The only meaningful differences from your description here is your belief that Keane wasn't considering a move to another English club at a time when United was utterly dominant in English football and the "lack of ambition" line. Seems like flimsy enough evidence to perceive the two scenarios as radically different.
Wayne Rooney | Having medical
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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The only meaningful differences from your description here is your belief that Keane wasn't considering a move to another English club at a time when United was utterly dominant in English football and the "lack of ambition" line. Seems like flimsy enough evidence to perceive the two scenarios as radically different.
If we have the squad for that - I really dont see the fuss if he stays until the summer. It's not that he starts games anways and as I said, we're a bit short upfront in numbers
Have you seen our fixture list? I dont think letting him go right now makes such a big difference, let's do that in summer while we get new strikers
Looking back at the situation, I can completely understand his stance. It's a short career and he wanted to maximise his earnings and win as many trophies as he could so it was understandable back then that he would want to move to City who were paying the most money and signing the best players. He's an Everton boy and has no natural loyalty to United.
He signed for us in 2004 because we were paying the most money and offering him the best chance of winning trophies.
Roll forward to now and the roles are reversed. It's no surprise that a large section of fans don't feel any natural loyalty to him. Twice he'd courted other clubs in the hope for more money and more trophies. Now his powers have depleted, we would rather see the back of him as it'll save the club a lot of money and we think we have more chance of trophies with him out the door.
He's made it clear his whole career that the only thing that matters to Wayne Rooney is Wayne Rooney. He'll be back as an ambassador picking up a wage from us in his retirement but he'll be in the stands with his kids watching Everton play as a fan. That's why, as a player, he doesn't get the same respect from us players like Giggs, Scholes, Neville, O'Shea, Fletcher and Brown get.
Look at Ashley Young and how he's taken to the club like a fan. He goes to away matches and watches with the home crowd when he's not in the squad. Captain Rooney couldn't even be arsed to go to a Europa Cup match despite being fit enough for training. He's the club captain for Christ sake.
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I have to say you're a little naive if you think any footballer in our current squad is playing for Manchester United other than because we pay the most money and give the best chance of winning trophies. Rashford being the only possible exception.
For the more recent additions you'd also have to say that the former is likely to be a more powerful motivator than the latter, seeing as success is much less guaranteed now than it was in the Fergie era.
This.
*Mind you, many people (not me) have no problem with the worlds biggest narcissist footballer? (i dont even have to name him)
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I agree it's a little naive but see what I've said added about Young.
Ferdinand is another one, he was as guilty as Rooney for the same reasons with his Chelsea flirting but once he'd really settled here he took the club to heart and is a huge fan of ours now. Same goes for a lot of our legends that came here for money and trophies.
There's never been any sort of affection like that from Rooney, is always been a business agreement and nothing more.
Ashley Young is an unfair standard to hold Rooney to. You already mentioned Scholes as a standard that Rooney should aspire to, well he was never seen in the away end and openly supported another club throughout his United career.
It just seems to me as though people are looking for reasons to dislike Rooney since his performances dropped off and he's become a scapegoat for the shit we've endured over the last three years.
He is not moving now anyway. He already issued a press release saying that he is staying.
However, I don't see how he is going to help us. We are better without him in the team than with him. And If we have to rotate, we can play Rashford or Martial in the striker position.
That's just simplifying fans emotions towards him. You can write off all the little reasons fans have for not holding him in the regard his career has perhaps earned but it's a combination of all these little things that have stopped any endearment forming over the years.
He's lived in his own little world demanding his own way for years and he always got it. Now the talent has dried up, he's got zero loyalty points to cash in. There's no unfair secret reason for disliking him, it's all down to him and how he's acted over the years. That's why Ronaldo, despite actually leaving and despite being a bit of a cock personality wise is still loved by many United fans, because it's always been clear that there's a lot of genuine love for United there.
I'd bet my house that if Rooney doesn't play any part in Sunday's final and isn't eligible for a trophy, he'd feel more resentment towards the club than joy. Maybe I'm wrong about that but that's the impression he's given over the years.
Because it was a short term lull that any player with some loyalty should have seen through. Given SAF'S record and the incredible success we'd just had under the Glazers maybe some trust from him was in order.
Fast forward a few years and it now looks even more ridiculous. Whatever the troubles we've had over the last three years nobody could cite a lack of ambition.
Except he hasn't. But lets not get facts in the way of of more bs.
Here's a player who's given his absolute best over the years for the club and done everything possible for us to be successful. You're entitled to your views however it's based on some pure imagined gibberish.
I'm not a particulary big fan of Rooney(years of poor form have defeated me) but that's just speculative nonsense.
There's nothing to suggest that as far as I can see.
As much as I want him gone I cant blame him if he wants every penny that his contract entitles him to. It pisses me off when players act out for a move despite signing a contract for a set period of time, it is hypocritical to not apply the same rules to the club, they key is as long as hes not playing and keeps his gob shut there is no problem.
I remember a load of people on here (not accusing you btw) saying that as soon as Rooney lost his place in the starting line-up he'd throw his toys out of the pram and use his pals in the press to kick up a massive shit-storm. Turns out his behaviour has been exemplary, doing and saying all the right things having to cope with what must be a crushing disappointment. You'd think that might at least earn him some credit. It's certainly not the behaviour you'd expect from someone that has been portrayed as only interested in himself and couldn't care less about what's best for the club/team.
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I have to admit I did wonder how he would take it, but as you say he has been very magnanimous about the whole situation, and he certainly does deserve credit for that. No one likes the realisation they cant do something they used to, it must be even harder when that thing is so central to your entire existence.
I do think the addition of a new big dog to the dressing room in the form of Zlatan has helped, as has having a strong manager again, but Wayne certainly deserves credit as well.
Agree with @Pexbo on his recent posts
Didn't O' Shea say Rooney admitted that He basically used all that simply to get a better contract? It wasnt because he cared so much about our direction at the time.
Yeah i think that was part of the apology
Tbh I wasn't thinking this was going to happen. I'm surprised.
He deserves to be here as long as he wants imo.
This attitude has warmed me back up to him.
Roy keane was looking for a rise and used the normal route of saying he wanted more money, he got it.
Rooneys position isn't bizarre, we did lack ambition in the market, but if all he was looking for was more money, which obviously seems to be the case then using that as an argument makes little sense as its an argument to leave not to get more money. We ended up caving and paying him more, but his initial gripe wasn't about wage, so its bizarre he would angle for an increase that way.
If we were struggling, we'd be reading the same ol' rumours of player-discontent. And, having recast himself as a midfielder, even he can't argue that he should start over Pogba, Carrick & co. Added to this, a strong manager can't be undermined so easily, especially on the back of a winning run. Still, Wayne has every right to look after number one, no matter if it annoys some people; it's his career after all.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/mourinhos-hands-off-role-stuns-players-w6nkgvflr
Of course we can't be sure it was him but it's his mate Paul Hirst.
Ah yes. The good old tactics of assuming every negative story in the press on United must be from Rooney without a single shred of evidence.
Here's a stat I think is nearly certain to be true but I've no way of verifying..
Rooney has scored more free kick goals than Ronaldo since 2012.
Rooney has scored more free kick goals than Ronaldo since 2012.
This, people forget that in 2010 he was actually bluffing to get a better deal from us and even admitted it afterwards if i remember correctly. The whole affair reeked of his agent having talked him into doing so. Rooney has never been the same since then and that is also true for his relationship with the fans for whom he was no longer a cult hero. This is also probably why Rio is not an undisputed United legend as he ought to be considered.
In fairness to Ronaldo, though, he's only had 48,000 attempts since then, so....
Someone please tell me this is actually true.
I'm not really getting why that has any significance as a stat.
Bit of a digression, and I agree totally about Young, but just thought I'd put a few more names out there...
What about DDG? He's stuck with us through one of our roughest patches of the last 30 years while he was (and is) truly World Class.
Also, I reckon Herrera should get a shout out as a player who's really fallen in Love with the club as a human being.
Likewise Mata, that fecker really had the rug pulled from his feet when he turned up here, he easily could've thrown the towel in and pushed for a move to PSG/Italy wherever and won more trophies.
It's ironic that the 3 candidates I could put forward are all foreign!
No? I don't think he should start he is ahead of lingard and behind all others for attacking options
The point he is making is if people are telling him to adapt he needs to be given the chance, no matter how bold you make your text that is just common sense.
Whether I think he should be given the chance is another matter, but in terms of what he said it was nothing but common sense
Aye.
It's hard to paint a picture to the media that things are shit and the new manager is struggling when you lose one game in 25.
You don't have to. The papers were full of stories about the woes of Toure and Aguero when City were top of the table.
Why is Rio not an undisputed legend?
Contract dispute around 2004-05. Also a lot of people were irked by his negligence in forgetting to take that drug test in 2003 which cost us that season.
In truth we heard several sound bites that were almost certainly from the Rooney camp when his minutes first started to be limited and we weren't performing. I think Mourinho has superbly nipped it in the bud, firstly by being ruthless and secondly with our performances getting consistently better the longer he's been out of the team.
It's difficult to leak to the press that training methods aren't working, that players are fed up with the manager, that team selection is wrong or that the manager is making any other mistakes when we're getting better and better. I also think signing arrogant personalities that are loyal to Mourinho has helped. Having names like Zlatan and Pogba in the team every week mean that the rest of the team isn't mirroring Rooney's beliefs.
Rooney deserves some credit but I'm sure his team are very aware that causing a fuss in the current climate would not only hurt his chances of first team football, but also his reputation in the game. Kicking up a fuss when he's playing well resulted in big pay rises and long contracts. Kicking up a fuss now would lead to training in his own, being publicly condemned by one of the most respected managers in the game and generally having his reputation tarnished.
It's difficult to leak to the press that training methods aren't working, that players are fed up with the manager, that team selection is wrong or that the manager is making any other mistakes when we're getting better and better. I also think signing arrogant personalities that are loyal to Mourinho has helped. Having names like Zlatan and Pogba in the team every week mean that the rest of the team isn't mirroring Rooney's beliefs.
Rooney deserves some credit but I'm sure his team are very aware that causing a fuss in the current climate would not only hurt his chances of first team football, but also his reputation in the game. Kicking up a fuss when he's playing well resulted in big pay rises and long contracts. Kicking up a fuss now would lead to training in his own, being publicly condemned by one of the most respected managers in the game and generally having his reputation tarnished.
Ohh yes! I remember. But I think it's still nothing compared to what Rooney did, twice
I understand that, i was just making a point of how flirting with leaving can taint your legacy with supporters. You have to be someone like Stevie G for that to not matter.Ohh yes! I remember. But I think it's still nothing compared to what Rooney did, twice
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