We are an awfully coached team

[romufc]

We need to work on our pressing. It was very easy to bypass

I will say something controversial here. I don't think our pressing is the biggest issue, its the defensive line.

Everytime we press, we are easy to play against because the defensive line is so far back, if they pushed up 4/5 yards then the opponent will have less space to play into.

I was really watching our defensive line yesterday and it kept dropping, comparing it to a Liverpool who press so well, their defensive line is near the half way line.

Now, I am not saying we need to play that high up but playing too deep is causing us issues because they just dink the ball over our players. We need to try a higher line and faster CB.

 

[golden_blunder]

Our issue is that we are too reliant on Fernandes.

Solksjaer really needs to find a way of getting Pogba back in the fold and working a gameplan around Pogba so that we have different options. Alternatively, have us switch it up when Bruno isn't around and do something completely different.

Instead, we seem to have Plan A... and that's it. If Fernandes is playing well, we do okay. If he's playing shit or not playing at all, we play shit.

That's not good enough. There has to be activity around changing it up.

I think last night when Bruno went off you saw how we will shape up when he’s not playing. We will play slightly different but VdB is still capable of the killer ball.

we need to stop thinking Pogba is the saviour, he’s clearly not suited to PL football. He slows the play down too much, ponderous and lacking urgency

 

[Tribec]

Get yer tin hat. Things could get a bit messy.....

I'm ready for it

 

[OleBoiii]

I love how Ole now is discredited because Bruno "carries" us. The truth of the matter is that a club of our status should have several players of Bruno's skill level(or higher). Most top teams have a handful of players that ultimately make all the difference in the sense that they tip the scales and makes the team go from good to great. The difference is that other top teams tend to have maybe 3 or 4 players like that, so an injury to one of them don't make that much of a difference.

Our team has main 3 issues:

1. Lack of consistency in front of goal.
2. Lack of a proper DM for games where teams press us.
3. Lack of brilliant players. Too many of our players fall into the good-ish category. Fergie's teams often consisted of several players like this, but they never really made up the majority like they do now.

Ole can't be blamed for any of this unless he's specifically told the board that he's happy with what he's got or purposely asked them to not sign goalscorers or DMs.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I think we now know Ole's style, and United's on the pitch. Organised in defence, fast attacking transitions and quick interplay around the box. I like it.

This is pretty much. And also he wants his players to be risk taker which is why often you see us having less possession but more shots.

 

[simplyared]

Yes their yelling has little effect. It could even have bad affect. They are restless characters. Simeone is both a restless man and an easily frustrated man. Pep is always a nervous wreck and Klopp is easily wound up. Those type of people yell a lot. That's never been Ole's character. Ancelotti doesn't yell either. Neither does Zidane. Phil Jackson isn't a yeller and he's maybe the best basketball coach in history. Kobe has specifically talked about how those approaches helped him. Many players respond poorly to be yelled at during a match. Many ignore it.

Look at it differently. Why are they yelling so much? Did they not prepare their players enough and have to make up for it? Maybe partly because they want everything to be perfect but now they can't change it. Most likely it's just impulse. Whatever the reason is it's definitely no proof whether a manager is good coach or a bad coach.

Who's talking yelling? Sounds like a description of Neil Warnock. I'm talking engaging with players from the sideline. You seem to have got the wrong impression.

 

[simplyared]

We controlled the game, apart from a spell late in the 2nd half. Obviously the tight schedule forcing our manager to make changes. Would have liked to see VDB in a more attacking roll, apart from that no critism regarding the players. Even James impressed! Fred ran all over the place as usual and put in a usual Fred performance, although still not convincing imo. Looks like we've got squad depth when you can bring on a diamond (Mason). It's poetry in motion when he gets the ball!
See now this should have gone in the post match thread against Istanbul!

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I think we now know Ole's style, and United's on the pitch. Organised in defence, fast attacking transitions and quick interplay around the box. I like it.

You'd have to see it consistently enough to say it's Ole's style

 

[macheda14]

I dread to think what levels of abuse Fergie would be getting if we had the internet in 86 through to him winning the cup in 90. It would be at least 200 times worse for sure.

I mean there were calls to sack him. However he could easily be afforded more time because there wasn’t as much expectation, we hadn’t been successful for far far longer than our current period. Fans right now have a very real memory of years and years of a crazy amount of success, we’re more expectant for us to return to the top as there is perhaps a misplaced arrogance that we belong there.

 

[Snow]

Who's talking yelling? Sounds like a description of Neil Warnock. I'm talking engaging with players from the sideline. You seem to have got the wrong impression.

How else are you getting your point across then by yelling during a match?

 

[Snow]

I think many would disagree with the first bit. In any workplace, if you have a manager, who is looking over your shoulder (not in a overzealous way i.e Mourinho) you would certainly be doing your job differently. I'm not saying better but differently and that's exactly the whole point of that particular action. You can prepare as much as you want pre-game but a manager's job to make sure the players do their job on the pitch. In a game many things happen that you need to adjust to.

I'm not saying every thing needs to be micro-managed but Ole's lack of action is definitely a net negative.

Not giving instructions, showing anger/passion/support on the sideline or making tactical tweaks is basically one or several tools in the box Ole is not using.

The only excuse I would give for not being on the sidelines and barking instructions is if the team is playing like peak Barca/Spain and completely dominating the opposition. First off, we are in a completely different universe away from that and compartively speaking, the managers of those teams achieved their results in part due to the 'leadership' from the sidelines.

Look at tonight's game for example. For me, the 1st half, start of 2nd and the substitutions was good. Then after 55 mins, it was clear and frankly disgraceful, we were being pinned back by their players. No changes at all until Matic come on in the 80 and it still didn't affect our sloppy, indecisive play. They pressed us high and we couldn't play out from the back and ended hoping a ball would break loose/play for the chance on the counter attacker. Of course it 'worked' because we had already won the game and our players are superior but a lack of sideline activity meant we were playing dour for 30mins. I mean yeah it's 'acceptable' in the 'we won, why concentrate on the negative details' but let's be honest this is not isolated.

P.S Ancelotti and Zidane may not yell like madmen but they are very visible from the sideline.

Many people also disagree that spanking their kids is bad. I use that as an analogy because you used the terrible analogy of your manager looking over your shoulder at work being a good thing. That sounds terrible to me and is an example of why yelling does not work.

 

[simplyared]

How else are you getting your point across then by yelling during a match?

Yelling is negative in my mind and is used often when angry. Again you seem to have the wrong impression!

 

[sammsky1]

yeah, such a poorly coached team
Some posters on here dont have a clue

 

[Leftback99]

yeah, such a poorly coached team
Some posters on here dont have a clue

Maybe they only started coaching that kind of stuff on Monday.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I will say something controversial here. I don't think our pressing is the biggest issue, its the defensive line.

Everytime we press, we are easy to play against because the defensive line is so far back, if they pushed up 4/5 yards then the opponent will have less space to play into.

I was really watching our defensive line yesterday and it kept dropping, comparing it to a Liverpool who press so well, their defensive line is near the half way line.

Now, I am not saying we need to play that high up but playing too deep is causing us issues because they just dink the ball over our players. We need to try a higher line and faster CB.

You're right but, in my humble opinion, wrong in your analysis. We play a high line when in possession - it's not that we sit too deep when we attack - it's that the personnel we have are at odds with the style Ole wants to play. Maguire + Lindelof are both relatively slow and unagile, particularly Maguire who is about as nimble as a barge, and coupled with a keeper who rarely leaves his box there's always a good amount of space for opposition attackers to run into as long as the pass is decently weighted.

If you want to see our biggest weakness defensively, watch the replay of the WBA penalty appeal that was overruled & pay attention to the ball behind Maguire to their striker that is in the phase prior to the penalty - that's where we are always vulnerable with Maguire & Lindelof and I'm amazed their striker didn't go down when Maguire gives him a pull back him because it was guaranteed yellow and potentially red given he was through on goal (although a bit far out to be stonewall).

You're right about closing the space between the defence and midfield being important for pressing but for me that's irrelevant until we actually have a specialist come in to teach the team to press as a unit. It's a very specific way of training - all about triggers that occur when the ball reaches certain zones on the pitch and which players will be 'activated' when it does. I haven't seen us working on it once from the snippets we get to see of training (which I know doesn't mean it's not happening) but given it's been two years with Ole it's fair to say we might not have the right coaches in place currently for that specific style of play.

 

[Foxbatt]

I will say something controversial here. I don't think our pressing is the biggest issue, its the defensive line.

Everytime we press, we are easy to play against because the defensive line is so far back, if they pushed up 4/5 yards then the opponent will have less space to play into.

I was really watching our defensive line yesterday and it kept dropping, comparing it to a Liverpool who press so well, their defensive line is near the half way line.

Now, I am not saying we need to play that high up but playing too deep is causing us issues because they just dink the ball over our players. We need to try a higher line and faster CB.

It's not controversial in my opinion. It's the truth. But we can't play a high defense line with such slow CBs and poor midfielders. If we had some one like Hargreaves as DM we can play with a slow CB. Now we can't.

 

[criticalanalysis]

That post is too funny so I’ll just paste this here:

Yes it is funny because you've just proved exactly my point . The tweet literally says first half. I specifically said I was happy with the first half. Where was he in the 2nd half when we was being pinned back in our own half by fecking IB for a good 20-35mins?

And besides, shouting one-liners from the stands doesn't cut it for me.

Many people also disagree that spanking their kids is bad. I use that as an analogy because you used the terrible analogy of your manager looking over your shoulder at work being a good thing. That sounds terrible to me and is an example of why yelling does not work.

Thanks for glossing over my entire post and where I even specifically say the analogy of a manager looking over your shoulder is a not neccessarily good thing, just a different choice of action. To clarify, a consistent presence and communication is key to affecting and guiding a team. There's no two ways about it.

There's no proof to say you can become a better or lesser manager because of it but you'd be a fool to sit back and let it 'play out'. Conversely, Ole has a distinct lack of 'action' on the sidelines.

You can't turn Stoke into Barca by screaming like a madman but you can definitely improve a team with the smallest margins if you're 'on it' and making your point across to the team. And therein lies the problem, we're lacking in the details and margins.

Why is it so difficult/divisive to acknowledge that whilst Ole has been a breath of fresh air and it's undeniable the players like playing under him, we can't also agree that our tactics and general approach is exactly that, very generic. That's on him and one of the criticisms is that when we have lapses of poor play in a game, there's not enough being done by the single most authorative figure to change that. I know it's tiring to beat him over the stick with with seems like a 'small' thing but instructions and passion from the sidelines is not an intangible thing for me, it's an absolute choice of tool/action; to suggest otherwise is akin to believing the players and the game is played in a robotic manner.

 

[Zlaatan]

Who is well coached in the Prem then? Liverpool have had their sticky moments this season but I think everyone would agree they've been well coached. Spurs I would say have been consistently pretty good this year. Southampton and West Ham (shockingly!) have also generally shaped up well.

Not many names there though. Pep has been a disaster since at least after the 1st lockdown. Arsenal just look clueless half the time, Arteta is so busy fighting fires in their defence that they've forgotten how to attack. Leicester only seem to know how to play when all their first choice players are available, beyond that it's square peg round hole stuff. Wolves only start playing after 75 minutes. Lampard is doing ok but he's bought a whole new team at vast cost, he should be doing ok. He very much seems like a Poundland Ole to me. Villa have been a real surprise package but nobody who watched them play Southampton would say they are well coached. Ancelotti I really like but I honestly don't see much in him coaching wise. Sheffield it's hard to tell because they were superb last season but they have a lot of really shit players, particularly up top. Could Wilder actually achieve success with better players? Not sure, he seems very unwilling to work with non-British players.

Like it or not, Ole and his team are one of the better sets of coaches in the league right now, albeit most definitely not the best. Certainly wouldn't swap him for Nuno, Rodgers, Arteta or Smith right now and I think we all would hate to see Mourinho or Moyes make a triumphant return. So unless you want to take a gamble on Pep or Carlo, the only clearly vastly better manager is Klopp, and Hasenhuttl could perhaps be worth a punt.

Makes it all the stranger that Poch can't get a gig anywhere tbf but again I don't see him as levels above Ole, quite similar in style really and in fact has won even less.

It doesn't matter if there are 5 or 15 teams in the PL that are well coached, what does matter is that we are one of them. We need to improve if we want to step up to the next level and apart from having better players in the squad we still seem to have the same problems we had 18 months ago which have now made me start to doubt that Ole is the right man for the job.

 

[Gasolin]

It's not controversial in my opinion. It's the truth. But we can't play a high defense line with such slow CBs and poor midfielders. If we had some one like Hargreaves as DM we can play with a slow CB. Now we can't.

Hargreaves? I don’t remember him as being fast... we have played sometimes high (vs City) and sometimes low (vs Liverpool) to give a few examples. In some games playing high has resulted in us being countered so we decided to not do that. I think it’s all contextual but as long as it’s compact and we don’t concede I see no issues. The last 9 games after Spurs are showing the right direction.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Maybe they only started coaching that kind of stuff on Monday.

I’ve seen that kind of stuffs a lot since November 2019. So can’t be just on Monday. May be some people just too busy posting on redcafe and Twitter when the match was live and they missed that kind of stuffs.

 

[TwoSheds]

It doesn't matter if there are 5 or 15 teams in the PL that are well coached, what does matter is that we are one of them. We need to improve if we want to step up to the next level and apart from having better players in the squad we still seem to have the same problems we had 18 months ago which have now made me start to doubt that Ole is the right man for the job.

So who's the right coach then? And is he available? Klopp certainly isn't coming here. Like Ole or not, you have to sort out a better coach before sacking him (Poch may be that guy but it's not very obvious), no point in going sideways. Unless you want to gamble on an unproven coach with a massive potential up side of course.

This is like the people who want to sell players that we currently use regularly and don't care if they're replaced, they just want them gone. See the Harry Maguire wind up thread as the latest example.

 

[Gasolin]

So who's the right coach then? And is he available? Klopp certainly isn't coming here. Like Ole or not, you have to sort out a better coach before sacking him (Poch may be that guy but it's not very obvious), no point in going sideways. Unless you want to gamble on an unproven coach with a massive potential up side of course.

This is like the people who want to sell players that we currently use regularly and don't care if they're replaced, they just want them gone. See the Harry Maguire wind up thread as the latest example.

More importantly, we are doing a lot of ground work to do things right under Ole. The team has a will to play in a way that hurts the opposition as much as possible, quickly. For me, these are very positive moves we should keep.

This season, we need all the players to play well so that we can rotate and still grind some wins if it doesn't go our way.
So we better hope there's harmony in the dressing room. As far as I can tell, it seems to be the case.

 

[romufc]

You're right but, in my humble opinion, wrong in your analysis. We play a high line when in possession - it's not that we sit too deep when we attack - it's that the personnel we have are at odds with the style Ole wants to play. Maguire + Lindelof are both relatively slow and unagile, particularly Maguire who is about as nimble as a barge, and coupled with a keeper who rarely leaves his box there's always a good amount of space for opposition attackers to run into as long as the pass is decently weighted.

If you want to see our biggest weakness defensively, watch the replay of the WBA penalty appeal that was overruled & pay attention to the ball behind Maguire to their striker that is in the phase prior to the penalty - that's where we are always vulnerable with Maguire & Lindelof and I'm amazed their striker didn't go down when Maguire gives him a pull back him because it was guaranteed yellow and potentially red given he was through on goal (although a bit far out to be stonewall).

You're right about closing the space between the defence and midfield being important for pressing but for me that's irrelevant until we actually have a specialist come in to teach the team to press as a unit. It's a very specific way of training - all about triggers that occur when the ball reaches certain zones on the pitch and which players will be 'activated' when it does. I haven't seen us working on it once from the snippets we get to see of training (which I know doesn't mean it's not happening) but given it's been two years with Ole it's fair to say we might not have the right coaches in place currently for that specific style of play.

That is just defensive naivety imo, we have seen Maguire exposed to low crosses all the time because he doesn't know how to position himself.

My point about the line is more out of possession than in possession, I watched the line very carefully, alot of times if we push up a few yards, Fred and VDB would engage players higher up without leaving a gap in behind.

We can't press as a unit if the gap between our defence and forward is too big, its easy for players to run into space. Pressing is all about closing passing lanes and suffocating teams, which is why Poch, Klopp, Pep play such a high line. Yes, you will concede a few goals but we would concede far less chances than we do now IMO.

 

[romufc]

It's not controversial in my opinion. It's the truth. But we can't play a high defense line with such slow CBs and poor midfielders. If we had some one like Hargreaves as DM we can play with a slow CB. Now we can't.

I agree, this is why we need a quick CB. This is why when we play Maguir, Lindelof, Matic we look leggy, they are not fatigued, they are slow.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Our pressing was awful against Istanbul and exposed us many times. I don't see us as a pressing team and we can't do it. I think a Bruno VdB and Fred midfield actually balanced and all these players have excellent work rate but we need to be good at pressing for that to work out

 

[VP89]

Maybe they only started coaching that kind of stuff on Monday.

 

[tomaldinho1]

That is just defensive naivety imo, we have seen Maguire exposed to low crosses all the time because he doesn't know how to position himself.

My point about the line is more out of possession than in possession, I watched the line very carefully, alot of times if we push up a few yards, Fred and VDB would engage players higher up without leaving a gap in behind.

We can't press as a unit if the gap between our defence and forward is too big, its easy for players to run into space. Pressing is all about closing passing lanes and suffocating teams, which is why Poch, Klopp, Pep play such a high line. Yes, you will concede a few goals but we would concede far less chances than we do now IMO.

I guess I'm working on the assumption that Ole has told the defence where he wants them to hold their line, so not blaming Maguire for that or saying it's naïve. That particular ball is just something I've seen him caught out with numerous times.
On our line when out of possession, you're right re where it should be to facilitate the press and that's why it's so strange we bought Maguire because the two scenarios we have are:

• We lose possession - the back line doesn't drop off but stays high to give the best chance of a successful press (Liverpool/City/Soton/Leeds) all do this. When it works it's great, when it doesn't it's disastrous (Villa vs Liverpool, Spurs vs Soton for example) but the risk can be alleviated by having at least one rapid CB and/or a sweeper keeper. We have neither.
• We lose possession and the defensive line drops off to account for it's lack of pace. This makes an organised press very difficult but is lower risk.

I personally think until Henderson starts or we find a faster CB, we can't afford to stay high like the aforementioned teams do. There is a personnel issue with both the players and the staff at the club when it comes to pressing. Maguire/Lindelof is very exploitable with DDG behind them in a high line but that alone would be workable as Southampton have two relatively slow CBs as well. The issue is that we shouldn't even be talking about pressing until we find a coach (whether manager or a 1st team coach) who is an expert on coaching an organised press. That's what we lack first and foremost and is why teams with vastly inferior players are so much better drilled than us when it comes to pressing as a unit.

 

[Zlaatan]

So who's the right coach then? And is he available? Klopp certainly isn't coming here. Like Ole or not, you have to sort out a better coach before sacking him (Poch may be that guy but it's not very obvious), no point in going sideways. Unless you want to gamble on an unproven coach with a massive potential up side of course.

This is like the people who want to sell players that we currently use regularly and don't care if they're replaced, they just want them gone. See the Harry Maguire wind up thread as the latest example.

I said that I've started to doubt he's the right guy for the job, that's not even remotely close to the same thing as wanting to sell players and not caring if they are replaced.

I don't know who the right coach is and since I'm not Woodward I don't need to know that just because I believe that Ole might not be it. I haven't said that I have a solution or even that we should sack him, I've simply started to doubt that Ole is a good enough manager to make us a genuine contender again and that I'm not seeing much improvement compared to where we were 18 months ago, that's it.

It's also pretty ironic that you asked if I wanted to gamble on an unproven manager with a massive potential upside, because that's exactly what we did when we hired Ole.

 

[TwoSheds]

I said that I've started to doubt he's the right guy for the job, that's not even remotely close to the same thing as wanting to sell players and not caring if they are replaced.

I don't know who the right coach is and since I'm not Woodward I don't need to know that just because I believe that Ole might not be it. I haven't said that I have a solution or even that we should sack him, I've simply started to doubt that Ole is a good enough manager to make us a genuine contender again and that I'm not seeing much improvement compared to where we were 18 months ago, that's it.

It's also pretty ironic that you asked if I wanted to gamble on an unproven manager with a massive potential upside, because that's exactly what we did when we hired Ole.

I didn't ask you anything, those were general comments but ok.

Here is a question to you though, if you sign an unproven coach as a gamble, how long do you need to give them before you roll the dice again assuming they're giving middling results, but not maybe what you'd hoped for yet? 2 years, 3? More?

 

[Bilbo]

Our pressing was awful against Istanbul and exposed us many times. I don't see us as a pressing team and we can't do it. I think a Bruno VdB and Fred midfield actually balanced and all these players have excellent work rate but we need to be good at pressing for that to work out

Fans are too obsessed with pressing nowadays IMO. It is not the only way to win football matches and it also has its drawbacks as a strategy.

 

[Foxbatt]

Hargreaves? I don’t remember him as being fast... we have played sometimes high (vs City) and sometimes low (vs Liverpool) to give a few examples. In some games playing high has resulted in us being countered so we decided to not do that. I think it’s all contextual but as long as it’s compact and we don’t concede I see no issues. The last 9 games after Spurs are showing the right direction.

Hargreaves was one of the quickest we had. He was one of the best tacklers too and his reading of the game was very good. His covering of the CBs by dropping into the spaces they leave surprised me the very first time he played. Then I remembered that he came from Bayern. When he and Ando were fit they bossed all the midfield in the PL.

 

[Gasolin]

Yes it is funny because you've just proved exactly my point . The tweet literally says first half. I specifically said I was happy with the first half. Where was he in the 2nd half when we was being pinned back in our own half by fecking IB for a good 20-35mins?

And besides, shouting one-liners from the stands doesn't cut it for me.



Thanks for glossing over my entire post and where I even specifically say the analogy of a manager looking over your shoulder is a not neccessarily good thing, just a different choice of action. To clarify, a consistent presence and communication is key to affecting and guiding a team. There's no two ways about it.

There's no proof to say you can become a better or lesser manager because of it but you'd be a fool to sit back and let it 'play out'. Conversely, Ole has a distinct lack of 'action' on the sidelines.

You can't turn Stoke into Barca by screaming like a madman but you can definitely improve a team with the smallest margins if you're 'on it' and making your point across to the team. And therein lies the problem, we're lacking in the details and margins.

Why is it so difficult/divisive to acknowledge that whilst Ole has been a breath of fresh air and it's undeniable the players like playing under him, we can't also agree that our tactics and general approach is exactly that, very generic. That's on him and one of the criticisms is that when we have lapses of poor play in a game, there's not enough being done by the single most authorative figure to change that. I know it's tiring to beat him over the stick with with seems like a 'small' thing but instructions and passion from the sidelines is not an intangible thing for me, it's an absolute choice of tool/action; to suggest otherwise is akin to believing the players and the game is played in a robotic manner.

I see you have started mentioning the tactics again... it's a bit tiering, but I'll just put 2 threads here because it's cumbersome to have to repeat the same again and again.



And the tactical thread that is also linked to that one, since you seem to think our tactic is "generic".



Our tactic is not generic or whatever. We have a clear intention, we ask for a high intensity and relentless pressing in the final third, while we play on the strength of our front 4: pace and fluidity.

We have a starting 11 that can play that style, but not all our subs can. We are addressing this, through transfers and/or coaching. This is what we are going through right now, and this is why Ole has to stay, because he's building a winning squad with starters and subs. Manchester United will reap the fruits of this hard work, finally.

 

[VP89]

I love how Ole now is discredited because Bruno "carries" us. The truth of the matter is that a club of our status should have several players of Bruno's skill level(or higher). Most top teams have a handful of players that ultimately make all the difference in the sense that they tip the scales and makes the team go from good to great. The difference is that other top teams tend to have maybe 3 or 4 players like that, so an injury to one of them don't make that much of a difference.

Our team has main 3 issues:

1. Lack of consistency in front of goal.
2. Lack of a proper DM for games where teams press us.
3. Lack of brilliant players. Too many of our players fall into the good-ish category. Fergie's teams often consisted of several players like this, but they never really made up the majority like they do now.

Ole can't be blamed for any of this unless he's specifically told the board that he's happy with what he's got or purposely asked them to not sign goalscorers or DMs.

This post is a bit random, because in the Ole sack thread you pointed to our form since Bruno arrived to praise Ole. And now you are suggesting Bruno hasn't really been carrying the team despite the results completely changing following his introductions - so what is it?

As for your 3 issues: 1) Have we always had a better XG than our scoreline suggests? 2) Our general team pressing is bad, one DM doesn't change this? I don't see us press as a team high up the pitch for example and as a DM with flaws, pressing isn't one of them for Fred and 3) sure brilliant players will make any manager look better. I think there are some top players here already though.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Don't remember Hargreaves ever being positively rapid - but he certainly wasn't slow.

And he was very good, both centrally and laterally.

Injuries, injuries - the old story. Nothing wrong with his potential - quite to the contrary, he was extremely promising.

 

[meamth]

I see you have started mentioning the tactics again... it's a bit tiering, but I'll just put 2 threads here because it's cumbersome to have to repeat the same again and again.



And the tactical thread that is also linked to that one, since you seem to think our tactic is "generic".



Our tactic is not generic or whatever. We have a clear intention, we ask for a high intensity and relentless pressing in the final third, while we play on the strength of our front 4: pace and fluidity.

We have a starting 11 that can play that style, but not all our subs can. We are addressing this, through transfers and/or coaching. This is what we are going through right now, and this is why Ole has to stay, because he's building a winning squad with starters and subs. Manchester United will reap the fruits of this hard work, finally.

The combination of quick passing on the final third is always the hallmark of Ole's tactics.

Some supporters are too foolish or blinded by their hatred to see that.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

The combination of quick passing on the final third is always the hallmark of Ole's tactics.

Some supporters are too foolish or blinded by their hatred to see that.

And how many times have we seen this in Oles 2 years. It's true when teams have a go at us we can transition quickly but against teams that sit back (the majority?) we struggle .

 

[OleBoiii]

This post is a bit random, because in the Ole sack thread you pointed to our form since Bruno arrived to praise Ole. And now you are suggesting Bruno hasn't really been carrying the team despite the results completely changing following his introductions - so what is it?

I have always been of the opinion that the quality of a team's players will determine 80% of the results. Of course Bruno has made a difference. Regardless of who's in charge, he would help the team transform for the better. But this is not a discredit to Ole. Without Pogba our attacking midfield was simply disastrous. The likes of Lingard and Pereira wouldn't start for a relegation team. And if they did, then they'd probably one of the worst players on the pitch. Bruno's arrival is just as much a return to how things should be as they are a brilliant signing coming in and changing the team. It's also worth noting that not every manager would necessarily have gotten such good results even with Bruno.

The job of a United manager, in my opinion, is to make a very good team great and/or keep a great team great. Being able to turn a midtable team into a top 4 team is impressive, but it's also a completely different task, and ultimately not what United needs. We need to aim higher than that. And that starts with the squad. We need a "Bruno" in defense and attack as well. Then we can start to focus on whether or not the coach is up for the task(within limits, obviously. We need CL football for instance).

I think there are some top players here already though.

The only outfield player right now who could proudly and without hesitation claim to be able to walk into a United team in the Fergie era and not look out of place, is Bruno. Maybe AWB, but that's just because the rightback position was an achilles' heel for a while.

My main point is that we need more players like Bruno. Players like him don't grown on trees, but it's not unreasonable to expect at least 2-3 players of the same quality in the starting XI. Liverpool arguably have 6 players like this.

 

[Gasolin]

And how many times have we seen this in Oles 2 years. It's true when teams have a go at us we can transition quickly but against teams that sit back (the majority?) we struggle .

We've seen it at the first run, and then the 20 unbeaten games run post lockdown, etc? In fact, that run started even before the lockdown, a month or so before Bruno was transferred I think, early Jan. We have enough samples that show sustained runs of games that rely on that. After that, we also explain the issue we are facing in term of personal, especially the subs, and how we are addressing them. In those runs, we have faced, and beaten, all kind of teams, including those with a low block. That narrative is wrong and has to stop.

 

[wolvored]

I will say something controversial here. I don't think our pressing is the biggest issue, its the defensive line.

Everytime we press, we are easy to play against because the defensive line is so far back, if they pushed up 4/5 yards then the opponent will have less space to play into.

I was really watching our defensive line yesterday and it kept dropping, comparing it to a Liverpool who press so well, their defensive line is near the half way line.

Now, I am not saying we need to play that high up but playing too deep is causing us issues because they just dink the ball over our players. We need to try a higher line and faster CB.

Thts it in a nutshell. We play an higher line with Maguire and Lindelof we are doomed to failure. Any speed merchant would be away before they had turned, with a ball over the top.

 

[romufc]

Thts it in a nutshell. We play an higher line with Maguire and Lindelof we are doomed to failure. Any speed merchant would be away before they had turned, with a ball over the top.

We are failing now aren't we?

Because of this, our midfielders and forwards are having to run alot more because of our slow back line. Which means we are not getting the most out of them going forward.

When we lose the ball, we cant win it back quick enough because our defence as soon as we lose it drops to almost the edge of our box (exaggeration) giving the opponents acres of space to play. We can have a high press but if the defence is so far back, they can play through the press.

Its really annoying how far our defensive line drops and even if the ball is played in the channels Maguire and Lindelof are so scared of being skinned, they do not engage the attackers ever meaning they gain ground.