We are an awfully coached team

AFC NimbleThumb said:
We played shite in both games, no one was overreacting to that dross on the weekend. Nice try though.
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The performances were dire and I'm happy to criticise that win or loss. I was criticising it when we beat West Ham, for example.

But there's no doubt some people went OTT because we lost the Villa game, in a way they wouldn't have if we scrapped a lucky win like today. If we're criticising our coaching it makes sense to focus on the actual performances consistently rather than ebbing and flowing with the results.
 
NK86 said:
When?
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When a smiling Ole ran up behind Pogba to celebrate with him Pogba brushed him off with no emotion on his face.

He's done with him and his 'go out there and enjoy yourself lads' tactics.
 
Maxii said:
Just after the final whistle. Ole runs up behind Pogba, pat on the back, rub of the head, pat on the chest. Ole looking at him and Pogba just stared off into the distance with no acknowledgement to Ole at all
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I just mentioned this scene in the match thread too. That was intriguing to say the least. Either Pogba was unhappy being subbed off or just not happy with ole for other reasons.
 
I'm back.

After 2 straight losses this thread has gone up to 148 pages?

How bad was the whining?
 
Who needs coaching when you have pashun.

I mean obviously we do, but narrative and nostalgia am I right?
 
That's an embarrassing performance. That game was so one-sided in the first half it was a joke. Some of the pundits were struggling to describe what they were watching.

Cavani brought an energy to the team, and we just won by tactics which you see on a Sunday morning all over the country really.

How anyone thinks we will win the Premiership or CL with this Manager is beyond me, and that is what a club of our size should be aiming for. Ole's had 130+ games in charge, and we play like that?

I'm fed up with it.
 
Ole's screen said:
Any new coach would immediately disassemble this team and want "his" players in. I don't think Ole's up to it, but I do think our structural issues make it almost impossible for a proper coach to succeed. I think this is our ceiling until those issues are fixed.
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Like Tuchel did?

Sorry but I don't believe that for a second. We've got one of the best squads in the world right now. They just don't look like it.
 
Ole's screen said:
Any new coach would immediately disassemble this team and want "his" players in. I don't think Ole's up to it, but I do think our structural issues make it almost impossible for a proper coach to succeed. I think this is our ceiling until those issues are fixed.
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Yeah, new coaches sell the entire team they inherit and buy new 11 players. Keep on inventing myths.
 
sullydnl said:
Part of the reason it's not a good idea to overreact to losses like Villa is that it primes other people to shove it in your face when we then win games like this.

In reality losing to Villa wasn't the end of the world, nor is a win off today's performance a positive sign in terms of coaching. It's just that even with our very real problems we are still in net terms a pretty good team.
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Wait what!? If i say this was piss fecking poor on next level, they could score at least 4 in 1st half, had chances in 2nd on top performance being dog shit, other people will shove what exactly in my face, some deluded Ty level nonsense, that probably.
 
Poor performance, yet again. There's just no structure. It's impossible to describe what we're doing because I don't think even the players do.

It's just individual talent/moments and that's it. Even the pressing isn't co-ordinated.
 
captaincantona said:
What are you on about? We were completely shite...our back line appalling...pressing non existent till the 75th minute...attacking clueless...full backs embarrassing...saw Pau Torres put his foot on the ball, in Old Fuking Trafford and stand there for 7 or 8 seconds while everyone fuking watched him! The crowd went bananas! The midfield made Villareals midfield look like a top top side- they aren’t and had they have had their first choice striker we would have been whipped.

Net terms? We were just as bad as any match this season.
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I didn't say we weren't. We were dirt poor in terms of performances, as we have been pretty much all season.

But we still have some excellent players, so we'll get by to a decent level despite those performances. It absolutely doesn't mean there should be no criticism (in fact I'm explicitly saying we shouldn't let positive results gloss over our problems), just that the very OTT end of the pessimism is misfounded.
 
DutchCruijff said:
Poor performance, yet again. There's just no structure. It's impossible to describe what we're doing because I don't think even the players do.

It's just individual talent/moments and that's it. Even the pressing isn't co-ordinated.
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The winning goal was a fantastic team effort?
 
pocco said:
Like Tuchel did?

Sorry but I don't believe that for a second. We've got one of the best squads in the world right now. They just don't look like it.
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Chelsea don't have those structural issues. They hire "head coaches" not "managers". Their recruitment and coaching strategy are separate and the club are designed for 2-3 years cycles of coaching. We on the other hand, just give each manager pretty much full control. Both LvG and Jose pointed to this as issues preventing them from succeeding. Tuchel would, IMO, not have been as successful here as he is at Chelsea.
 
el3mel said:
Yeah, new coaches sell the entire team they inherit and buy new 11 players. Keep on inventing myths.
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Non Ole related but imagine new coach selling bunch of players in United, we barely can get rid of one, while rest we have to either gift or pay to get rid off.
 
Terrible coaching and tactics that result in needing moments to score and DDG to pull masterful saves out the bag. Good enough to keep us competitive but not enough to ever win anything.

We need a change. Happy we won but that was a dreadful performance that only prolongs Ole.
 
Maxii said:
Just after the final whistle. Ole runs up behind Pogba, pat on the back, rub of the head, pat on the chest. Ole looking at him and Pogba just stared off into the distance with no acknowledgement to Ole at all
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Understandably unhappy at being subbed off when the team needed a goal.. I wouldn't be smiling in that situation either. It's good for the team that we have more game changers now.
 
Seeing people defend Ole is mind boggling. We’re a poor side considering our resources, saved by individuals pulling out moments. Either our players are miles worse than we think or we’re badly coached, I don’t see another option here.

I follow a league 1 side home and away with my young boys and I genuinely see more structure, more cohesion and a better system there than I do with United.
 
pocco said:
Just think how good we'll be when we get a top class manager that brings something to the table :drool:
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Every other club: SHHH! Don't give them ideas.

Also every other club: Guys, we're at the point where if we keep outplaying them, they might catch on. Everyone just draw against them now.
 
On and off the ball it’s not good enough, can’t expect to compete at highest level with such a limited manager.
 
As I said in another thread, our entire tactical problems currently seem to come from the fact Ole has absolutely no clue about how to use Ronaldo. He just shoehorned him into the team and expected things to work out on their own like with Cavani, except Ronaldo is completely different from Cavani. Cavani still runs, presses and moves around a lot. Ronaldo has been static, barely has it in him to dribble and is mostly now a classic number 9.

Our entire attack has fallen down because other players don't know what to do with Ronaldo. Instead of having a 3 forwards setup upfront who interchange their positions like previously, we now have a classic poacher in the box and the players are trying instead to make ton of crosses and long balls for him. On the few instances Greenwood and Bruno try to shoot on their own. It has become a complete mess upfront. We look so disjointed and unbalanced. Imagine having Ronaldo up top with Pogba in midfield and Bruno playing closer to a second striker than a number 10, you're basically looking forward to playing with 3 players who are pointless without the ball and 2 of them barely even run (Ronaldo and Pogba).

It's not Ronaldo's problem. It's our manager's problem who bought Ronaldo without having a clue about how the team's dynamics will be once he's in the main lineup. He just expected it work on its own. It's the proof Ole is a terrible coach.
 
R'hllor said:
Wait what!? If i say this was piss fecking poor on next level, they could score at least 4 in 1st half, had chances in 2nd on top performance being dog shit, other people will shove what exactly in my face, some deluded Ty level nonsense, that probably.
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I'm saying if people focus on the actual performance levels in their criticism, then whether we win or lose you can make that point if the performance levels stay at that poor standard.

But some posters went OTT off the back of the Villa result in a way they wouldn't have if we happened to get lucky in that game with the exact same performance, being needlessly obnoxious. And those posters obviously rubbed people up the wrong way, so it just primes the other side of the argument to be obnoxious when we do get those lucky wins.

So, basically, people should be a bit more calm win or lose and that way the forum is a nicer place.
 
Pronewbie said:
Understandably unhappy at being subbed off when the team needed a goal.. I wouldn't be smiling in that situation either. It's good for the team that we have more game changers now.
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Haven't seen it yet but pogbas not normally like that. After a dramatic win he's usually the main one to go crazy.
 
How do we get a balanced team out? We have all these names but their individual talents are massively offset by the tactical flaws they create.

Ronaldo scores but means playing with 10.5 men most of the game. Greenwood and Sancho don't work both ways. Pogba and Bruno have no positional discipline. MCFred both want to chase the ball and not sit.

Chaos upon chaos.
 
If AWB played tonight they wouldn’t have had half as many chances, if any. We won the game, he got the subs right, we dominated in large spells. We made changes mid game that won the game. They are a very good side we beat tonight
 
el3mel said:
Yeah, new coaches sell the entire team they inherit and buy new 11 players. Keep on inventing myths.
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Nobody said that, keep on inventing myths about myths.

Not complete 11, but each coach brings in a few key players that they like that their predecessor didn't and similarly don't like some that they did. You're picking Chelsea out under Tuchel, but he's pretty much the exception and that was mostly because the squad had been assembled specifically with his strengths with two young German players recently bought. Pep had to have 2 transfer windows to get his players in, Jose sidelined crucial first team players under LvG like Blind, Schneiderlin, and Schweiny. Ole did the same with crucial Jose players like Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Lukaku etc. Lets not pretend that a new manager coming in midseason automatically changes the fortunes for the better.
 
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