inexcusable.
Well, he shouldn't get credit for something that didn't happen.
His record against Guardiola is 4-1-3. It's good, yeah, but hardly 'in his pocket'. At Old Trafford, it's 1-1-3 - basically, based on recent history, the away team is the favourite in Manchester derbies.