You are not coming across well at all in this thread.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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You are not coming across well at all in this thread.
Sorry to hear that, Your opinion validates my existence.
I’m watching PSG and thinking we really wouldn’t be any better off under Poch. So so boring.
Uhoh, hope you've got yer tinhat.
Of course we have the ability to analyse it. Loads of people do. Analysing it isn't particularly difficult at all.
What we can't do is coach it, which is much more difficult than analysing it. That's where the actual expertise comes in and why we're not all football coaches. After all, all those high level courses aren't there to teach you about these concepts, they're there to teach you how to coach these concepts.
You seem to think there's some sort of secret information involved here that people outside the top level of football don't have access to. When in reality these are all widely published and freely available ideas that you can learn or be taught without any involvement in football whatsoever. Just because you don't have that knowledge doesn't change the fact that it's widely available enough that other people do. I mean I just linked you to an easily googleable document that would teach you a fair bit in itself.
PSG played absolute tumescent football in the CL game as well. Were almost outplayed.
It is quite the clunky game too. Every 5 minutes someone gets their head kicked in.
It’s smash and grab stuff really. They’re defending deep to draw their opponents out and then hoping that front four do something on the break.
It‘s not very watchable and it’s not going to get the best out of Messi. He likes to be in a team where players come towards him when he’s got the ball, not run away.
I think our lack of reliance on a "system" kinda suits us at the moment. We have genuine star quality up front, and unpredictable players that can come up with a moment of real quality.
What's lacking is just that quality in midfield. Chelsea for example, look a team that are brilliantly coached, and very settled in their system.
Credit to Tuchel for that, but I don't think we necessarily need to follow that blueprint to be successful. I don't remember us being anything special tactically under SAF.
What's lacking is just that quality in midfield. Chelsea for example, look a team that are brilliantly coached, and very settled in their system.
Credit to Tuchel for that, but I don't think we necessarily need to follow that blueprint to be successful. I don't remember us being anything special tactically under SAF.
We’re probably not a ‘badly’ coached team, there were big games last season where the defensive shape/structure/pressing intensity were well evident, the problem is that our rivals are better and this is going to be our downfall over the course of the season. I think we’ll get better as the season progresses and we’ll be considered amongst the elite, but we won’t win anything (maybe a domestic cup). Liverpool or Chelsea will win the league this year.
Some just won't be happy until we play exactly the same way as City.
With Ronaldo, Bruno, Greenwood I think it’s ok to rely a lot on individual brilliance and. With these players it’s important to not be to constrained by a system, but have a nice balance. Ad hoc individual brilliance could also add something to our play.
I can only talk about by stance about that but I am pretty sure, that many would agree: I don't want us to shift completely away from that individual approach. Lets say it is a balance where on one hand you have total individualism (Brazil 1974 (don't know a better example, not even sure they are a good one
) and you have total collectivism (LVG's United) on the other hand, then I am totally fine to not just stay in the middle but be tending heavily towards individualism. It would just be good to have at least a bit of the other stuff available for some situations. And our slow builtup causes us more problems than it solves, so there would be a need right there.If anything, the last few seasons have shown us just how underrated Fergie's last few teams were tactically.
This place and all the other football forums in that 2009-13 period were full of complaints about our lack of control in midfield, slow passing, lack of physicality, etc etc.
We still scored boatloads of goals in each of those seasons, averaging 85 points. Go back and watch the goal compilations from those seasons and it's amazing how simple we make it look: use the full width of the pitch, drag defences out of position with movement, and overwhelm them.
It's no coincidence we went from unstoppable to borderline midtable when that coaching team left with Fergie and Moyes came in with his plan to play long balls into the channels and put in X crosses per game. Haven't come close to scoring 80 goals in the league since.
He is right, soon you will see Bailly and Jones with another 10 year contract at 250k/week
Nothing wrong with individual brilliance, but you make it sound like it's either one (system) or another (individual brilliance). It's not exclusive, the one works for another. The right system will create more chances for Ronaldo to score, that's the whole point of coaching - the team works to exploit strengths.
It is pretty worrying that we were even put in a situation to be drawing that game. You get an 88th minute goal to take the lead - against a clearly tired opposition - you don't give up a penalty in the 92nd.
We really lack nous. Not sure that's coaching or the players.
We really lack nous. Not sure that's coaching or the players.
We have scored the highest number of goals in the league so far something which we did for a large part of last season. If our attacking coaching was so non existent and had no patterns drilled into them that wouldn't be the case. Unless you think all our goals are down to individual brilliance or players making decisions on the spot.
These kneejerk analysis only come out every other week when we score 1 or 2 but still win the games but are nowhere to be seen when we are scoring 4s and 5s. City the holy grail of attacking coaching and patterns of play have failed to score twice in five games. So let's wait for us to start struggling to get goals before we have to worry about our attackers not being coached properly.
please don’t.. it’s absolutely brutal to watch. That’s not football, that’s one man’s vision of football and in my opinion. It’ just horrible
Poch just threw his players on the pitch and told them to do whatever they'd want
It would have been 3-1 and game over if Atkinson wasn’t a cnut.
Messi is the real coach of PSG.
I said in a post before that that we obviously have some structures and patterns. It would be insane to think otherwise, we're not run by people new to football.
I'm saying that those structures and patterns need to be better. In the same way we obviously had set-piece ideas and structures last season, but they needed to be better too, so we hired a new coach to specifically improve us in that regard.
And as I also pointed out in that prior post, it isn't just about attacking. Coaching these things helps defensively too, as you're less vulnerable to the opposition press, less likely to give the ball away in dangerous areas and less likely to get caught out of position in transition.
Hard to complain when we are doing well in the league but our performances look 'unconvincing as title contenders'
Patterns of play
Near certain you go back to last season in this same thread was ladz in rubbishing tjay term who actually done their coaching badges
What I mean is that I feel like SAF left a lot of personal responsibility on the players on the pitch to make decisions, whereas Pep and Tuchel seem very focused on positioning, set-up etc.
You've hit the nail on the head though. We played a very simple, but effective brand of football. But it's also worth noting SAF had a brilliant squad at his disposal. Someone always seemed to deliver when it mattered.
One thing I feel we always had was someone who could beat a man. Ronaldo, Giggs, Nani, Valencia to name a few. Having that ability in your team is underrated, especially with today's posession-based game. It's why I feel like we greatly miss Rashford at the moment.
Defo the coaching for Shaw to leave his arm hanging out like that for the penalty, and prob Coaching fault VAR and aktinson weren't interested in reviewing clear penalty shouts
Yeah, I pretty much agree with you on this. This thread is the ideal place for all these geniuses to get together and pat each other on the back. I wish they’d stay in here but they plaster this crap all over the forum.
Of course, but with Atkinson that's a given.
Nothing wrong with being a Utd fan who is happy for the win but who knows we were bailed out by a worldie and our keepers first penalty save since he was u9’s! Had we of drawn, people would be glossing over the performance less. Forget possession stats- with your own two eyes- did we dominate West Ham and create genuine chances that should have been converted? Or were we slow and pretty sterile most of the game? I’d say the latter...the point being, with the squad we have, we shouldn’t be relying on late comebacks and individuals saving our ass. Great win- not a great performance by any stretch.
Yeah Its like a clueless prats version of the socrates method
Absolutely. I am surprised some on here seem to suggest that our style of play (lack of...) is not a concern. Today was typical United under OGS.... no flamin' structure, leadership.. just a group of players waiting for something to happen. And, today, it did. If that is a strategy that some are happy with, then fine. But as a fan, I am not, and this is not unique...West Ham were flat, poor, without their main player, and how did we look? Wolves, Young Boys... look at the squad we have? How many players do we need to look a confident, well drilled, coherent team?
Look at City, Liverpool, Chelsea and us, and ask yourself, honestly, whether those teams have a clear identity to their play, which is both suucessful and effective, and ask whether we do.
Are we better than last season? I'm not so sure.
For what? As long as we are scoring freely I don't see any need to call out our attacking coaching as an area that needs drastically improved. There are other things that we can improve but scoring goals is the least of our worries right now. I don't care if we don't put 100 passes for every goal or walk the ball into the goal. As long as we keep scoring at the current rate something we were doing before adding Ronaldo I'm fine with it.
We scored twice at West ham away after being denied a couple of pens and having quite a few chances otherwise. Meanwhile City couldn't come up with a goal at home vs Southampton a team that's lost a couple of their starting defenders. The fact that we have been able to come back to win after going down so many times in last few months actually is a massive compliment to our scoring threat and prowess something that didn't do under the previous managers. Bar the odd game here and there pretty much most games I've watched over the last 12 months I've always felt that we look like scoring anytime in the game and that's what we do. And we've only added to that now. We are going to have a front four this season where all of them can easily score at any given time. City is the only other team in the league that can compare to that.
Buddy, you thought patterns of play were a made up thing only to get pointed to UEFA A License coaching material that explained exactly what they were.
If I lost an argument as definitively as that, I'd probably stop calling others clueless. Being wrong is fine, being obnoxious less so.
I said the fact we have silly fans who seem to think we dont have them are making it up.
Work on your comprehension of written English pal. You writing 44 paragraphs of guff counts for nothing when its to support an argument that 2+2= garlic bread
As I said, the coaching I'm talking about relates to defence just as much as attack.
So in terms of "for what?", so the passages of play where we struggle to create chances (two shots in half an hour against Young Boys while we had 11 men), or get caught out in transition (the team with the most counter attacks conceded so far this season going into this week, at 6 per match) or have difficulty playing out from the back (as in the Wolves game), or struggle with opposition press (as in the Southampton game) are less frequent. Because improving in those areas will make us a better team.
I mean we haven't won a trophy in quite a while at this point (by our standards). I would have thought the need for us to improve in the areas we are week is pretty apparent. We want to be the best team in the league, don't we?
Have you ever seen Lars Lagerbacks teams? He is the definition of shit on a stick football. Was having a party when we got rid of him. Negative and pedestrian football.
oh, for feck's sake - have some perspective. We finished second last year. It is not actually the case that YBB/Wolves is how we REALLY are, while the big, impressive wins are some sort of mirage. It's possible to talk of shortcomings without jumping off a cliff here.
I've seen him beat England with Iceland in a TOURNAMENT. Just that should tell you something about his ability. Anyway, he was ace as the Swedish coach too, and from listening to him and seeing his results, he is clearly a very, very good coach, regardless of what you think of his football.
Yeah for sure and I was pretty much talking about our attack and in particular goalscoring as I saw your example of city scoring goals in a particular pattern. As I said there are things we can improve on but creating chances and scoring goals isn't one of them. It's actually something we are statistically best in the league at, or thereabouts. Talking about the PL that is.