Wayne Rooney | Having medical

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The motivation may have been the same but the actions were different.

As I said above: Rooney questioned the manager and quality of his team mates.

I cannot think of another United player who has done that in the Fergie era and stayed at the club and rightly so.

But this is precisely where your reasoning (as I take it - I could be wrongly interpreting it, of course) escapes me: It was Fergie himself - the offended party, as it were - who made the call at the end of the day: He decided that Rooney was an important enough cog in the machinery to keep him. So - was he wrong?

I don’t quite get it: Rooney made a move, Fergie made a move in response - and on the face of it the whole affair turned out well enough. Rooney did very well for us for a good while after the incident in question - so Fergie’s decision, as a managerial call, seems to have been the right one. Does it matter, then, that Rooney acted selfishly (as you put it above)? To me, it doesn’t. I don’t expect footballers to act in any other way - if they don’t act selfishly when it comes to contracts and money, it’s an unprecedented bonus.

Anyway, I think this subject is exhausted as far as my contributions are concerned. My basic stance remains this: Do I approve of Rooney’s actions? No. Do I really care, though? No. He’s a football player - what he does or doesn’t do on the pitch is pretty much all that matters. In a football sense, Fergie’s call stands up to scrutiny - that’s all I’m interested in.
 
But this is precisely where your reasoning (as I take it - I could be wrongly interpreting it, of course) escapes me: It was Fergie himself - the offended party, as it were - who made the call at the end of the day: He decided that Rooney was an important enough cog in the machinery to keep him. So - was he wrong?

I don’t quite get it: Rooney made a move, Fergie made a move in response - and on the face of it the whole affair turned out well enough. Rooney did very well for us for a good while after the incident in question - so Fergie’s decision, as a managerial call, seems to have been the right one. Does it matter, then, that Rooney acted selfishly (as you put it above)? To me, it doesn’t. I don’t expect footballers to act in any other way - if they don’t act selfishly when it comes to contracts and money, it’s an unprecedented bonus.

Anyway, I think this subject is exhausted as far as my contributions are concerned. My basic stance remains this: Do I approve of Rooney’s actions? No. Do I really care, though? No. He’s a football player - what he does or doesn’t do on the pitch is pretty much all that matters. In a football sense, Fergie’s call stands up to scrutiny - that’s all I’m interested in.

Fair enough. I understand where you are coming from and if you don't mind players publicly criticising the manager and his teammates that's fine. I don't like it and I think it was against the ethos on which the success of the club was built.

United were at a low ebb when Rooney made his comments. United had made a huge investment in Rooney and couldn't afford to lose a player of his quality at the time (which Rooney/Stretford knew). Fergie kept him, subsequently added quality and phased him out.

I do think Fergie and Rooney's relationship deteriorated significantly over the years. Rooney (and Rio too) was signed to be a long term future leader and captain of the club. He regularly took the arm band late in games early in his career and did so less and less as time wore on despite being more experienced.

He is too selfish to be a successful leader and that's why I have never been his biggest fan.
 
From today's Times by David Walsh:

Bank on Stretford to add to Rooney’s riches

They used to say that Wayne Rooney wouldn’t order a taxi without first calling his agent Paul Stretford and when the player rang, Stretford would tell him to do nothing. He would send a car to pick him up. From the beginning, Rooney invested considered trust in his agent who, in turn, took an almost paternal interest in the player.

During the very public falling out between Rooney and Alex Ferguson in October 2010, it seemed that Ferguson wanted the player to decide where his loyalties lay. Rooney did choose. Stretford was his man. I met Stretford once. It was before an interview with Rooney at the agent’s office.

Speaking just beforehand, I suggested to Stretford that the interview would probably work better if it was a one-on-one. That is, nobody else in the room. He agreed. Rooney showed up. We all had a cup of tea and when the interview began, Stretford stayed in the room, hovering in the background, always within earshot. As if our earlier conversation had never happened.

One thing is certain: Stretford has done a terrific job for Rooney. The story last week about the player receiving a £15.6m pay-off from United if he signed a £600,000-a-week contract with some Chinese club was pure Stretford: why can’t we have our cake and eat it? Do you recall that 2010 crisis at United, Rooney stalling on a contract, Ferguson telling him to show more respect and Stretford subtly getting it out there that Manchester City were prepared to offer £250,000-a-week.

Those difficulties were resolved by a contract that made Rooney United’s highest earner and paid him more than £200,000-a-week. Three years later Rooney was again agitating, not just suggesting he might leave but telling the new manager David Moyes that he was desperate to.

Chelsea were then the suitor and United couldn’t let him go at that moment. They agreed a long-term deal at £300,000-a-week. There will probably be one more move in the summer, one final opportunity for Stretford to again show his talent for making the most financially rewarding deal. Good luck to them.

You suspect Jose Mourinho would have been relieved if Rooney had departed last week
The story doesn’t stack up so well when considering Rooney’s career. Given when and how it started — the 16-year-old’s goal for Everton against Arsenal at Goodison Park, the 17-year-old’s performance for England against Turkey at the Stadium of Light, the 18-year-old’s brilliance against Croatia at the other Stadium of Light in 2004 — his career never quite got there.

Rooney has been fading for years. I remember that night in 2011 against Barcelona in the Champions League final at Wembley. Rooney was playing well at the time, he scored a good goal that evening but couldn’t do the job that Ferguson detailed him to do. United’s manager had asked him to limit Sergio Busquets’ influence on the match.

United’s attacker tried his damnedest but couldn’t get near Busquets. He wasn’t that adaptable and attempts by Louis van Gaal and Roy Hodgson to turn him into a midfielder failed.

You suspect Jose Mourinho would have been relieved if Rooney had departed last week but that didn’t work out and the two will put a brave face on a relationship that has just another three months to run. Stretford will be a busy man between now and then, and if he’s true to past form, Rooney will have a new contract that doesn’t leave him out of pocket.
 
Let me guess: if this thread was full of praise for Rooney, you wouldn't want it closed?
What does it have to do with the praise or disdain of Rooney? The wider subject has been resolved, we reached the height of absurdity that when the manager came out and said that he wasn't leaving the stories still ran in the tabloids contrary to that to the point where the player had to come out himself and tell them that he wasn't leaving.

I don't think it could get any more silly than that. Unless this thread turns into the Wayne Rooney Womans Day Gossip corner thread then I don't see how it has not been resolved and should be closed until the summer when it seems highly logical that he will leave?
 
Fair enough. I understand where you are coming from and if you don't mind players publicly criticising the manager and his teammates that's fine. I don't like it and I think it was against the ethos on which the success of the club was built.

United were at a low ebb when Rooney made his comments. United had made a huge investment in Rooney and couldn't afford to lose a player of his quality at the time (which Rooney/Stretford knew). Fergie kept him, subsequently added quality and phased him out.

I do think Fergie and Rooney's relationship deteriorated significantly over the years. Rooney (and Rio too) was signed to be a long term future leader and captain of the club. He regularly took the arm band late in games early in his career and did so less and less as time wore on despite being more experienced.

He is too selfish to be a successful leader and that's why I have never been his biggest fan.

i kind of get the opposite feeling. He is always willing to be a team player playing in positions like DM CM and all even though he is a forward. I cant think of many who would do that on a regular basis.
 
i kind of get the opposite feeling. He is always willing to be a team player playing in positions like DM CM and all even though he is a forward. I cant think of many who would do that on a regular basis.

I can't think of any that wouldn't if selected there. What would you expect these other players to do? Refuse to play? Apart from Scholes away to Arsenal in a league cup game there is not another instance of this I can remember during Fergie's entire tenure.

He played where he was selected (occasionally in central midfield when he was in poor form up front). Why does that make him any more of a team player than anyone else?
 
Double standards bull shit. Pointless trying to explain to them. 'Fingers in ears time' and all that rubbish. :wenger:
But saying Ronaldo should not be treated as well as he is( because of his antics) doesn't necessary equate to Rooney deserving to be treated better.

I don't think the Rooney dislike is merely because of the antics. It's the antics coupled with his woeful perfomances there after. Had he continued to play well, this would be at the back of people's minds.

In 2010 he questioned our ambitions as a club . The irony being that 7 years later, if we are ambitious, then we can't afford to have him in our team and should and can get better players.
 
So how many appearances do we think he will clock up before he's finally sold?

I think he'll get another 9 appearances, 7 of then being as a sub.
 
But saying Ronaldo should not be treated as well as he is( because of his antics) doesn't necessary equate to Rooney deserving to be treated better.

I don't think the Rooney dislike is merely because of the antics. It's the antics coupled with his woeful perfomances there after. Had he continued to play well, this would be at the back of people's minds.

In 2010 he questioned our ambitions as a club . The irony being that 7 years later, if we are ambitious, then we can't afford to have him in our team and should and can get better players.

Not even 7 years later. In 2010 his issue was the lack of quality signings. In 2013 his issue was that one of those quality signings he wanted took his position in the team.
 
So how many appearances do we think he will clock up before he's finally sold?

I think he'll get another 9 appearances, 7 of then being as a sub.


Agreed, hope to God he doesnt start today.

He'll get one more goal. And just to annoy you and I he will get three more "assists" (he's due a laughable shot from outside the box i reckon, that falls to Zlatan....you know the rest)
 
What does it have to do with the praise or disdain of Rooney? The wider subject has been resolved, we reached the height of absurdity that when the manager came out and said that he wasn't leaving the stories still ran in the tabloids contrary to that to the point where the player had to come out himself and tell them that he wasn't leaving.

I don't think it could get any more silly than that. Unless this thread turns into the Wayne Rooney Womans Day Gossip corner thread then I don't see how it has not been resolved and should be closed until the summer when it seems highly logical that he will leave?

Mourinho didn’t say he wasn’t leaving. He said that you should ask Wayne, and he would never push out a club legend. That if Rooney left, it’d be because Wayne himself wanted out.
 
3 more months left. He wont make more than 10 appearances for us. He was clearly disgruntled in February, not happy that he wasnt happy, and he was clearly angling for a move which is why we had these reports he was sick. Then for whatever reason the moves didnt work out, he has now decided to stay and 'help' the club. I for one cannot wait for the day he finally leaves. Has not been good enough for the past 3 seasons and I am happy we finally have a manager who has the balls to and clever mind to oust him in a clever way
 
3 more months left. He wont make more than 10 appearances for us. He was clearly disgruntled in February, not happy that he wasnt happy, and he was clearly angling for a move which is why we had these reports he was sick. Then for whatever reason the moves didnt work out, he has now decided to stay and 'help' the club. I for one cannot wait for the day he finally leaves. Has not been good enough for the past 3 seasons and I am happy we finally have a manager who has the balls to and clever mind to oust him in a clever way

I think that's on the button. There was no reason for him to not go to France with the squad, he had a minor muscle injury.
 
He'll be gone this summer. He's been nowhere near the team all month, nor the squad in general. His agent goes out to China - you don't send your agent there unless you are interested in moving there. Chinese clubs make a point of stating they're not game. He obviously priced himself out of a move, but both he and the club know his future lies elsewhere.
 
Agreed, hope to God he doesnt start today.

He'll get one more goal. And just to annoy you and I he will get three more "assists" (he's due a laughable shot from outside the box i reckon, that falls to Zlatan....you know the rest)
Rooney scoring or assisting United a goal annoys you?
 
He'll be gone this summer. He's been nowhere near the team all month, nor the squad in general. His agent goes out to China - you don't send your agent there unless you are interested in moving there. Chinese clubs make a point of stating they're not game. He obviously priced himself out of a move, but both he and the club know his future lies elsewhere.
Yeah that's the same conclusion I came to. I reckon he'll price himself out of a move in the summer too. It's kind of weird how all his people's behind the scenes dealing and shenanigans always seem so blatant and ham fisted. Yet seem to work.
 
Are there any Rooney defenders left on the Caf? Does anyone believe his statement of not kicking up a fuss and wanting to stay and help the team. Look at the facts. Hardly available in February due to illness/sickness. Suddenly last week the evening before a Europa game all the Journalists start asking Mourinho about Rooney. Is he leaving etc. Does anyone actually believe Rooney's camp had not leaked something out there that he was unhappy trying to engineer a move away.

For whatever reason that move broke down. Was it his wage demands? Did the chinese realize come to their senses and realize he is finished? Did Coleen put her foot down realizing that Wayne has enough problems with English language, never mind Chinese. Was it a contributing factor of all of the above.

This guy is a snake, a greedy tw@t and will never be a club legend in my eyes. Ibra coming in this season has provided Mourinho the perfect excuse to take him out of the team and even the precious English journalists and media cannot kick up a fuss about Wayne not playing. He is clearly finished at this level.I absolutely gurantee that Mourinho will not be impressed by his behaviour either.
 
Football is a highly lucrative business. Gone are the days when a player had to play for the top 5 clubs in the world to become rich. Therefore we can say that apart from people like Scholes and Ole who would sign any contract thrown to them by us, then most United players are there for 2 reasons ie money and success. Which is fair enough. Players like any individual can decide what type of career they want. Some are after money (ex Ibra or Vieri), others are after the dream of becoming club legends (ex Totti or Le Tissier) while others simply want to play football (ex Baggio). There career choices reflect their characters.

What infuriates me is when players join clubs like Manchester United to make money and win only to expect the club to nanny them when its evident that they aren't good enough anymore. The club's scope shouldn't change to accommodate has been. If Rooney wanted a club who'll nanny him till the end then he should have remained at Everton. He would still be a rich player (although he'll be far less rich then he is now) and because Everton has less expectations then we do, he would have been able to remain a valuable player for them for more years then with a top club like ours.

I can't help thinking that somewhere along the line we seem to have lost that ruthlessness or high standard we once had. The club is expected to treat players like some Chievo or Everton would while paying salaries like some Real or Bayern would. That's unacceptable. If we act like a 5th-7th place club and we've got players of the quality of a 5th-7th place club then we'll end up at 5th-7th place irrespective of the salaries we pay
 
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Are there any Rooney defenders left on the Caf? Does anyone believe his statement of not kicking up a fuss and wanting to stay and help the team. Look at the facts. Hardly available in February due to illness/sickness. Suddenly last week the evening before a Europa game all the Journalists start asking Mourinho about Rooney. Is he leaving etc. Does anyone actually believe Rooney's camp had not leaked something out there that he was unhappy trying to engineer a move away.

For whatever reason that move broke down. Was it his wage demands? Did the chinese realize come to their senses and realize he is finished? Did Coleen put her foot down realizing that Wayne has enough problems with English language, never mind Chinese. Was it a contributing factor of all of the above.

This guy is a snake, a greedy tw@t and will never be a club legend in my eyes. Ibra coming in this season has provided Mourinho the perfect excuse to take him out of the team and even the precious English journalists and media cannot kick up a fuss about Wayne not playing. He is clearly finished at this level.I absolutely gurantee that Mourinho will not be impressed by his behaviour either.

Yep, even the chinese dont want him.

How the mighty have fallen.
 
It annoys me when people try to make out a shinned pass etc was a moment of class, or a shot that was miles off target or or or...
Don't care if it comes off his arse as long as we get the goal. No idea why you'd be annoyed with us getting a goal. It's not even like a goal or assist is rewarded by a start in the next game these days. This sort of hatred is just bizarre.
 
Don't care if it comes off his arse as long as we get the goal. No idea why you'd be annoyed with us getting a goal. It's not even like a goal or assist is rewarded by a start in the next game these days. This sort of hatred is just bizarre.


Because, no disrespect, but folks like yourself then trot out "he's very productive this season" crap, when even Stevie Wonder would acknowledge the sheer fortune of most of the assists.
 
Because, no disrespect, but folks like yourself then trot out "he's very productive this season" crap, when even Stevie Wonder would acknowledge the sheer fortune of most of the assists.
How is it making a difference to you? He's helping us get goals (however lucky) and he's not starting games which is all you want.
 
I'd bet my house that if Rooney doesn't play any part in Sunday's final and isn't eligible for a trophy, he'd feel more resentment towards the club than joy. Maybe I'm wrong about that but that's the impression he's given over the years.

I hope you didn't place that bet. If he did feel resentment the guy deserves an Oscar because he looked genuinely happy.
 
I hope you didn't place that bet. If he did feel resentment the guy deserves an Oscar because he looked genuinely happy.

He was on the bench and he gets a medal...
 
A lot of people on here have been proven very wrong with regards to how Rooney was going to react to being dropped. I'm yet to see all the stories he was going to use his media contacts to spread and the resentment he was going to show today. He looked absolutely furious with that Zlatan goal!
 
He was on the bench and he gets a medal...

Ah come on. You've called this one wrong. You said he'd be resentful if he didn't feature. The guy didn't get a kick and looked happy for the team. Using the medal technicality is a bit pissy. Give him some credit.
 
Rooney is not as good as you seem to believe.
Got more assists than anybody else (in our team) this year... So perhaps not as bad as some believe either

As with most things it will be a subjective shade of grey rather than the black and white arguments we see here.

Wouldn't be shocked to see him stay if he thinks he can play a role (and earn very good money)

Wouldn't be shocked to see him go somewhere else in the premier league if he values playing for england over cash (I wouldn't)

Or he may take the opportunity to earn a few hundred million in China (I would)

Up to him really but wish him the best whatever he decides
 
Got more assists than anybody else (in our team) this year... So perhaps not as bad as some believe either

As with most things it will be a subjective shade of grey rather than the black and white arguments we see here.

Wouldn't be shocked to see him stay if he thinks he can play a role (and earn very good money)

Wouldn't be shocked to see him go somewhere else in the premier league if he values playing for england over cash (I wouldn't)

Or he may take the opportunity to earn a few hundred million in China (I would)

Up to him really but wish him the best whatever he decides

Not a chance in hell he will be here next September. I will personally have a wager with you on it.
 
Ah come on. You've called this one wrong. You said he'd be resentful if he didn't feature. The guy didn't get a kick and looked happy for the team. Using the medal technicality is a bit pissy. Give him some credit.

It was pretty clear what I meant, I said if he plays no part and isn't eligible for a medal. He was in the squad and got to lift the trophy so of course he's delighted. We'll leave it here though, I've got no interest having this conversation when we've just won a trophy.
 
A lot of people on here have been proven very wrong with regards to how Rooney was going to react to being dropped. I'm yet to see all the stories he was going to use his media contacts to spread and the resentment he was going to show today. He looked absolutely furious with that Zlatan goal!

Proven wrong in which way. The guy has just spent the whole of February trying to secure a move away from the club. How is that being supportive of his role as a squad member
 
It was pretty clear what I meant, I said if he plays no part and isn't eligible for a medal. He was in the squad and got to lift the trophy so of course he's delighted. We'll leave it here though, I've got no interest having this conversation when we've just won a trophy.

As if just being on the bench (without getting a kick) would be the difference between resent and happiness at the result.

Nothing wrong with saying you were wrong. Sign of a good poster.
 
I never was a fan of him and want him out as much as anyone, but some of this shit is getting ridiculous. He was genuinely happy that we won a trophy and would have been the same if he didn't even make the bench.
 
I never was a fan of him and want him out as much as anyone, but some of this shit is getting ridiculous. He was genuinely happy that we won a trophy and would have been the same if he didn't even make the bench.

Yeah Moyes must have stuck a trophy bonus ontop of that 300k per week he is on
 
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