Wayne Rooney | Having medical

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I understand that, i was just making a point of how flirting with leaving can taint your legacy with supporters. You have to be someone like Stevie G for that to not matter.

I don't think fans are bothered so much by genuine, understandable temptation.

I'd imagine most Liverpool fans can at least understand why Gerrard considered leaving. There was a compelling football argument for him doing so.

Personally that's why I hold no grudge with Ronaldo. I understand why he left.

However that is not what Rooney did. The problem is that no matter how many times this is explained, the difference highlighted, Rooney fans won't accept it. It's fingers in ears time when any attempt is made.
 
I don't think fans are bothered so much by genuine, understandable temptation.

I'd imagine most Liverpool fans can at least understand why Gerrard considered leaving. There was a compelling football argument for him doing so.

Personally that's why I hold no grudge with Ronaldo. I understand why he left.

However that is not what Rooney did. The problem is that no matter how many times this is explained, the difference highlighted, Rooney fans won't accept it. It's fingers in ears time when any attempt is made.
Even if you understand why he left, his behavior was shameful. It's all well and good leaving the club and then signing it's praises. He did a lot of nonsense in the media that summer and he's still loved on here.
 
Even if you understand why he left, his behavior was shameful. It's all well and good leaving the club and then signing it's praises. He did a lot of nonsense in the media that summer and he's still loved on here.

Yeah in agreeing with Blatter he was wrong.

That doesn't change what Rooney did though. Nor does it change the warranted negative feelings fans have about his behaviour.
 
Rooney has contributed a lot to the club, that's undeniable. And I don't really care about his previous contract antics. What I don't like about him is his lack of loyalty to Van Gaal and Hodgson after they (foolishly) gave him him everything he wanted. Captaincy, guaranteed starting spot in whatever position he wanted and always given full public praise and backing. But as soon as they're gone he stabs them in the back to help support his weakening reputation. I just can't stand such obvious and blatant insincerity.

No wonder Mourihno is working him out of the club. He has similar history with almost (if not) all managers he's worked under.
 
Why would he leave? Who else will give such a fat check to the fat feck?

Someone in China would probably pay him big money, tevez and Oscar are on crazy wages there and United is the most popular football team in China.

Calling him 'fat feck' is a bit out of order at this stage, he doesn't start and he is only here for a few more months. I'm happy to see him go.
 
Someone in China would probably pay him big money, tevez and Oscar are on crazy wages there and United is the most popular football team in China.

Calling him 'fat feck' is a bit out of order at this stage, he doesn't start and he is only here for a few more months. I'm happy to see him go.

I was merely responding to Phil Jones 79, who called him "fat feck". I agree it's a bit out of order, because Jose has certainly made him drop a few kilos, so the "fat" part maybe won't apply anymore. So maybe "clumsy feck" would be more fitting.

I'm not as bothered by him being in the team as long as Mou continues to bench him. As a team, if he were a regular starter, we would not be showing the kind of form we are starting to develop, it would be impossible. But thankfully he is not hurting our team as he did over the last 3 seasons. All he does now is inflate our wage bill, which is not really something I care as much about.
 
Even if you understand why he left, his behavior was shameful. It's all well and good leaving the club and then signing it's praises. He did a lot of nonsense in the media that summer and he's still loved on here.

Double standards bull shit. Pointless trying to explain to them. 'Fingers in ears time' and all that rubbish. :wenger:
 
Rooney “holding the club ransom”, him flirting with City, him being unprofessional at times, him shagging grannies - none of that is unheard of for a United player. And none of it would be a sufficient reason to hate him if you didn’t have a problem with him to begin with - the number of United fans whose standards in relevant areas are actually so high that they aren’t guilty of hypocrisy in this regard is extremely slender.

Never understood the need to come up with ridiculous rationalizations for not liking a player. Just say that you don’t like the fecker, it’s perfectly alright. Football fans aren’t supposed to be 100% rational.
 
Meh. I have no issues with most of what Rooney did, contract wise. A LOT of players do that behind the scenes. The only difference with Rooney is that the whole affair became public knowledge which is the only thing that bothered me.

He applied a little game theory principles and got what he wanted. Doesn't bother me. Ultimately the club gave him what he wanted and if they were so convinced that he wasn't worth it, they wouldn't have.
 
His contract is a joke but it's stupid to blame him for it. Blame the people that gave him it. None of us would have turned it down.
 
What I don't like about him is his lack of loyalty to Van Gaal and Hodgson after they (foolishly) gave him him everything he wanted. Captaincy, guaranteed starting spot in whatever position he wanted and always given full public praise and backing. But as soon as they're gone he stabs them in the back to help support his weakening reputation. I just can't stand such obvious and blatant insincerity.
Can you elaborate on this? I don't think I've ever heard anything from this angle before. "Stabbing ex managers in the back to support his weakening reputation"....? That is a pretty fanciful claim and there have been a few ring dingers in here already. There are also various reasons why he was captain and why both manager continued to start him. Pretty clear and concrete.

'Blatant insincerity' that is a stretch to be honest. But, interesting angle - do you want to elaborate a bit how you came up with this theory?
 
I don't think fans are bothered so much by genuine, understandable temptation.

I'd imagine most Liverpool fans can at least understand why Gerrard considered leaving. There was a compelling football argument for him doing so.

Personally that's why I hold no grudge with Ronaldo. I understand why he left.

However that is not what Rooney did. The problem is that no matter how many times this is explained, the difference highlighted, Rooney fans won't accept it. It's fingers in ears time when any attempt is made.
I don't think Ronaldo left the club that well personally speaking and for a lot of United fans too what he's doing at Real doesn't make him more of a legend for United, if a legend at all. The whole summer of 2008 was disgraceful and it was partly because of him and his shenanigans that we weren't even allowed to properly savor our CL win. It matters how the fans view players is what i think, we sort of knew even in 2006 that Ronaldo wouldn't spend the best years of his career with us while that wasn't the case for Rooney so it hurt a lot of people what he pulled not once but twice when he was still playing for us. heinze was another one who became a hated figure among the fans after being a POTS during 2005 because he was adamant that he wanted to go to Pool.
 
Meh. I have no issues with most of what Rooney did, contract wise. A LOT of players do that behind the scenes. The only difference with Rooney is that the whole affair became public knowledge which is the only thing that bothered me.

He applied a little game theory principles and got what he wanted. Doesn't bother me. Ultimately the club gave him what he wanted and if they were so convinced that he wasn't worth it, they wouldn't have.
Rooney made nothing public in both the events. It was Fergie.
 
I don't think Ronaldo left the club that well personally speaking and for a lot of United fans too what he's doing at Real doesn't make him more of a legend for United, if a legend at all. The whole summer of 2008 was disgraceful and it was partly because of him and his shenanigans that we weren't even allowed to properly savor our CL win. It matters how the fans view players is what i think, we sort of knew even in 2006 that Ronaldo wouldn't spend the best years of his career with us while that wasn't the case for Rooney so it hurt a lot of people what he pulled not once but twice when he was still playing for us. heinze was another one who became a hated figure among the fans after being a POTS during 2005 because he was adamant that he wanted to go to Pool.


Great post.
 
I have no issues with what Rooney did to the club in the past. Not fussed at all

I do care however that he is fking shit for a $300k a week player.
 
Rooney “holding the club ransom”, him flirting with City, him being unprofessional at times, him shagging grannies - none of that is unheard of for a United player. And none of it would be a sufficient reason to hate him if you didn’t have a problem with him to begin with - the number of United fans whose standards in relevant areas are actually so high that they aren’t guilty of hypocrisy in this regard is extremely slender.

Never understood the need to come up with ridiculous rationalizations for not liking a player. Just say that you don’t like the fecker, it’s perfectly alright. Football fans aren’t supposed to be 100% rational.
Exactly, i don't like him, never have. He's exactly the sort of bloke I wouldn't have the time of day for if I knew him personally.
 
Exactly, i don't like him, never have. He's exactly the sort of bloke I wouldn't have the time of day for if I knew him personally.

Hehe, I know.

I'd probably detest him myself if I knew him personally. But then again, that goes for many footballers - Ronaldo, for instance. I'd probably prefer to spend a few hours with Rooney - at least he'd join you for a drink (and a fag).
 
Rooney “holding the club ransom”, him flirting with City, him being unprofessional at times, him shagging grannies - none of that is unheard of for a United player. And none of it would be a sufficient reason to hate him if you didn’t have a problem with him to begin with - the number of United fans whose standards in relevant areas are actually so high that they aren’t guilty of hypocrisy in this regard is extremely slender.

Never understood the need to come up with ridiculous rationalizations for not liking a player. Just say that you don’t like the fecker, it’s perfectly alright. Football fans aren’t supposed to be 100% rational.

Simply not the case. You're pretty much saying that to dislike Rooney is to be irrational.

Nobody is hammering him for every little thing. Young people make mistakes so the granny shagging, criticising fans on camera, temper issues on the pitch etc is understandable. According to Fergie there's plenty of other stuff the club prevented form entering the public sphere. Like I said young people do stupid stuff.

However there is a line and for many he crossed that with his "transfer" antics. That's an entirely reasonable position to take even if you don't agree.

Give people a little more credit. I had no problem with Rooney from the get go. He was brilliant. I've just altered my opinion in line with his behavior over the last few years.
 
Simply not the case. You're pretty much saying that to dislike Rooney is to be irrational.

Nobody is hammering him for every little thing. Young people make mistakes so the granny shagging, criticising fans on camera, temper issues on the pitch etc is understandable. According to Fergie there's plenty of other stuff the club prevented form entering the public sphere. Like I said young people do stupid stuff.

However there is a line and for many he crossed that with his "transfer" antics. That's an entirely reasonable position to take even if you don't agree.

Give people a little more credit. I had no problem with Rooney from the get go. He was brilliant. I've just altered my opinion in line with his behavior over the last few years.

If your general stance is that these "antics" amount to crossing the line, and you apply that to all players - then I have no problem with that.

As for whether I personally agree or not - well, no. I suppose I don't. But then again I realized long ago that hardly any footballers care about the club the way I do - so I tend to just regard them as players, not fellow fans or people whose general behaviour is of any great interest to me. My stance on Rooney's "antics" has always been that it was up to Fergie whether he deemed Rooney a necessary piece of the puzzle - or not.

And, no - I don't give football fans much credit when it comes to this particular subject. Most fans I know have a thing for some players - and the opposite for others. And they tend to rationalize their likes and dislikes. That's just my observation and it obviously doesn't mean that you, or any other individual, are guilty of the same.
 
If your general stance is that these "antics" amount to crossing the line, and you apply that to all players - then I have no problem with that.

As for whether I personally agree or not - well, no. I suppose I don't. But then again I realized long ago that hardly any footballers care about the club the way I do - so I tend to just regard them as players, not fellow fans or people whose general behaviour is of any great interest to me. My stance on Rooney's "antics" has always been that it was up to Fergie whether he deemed Rooney a necessary piece of the puzzle - or not.

And, no - I don't give football fans much credit when it comes to this particular subject. Most fans I know have a thing for some players - and the opposite for others. And they tend to rationalize their likes and dislikes. That's just my observation and it obviously doesn't mean that you, or any other individual, are guilty of the same.

Of course it should be but not all situations are the same. What Rooney did was different to what Rio did. Different to what Keane did. Without getting into the details of why they're different (that's been done) you can't just lump all that into one category and treat them the same.

You're also using the 'hate' term. I'd never want to ban a word but that comes close. It's far too strong. For the majority it's just a numbness. There's no real feeling for him.

I don't expect him or any other player to love the club like a fan but there's a huge middle ground between that kind of devotion and what he's done over the last few years.

Going back to your original post you said the only reason to dislike Rooney is if you had a problem right from the beginning. To dislike him for anything he's done whilst at United is irrational. That's as nonsensical as those who do genuinely feel hate.
 
Hehe, I know.

I'd probably detest him myself if I knew him personally. But then again, that goes for many footballers - Ronaldo, for instance. I'd probably prefer to spend a few hours with Rooney - at least he'd join you for a drink (and a fag).
True :lol: Ronnie would spend the whole time asking if his hair looked OK
 
Going back to your original post you said the only reason to dislike Rooney is if you had a problem right from the beginning. To dislike him for anything he's done whilst at United is irrational. That's as nonsensical as those who do genuinely feel hate.

I did? Well, if so I take that back. What I meant to say was that it is my impression that much of the Rooney anti-sentiment on here is based on that.

Keane wanted an improved contract too - and pulled some “antics” in connection with that. But that’s alright - because he actually deserved the money. Rio pulled some “antics” - but that’s alright because...I forget what makes it alright, but it was something. But not Rooney - no, in his case it was unforgivable because <insert some particular reason or other which doesn’t seem all that convincing to a more or less neutral party>. It’s not that I hate men with wooden legs, I only hate men with spruce legs who also wear denim shirts.

There are always reasons for disliking someone - it’s easy to come up with those: He cheated on his wife once. He owes me money. He voted Tory. All of which applies to his neighbour as well, but I don’t care in his case, ‘cause I like him well enough on the whole. That’s my impression of much of the Rooney dislike on here. Again, it doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions, but those exceptions - for me - would have to be people who actually condemn other players in the same fashion for comparable sins. And to say "well, that was different" rings pretty hollow to me unless you can make a detailed case for why Rooney's particular way of acting like a typical footballer was fundamentally different from numerous other cases which seem fairly similar to me.

What exactly did he do? Basically, he wanted an improved contract. Players tend to want that. He was the biggest player at the club and used that position for what it was worth. The act of a nice bloke I’d like to buy a pint? No. An act of unprecedented cuntishness? Hardly.

Lastly, of course it isn't "hatred" in any meaningful sense, but most people use that word rather freely.
 
I did? Well, if so I take that back. What I meant to say was that it is my impression that much of the Rooney anti-sentiment on here is based on that.

Keane wanted an improved contract too - and pulled some “antics” in connection with that. But that’s alright - because he actually deserved the money. Rio pulled some “antics” - but that’s alright because...I forget what makes it alright, but it was something. But not Rooney - no, in his case it was unforgivable because <insert some particular reason or other which doesn’t seem all that convincing to a more or less neutral party>. It’s not that I hate men with wooden legs, I only hate men with spruce legs who also wear denim shirts.

There are always reasons for disliking someone - it’s easy to come up with those: He cheated on his wife once. He owes me money. He voted Tory. All of which applies to his neighbour as well, but I don’t care in his case, ‘cause I like him well enough on the whole. That’s my impression of much of the Rooney dislike on here. Again, it doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions, but those exceptions - for me - would have to be people who actually condemn other players in the same fashion for comparable sins. And to say "well, that was different" rings pretty hollow to me unless you can make a detailed case for why Rooney's particular way of acting like a typical footballer was fundamentally different from numerous other cases which seem fairly similar to me.

What exactly did he do? Basically, he wanted an improved contract. Players tend to want that. He was the biggest player at the club and used that position for what it was worth. The act of a nice bloke I’d like to buy a pint? No. An act of unprecedented cuntishness? Hardly.

Lastly, of course it isn't "hatred" in any meaningful sense, but most people use that word rather freely.

Well behaviour is different. If it rings hollow it doesn't mean it's not true. Keane openly asking for a pay rise IS different to Rooney critiscing the ambition of club/manager in order to get one. To deny there's a difference indicates a bias on your part.

Like I said, I doubt fans had a problem with Rooney right from the start. I don't remember anything of the sort for the first few years, it was pure adulation. Fans have just changed their opinion based on his actions.
 
To me he lost the right to be treated like a Manchester United great in 2010 when he changed the dynamics of his relationship with the club to the one akin to a hooker and her client. The way he has behaved then and in 2013 simply means he shouldn't expect the club to stand by him during low periods like these or to be given 'a chance' to transition to a new position or see out his days as a highly paid squad player like we did with Giggs and Scholes. If he can't perform to his level we have every right to dump him to China whilst wheeling him through the back door without pomp and fanfare. Its vindictive I know but he made it clear a long time ago that he is only here for the money.
 
To deny there's a difference indicates a bias on your part.

Possibly. But I like Keane much better than Rooney, both as a man and a footballer, so it would be an odd sort of bias. I like Rio better too, for that matter. To me all three instances are, well, a bit irrelevant, really: Players angling for more money one way or another - threatening to leave one way or another. Footballers tend to do this, it's a fairly common occurence.

I don't consider it important. They didn't leave - and that's that. I find it almost bizarre to actively dislike a player because of some contract shenanigans that happened years ago. There's likely many more incidents of a comparable nature we don't know about - and I don't care about those either. My opinion of Player X wouldn't change in the slightest if it turned out that he too "held the club ransom" at some point or other.

But, like I said above, I very much prefer to look at these players as just that, players - which means that I don't really give a feck about what they do behind the scenes as long as the latter isn't positively harmful to the club. And if it is, I expect the manager to deal with it. Fergie sanctioned Rooney's new contract, Rooney apologized to his team mates - and, what? End of story for me.
 
Possibly. But I like Keane much better than Rooney, both as a man and a footballer, so it would be an odd sort of bias. I like Rio better too, for that matter. To me all three instances are, well, a bit irrelevant, really: Players angling for more money one way or another - threatening to leave one way or another. Footballers tend to do this, it's a fairly common occurence.

I don't consider it important. They didn't leave - and that's that. I find it almost bizarre to actively dislike a player because of some contract shenanigans that happened years ago. There's likely many more incidents of a comparable nature we don't know about - and I don't care about those either. My opinion of Player X wouldn't change in the slightest if it turned out that he too "held the club ransom" at some point or other.

But, like I said above, I very much prefer to look at these players as just that, players - which means that I don't really give a feck about what they do behind the scenes as long as the latter isn't positively harmful to the club. And if it is, I expect the manager to deal with it. Fergie sanctioned Rooney's new contract, Rooney apologized to his team mates - and, what? End of story for me.

That's fine. If you can distance yourself from the behaviour of a player and his attitude towards the club ok.

But others can't and I think that's reasonable.
 
This thread probably needs closing, he's not leaving and rightly so. The discussion surrounding the speculative guessing that he is some sort giga-prick when away from the football field is pure tabloid scribbling fantasty. Not even worth going into.
 
I was merely responding to Phil Jones 79, who called him "fat feck". I agree it's a bit out of order, because Jose has certainly made him drop a few kilos, so the "fat" part maybe won't apply anymore. So maybe "clumsy feck" would be more fitting.

I'm not as bothered by him being in the team as long as Mou continues to bench him. As a team, if he were a regular starter, we would not be showing the kind of form we are starting to develop, it would be impossible. But thankfully he is not hurting our team as he did over the last 3 seasons. All he does now is inflate our wage bill, which is not really something I care as much about.
Calling him fat at any point is bit much to be fair, if he's fat then the rest of us are in trouble. He's in fantastic shape for a Mr Blobby impersonator.
 
This thread probably needs closing, he's not leaving and rightly so. The discussion surrounding the speculative guessing that he is some sort giga-prick when away from the football field is pure tabloid scribbling fantasty. Not even worth going into.

If it's upsetting you, you know what to do.

He's going to be leaving in the summer though and we get to talk about it in here.
 
I did? Well, if so I take that back. What I meant to say was that it is my impression that much of the Rooney anti-sentiment on here is based on that.

Keane wanted an improved contract too - and pulled some “antics” in connection with that. But that’s alright - because he actually deserved the money. Rio pulled some “antics” - but that’s alright because...I forget what makes it alright, but it was something. But not Rooney - no, in his case it was unforgivable because <insert some particular reason or other which doesn’t seem all that convincing to a more or less neutral party>. It’s not that I hate men with wooden legs, I only hate men with spruce legs who also wear denim shirts.

There are always reasons for disliking someone - it’s easy to come up with those: He cheated on his wife once. He owes me money. He voted Tory. All of which applies to his neighbour as well, but I don’t care in his case, ‘cause I like him well enough on the whole. That’s my impression of much of the Rooney dislike on here. Again, it doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions, but those exceptions - for me - would have to be people who actually condemn other players in the same fashion for comparable sins. And to say "well, that was different" rings pretty hollow to me unless you can make a detailed case for why Rooney's particular way of acting like a typical footballer was fundamentally different from numerous other cases which seem fairly similar to me.

What exactly did he do? Basically, he wanted an improved contract. Players tend to want that. He was the biggest player at the club and used that position for what it was worth. The act of a nice bloke I’d like to buy a pint? No. An act of unprecedented cuntishness? Hardly.

Lastly, of course it isn't "hatred" in any meaningful sense, but most people use that word rather freely.

Contract disputes between players and the club itself are common place. Nobody can argue with a player negotiating his contract.

But, there was a big difference between Rooney and the other players mentioned. Rooney questioned the manager and quality of his team mates.

It's not the first time he's done it either. His "be more selfish and demand to play in my best position" nonsense was also delivered strategically after Ronaldo left when he knew his stock at the club was at its highest.

What I loved at United through the Fergie era is that everyone at the club was on the same page. It was United against the world and there were never any public murmurs of discontent within the playing group.

Rooney is the exception to that. He made calculated comments that could have potentially impacted the success of the team for selfish reasons. He would never have been club captain under Fergie.
 
He made calculated comments that could have potentially impacted the success of the team for selfish reasons.

Yes, but "selfish reasons" surely motivated both Keane and Rio too. You can't say that either of them acted in the best interest of Manchester United (and it would be borderline delusional to expect them to).

Anyway, it was ages ago and it didn't actually damage the team - so at what point does one simply forget about it? I guess that's the question.

It's not a question of claiming that Rooney was right - I've never said he was. It's simply a question of how much importance one attaches to something like that. Like I said above, to me it's Fergie's call: Does he consider Rooney's "antics" a reason for getting rid? No? Fine, then - he presumably knows what he's doing. That's my - simple - take on it. I can't be bothered to get outraged at players (and their agents) looking out for themselves - it's to be expected, and it's a part of football I prefer to keep very much separate from what happens on the pitch.
 
Yes, but "selfish reasons" surely motivated both Keane and Rio too. You can't say that either of them acted in the best interest of Manchester United (and it would be borderline delusional to expect them to).

Anyway, it was ages ago and it didn't actually damage the team - so at what point does one simply forget about it? I guess that's the question.

It's not a question of claiming that Rooney was right - I've never said he was. It's simply a question of how much importance one attaches to something like that. Like I said above, to me it's Fergie's call: Does he consider Rooney's "antics" a reason for getting rid? No? Fine, then - he presumably knows what he's doing. That's my - simple - take on it. I can't be bothered to get outraged at players (and their agents) looking out for themselves - it's to be expected, and it's a part of football I prefer to keep very much separate from what happens on the pitch.

The motivation may have been the same but the actions were different.

As I said above: Rooney questioned the manager and quality of his team mates.

I cannot think of another United player who has done that in the Fergie era and stayed at the club and rightly so.
 
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