[LouisDanGaal]

The one common theme in our terrible attacking play the last however many years has been Rooney. It's no coincidence to me. Rooney can't make other players look bad individually but forcing him in the center of the pitch somewhere certainly can and has forced our team to play worse overall. Like many others have said, Rooney playing means: getting less out of Pogba, getting less out of Ibra, not having an extra body in center mid, and playing an attacking mid who offers absolutely no creativity or positivity to the team. And no, one or two moments in 5 games isn't enough to make that statement not true.

He is bad, and playing bad, that's it.

He isn't responsible for anyone else's performances, I don't know why the caf needs for there to be one simple single scapegoat but it always has. Pogba has been crap and it has absolutely nothing to do with rooney, he takes responsibility for his own performance. Zlatan has scored a very good amount of goals but his link up play and touch has been crap, that's his fault not Rooneys.

United have been crap so lets point to Rooney.

Get a grip.

He needs to be dropped based on today but everyone isn't suddenly going to hit form, they will still be crap.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Performances are always relative. If the whole team stinks, it is impossible that a single player will shine.

You say Rooney is the heart and captain of the team, but then you go on and imply it doesn't matter if he's shit because everyone else is. Would've thought out of all the players it's most important for the heart and captain of the team to be the one to set an example and play well when everyone else isn't?

 

[C3Pique]

Didn't watch today's game but at this point surely there's more benefit in giving younger players a chance to bond into a team than letting Rooney run out what's left of his legs in order to break the goals record. I don't mind losing if there is a plan to let the team develop chemistry. Right now we're stagnating and he's a big reason why.

 

[gza the genius]

He is bad, and playing bad, that's it.

He isn't responsible for anyone else's performances, I don't know why the caf needs for there to be one simple single scapegoat but it always has. Pogba has been crap and it has absolutely nothing to do with rooney, he takes responsibility for his own performance. Zlatan has scored a very good amount of goals but his link up play and touch has been crap, that's his fault not Rooneys.

United have been crap so lets point to Rooney.

Get a grip.

He needs to be dropped based on today but everyone isn't suddenly going to hit form, they will still be crap.

I specifically said Rooney can't make others look bad individually and I also know Rooney isn't the only problem. He is however the biggest problem. Playing Pogba out of position and asking him to do things he doesn't excel at simply to accommodate Rooney certainly does affect his performances. Ibra's touch has looked bad but he also is getting absolutely no service. All of these things affect how the team as a whole plays and a lot of them go back to Rooney.

 

[PlayerOne]

He was poor. Pogba was worse. Everyone else was poor too, even De Gea.

Why can't you just stop at Rooney was crap? No Pogba was not worst.

It's always the same, Rooney was shit, but so were others!!! That doesn't make it ok, he's meant to the leader of that team

That performance was a disgrace, even by his pub level standards.

 

[bosnian_red]

He was poor. Pogba was worse. Everyone else was poor too, even De Gea.

Nobody was a patch on how bad Rooney was today. Rashford in the first half ran him close but then he had a very good second half and made up for it. Rooney was brutal. Pogba tried doing some things but was a bit quiet overall. Rooney isn't the only problem in the side (the other being our midfield partnership doesn't work, we need Carrick in there next to Pogba and Mkhitaryan there too), but he is definitely the biggest one as having him there gets in the way of Pogba, Ibra and the wide players, and also means others like Mkhitaryan or Mata will be on the bench or stuck out wide when it's too crowded to roam inwards because Rooney is there.

Not only that though, but every time he gets the ball passed in to him, he either miss controls it, or has to take a touch way back into open space so he doesn't lose it. Or his passes are bobbled and poorly weighted, or the positions he picks up are way in open space so he doesn't have pressure around him (and also in places where it is of absolutely no benefit to the team). He's just such an utterly pointless player these days.

I used to love him, he was one of my favourite players growing up, and I defended him a lot these past few years, but let's face it. He is a shit player and not even premier league standard these days. And that's not an exaggeration. If he went to Hull City or Burnley, I think that their fans would complain about him and say he should be dropped. He is just that bad. He lacks the technique or basic fitness to be a premier league player and is there purely because of his status and past achievements.

Actually come to think about it, the worst and most costly thing that Moyes did at United was give Rooney that contract. Really fecked us over.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

I specifically said Rooney can't make others look bad individually and I also know Rooney isn't the only problem. He is however the biggest problem. Playing Pogba out of position and asking him to do things he doesn't excel at simply to accommodate Rooney certainly does affect his performances. Ibra's touch has looked bad but he also is getting absolutely no service. All of these things affect how the team as a whole plays and a lot of them go back to Rooney.

Pogba could not have been more in his most natural position today. He was in no way accommodating Rooney, didn't you notice from his absolute lack of interest in doing the defensive side of the midfield job. Rooney is one of 6 players in the team who potentiall give service, the two wide men, him, pogba, and the full backs, it is everyones fault.

None of it goes back to Rooney. He was poor, that's it.

The rest of the team were poor and that's their fault.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Pogba could not have been more in his most natural position today. He was in no way accommodating Rooney, didn't you notice from his absolute lack of interest in doing the defensive side of the midfield job. Rooney is one of 6 players in the team who potentiall give service, the two wide men, him, pogba, and the full backs, it is everyones fault.

None of it goes back to Rooney. He was poor, that's it.

The rest of the team were poor and that's their fault.

We didn't play 433 today. Rooney was just wondering about trying to get the ball as usual.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

We didn't play 433 today. Rooney was just wondering about trying to get the ball as usual.

We did in the first half then in the second half switched.

 

[gza the genius]

Pogba could not have been more in his most natural position today. He was in no way accommodating Rooney, didn't you notice from his absolute lack of interest in doing the defensive side of the midfield job. Rooney is one of 6 players in the team who potentiall give service, the two wide men, him, pogba, and the full backs, it is everyones fault.

None of it goes back to Rooney. He was poor, that's it.

The rest of the team were poor and that's their fault.

So we're playing a man short in midfield because Rooney has to play then meanwhile Rooney breaks down countless attacks by not being able to control the ball or retain possession. You can't tell me taking Rooney off and throwing in another midfielder willing to sit deep wouldn't have given us more balance in the team.

 

[togg]

Right about what? Ferguson wanting to sell him has never been proved. Scholes has been full of praise all these years. Anyway, I didn't see the game to be honest. Seems like he was poor.

Well...no it wasn't proven that Ferguson wanted to sell him, but taking into consideration the way Ferguson did let players go when his authority was challenged, I think it's pretty safe to say that if Ferguson had carried on the next season, Wayne wouldn't have been there. Regarding Scholes...this is what he said a while back

"Wayne’s peak may have been a lot younger than what we’d expect of footballers traditionally. Age 28 or 29 has been the normal ‘peak’. With Wayne, it could have been when he scored 27 league goals in 2011/2012 when he was 26.

"Wayne might be a player who’d retire come 31 or 32, given the amount of football he’s played."

Not definitely saying he's right..but just quoting.

Oh by the way...yes he was pretty shite today to be honest.

 

[Hot Potato]

He was poor. Pogba was worse. Everyone else was poor too, even De Gea.

Pogba's best attacking threat was hitting the crossbar, Rooney's was between shooting at the corner flag or one of his pathetic cross to no one in particular. Pogba wasn't worse than Rooney, no one was worse than Rooney today.

I like you though, your posts are comedy gold, hilarious stuff. Cheers

 

[Traub]

Rooney in isolation is not the worst player in our starting XI. I'm happy to accept that and agree with it.

The problem is that by including Rooney, we are reducing the overall quality of the first XI. We're currently in a state of the sum of the parts is more than the whole. IMO, dropping Rooney for a real extra midfielder will result in the whole being greater than the sum of parts, and greater than the whole when Rooney is playing.

Fundamentally something has to change. Our team is not working with the way it is currently set up. There are several ways we could change it. I think the starting point is let's try by dropping Rooney.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

So we're playing a man short in midfield because Rooney has to play then meanwhile Rooney breaks down countless attacks by not being able to control the ball or retain possession. You can't tell me taking Rooney off and throwing in another midfielder willing to sit deep wouldn't have given us more balance in the team.

No because they all are playing badly. You lot were crying out for the kind of midfield we played against feyenoord, we did it and were still crap.

Rooney is responsible for his own performances, which haven't been good enough so he will probably be dropped next game.

We aren't going to suddenly look better because the team in general is playing crap, its not a system issue, the individuals are playing crap.

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think dropping him is going to be some huge season changing moment. Our issues run a lot lot deeper.

 

[GifLord]

Was this already posted?

Rooney HL vs Watford

 

[gza the genius]

No because they all are playing badly. You lot were crying out for the kind of midfield we played against feyenoord, we did it and were still crap.

Rooney is responsible for his own performances, which haven't been good enough so he will probably be dropped next game.

We aren't going to suddenly look better because the team in general is playing crap, its not a system issue, the individuals are playing crap.

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think dropping him is going to be some huge season changing moment. Our issues run a lot lot deeper.

Dropping Rooney for one game we changed 7 other players from the previous game is not exactly proof that playing three genuine midfielders would help us out. It absolutely is a system issue, we essentially have Fellaini being asked to do all the defensive work. If the system starts to work the players will begin to improve as well. It won't be an immediate fix, it will take time. But dropping Rooney is definitely the way forward, he simply isn't good enough anymore and this is based off at least two years of evidence.

 

[izzydiggler]

There's almost no point moaning about him any more - everyone can see how poor he is nowadays but he still plays regardless and I assume he will continue to do so.

This has been going on for ages now though and he's a shadow of the great player he was - the whole "nothing to prove" and his reaction to when people criticise his performances says to me that he's just far too comfortable after a life of being the first person picked to play...sure he'll run around a bit like a dog fetching a tennis ball but his ability to positively contribute as a starter has surely gone.

 

[Rado_N]

Performances are always relative. If the whole team stinks, it is impossible that a single player will shine.

And yet Rooney managed to shine bright as the worst player on the pitch by far.

 

[criticalanalysis]

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think dropping him is going to be some huge season changing moment. Our issues run a lot lot deeper.

You're right there but then it's basically like this:

We've had 3 managers since Fergie, numerous squad changes and there's been only a handful of players that's stayed during that time.

De Gea - brilliant for us
Smalling - had a good but mixed last season for us, part of the reason why we were solid
Jones - n/a
Carrick - plays when he plays and does ok, hasn't had a consistent run of games in the past 18 months to attribute any problem to him
Young - not played enough to evaluate
Rooney - played pretty much every single game under all 3 managers and is incredibly inconsistent and lacks quality

Not gonna include other players in here because none of them has been in the squad/on the pitch long enough to attribute the mess we're in.

Everything Utd have done to rectify on (managerial/squad/tactical changes) and off the pitch (bringing in money/players) performances have been made except one.

There are a myriad of issues but Rooney being shoehorned in the team is the biggest and most obvious one.

 

[bosnian_red]

Starting to think he won't ever get the all time top scorer record. 3 goals behind Sir Bobby, but he really doesn't look like he is capable of getting on the end of a chance, let alone scoring it. Plays all the time but probably shouldn't have another chance in the team.

 

[NinjaZombie]

No because they all are playing badly. You lot were crying out for the kind of midfield we played against feyenoord, we did it and were still crap.

Rooney is responsible for his own performances, which haven't been good enough so he will probably be dropped next game.

We aren't going to suddenly look better because the team in general is playing crap, its not a system issue, the individuals are playing crap.

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think dropping him is going to be some huge season changing moment. Our issues run a lot lot deeper.

Nobody is saying we'll turn into Barcelona when Rooney gets dropped. But couldn't we give it a try for a few weeks and see from there? Why does Rooney get to start games despite stinking the place up every week?

I don't know why the Feyenoord game is supposed to be proof that Rooney is not part of the problem. We played out second string fullbacks, didn't start Zlatan and a few of the players like Schneiderlin were starting for the first time in the season.

 

[tom porter]

These stats are worse than I imagined. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/full-horror-wayne-rooneys-performance-8863925

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Needs a new song

Please drop Rooney
Wazza Rooney
I just don't think you understand
He's on 300 grand
He wants to hang your nan
Please drop wazza Rooney

 

[Amadaeus]

The foundation being all of our forwards are playing shite, that's the reason, not some secret clause, which is genuinely the most deranged thing I have seen one here. Rooney has been bad, Martial has been bad, Mata has been bad, Pogba in behind has been bad, mkhi has been bad, lingard has been bad. Not hard to see why he is kept in the team when his replacements are out of form and he has been making contributions. Today he was beyond the pale, if he stays in the team next week we could surmise maybe he is showing something in training or that the others aren't showing desire. There are about 70 excuses you could make before we got to the clause.

I stated that clause as sarcasm, but then insisted that if he continues to be selected then there is some form of agreement made by the club and Rooney to keep playing him albeit 'it does not have to be contractual.' If you find that strange, then you must be the biggest Rooney fanboy on here and you need to be more rationale with your apparent Rooney's favoritism.

All our forward are not playing shite. Rooney is upsetting the balance in the front line the same way Fellaini is upsetting the balance in the midfield. The one thing consistent in our lineup the past few season has been Rooney poor performance and when you take that element out, there is a great possibility that we would start performing better with the consistent use of a number 10 that actually plays like one.

 

[Kag]

Was this already posted?

Rooney HL vs Watford

Embarrassing.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Was this already posted?

Rooney HL vs Watford

I can't even laugh at this sort of thing anymore. It's embarrassing watching him struggle to play football.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Dropping Rooney for one game we changed 7 other players from the previous game is not exactly proof that playing three genuine midfielders would help us out. It absolutely is a system issue, we essentially have Fellaini being asked to do all the defensive work. If the system starts to work the players will begin to improve as well. It won't be an immediate fix, it will take time. But dropping Rooney is definitely the way forward, he simply isn't good enough anymore and this is based off at least two years of evidence.

It is not a system issue, today everyone was in their preferred posin except Rooney. Nobody had tailored their role to fit in around him. He was poor but so were they.

 

[wr8_utd]

Rooney was garbage today but lets not try blame others being rubbish on Rooney. Rooney was probably the worst of the lot but the others were awful and it had nothing to do with Rooney.

 

[Sylar]

Was this already posted?

Rooney HL vs Watford

How did he manage to finish 90 minutes. Mandess

 

[Kraftwerker]

Was this already posted?

Rooney HL vs Watford

It's even worse than I remember it.

Surely surely gets dropped.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

You're right there but then it's basically like this:

We've had 3 managers since Fergie, numerous squad changes and there's been only a handful of players that's stayed during that time.

De Gea - brilliant for us
Smalling - had a good but mixed last season for us, part of the reason why we were solid
Jones - n/a
Carrick - plays when he plays and does ok, hasn't had a consistent run of games in the past 18 months to attribute any problem to him
Young - not played enough to evaluate
Rooney - played pretty much every single game under all 3 managers and is incredibly inconsistent and lacks quality

Not gonna include other players in here because none of them has been in the squad/on the pitch long enough to attribute the mess we're in.

Everything Utd have done to rectify on (managerial/squad/tactical changes) and off the pitch (bringing in money/players) performances have been made except one.

There are a myriad of issues but Rooney being shoehorned in the team is the biggest and most obvious one.

It is more of an issue to the fans than it is to the success of this team.

 

[Rado_N]

That pass out wide from Shaw that he couldn't even keep in play was absolutely pathetic.

 

[Amadaeus]

Was this already posted?

Rooney HL vs Watford

I feel the criticism is starting to get to him mentally. Even though he has been poor for awhile, you can't help but feel there is something not right with him when he can not do some of the basic thing.

 

[C3Pique]

Was this already posted?

Rooney HL vs Watford

Jesus Christ. Glad I missed the game or I'd fear for my TV's safety.

"My pass to the right is amazing under no pressure"

Surely. Surely Jose can see how bad he is. If he thinks that's acceptable for his highest paid player and captain he needs his head examining.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Nobody is saying we'll turn into Barcelona when Rooney gets dropped. But couldn't we give it a try for a few weeks and see from there? Why does Rooney get to start games despite stinking the place up every week?

I don't know why the Feyenoord game is supposed to be proof that Rooney is not part of the problem. We played out second string fullbacks, didn't start Zlatan and a few of the players like Schneiderlin were starting for the first time in the season.

I'm saying drop him, so yeah I'm with you. I'm not making excuses to keep him i'm saying lets stop scapegoating him, completely different thing.

This thread is full of people who want the situation to be incredibly simple. Lets blame Rooney, like previously we have pointed the finger at Lvg or moyes or young or cleverly or whoever is in vogue at the time. He is crap and he deserves criticism for that. But lets not pretend by dropping him we are going to suddenly have a system that works and our players are going to stop stinking up the place as well.

Rooney should be dropped, but he isn't alone out there and when he does actually get dropped (next week) the cafs going to have to find a new whipping boy to oversimplify things with. Good luck Pogba.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Was this already posted?

Rooney HL vs Watford

Just quoting so people see this more.

 

[criticalanalysis]

It is more of an issue to the fans than it is to the success of this team.

What does that even mean?

You say the issue is deeper. We've done everything to address those issues except drop Rooney.

What are the issues and how do they weigh when you factor in the context that I've tried to provide?

 

[Born2Lose]

Like vs Feyenoord?

I'd rather lose 0-1 to Feyenoord due to an offisde goal than get tonked 3-1 by Watford.

Oh and using your logic, it would have been a 3-0 tonking because let's be honest Rashford's goal had nothing to do with Rooney. When Rashford was knocking it in, Rooney was busy trying to win a penalty (again).

 

[LouisDanGaal]

I stated that clause as sarcasm, but then insisted that if he continues to be selected then there is some form of agreement made by the club and Rooney to keep playing him albeit 'it does not have to be contractual.' If you find that strange, then you must be the biggest Rooney fanboy on here and you need to be more rationale with your apparent Rooney's favoritism.

All our forward are not playing shite. Rooney is upsetting the balance in the front line the same way Fellaini is upsetting the balance in the midfield. The one thing consistent in our lineup the past few season has been Rooney poor performance and when you take that element out, there is a great possibility that we would start performing better with the consistent use of a number 10 that actually plays like one.

All I have talked about for the last hour is dropping him? Stop just giving me positions at random.

I know what you said and I pointed out you couldn't have the two positions. It would be like me saying 'oh yeah, the loch ness monster really exists' sarcastically and then saying i'll only believe it if I hear of some shady local sightings. If rooney carries on playing it isn't because he has a contractual clause, that is all I can tell you for certain.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Rooney was garbage today but lets not try blame others being rubbish on Rooney. Rooney was probably the worst of the lot but the others were awful and it had nothing to do with Rooney.

He is not responsible for their poor performances, but given how long he has been poor for he is the one people want out first, and that's fair. Credit for admitting how bad he was by the way,