[Walters_19_MuFc]

It's a forum where posters provide their opinions on a range of matters? Have I misunderstood what we all do here?

He needs someone in a more advanced position to bring the ball forward? Behave.

He constantly slows down attacks and is liability playing in the position he currently is, when we have better players suited for the #10 role. We do need a specialist for this position going forward however, if we are to continue to play 4-2-3-1.

He's finished playing at the top level of football, and has been for a few years now. Mourinho will see this.

Why go off topic and talk about Rooney in general?

Lets go back to what we were talking about.

1) Did he have players ahead of him?
2) Did he have four players behind him?
3) Was he going down a dead end?

No disputing that Rooney has lost a yard of pace, but if we're going off what we can imagine, I imagine that had Rooney ran down the line, he would have been dispossessesd. Instead, he tried to cut back and keep possession but was tackled.

He doesnt need people in an advanced position, no. But football isnt just a kick and run game. You have to think about what situation you will be lead into once you do it.

 

[krombacher92]

There will be a civil war on the caf soon. "Agenda posters" vs "Rooney apologists"

 

[Raees]

Yeah Mourinho has a poor reading of the game, but you're tops.

He is one of the best at reading the game, which is why my money is on Rooney not being here by the start of next season. I note that you say Martial has been poor, when he was our driving force against Bournemouth. Without his dribbling and directness with the ball, we would have struggled to have put them on the back foot.

It would have all been backwards and sidewards passing without his courage on the ball.

 

[Dumbat12]

The Rooney fans remind me of Moyes's fans, like Pogue who were defending him till he was sacked and even continued afterwards. There's just no convincing them.

You should all just give up.

 

[Adisa]

Will score a golazo on Friday. Heard it here first.

 

[fellaini's barber]

The Rooney fans remind me of Moyes's fans, ike Pogue who were defending him till he was sacked and even continued afterwards. There's just no convincing them.

You should all just give up.

I try my best to heed this advice but, but then I come on here and read some posts that drive me fecking nuts. Especially nowadays where the fanboys can't even delude themselves he's good enough anymore, but have now shifted the argument to 'he wasn't that bad, and x player was worse etc'. Thanks to LVG's persistence with him last season, we at least don't have to deal with the 'he's played out of position, he should be a striker' chorus which would been in full flow now he's having his midfield stinkers

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The Rooney fans remind me of Moyes's fans, like Pogue who were defending him till he was sacked and even continued afterwards. There's just no convincing them.

You should all just give up.

Yeah that didn't happen.

The bickering on here is tiresome enough without people making shit up about you. Give it a rest, please.

 

[podurban2]

#JusticeForPogue

 

[ThanksBoss26]

According to The Sun, the club have told him to forget about a new contract.

Quite right too. He's got three years left of his current deal. There's no way we'd even consider another deal at this stage, so not quite sure why he and/or his camp made noises to that affect.

 

[Ish]

Counter attack means you need to have bodies in front of you to counter teams. When Rooney loooked up, on that occasion, all he had ahead of him was Bournemouth players.

To me, apart from Martial, a three of Mata, Ibra and Rooney are too slow to counter. To add to that, we are way too narrow.

That's not entirely true though, is it? If the ball breaks to the guy furthest forward, who's starting the counter, it's logical that he won't have any bodies in front of him. It doesn't mean it's not a counter attack.

But yeah, on the video itself, I wouldn't read too much into it. I'm sure you could find every single player, even Messi, losing the ball every now and again off a counter attack. Frequency of losing the ball is a different matter though.

 

[Dumbat12]

Yeah that didn't happen.

The bickering on here is tiresome enough without people making shit up about you. Give it a rest, please.

Oh yes, it absolutely did happen. Do I need to search up your post from 2014 (that would be pretty tiresome) where you defended Moyes until he was sacked and afterwards too? You even blamed SAF for not leaving him a world class squad (even though he left him a squad that won the title with 11 points, if I remember correctly) and you refused to put any blame on Moyes.

I remember when you blamed the club for sacking him (maybe not that they sacked him, but in the way they sacked him. Can't be sure about that, but I do remember you were very upset about it.)

I remember our discussions well, you were one of the most avid supporters of Moyes. Even now when I checked your post you have a few in the Van Gaal vs Moyes thread where you continue to excuse everything that Moyes did.

And I saw your posts in this thread and to my "surprise", you're defending Rooney's awful performances too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Oh yes, it absolutely did happen. Do I need to search up your post from 2014 (that would be pretty tiresome) where you defended Moyes until he was sacked and afterwards too? You even blamed SAF for not leaving him a world class squad (even though he left him a squad that won the title with 11 points, if I remember correctly) and you refused to put any blame on Moyes.

I remember when you blamed the club for sacking him (maybe not that they sacked him, but in the way they sacked him. Can't be sure about that, but I do remember you were very upset about it.)

I remember our discussions well, you were one of the most avid supporters of Moyes. Even now when I checked your post you have a few in the Van Gaal vs Moyes thread where you continue to excuse everything that Moyes did.

And I saw your posts in this thread and to my "surprise", you're defending Rooney's awful performances too.

You're full of shit.

I wanted rid of Moyes before he was finally sacked by the club. I also couldn't have cared less about the way he was fired. I never once complained about it. And yes, I do expect you to quote specific posts of mine when you make accusations like that. There's a search function. Use it.

You also seem to be confusing people pointing out mitigating factors in his failure with arguing the club was wrong to sack him. It's possible to hold one point of view without the other.

 

[Minimalist]

Just got around to watching the MNF discussion on him from Neville and Carragher. Absolute drivel from Neville.

Rooney has no chance of becoming a Giggs/Scholes type who re-invents themselves. I won't even re-hash the laughable Scholes comparison that some tried to make before the EURO's - it's horseshit and frankly offensive to Scholes.

"He needs a club manager who just sticks with him for 3 years in the same position..."

Eh, no we don't and why the feck would a top class manager waste time with that experiment when he could replace him. The longer this goes on, the easier it is to replace him too.

 

[Smoking_Owl]

Rooney didn't play well on Sunday but I'm very happy with the signs.

The fact is he scored and was involved in a few other dangerous situations in the box, in a relatively quiet performance - what will he be like when he actually improves as the season wears on?. It was a damn sight more effective than what he was under van Gaal, even as a #9.

Having him in the team isn't very easy on the eye, but I believe he'll be hugely effective. Mark him down for 15+ PL goals and 8+ assists.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Rooney didn't play well on Sunday but I'm very happy with the signs.

The fact is he scored and was involved in a few other dangerous situations in the box, in a relatively quiet performance - what will he be like when he actually improves as the season wears on?. It was a damn sight more effective than what he was under van Gaal, even as a #9.

Having him in the team isn't very easy on the eye, but I believe he'll be hugely effective. Mark him down for 15+ PL goals and 8+ assists.

To be fair your username is quite accurate. You're definitely smoking something, but are you also an owl too?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I would say 15+ goals and 8+ assists isn't a particularly crazy prediction. Assuming he have a good season as a club and Mourinho keeps picking Rooney (which are big, but not massive ifs) 23 goals or assists in a season would be well within his reach. Even if he's not the player he once was. For the vast majority of his United career he's averaged a goal or assist per game. A rate that he even maintained under Moyes (although, like all our attacking players, his stats fell off a cliff under Van Gaal)

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

If that was Rashford in his position, what would have happened?

Wait there, I'll just pull out my crystal ball.

Seriously though, I would assume Rashford would have tried to run with it. Whether or not he would have got past them is another issue, though.

That said, I could say to you, if that was Ibra or Mata, what would have happened?

 

[Devil may care]

Defoe bagged 15 league goals last season playing for a terrible Sunderland side, nothing masks the fact Rooney's a burden on our play, we could easily replace 15 goals with a far better player who would contribute to our overall play as a team.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

That's not entirely true though, is it? If the ball breaks to the guy furthest forward, who's starting the counter, it's logical that he won't have any bodies in front of him. It doesn't mean it's not a counter attack.

But yeah, on the video itself, I wouldn't read too much into it. I'm sure you could find every single player, even Messi, losing the ball every now and again off a counter attack. Frequency of losing the ball is a different matter though.

Not entirely true. I guess not, but a counter attack consists of players busting a gut to support player with the ball. Clip doesnt look like any of our players are doing that.

 

[Devil may care]

Wait there, I'll just pull out my crystal ball.

Seriously though, I would assume Rashford would have tried to run with it. Whether or not he would have got past them is another issue, though.

That said, I could say to you, if that was Ibra or Mata, what would have happened?

They'd have protected the ball and made sure we kept possession because their control is much better than Rooney's.

 

[Smoking_Owl]

Defoe bagged 15 league goals last season playing for a terrible Sunderland side, nothing masks the fact Rooney's a burden on our play, we could easily replace 15 goals with a far better player who would contribute to our overall play as a team.

15 goals playing at #10 (Rooney) is very different from 15 goals from a #9 (Defoe).

if Rooney gets 15 goals as a #10 and the other attacking players score at good rates - we'll win the league or come damn close to it.

 

[Ish]

Not entirely true. I guess not, but a counter attack consists of players busting a gut to support player with the ball. Clip doesnt look like any of our players are doing that.

Yeah, once anyone is ahead of Ibra and Mata, chances are, they'll never catch up. Or well, chances must be slim of them catching up.

 

[dichinero]

15 goals playing at #10 (Rooney) is very different from 15 goals from a #9 (Defoe).

if Rooney gets 15 goals as a #10 and the other attacking players score at good rates - we'll win the league or come damn close to it.

Defoe bagging 15 for a struggling Sunderland is way more impressive than Rooney scoring 15 at United even as a #10

 

[Smoking_Owl]

Defoe bagging 15 for a struggling Sunderland is way more impressive than Rooney scoring 15 at United even as a #10

I never said it wasn't.

But I would ask, what's the relevance?

 

[Devil may care]

15 goals playing at #10 (Rooney) is very different from 15 goals from a #9 (Defoe).

if Rooney gets 15 goals as a #10 and the other attacking players score at good rates - we'll win the league or come damn close to it.

15 goals playing for a side that battles relegation is harder than playing #10 in this side, and the point was the goals don't mask how much damage he does to our attacking play in most games, especially considering you can score the 15 over 7 or 8 games and just be a roadblock to your own team for the other 30.

 

[Red Dreams]

Ronney had a number of chances to score more than the one goal.

I think he will score regularly. But he needs to get match fit fast. He looked slow.

 

[Santoryo]

Quite right too. He's got three years left of his current deal. There's no way we'd even consider another deal at this stage, so not quite sure why he and/or his camp made noises to that affect.

I thought it was 2 years left, or am I missing something? Or will it be 2 after this season?

 

[Smoking_Owl]

15 goals playing for a side that battles relegation is harder than playing #10 in this side, and the point was the goals don't mask how much damage he does to our attacking play in most games, especially considering you can score the 15 over 7 or 8 games and just be a roadblock to your own team for the other 30.

How is that point illustrated with Defoe?

Look, I'm not a massive Rooney fan either. But in SAF's last two seasons, he scored goals and made many assists whilst playing at #10 but was underwhelming in his general link up play. BUT the scoring numbers of the other attacking players didn't suffer as a result in those two seasonsand we finished on 89 points in those two seasons. I believe similar can happen this season.

Rooney's goal output and overall effectiveness can trump a more traditional #10's incisive and cute link up play.

 

[Santoryo]

Defoe bagging 15 for a struggling Sunderland is way more impressive than Rooney scoring 15 at United even as a #10

And we also shouldn't pretend as if a number 10 is that far off goals. As a number 10, a player gets the chance to be in the dangerous areas almost as much as a number 9 but with freedom to roam a bit more instead of exclusively being the target man.

That's why you generally get 2 things from number 10: either plenty of goals or assists, in some cases both. A number 10 who doesn't deliver on those front regularly(Rooney currently) isn't worth any top team effort.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Personally, I'd give it a couple of months before I get all hysterical over Rooney's performances. There's only one excuse left for his poor performances now and that's the possibility that he's still in the Van Gaal football mentality.

The fact that Mkhitaryan hasn't started probably means Mourinho is trying to give chances to both him and Rooney.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.

 

[Shark]

Personally, I'd give it a couple of months before I get all hysterical over Rooney's performances. There's only one excuse left for his poor performances now and that's the possibility that he's still in the Van Gaal football mentality.

The fact that Mkhitaryan hasn't started probably means Mourinho is trying to give chances to both him and Rooney.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.

Mourinho has said himself that Miki can play behind the striker so that's a good point. Maybe Mourinho wants someone else in the form of Lingard/Rashford down the right wing.

 

[Devil may care]

How is that point illustrated with Defoe?

Look, I'm not a massive Rooney fan either. But in SAF's last two seasons, he scored goals and made many assists whilst playing at #10 but was underwhelming in his general link up play. BUT the scoring numbers of the other attacking players didn't suffer as a result in those two seasonsand we finished on 89 points in those two seasons. I believe similar can happen this season.

Rooney's goal output and overall effectiveness can trump a more traditional #10's incisive and cute link up play.

The point of Defoe was 15 goals is a stat that doesn't mean a player is good enough to be in a United team, I wouldn't want Defoe here or Bent or any number of other forwards that have netted 15 goals in PL teams, as the rest of their quality isn't good enough, just like Rooney isn't good enough.

 

[ThanksBoss26]

I thought it was 2 years left, or am I missing something? Or will it be 2 after this season?

Runs until 2019 I think.

 

[Santoryo]

Meh, Gary Neville and his pal Carragher have already cooked up another excuse for Rooney where he'd need more times(3 years) in one position to truly shine. Now that we've already tried and exhausted all possibilities and excuses(playing him as a striker, number 10, MF and none bear fruits), these guys have now shifted to talking about sticking him into 1 position for a long time(3 years) while under performing in the meantime.

These guys have become quite pathetic and I've started to dislike that lots bit by bit because of their sheer dishonesty(that or it's ignorance) regarding Rooney's matters. I also listened to Rio going on about how some people are being a bit thick for even suggesting Rooney is on trial because according to Rio, Rooney still is such a top player, and predictably Schmeichel followed in with the same adoring Rooney drivels and knocking any papers that dared suggest Rooney could be on trial this year with all the competition in the squad.

These ex players turned pundits are such sad individuals in this matter, they can't even man up and respect their viewership by being honest. It's all drivels and nonsense coming out there mouths when Rooney is involved. No shred of truth. Sad really.

/rant.

 

[Red Stone]

He got in a few good positions, but other than the goal he really should have done better. But perhaps he needs a few matches as has been said. He has been substituted last two matches. A sign he is not fit. We shall see what happens.

But he is not going to get any special favours from Jose.

Interesting mention of Rooney's different roles there by Neville, where he mentioned that Rooney was played as a striker getting maybe 20 touches on the ball per game and is now played deeper getting 100 touches per game.

By far our best run of games since SAF left was that streak against Spurs, Liverpool, Villa and City in the 14/15 season. Rooney played as the sole striker in all four of those games, pushing the back line and not getting involved as much in the build-up. Our team actually looked like a collective unit, shutting out the opposition and creating goals.

Falcao was played as a striker in the next game, against Chelsea, while Rooney was pushed deeper. We lost that game and the two games after that.

It might be a coincidence, but not involving Rooney as much definitely wasn't a hindrance on the team.

 

[Kaos]

Rooney will shine if you give him 3 years playing in the same position, building the team to accommodate him, and put up with his obligatory slow start at the beginning of each season, oh and of course he gets spot kick duty.

But again under those privileges I'd probably shine too.

 

[clarkydaz]

Jose is stifling Rooney's midfield evolution? feckin hell Gaz, that's fighting talk right there.

• silent domination
• he needs to be involved
• he needs pace around him though
• its the system
• he needs a manager to give him 2 or 3 years

its not even outrage anymore, its becoming entertaining

 

[dichinero]

Jose is stifling Rooney's midfield evolution? feckin hell Gaz, that's fighting talk right there.

• silent domination
• he needs to be involved
• he needs pace around him though
• its the system
• he needs a manager to give him 2 or 3 years

its not even outrage anymore, its becoming entertaining

I've said this before. We need a "Wayne Rooney excuse" thread!

 

[Escobar]

Silent domination is by far the best....

 

[Adam-Utd]

Interesting mention of Rooney's different roles there by Neville, where he mentioned that Rooney was played as a striker getting maybe 20 touches on the ball per game and is now played deeper getting 100 touches per game.

By far our best run of games since SAF left was that streak against Spurs, Liverpool, Villa and City in the 14/15 season. Rooney played as the sole striker in all four of those games, pushing the back line and not getting involved as much in the build-up. Our team actually looked like a collective unit, shutting out the opposition and creating goals.

Falcao was played as a striker in the next game, against Chelsea, while Rooney was pushed deeper. We lost that game and the two games after that.

It might be a coincidence, but not involving Rooney as much definitely wasn't a hindrance on the team.

Funny that, keeping Rooney out the way and we do much better Let's keep him out the way completely and see what happens.