[Devil may care]

He's not started any league game since Watford. Even if by accident, when he's been coming on he's helped "assist" goals and in his last 2-3 starts he's been decent and has 3-4 assists and a goal. He's not gotten any sort of constant game time and got deservedly dropped and his replacements haven't been doing great themselves. When the likes of Rashford and Martial start to produce again, Wayne will find himself on the bench again and he's been happy with that role.

I never said started, I said got constant game time, basically no matter how the game was going he got subbed on with 15-20 minutes to go regardless, and he was awful in most of those appearences and was awful in his EL start, the goal doesn't alter how poor he was. Martial needs to be starting every week to build up some form, not replaced by a has-been who has nothing left in the tank and failed as a #9, #10 and CM so now he's getting the LW, it's counter productive to building this new team.

 

[Yagami]

I thought he was brilliant the other day. Seeing him, not just one time, but constantly having a great first touch which allowed us to keep possession, him running at players and just generally working for the team all combined into one performance was a sight for sore eyes.

I really wish his goal had counted as he deserved it off that performance. Honestly, I was surprised he actually managed to finish it from that angle so I'll add that to the list of things I was impressed with.

What I'm fearing now is, with Zlatan out, José will move him back up top with one of Lingard/Rashford/Martial out wide. I think Rooney should stay on the left where he's had his best performance since probably Newcastle away, and try Martial up front.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

@GifLord could you find the clip where Rooney took a great first touch in the second half against Swansea, please. It was around the 60th min.

This?

 

[Striker10]

Rooney fearing for his place could be a good thing. I think he's played well baring the odd bad touch of late. We need to protect him and keep him fresh. It's easy to forget he's been playing since he was 16. That kind of wear and tear needs proper management so credit Jose for benching him and credit Rooney thus far, by accepting it. Hopefully he'll get back in the goals

 

[Litch]

A good Rooney can only be good for Utd. He's another one of those players who is a victim of his own success and high standards. Some players would be happy with 50% of Rooneys game.

 

[Dobbs]

I'll tell you what holds no water, bringing our team selection over the last two seasons as a reason to criticise Mourinho's team selection right now. Moyes and Van Gaal have sweet feck all to do with Mourinho's thinking because - unlike them - he has been picking (and dropping) Rooney on merit.

Wait a second....back on 1st August I asked:

you can't really believe the various positional changes and undroppable status over the last three years have been based purely on merit?

You replied:

Disagree. He was picked on merit IMO. Very occasionally dropped on merit too.

This is the the problem with the Rooney thread. It's like religion. It turns normally decent posters into guys who just make it up as they go along.

You've gone from saying Rooney definitely has been picked on merit over the last few years to now saying he definitely wasn't. Just so you can justify him now being in the team.

I don't know why you guys do it to yourselves.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Lovely goal. Was it offside really?

 

[Treble]

He's finished. No United team with Rooney in it would make the top 4. Has beens can put in decent performances in some games but this doesn't change the big picture. The confirmation will come soon enough, unfortunately.

Rooney cost LVG his job, the latter sold most strikers and left us with Rooney us our main striker. He will cost Mou his job too if Jose relies on him too much.

 

[Yagami]

I thought it was on but it is a tough one to call.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Wait a second....back on 1st August I asked:



You replied:



This is the the problem with the Rooney thread. It's like religion. It turns normally decent posters into guys who just make it up as they go along.

You've gone from saying Rooney definitely has been picked on merit over the last few years to now saying he definitely wasn't. Just so you can justify him now being in the team.

I don't know why you guys do it to yourselves.

Ok. Mea culpa. I did think Moyes and Van Gaal picked him on merit. I still believe that. Yesterday's post was poorly worded. My point is that you can't hold previous team selections against Mourinho - who is demonstrably willing to drop Rooney if he's not performing - so whining about the last three years is irrelevant to what's going on this season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ok. Mea culpa. I did think Moyes and Van Gaal picked him on merit. I still believe that. Yesterday's post was poorly worded. My point is that you can't hold previous team selections against Mourinho - who is demonstrably willing to drop Rooney if he's not performing - so whining about the last three years is irrelevant to what's going on this season.

Agreed. Whatever your thoughts on the past three seasons (and I have often called for him to be dropped), you cannot deny that he i now being picked and dropped on merit.

Rightfully will start versus Arsenal, although I'd personally like to see he & Martial swap positions often in the match.

 

[Abizzz]

He's had an uptick in his form. Credit where it's due. Still not convinced he's turned it around, but at last there's hope now.

A slower less energetic but sharp (in vision and finishing) Rooney can still be of use for some time to come, even if he'll never be a young Rooney again.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Hatred is so dramamticlly over the top, why is it so hard to accept that many fans just think he's a detriment to the team by still being given constant game time, and that these odd moments where he's not shite dig him in deeper, when we should be building the next team around players who are actually good and have the time in front of them to become better and carry the club back to the top, instead of the middling shit we've been while acnhoring the entire side on Rooney's back depsite him being finished. I often feel those that think the peromances like the Swansea one were good don't actually watch football outside of our games. The performance should have been like what we would get from sticking on a squad player back in the day to rest Ruud, it didn't mean Ruud didn't come back in for the next game agaisnt proper opposition just because the squad guy got an assist.

Ruud is a terrible example to use because he was consistently extremely productive but still ended up squeezed out by Saha.

Martial has featured in 12 games this season (started 8) and has scored just twice (one a penalty) and has two assists. Sometimes it's better for their development of young players to take them out of the firing line and let them recharge their batteries. Fergie did this all the time. We should be pleased that Mourinho was able to do and we still won comfortably (would anyone have expected the same result without Martial and Rashford last season?!) for which Rooney deserves at least some credit. But hey, if you see this as an opportunity to keep on slagging off one of our players off then fill your boots. Evidently, nothing I can say will change that.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Lovely goal. Was it offside really?

Replays show he was onside. Looked clearly offside in real time, though. So can't be too annoyed at the linesman.

 

[Dobbs]

Ok. Mea culpa. I did think Moyes and Van Gaal picked him on merit. I still believe that. Yesterday's post was poorly worded. My point is that you can't hold previous team selections against Mourinho - who is demonstrably willing to drop Rooney if he's not performing - so whining about the last three years is irrelevant to what's going on this season.

It wasn't poorly worded, it's just two wholly contradictory opinions. Begs the question why? The answer is that it's the Rooney thread.

I don't mean to sound critical, I've probably done the same myself but the Rooney thread is rife for contradiction, shifting of goal posts and false equivalences. It's why the debate rumbles on so much.

 

[NinjaZombie]

What do you know.... dropping him and making him worry for his place in the team has him playing within himself and putting in a half decent performance.

Decent performance, but he still made a few mistakes in the first 20 minutes, losing the ball on a few occasions, one of which was a crossfield pass across the back four which got intercepted.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It wasn't poorly worded, it's just two wholly contradictory opinions. Begs the question why? The answer is that it's the Rooney thread.

I don't mean to sound critical, I've probably done the same myself but the Rooney thread is rife for contradiction, shifting of goal posts and false equivalences. It's why the debate rumbles on so much.

The answer is in my last post. Mourinho is demonstrably more willing to drop Rooney than the previous two managers. Rooney's place in the team is a lot less certain this season. That was the (simple) point I was making. The poor wording was my implication that the previous two didn't pick him on merit. They did. They just had less alternative options.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Yep. Looks on.



Good game, lad.

 

[Devil may care]

Ruud is a terrible example to use because he was consistently extremely productive but still ended up squeezed out by Saha.

Martial has featured in 12 games this season (started 8) and has scored just twice (one a penalty) and has two assists. Sometimes it's better for their development of young players to take them out of the firing line and let them recharge their batteries. Fergie did this all the time. We should be pleased that Mourinho was able to do and we still won comfortably (would anyone have expected the same result without Martial and Rashford last season?!) for which Rooney deserves at least some credit. But hey, if you see this as an opportunity to keep on slagging off one of our players off then fill your boots. Evidently, nothing I can say will change that.

Ruud wasn't squeezed out by Saha, he was sold because of his attitude problems, but hey I'll use Rooney himself, back when he was good if we'd rested him for Fraizer Campbell against a shitty side and he got an assist it wouldn't mean Rooney wouldn't be straight back in in our next game when we play a proper team, this should be the same principle.

It's not about an opporuntiy man, you keep wanting to make this personal, I've avoided that despite knowing you are a huge Rooney fanboy, I remember our conversation before where you said you liked the blue collar grafters over flair players. My point is that once Rooney gets in, no matter how he plays, it's hard to get him back out, I thought we'd finally started the process of moving past him only for him to suddenly get an undeserved start and cover over the cracks with a couple of assists against the worst team in the PL with everyone ignoring the 5 times he gave the ball away cheaply, it's like the Brugge hat-trick all over again. Going beyond the right here and now you are advocating keeping a 300k a week player who is shit 9 times out of 10, for the odd goal or assist he might get, instead of using that money and squad place on a player in their prime who can help us go from being top 4 cling-ons to title contenders, and yet you are trying to paint me as biased.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

He's so much better when he finds his touch - which he seems to be doing now. Only problem is that he takes longer and longer to get into form as he gets older.

I think it suits him being out wide and then drifting inside, gives him a little less pressure and a bit more room.

 

[bosnian_red]

Kinda agree with Pogue in that he was picked on merit before. Under Moyes he actually had a brilliant season and was our best player so ignore that. Under LVG in our first season he was our only reliable attacker and we were annoyed that LvG was shifting him around and refused to drop RvP and Falcao. 2nd season he obviously struggled, but would still have an impact and we had no replacements really so thats why he played. Like who was going to start ahead of him? Young? Memphis? Rashford broke into the team in february, and by then, martial was the winger, Mata was getting pretty consistent games and lingard was the only other player. So the option would have been to include rooney in the rotation with those 2, but being captain and still having that goal impact, he stayed in. Especially for his experience considering all the others were youngsters. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[Dobbs]

Kinda agree with Pogue in that he was picked on merit before. Under Moyes he actually had a brilliant season and was our best player so ignore that. Under LVG in our first season he was our only reliable attacker and we were annoyed that LvG was shifting him around and refused to drop RvP and Falcao. 2nd season he obviously struggled, but would still have an impact and we had no replacements really so thats why he played. Like who was going to start ahead of him? Young? Memphis? Rashford broke into the team in february, and by then, martial was the winger, Mata was getting pretty consistent games and lingard was the only other player. So the option would have been to include rooney in the rotation with those 2, but being captain and still having that goal impact, he stayed in. Especially for his experience considering all the others were youngsters. Nothing wrong with it.

Him being picked on merit or not wasn't the point of that exchange. The important bit is Pogue said he was and then said he wasn't. A contradiction. It's important because its a good example of what goes on in the Rooney thread. Some posters will come up with any sort of stance if it backs the idea of Rooney being in the team.

I just find it funny more than anything. I can't explain this incredible allegiance Rooney has but it definitely exists.

Look at @Walters_19_MuFc and @wr8_utd in this thread and then look at them in the Ibra thread. It's like two different posters.

 

[wr8_utd]

Him being picked on merit or not wasn't the point of that exchange. The important bit is Pogue said he was and then said he wasn't. A contradiction. It's important because its a good example of what goes on in the Rooney thread. Some posters will come up with any sort of stance if it backs the idea of Rooney being in the team.

I just find it funny more than anything. I can't explain this incredible allegiance Rooney has but it definitely exists.

Look at @Walters_19_MuFc and @wr8_utd in this thread and then look at them in the Ibra thread. It's like two different posters.

Ibra scored 2 and I've not entered his thread. I can ignore Ibra's rubbish performances when he's contributing but over the last 6-9 games he was not contributing at all and was costing us points with his missing of sitters in every game. I wanted Rashford/Martial to replace him.

 

[Amar__]

Under Moyes he actually had a brilliant season

Do you seriously think that was brilliant season? Just because he was more agressive than our other players and ran more doesn't mean he was brilliant. He deserves respect for being better than others in that season, altough he always gets better threatment than other players anyway, but to call that brilliant season is an insult to many better players than him who regulary have better season than that and don't get that much praise.

I mean, Martial's last season was miles better than that and it was far from brilliant season.

 

[Schmiznurf]

I thought he did surprisingly well against Swansea and he was involved in all 3 of our goals somehow, the fact that he would have scored as well had it been ruled onside is great as well.

 

[Marcelinho87]

This?

My issue there shows why we as a team are so static! He lays the ball off to Young and then he just stands where he was waiting for it back! Run in behind and keep moving ffs.

Edit: This is the whole team who does it, not just Rooney.

 

[bosnian_red]

Do you seriously think that was brilliant season? Just because he was more agressive than our other players and ran more doesn't mean he was brilliant. He deserves respect for being better than others in that season, altough he always gets better threatment than other players anyway, but to call that brilliant season is an insult to many better players than him who regulary have better season than that and don't get that much praise.

I mean, Martial's last season was miles better than that and it was far from brilliant season.

Maybe "brilliant" is a stretch but it was definitely an excellent season by most players' standards. Didn't he have around 20 goals and 20 assists in that season for us? It's just a very good season and was basically one of the very few outfield players who played well.

 

[Badunk]

He's being praised for a great first touch. He plays football for Manchester United. A great first touch should come as standard. You're kicking a ball around every day for a living ffs.

 

[Dobbs]

Ibra scored 2 and I've not entered his thread. I can ignore Ibra's rubbish performances when he's contributing but over the last 6-9 games he was not contributing at all and was costing us points with his missing of sitters in every game. I wanted Rashford/Martial to replace him.

I know you've not entered his thread. That's because every single post of yours in his thread is a negative one. Not long ago you wanted him dropped for good. So when he scores two you go missing.

Contrast that with your posts in this thread.

If Rooney had Ibra's season you'd be singing his praises.

 

[Loublaze]

This?

Nice touch to take two players out of the game then he just completely stops play by passing it to the closest player on the right and stops running himself. Pogba down the left seemed a better option, or he could've ran further with the ball but he allowed the two players he just took out time to catch up and reorganize. Perfect example of how less of a threat he has become in his decline, despite the original good first touch

 

[shamans]

Nice touch to take two players out of the game then he just completely stops play by passing it to the closest player on the right and stops running himself. Pogba down the left seemed a better option, or he could've ran further with the ball but he allowed the two players he just took out time to catch up and reorganize. Perfect example of how less of a threat he has become in his decline, despite the original good first touch

You know we all know he's not the same Rooney but posts like this are just very confusing to me. You would not see such criticism of a successful first touch regarding any other player. If you're going to over analyze little things like that no player is a "threat" anymore. Reminds me of that tweet in which he passed to Zlatan instead of Pogba and people were complaining.

I understand his decline but no need to over exaggerate it.

 

[shamans]

He's being praised for a great first touch. He plays football for Manchester United. A great first touch should come as standard. You're kicking a ball around every day for a living ffs.

We also expect our players to bear their men so when Rashford beats someone we shouldn't be happy? When Mata has a high pass completion we should be silent? Also a "great first touch" is not "standard". I mean nowadays Ronneys is touch is quite inconsistent but to say we shouldn't even praise him for a good first touch?

 

[Ole90+3]

You know we all know he's not the same Rooney but posts like this are just very confusing to me. You would not see such criticism of a successful first touch regarding any other player. If you're going to over analyze little things like that no player is a "threat" anymore. Reminds me of that tweet in which he passed to Zlatan instead of Pogba and people were complaining.

I understand his decline but no need to over exaggerate it.

It isn't an over exaggeration, and I would expect a similar criticism aimed at any of our players if a GIF of the same incident was posted in another player performance thread.

That piece of play sums up our overall lack of ambition in the 2nd half. We allowed Swansea the chance to get back into the game by keeping the goal difference surmountable. We could have easily totally killed this game off and racked up our goal tally, which may come to be a key factor in the final standings this season.

He takes the ball down beautifully, and instantly has the defence on the back foot with their whole midfield taken out of the play. The CBs, not realising that Rooney has now become one of the most toothless player in the league, are backing off. This was the perfect opportunity to attack the space the defenders are leaving him, looking to play the through ball to Ibra who would have undoubtedly made the run in behind the defence, or out wide to a more than likely wide open Pogba/Young who would be in a more advanced position.

I honestly can't think of one City, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool attacker playing the same ball Rooney did to Young. You'd think that Mourinho told the players at half time there was a prize for highest pass completion rate.

 

[Loublaze]

If you're going to over analyze little things like that no player is a "threat" anymore. Reminds me of that tweet in which he passed to Zlatan instead of Pogba and people were complaining.

I understand his decline but no need to over exaggerate it.

Its not an exaggeration its an honest and realistic summation. Praising Rooney for a basic good first touch that led to nothing is pointless and really its grasping at straws in his defense. Carrick did this routinely throughout the game and he followed it up with key passes that led to attack. Rooney's lazy ball was the type you play in the 85th min when you're controlling the game, not in the 60th when you have a chance to really put the game to bed.

I honestly can't think of one City, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool attacker playing the same ball Rooney did to Young

Here here! You took the words right out of my mouth

 

[donkeyfish]

He's being praised for a great first touch. He plays football for Manchester United. A great first touch should come as standard. You're kicking a ball around every day for a living ffs.

It is relative. Of course every footballer, in absolute terms, has a great first touch. Just as everyone are fast and athletic and not fat. When you discuss top footballers, it has to be measured relative to other top footballers. Otherwise there would be nothing but praise.

It was one of the best touches in the game.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

This?

Ye that's it.

Thanks @Mrs Smoker

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

g. I can't explain this incredible allegiance Rooney has but it definitely exists.

Look at @Walters_19_MuFc and @wr8_utd in this thread and then look at them in the Ibra thread. It's like two different posters.

What about them?

 

[Mrs Smoker]

The guy is here for 12 years now. What's unexplainable?

 

[Dobbs]

What about them?

Much, much harsher on Ibra. You've criticised every aspect of his play. His goalscoring, his hold up play, you've complained he isn't criticised enough.

Contrast that to your Rooney posts, which are mostly defending the player. Despite him being worse in all aspects of the game.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the two biggest Rooney supporters are both highly critical of Ibra.

 

[dichinero]

Much, much harsher on Ibra. You've criticised every aspect of his play. His goalscoring, his hold up play, you've complained he isn't criticised enough.

Contrast that to your Rooney posts, which are mostly defending the player. Despite him being worse in all aspects of the game.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the two biggest Rooney supporters are both highly critical of Ibra.

Are you surprised?